JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Gerry Down on September 10, 2021, 02:03:25 AM
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3 minutes in on the below video. Apparently the DPD noticed men with rifles on the grassy knoll on the day before the assassination. Is there an official DPD or FBI report confirming that this occurred and the names of the officers who saw this?
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3 minutes in on the below video. Apparently the DPD noticed men with rifles on the grassy knoll on the day before the assassination. Is there an official DPD or FBI report confirming that this occurred and the names of the officers who saw this?
I particularly like the part where experts examined film footage and determined without any doubt that the bullet that blew John's brain out,was fired from in FRONT ......
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Anyone who has ever been to Dealey Plaza knows that the very last place that any assassin would have fired a shot from would be the grassy knoll. It falsely appears to afford seclusion when viewed from Elm St. From that perspective, the folks at the scene had cause to believe an assassin might have fired a shot from that location because it offered apparent seclusion and proximity to location of the assassination. But behind that fence line, it is wide open to half of Dallas. Impossible for anyone to stand there, fire the shots and escape unnoticed. And that doesn't even get into the logical inconsistency of framing someone firing from behind by shooting JFK from in front.
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Anyone who has ever been to Dealey Plaza knows that the very last place that any assassin would have fired a shot from would be the grassy knoll. It falsely appears to afford seclusion when viewed from Elm St. From that perspective, the folks at the scene had cause to believe an assassin might have fired a shot from that location because it offered apparent seclusion and proximity to location of the assassination. But behind that fence line, it is wide open to half of Dallas. Impossible for anyone to stand there, fire the shots and escape unnoticed. And that doesn't even get into the logical inconsistency of framing someone firing from behind by shooting JFK from in front.
Yes. And you'd have Lee Bowers, in an elevated tower, overlooking the entire fence line. Bit difficult to fire shots with someone looking at you like that.
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Anyone who has ever been to Dealey Plaza knows that the very last place that any assassin would have fired a shot from would be the grassy knoll. It falsely appears to afford seclusion when viewed from Elm St. From that perspective, the folks at the scene had cause to believe an assassin might have fired a shot from that location because it offered apparent seclusion and proximity to location of the assassination. But behind that fence line, it is wide open to half of Dallas. Impossible for anyone to stand there, fire the shots and escape unnoticed. And that doesn't even get into the logical inconsistency of framing someone firing from behind by shooting JFK from in front.
So now you are an expert on sniper locations, or do you simply watch too many movies?
Sometimes the best place to hide is in the open and where there not witnesses who saw men flashing law enforcement badges when no agency had anybody in the area?
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So now you are an expert on sniper locations, or do you simply watch too many movies?
Sometimes the best place to hide is in the open and where there not witnesses who saw men flashing law enforcement badges when no agency had anybody in the area?
So you are suggesting that someone has to be an "expert" on sniper locations to conclude that standing out in the open is not the best place to murder someone and get away. HA HA HA. And using your own logic we must conclude you are in a position to dispute that seemingly obvious point because you are an "expert on sniper locations"? And you are citing as support for this conclusion that members of the alleged conspiracy who were in the open were noticed? And the best way to frame someone shooting JFK from behind is to shoot him from an entirely different location with an entirely different rifle thereby requiring a cover up of the evidence including bullets and wounds (i.e. necessitating access to the president's body and evidence after the fact) when all that complexity and risk could be avoided just by having your fantasy sniper fire the shots from the same location that your fantasy conspirators intend to frame their patsy using the MC rifle associated with him (i.e. the 6th floor window). So entertaining.
