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Author Topic: A SW 6th Floor TSBD Gunman Escape Theory  (Read 3143 times)

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: A SW 6th Floor TSBD Gunman Escape Theory
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2018, 03:19:05 AM »
  No need for the BS flag waving though. One way to see it. Any evidence?
The flag was directed [in spirit] at Rather.
Evidence lies happened just as described.

Offline Anthony Clayden

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Re: A SW 6th Floor TSBD Gunman Escape Theory
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2018, 03:22:56 AM »
Four women together on the 4th floor together, Adams and Styles were followed by Garner but Dorman would have seen A&S and then Garner. If you wanted to know what was happening then ask Dorman, but they didn't.

As for the lift, if the shooter used it before JED, then they have to evade JED. So JED and BRW don't see each other and JED doesn't see or hear the shooter use the lift.

« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 10:41:23 PM by Anthony Clayden »

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: A SW 6th Floor TSBD Gunman Escape Theory
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2018, 04:19:11 AM »
I agree with Tony that its not likely that Shelley and Lovelady could have been standing by the rear elevators at 60 sec posts shots, because both of them are seen outside TSBD in the Couch film moving away from the TSBD at approx.  25 sec post shots when Baker is seen running towards the entrance. It would have been about 35 sec post shots then, when Baker and Truly would have been together on the front steps, and that's when Lovelady would have seen them. Lovelady and Shelly then continued walking even further  away from TSBD:

Mr. BALL - First of all, let's get you to tell us whom you left the steps with.
Mr. LOVELADY - Mr. Shelley.
Mr. BALL - Shelley and you went down how far?
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes---
Mr. BALL - You went down the dead end on Elm?
Mr. BALL - And down to the first tracks?

75 yds is 225 ft, so at 35 sec post shots after having seen Baker and Truly at the front entrance, Billy Lovelady travels to some point 225 ft away from the west side entrance of TSBD and then must travel back again to have entered TSBD again. So 550 ft at 5 ft/sec pace would require an additional 100 secs added which therefore puts it about 2 min post shots as the earliest that Lovelady and Shelly could have returned into TSBD by the west side loading dock ramp.

The Jack Dougherty dilemma: When did Jack take the West elevator down or if he did not, who did?

If its JD, using the west elevator by himself, there are only 2 options:

1.West elevator taken down about 5 sec post shots, reached 1st floor approx 30 sec post shots, and then elevator returns itself to stop at 5th floor by 70 sec posts shots. JD walked across 1st floor at least about 85 ft away from west elevator to talk with Eddie
Piper standing near a window at the front of the 1st floor TSBD.

2. West elevator taken down about 5 seconds after Truly/Baker left elevator shaft to start up the immediate rear staircase approx 75 sec post shots. The West elevator started therefore from 5th floor at 75 sec post shots, went past the 2nd floor landing at approx 90 sec post shots while Baker is in the 2nd floor lunchroom, and Truly looking from outer door. Baker//Truly are unaware elevator went past being distracted with Oswald.

If a 6th floor shooter from SW window used the West elevator begining 10 sec post shots, and the elevator travels 1 floor/5 sec speed, the West elevator would reach 1st foor by 35 sec post shots. It then would have returned itself, upon gates being closed by the shooter,  to the 6th floor by 70 sec post shots, where it would be seen by Truly looking up the shaft, and guestimating it to be on 5th or 6th floor. The West elevator could have remained on 6th floor when Truly.Baker reach 5th floor, or a 2nd shooter on 6th floor could have taken it down beginning 75 sec post shots, passing by 2nd floor landing 90 sec posts shots, as in the JD scenario option.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 04:25:18 AM by Zeon Mason »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: A SW 6th Floor TSBD Gunman Escape Theory
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2018, 03:12:39 PM »
The west elevator could be "called" by use of a button but required the gates to be closed. The east elevator could only be operated manually by someone in the lift and could not be "called". It too would not move unless the gates were closed.

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: A SW 6th Floor TSBD Gunman Escape Theory
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2018, 10:18:13 PM »
Mr. BALL. Which elevator did you take?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I took the east elevator down.
Mr. BALL. Is that the one that is worked with a hand--
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. That is the one with the one gate, and works with the hand pedal.
Mr. BALL. How does the other one work?
Mr. WILLIAMS. The other one worked by push button. You have two gates to pull. That is the one you can pull two gates on and it will come back up by itself. The east side elevator won't come up unless someone is operating.

Maybe I have misinterpreted, but it sounds like Bonnie Ray Williams says the West elevator "will come back up by itself" when the gates are closed. IDK if the button pushed means a button on the elevator itself has to be continually pushed or if it means a button on each floor that's on the elevator shaft can be pushed and the elevator will then "move itself" to that floor.

If BRW means that someone on another floor can call the West elevator, if the gates are closed,  by pushing a button on the side of the elevator shaft on that floor,  then my theory is still plausible given that Jack Dougherty or someone else could have called the West elevator back up to the 5th floor by pushing a button on that floor, after a 6th floor shooter had taken it down at 10 sec post shots, reaching 1st floor aprox as fast as 35 sec post shots, if the West elevator can travel as fast a 1 floor/5 secs.



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