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So you are suggesting that someone has to be an "expert" on sniper locations to conclude that standing out in the open is not the best place to murder someone and get away. HA HA HA. And using your own logic we must conclude you are in a position to dispute that seemingly obvious point because you are an "expert on sniper locations"? And you are citing as support for this conclusion that members of the alleged conspiracy who were in the open were noticed? And the best way to frame someone shooting JFK from behind is to shoot him from an entirely different location with an entirely different rifle thereby requiring a cover up of the evidence including bullets and wounds (i.e. necessitating access to the president's body and evidence after the fact) when all that complexity and risk could be avoided just by having your fantasy sniper fire the shots from the same location that your fantasy conspirators intend to frame their patsy using the MC rifle associated with him (i.e. the 6th floor window). So entertaining.
This is the same stunt he pulled on me when I said I didn't believe Oswald was a CIA agent. My response that I didn't think Oswald was one came after a number of people claimed Oswald indeed was an agent. The typical back and forth on who Oswald was sort of exchange.
He then asked me what my firsthand knowledge of intelligence operations was. Not, mind you, the people making the claim but me, disagreeing with the claim. So I cited the judgment of CIA people. Not good enough. Then KGB people. Not good enough. So the original challenge was both silly and dishonest. He wasn't going to accept the judgment of people with actual firsthand knowledge of the issue.
In any case, we have once again the claim that powerful groups (in numerous agencies and with numerous political views, e.g,. Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, all who hate each other) conspiring to kill the president in broad daylight with hundreds of people watching, many with cameras. And then altering much of the evidence to make it look like the shots came from behind when they came from elsewhere. And then covering this all up. For half a century.
This is sheer lunacy and at some point we have to recognize that we're trying to reason with people who believe in such lunacy. And act accordingly.
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IMO, this thread is a waste of your attention, if you allot your time to attempting to learn more to resolve potentially resolvable issues or at least head in that direction. The test? Nothing will be resolved here, it is distraction and that is the goal!
The domain renewal of jfklancer.com apparently has not happened, they may have lost control of the URL.
Deborah Conway will inform you of who is eliminated as a suspected Secret Service agent on the knoll.:
http://web.archive.org/web/20210127101040/http://www.jfklancer.com/knollagent/index.html
Captain James Powell contradicts the testimony of his former commanding officer, Col. Jones. :
Read the part covering the HSCA testimony of Col. Robert E. Jones, commander of military intelligence based in San Antonio after the page at the link above.
http://web.archive.org/web/20191108022201/http://www.jfklancer.com/RobertJones.html
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This is the same stunt he pulled on me when I said I didn't believe Oswald was a CIA agent. My response that I didn't think Oswald was one came after a number of people claimed Oswald indeed was an agent. The typical back and forth on who Oswald was sort of exchange.
He then asked me what my firsthand knowledge of intelligence operations was. Not, mind you, the people making the claim but me, disagreeing with the claim. So I cited the judgment of CIA people. Not good enough. Then KGB people. Not good enough. So the original challenge was both silly and dishonest. He wasn't going to accept the judgment of people with actual firsthand knowledge of the issue.
In any case, we have once again the claim that powerful groups (in numerous agencies and with numerous political views, e.g,. Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, all who hate each other) conspiring to kill the president in broad daylight with hundreds of people watching, many with cameras. And then altering much of the evidence to make it look like the shots came from behind when they came from elsewhere. And then covering this all up. For half a century.
This is sheer lunacy and at some point we have to recognize that we're trying to reason with people who believe in such lunacy. And act accordingly.
Oswald, the communist who frequently associated with anti-communists, most likely wasn’t a CIA officer but that doesn’t mean that the CIA or other intelligence agencies didn’t find him useful as an asset who could be manipulated for intelligence operations.
The fingerprints of the intelligence community are all over his biography from his participation in the Civil Air Patrol where he met David Ferrie to his fake FPFCC activism.
That intelligence agencies have covered up their knowledge and involvement with Oswald pre-November 22 doesn’t prove they were involved with JFK’s assassination. The innocent explanation is they’re embarrassed to be connected to the alleged assassin of a US President but played no direct role in the assassination.
The CIA no longer denies that they engaged in a coverup post-JFK assassination. So it’s legitimate to speculate about why they remain so secretive about some agents and operations from almost 60 years ago.
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Two plausible explanations for the Grassy Knoll issue:
A) a shooter at the grassy knoll was responsible for the wounds to Kennedy’s head and throat (the Parkland doctors thought the throat wound was an entry wound).
or
B) the grassy knoll shooter fired blanks to confuse the crowd and draw attention away from snipers in other locations. Some witnesses reported seeing puffs of smoke or flashes of light near the Grassy Knoll.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the crowd was drawn to the Knoll immediately after the assassination. Something happened there.
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IMO, this thread is a waste of your attention, if you allot your time to attempting to learn more to resolve potentially resolvable issues or at least head in that direction. The test? Nothing will be resolved here, it is distraction and that is the goal!
The domain renewal of jfklancer.com apparently has not happened, they may have lost control of the URL.
Deborah Conway will inform you of who is eliminated as a suspected Secret Service agent on the knoll.:
http://web.archive.org/web/20210127101040/http://www.jfklancer.com/knollagent/index.html
Captain James Powell contradicts the testimony of his former commanding officer, Col. Jones. :
Read the part covering the HSCA testimony of Col. Robert E. Jones, commander of military intelligence based in San Antonio after the page at the link above.
http://web.archive.org/web/20191108022201/http://www.jfklancer.com/RobertJones.html
James Powell said that he took the photo of the TSBD several minutes AFTER the shots were fired.... When comparing shadows ( shadow on the fire escape ladder ) in his photo against other photos taken during the shooting It's obvious that Powell took his photo BEFORE the shooting.
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So you are suggesting that someone has to be an "expert" on sniper locations to conclude that standing out in the open is not the best place to murder someone and get away. HA HA HA. And using your own logic we must conclude you are in a position to dispute that seemingly obvious point because you are an "expert on sniper locations"? And you are citing as support for this conclusion that members of the alleged conspiracy who were in the open were noticed? And the best way to frame someone shooting JFK from behind is to shoot him from an entirely different location with an entirely different rifle thereby requiring a cover up of the evidence including bullets and wounds (i.e. necessitating access to the president's body and evidence after the fact) when all that complexity and risk could be avoided just by having your fantasy sniper fire the shots from the same location that your fantasy conspirators intend to frame their patsy using the MC rifle associated with him (i.e. the 6th floor window). So entertaining.
:D
What exactly is an 'expert in sniper locations' anyway? And how do you become one?
I've met doctors, builders, chefs, taxi drivers, scientists, etc but I've never come across someone who's said "Oh, I'm an expert in sniper locations"
In all seriousness though, I do thiink Weidmann might be on to something. I mean, look at all historic accounts of snipers who have assassinated people in broad daylight and in full view of people and yet got away completely undetected.
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I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the crowd was drawn to the Knoll immediately after the assassination. Something happened there.
I queried this on here a few months back and I think the logical explanation seemed to be that someone told a policeman that the shots came from the grassy knoll and people followed him as he ran in that direction.
My initial query was that I thought it odd that so many people would have ran towards the knoll if they genuinely believed that's where the gunman was. Surely, most people's natural instinct would be to run away from that area?
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So they followed a policeman running towards a nonevent because....policeman.
Thumb1:
If you find the old thread, you'll notice that it was your fellow CTer friends who came up with that explanation so you're technically arguing against them, not me.
As I stated, I didn't really buy the theory and still believe most people would have ran away from the area if they genuinely believed that's where the shots were coming from.
But nice to see you taking a stance against the CTers for once rather than just being objective to LNers for the hell of it :)
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I don't have time to look for old threads so unclear what theory you once discussed or didn't buy.
Well I just told you.
Sorry, I should have highlighted which arguments were put forward by LNers and which were put forward by CTers so you knew which comment to automatically object against
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I queried this on here a few months back and I think the logical explanation seemed to be that someone told a policeman that the shots came from the grassy knoll and people followed him as he ran in that direction.
My initial query was that I thought it odd that so many people would have ran towards the knoll if they genuinely believed that's where the gunman was. Surely, most people's natural instinct would be to run away from that area?
I thought it odd that so many people would have ran towards the knoll if they genuinely believed that's where the gunman was. Surely, most people's natural instinct would be to run away from that area?
Perhaps, but There was more than one policeman converging on the Knoll and going toward the railroad yard behind the picket fence.... So I believe your initial explanation was probably correct....
I think the logical explanation seemed to be that someone told a policeman that the shots came from the grassy knoll and people followed him as he ran in that direction.
However, I doubt that anybody told the police that the shots came from behind the fence..... Those cops senses told them where the shots had came from...
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If you find the old thread, you'll notice that it was your fellow CTer friends who came up with that explanation so you're technically arguing against them, not me.
As I stated, I didn't really buy the theory and still believe most people would have ran away from the area if they genuinely believed that's where the shots were coming from.
But nice to see you taking a stance against the CTers for once rather than just being objective to LNers for the hell of it :)
Anyone in that situation, other than law enforcement, who runs toward gunfire deserves to be shot haha
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So your latest theory is that I would automatically object against, say, the LN argument.
Something you can backup with evidence?
WHEN DID I SAY THAT????? (to borrow one of your most overused comebacks)
Christ! You really do take everything so literal, don't you. You must be an absolute hoot at parties.
Person: "Hey, Otto. I've got a joke for you. Why did the chicken cross the road?"
You: "What chicken? Where's your PROOF that he crossed the road? EVIDENCE!"
The above is something I just made up for fun, by the way, before you reply asking me to provide proof that that conversation actually happened. ::)
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Anyone in that situation, other than law enforcement, who runs toward gunfire deserves to be shot haha
Exactly!
It would make more sense that they were running in that direction to get cover, which would suggest the shots were coming anywhere but the knoll.
It would also sound more heroic for witnesses to say they were running towards where they thought the gunman was than to say they were running to a place they felt was more safe because they were scared. But that is just speculation on my part.
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I queried this on here a few months back and I think the logical explanation seemed to be that someone told a policeman that the shots came from the grassy knoll and people followed him as he ran in that direction.
My initial query was that I thought it odd that so many people would have ran towards the knoll if they genuinely believed that's where the gunman was. Surely, most people's natural instinct would be to run away from that area?
Several witnesses reported hearing gunshots coming from the Knoll.
Some reported seeing smoke or flashes of light from the Knoll.
Not everyone is the same. There are lots of good people who’s first instinct was to find out what was going on or try to apprehend the shooter.
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The problem is NOBODY ran immediately to the classic position of "behind the fence on the Knoll" till much much later.
JohnM
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‘ 21 JFK cops who heard a grassy knoll shot’
Stewart Galanor says 52 earwitnesses said they thought one or more shots came from in front of the motorcade. Richard Charnin says 88 witnesses heard a knoll shot. Even John McAdams, a die-hard anti-conspiracy theorist, agrees that at least 33 witnesses spoke of hearing a gunshot from in front of the motorcade.
Railroad worker S.M. Holland, who was watching from the Triple Underpass, says he heard a rifle report and saw smoke from behind the stockade face atop the grassy knoll. (Watch Holland tell his story here.)
The area was searched by police within minutes of JFK’s assassination. No gunman was found.
Twenty one officers said, independently, that their reaction to the gunfire was to go search the area famously known as “the grassy knoll.”
The unanimity of their reaction is striking. On November 22, after hearing gunfire near the presidential motorcade, they all converged on the parking lot and the railroad yard, lined by a stockade fence, on top of a grassy embankment overlooking the motorcade route.
https://jfkfacts.org/21-jfk-cops-who-heard-a-grassy-knoll-shot/
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‘ 21 JFK cops who heard a grassy knoll shot’
https://jfkfacts.org/21-jfk-cops-who-heard-a-grassy-knoll-shot/
The evidence is that 95% of earwitnesses say the shots came from only ONE direction because if indeed there was crossfire from both ends of Dealey Plaza then that would be bleedingly obvious and we know beyond all doubt that both Kennedy and Connally were struck at least once from behind, therefore all shots came from behind!
And as often stated having a shooter in front when your Patsy is behind makes Zero sense. Logically if the Conspirators wanted to make sure of a Kill they would have multiple shooters peppering the buildings behind but in front, Nahhhh!
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CZKkyIJ4f3I/UoloTHhbOuI/AAAAAAAAw5s/rI56KLj0JEw/s1600/Pie+Chart+(With+Caption)+--+Location+Of+Shots.jpg)
JohnM
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I consider myself results oriented. I spent the day posting and supporting the authenticity of the obituaries of all three tramps. The obit birth dates match the DPD detention records created in either 1963 or created or altered when publicly disclosed in 1989.
Gerry routinely "suckers you into" worthless diversions (fruitless over well plowed ground) like this thread, or utter nonsense like this.
Rare footage shows JFK and Castro in secret meeting after missile crisis New
Started by Gerry Down on September 09, 2021, 08:35:23 PM
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The evidence is that 95% of earwitnesses say the shots came from only ONE direction because if indeed there was crossfire from both ends of Dealey Plaza then that would be bleedingly obvious and we know beyond all doubt that both Kennedy and Connally were struck at least once from behind, therefore all shots came from behind!
And as often stated having a shooter in front when your Patsy is behind makes Zero sense. Logically if the Conspirators wanted to make sure of a Kill they would have multiple shooters peppering the buildings behind but in front, Nahhhh!
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CZKkyIJ4f3I/UoloTHhbOuI/AAAAAAAAw5s/rI56KLj0JEw/s1600/Pie+Chart+(With+Caption)+--+Location+Of+Shots.jpg)
JohnM
Police officers recognize gunfire more than the average civilian..
Over a dozen of them said they heard shots from the Grassy Knoll area.
Some said they heard shots from both the Knoll and TSBD.
I know that ear and eye witnesses aren’t the most reliable evidence but if dozens of people, including police officers, reported hearing shots fired from that direction, then it means something might’ve happened there.
Having a second shooter makes perfect sense as a plan B if one assassin fails to get the kill shot.
Most Americans didn’t see the Zapruder film or even know it existed until the 1970s.
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Exactly!
It would make more sense that they were running in that direction to get cover, which would suggest the shots were coming anywhere but the knoll.
It would also sound more heroic for witnesses to say they were running towards where they thought the gunman was than to say they were running to a place they felt was more safe because they were scared. But that is just speculation on my part.
'It would make more sense that they were running in that direction to get cover, which would suggest the shots were coming anywhere but the knoll'.
> That implies that the cop would have to be running away as well haha. Seriously, I think they were caught up in the moment and thought the killer might had been at least spotted.. you know; the 'morbid curiosity' thing. Alternately, others might have realized that like a school of fish, safety-in-numbers is the way to go
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The problem is NOBODY ran immediately to the classic position of "behind the fence on the Knoll" till much much later.
"the classic position of "behind the fence on the Knoll"
How were they supposed to know how to get there? Oh I know...high hurdle.
"till much much later"
Much much later as opposed to just much later or a little while later or the next day?
The Hughes film should clear that up a bit-------
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Police officers recognize gunfire more than the average civilian..
Over a dozen of them said they heard shots from the Grassy Knoll area.
Some said they heard shots from both the Knoll and TSBD.
I know that ear and eye witnesses aren’t the most reliable evidence but if dozens of people, including police officers, reported hearing shots fired from that direction, then it means something might’ve happened there.
Having a second shooter makes perfect sense as a plan B if one assassin fails to get the kill shot.
Most Americans didn’t see the Zapruder film or even know it existed until the 1970s.
Why are you ignoring the significant impact of my post and deferring to your default position of appeal to authority? This has zero to do with recognizing gunfire per se, as we are discussing locating two loud audio sources from either end of Dealey Plaza and it doesn't take a trained brain to calculate the difference in the loudness and perceived direction of these sounds.
The majority of earwitnesses were between the Depository and the Grassy Knoll and the vast majority of these earwitnesses say the loud sounds emanated from either one end of Dealey Plaza or the other end, and there was only a tiny amount of earwitnesses who say that these loud sounds came from multiple directions.
Thus all the loud sounds came only from one direction and since we know that both Kennedy and Connally were struck from behind, it can only follow that ALL the shots came from behind, there can be no other conclusion.
You yourself state that "Over a dozen of them said they heard shots from the Grassy Knoll area." and only "Some said they heard shots from both the Knoll and TSBD", meaning that those Police Officers who thought they heard ALL the shots from the Grassy Knoll area by definition must be wrong because we know beyond all doubt that both men were struck from behind.
JohnM
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"the classic position of "behind the fence on the Knoll"
How were they supposed to know how to get there? Oh I know...high hurdle.
"till much much later"
Much much later as opposed to just much later or a little while later or the next day?
The Hughes film should clear that up a bit-------
Thanks Jerry, your video did clear up a lot of things but not how you wanted, in the Zapruder Film there was bugger all people on the grassy area between Elm and Main street and your video shows a plethora of people who were running from a position who would have next to no chance of knowing the origin of the shots, and these people and others like them who also had little idea of where the shots came from, are the ones we later see running up the Knoll steps and those that are in the Railway yard. Thanks again!
(https://i.postimg.cc/gk531TfH/People-running-to-Dealey-Plaza.gif)
Btw your attempt at comedy of "high hurdling" the fence doesn't make sense because if these concerned citizens were in fact intent on locating where they thought the sniper was, they could easily peek over the fence but as seen in the earliest photos, these witnesses totally ignored the the fence and ran straight on by! Another hit and miss.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vZG7MV00/running-past-grassy-knoll-fence.jpg)
JohnM
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Police officers recognize gunfire more than the average civilian..
Of course
Over a dozen of them said they heard shots from the Grassy Knoll area.
Perhaps they did
Some said they heard shots from both the Knoll and TSBD.
And perhaps they did
Why are you ignoring the significant impact of my post and deferring to your default position of appeal to authority?
Oh boo hoo it probably needs to be ignored.
Thus all the loud sounds came only from one direction and since we know that both Kennedy and Connally were struck from behind, it can only follow that ALL the shots came from behind, there can be no other conclusion.
You made a broad assumption and left out other possibilities.
You yourself state that "Over a dozen of them said they heard shots from the Grassy Knoll area."[several people did] and only "Some said they heard shots from both the Knoll and TSBD", meaning that those Police Officers who thought they heard ALL the shots from the Grassy Knoll area by definition must be wrong because we know beyond all doubt that both men were struck from behind.
Speculation.. yes, both men were struck from behind. But that does not mean that all shots were fired from the 6th floor [even though shell casings were left to roll around. It also does not mean that there were positively no shots fired from the front. It just doesn't fit everybody's bedtime story.
Thanks Jerry, your video did clear up a lot of things but not how you wanted, in the Zapruder Film there was bugger all people on the grassy area between Elm and Main street and your video shows a plethora of people who were running from a position who would have next to no chance of knowing the origin of the shots
So you say. What does bugger all people mean?
they could easily peek over the fence but as seen in the earliest photos, these witnesses totally ignored the the fence and ran straight on by!
Looking for a way around it I would figure.
But you said---The problem is NOBODY ran immediately to the classic position of "behind the fence on the Knoll" till much much later.---
What is you idea of the classic position? and how long is much much ...as you have failed to reply.
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What does bugger all people mean?
"bugger all" noun
Definition of bugger all
slang, British
: NOTHING
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bugger%20all
JohnM
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"bugger all" ...slang, British
: NOTHING
I guess I could have looked that one up. I thought it was the mis-spelling of a piece of dried nasal mucus.
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I am of the firm opinion that 3 shots were fired from the 6th floor of the TSBD (although not by Oswald).
A major problem for this opinion is the amount of ear-witnesses who heard shots coming from the west of the TSBD (railroad/grassy knoll area).
In her WC testimony, Geneva Hine describes how intense the sound of the shots was in the building:
Mr. BALL Could you tell where the shots were coming from?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they came from inside the building.
Mr. BALL. How do you know that?
Miss HINE. Because the building vibrated from the result of the explosion coming in.
Mr. BALL. It appeared to you that the shots came from the building?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you know they were shots at the time?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they sounded almost like cannon shots they were so terrific.
Hine was on the second floor so the sound on the 6th floor must've been even more intense.
The pic below is taken from the Ted Hughes film and shows the south-western windows of the 6th floor open to their fullest extent.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tJJpqCQC/Screenshot-TSBD-Hughes.png) (https://postimg.cc/bD7KLPwK)
Might it be possible that the sound of the booming, reverberating shots ("like a cannon") exploding out of these windows gave ear-witnesses the distinct impression the sound of the shots was coming from the west of the TSBD?
Just a thought.
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I am of the firm opinion that 3 shots were fired from the 6th floor of the TSBD (although not by Oswald).
A major problem for this opinion is the amount of ear-witnesses who heard shots coming from the west of the TSBD (railroad/grassy knoll area).
In her WC testimony, Geneva Hine describes how intense the sound of the shots was in the building:
Mr. BALL Could you tell where the shots were coming from?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they came from inside the building.
Mr. BALL. How do you know that?
Miss HINE. Because the building vibrated from the result of the explosion coming in.
Mr. BALL. It appeared to you that the shots came from the building?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you know they were shots at the time?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they sounded almost like cannon shots they were so terrific.
Hine was on the second floor so the sound on the 6th floor must've been even more intense.
The pic below is taken from the Ted Hughes film and shows the south-western windows of the 6th floor open to their fullest extent.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tJJpqCQC/Screenshot-TSBD-Hughes.png) (https://postimg.cc/bD7KLPwK)
Might it be possible that the sound of the booming, reverberating shots ("like a cannon") exploding out of these windows gave ear-witnesses the distinct impression the sound of the shots was coming from the west of the TSBD?
Just a thought.
Dan, Do you believe that if the shots were fired from the 6th floor then the ladies at the windows on the fourth floor would have experienced even louder blasts than Mrs Hines? ....And how about the three stooges who had their heads out of the fifth floor windows?? And if Mrs Hines senses were working, then she seems to be describing the blast from the muzzle of a rifle that was aimed in her general direction. As I recall Mrs Hines was behind an EAST facing window on the second floor.... So if she heard the shots as " canon shots" then those shots most likely were fired from the west side of the Dal tex building which was across Houston street from the TSBD.
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Dan, Do you believe that if the shots were fired from the 6th floor then the ladies at the windows on the fourth floor would have experienced even louder blasts than Mrs Hines? ....And how about the three stooges who had their heads out of the fifth floor windows?? And if Mrs Hines senses were working, then she seems to be describing the blast from the muzzle of a rifle that was aimed in her general direction. As I recall Mrs Hines was behind an EAST facing window on the second floor.... So if she heard the shots as " canon shots" then those shots most likely were fired from the west side of the Dal tex building which was across Houston street from the TSBD.
Hine has no reason to be anything other than totally honest about her recollection of the shots.
Debris fell on the heads of the three stooges as a result of the shots.
Eddie Piper describes the first floor window as shaking.
Dal Tex??
Really?
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Hine has no reason to be anything other than totally honest about her recollection of the shots.
Debris fell on the heads of the three stooges as a result of the shots.
Eddie Piper describes the first floor window as shaking.
Dal Tex??
Really?
Yes... really..... Even if you have no experience with fire arms common sense dictates that the closer you are to the source of the gun fire the louder the report. AND the bang at the muzzle end of a rifle is much louder than the bang to the rear of the muzzle..... In a confined space (Like the chasm between The TSBD and the Dal-Tex buildings) that muzzle blast is amplified.
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Yes... really..... Even if you have no experience with fire arms common sense dictates that the closer you are to the source of the gun fire the louder the report. AND the bang at the muzzle end of a rifle is much louder than the bang to the rear of the muzzle..... In a confined space (Like the chasm between The TSBD and the Dal-Tex buildings) that muzzle blast is amplified.
Bollocks
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Bollocks
I don't believe that there were any shots fired from the TSBD. ( And I strongly believe the bullet that tore JFK's brain out of his skull was fired from the front. AND .....I believe the bullet that struck Connally was fired from the rear. The evidence points to these conclusions. So it's possible that the bullet that struck Connally was fired from the Dal Tex.
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I don't believe that there were any shots fired from the TSBD. ( And I strongly believe the bullet that tore JFK's brain out of his skull was fired from the front. AND .....I believe the bullet that struck Connally was fired from the rear. The evidence points to these conclusions. So it's possible that the bullet that struck Connally was fired from the Dal Tex.
I am of the opinion that three shots (and only three) were fired from the 6th floor of the TSBD.
The first shot went through both men.
The shot that blew JFK's head open was fired from behind.
"The evidence points to these conclusions"
If I recall correctly you refuse to examine the Zapruder footage, the most important piece of evidence in this case (IMO)
Excuse me if I take your pronouncements on where the evidence leads with a pinch of salt.
Treat this as a thought experiment - something you don't have to believe or accept.
If shots were fired on the 6th floor, could the booming, reverberation of these shots exiting the fully open windows at the south-west corner of the 6th floor, give the impression the shots were coming from the west of the TSBD to ear-witnesses in Dealey Plaza.
That was the point of my original post (# 35)
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I am of the opinion that three shots (and only three) were fired from the 6th floor of the TSBD.
The first shot went through both men.
The shot that blew JFK's head open was fired from behind.
"The evidence points to these conclusions"
If I recall correctly you refuse to examine the Zapruder footage, the most important piece of evidence in this case (IMO)
Excuse me if I take your pronouncements on where the evidence leads with a pinch of salt.
Treat this as a thought experiment - something you don't have to believe or accept.
If shots were fired on the 6th floor, could the booming, reverberation of these shots exiting the fully open windows at the south-west corner of the 6th floor, give the impression the shots were coming from the west of the TSBD to ear-witnesses in Dealey Plaza.
That was the point of my original post (# 35)
If shots were fired on the 6th floor, could the booming, reverberation of these shots exiting the fully open windows at the south-west corner of the 6th floor, give the impression the shots were coming from the west of the TSBD to ear-witnesses in Dealey Plaza.
Wow!...This is a tuff question.... And it calls for a speculative answer which would be based on a person experience with firearms and the sound of gunfire.
I'll wager that if you ask a combat veteran who had experienced gunfire if he could determine where the shots were being fired from, he would tell you that "Yes" he could determine the location of the gun that was being fired.
But in answer to your question.....I truly doubt that the sound of shots from inside of the TSBD could be mistaken for shots from somewhere outside of the building... I believe the building would act as a large muffler....So that the sounds of shots from INSIDE the building would not be very loud on the outside of the building.
I don't expect you to immediately jump "on my band wagon" ....but I hope that you'll see the absurdity in the claim of witnesses who were standing on the north side of Elm near the north pergola. They described the sound of the shot ( singular)as a very loud ear shattering explosion. Commonsense dictates that this shot was not fired from INSDE the TSBD on the sixth floor.