JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Alan Ford on December 04, 2019, 01:09:40 AM
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Friends, now that Mr Oswald has been found in the Wiegman film-----------
(https://i.imgur.com/URqZFym.jpg)
-----------we can rule him out as Prayer Person in Wiegman. Thumb1:
As I have argued elsewhere, Prayer Person in Wiegman is in fact Mr Bill Shelley.
But! Who is Prayer Person in Darnell?
(https://i.imgur.com/AeQnlFA.jpg)
It's not Mr Shelley, that's for sure.
Could it be Mr Oswald? It's just possible, though I now strongly doubt it (for a reason I won't go into here... oh alright then: white tshirt!).
The problem is, no other Depository employee fits the bill. :'(
However! Here's a new candidate: Mr Ken DuVall.
Thumb1:
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http://www.theinnersoulofme.com/destiny/shiny-object-syndrome/
(http://jfkforum.com/images/SeinfeldShowAboutNothing.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/SeinfeldShowAboutAprilFools.jpg)
You're four months early.... featuring "some guy" who was unknown until circa 2009, born in 1931, died in 2018, offered no verifiable proof of his claims,
and who also claimed he saw what he imagined was a "railroad worker," disembark from a black car, (or for that matter, the "railroad worker or Mr. Duvall's commercial vehicle) not captured in any known still or moving image, and walk on the grassy knoll, (or whatever) with what might have been a rifle concealed in a leg of the coveralls he was attired in. Not only are the black car, the railroad worker, his sighting of Oswald, and his textbook delivery vehicle unverified, Duvall's presence is unmentioned in any witness account.
Why not proclaim you've achieved your goal in your next post, and just call it a day?
Out of consideration for readers who could be doing something else (like scooping up and weighing their navel lint) instead of wading through tens of future pages of this thread, I thought it would be considerate to get these insurmountable challenges to the potential of this thread informing anyone of anything, out of the way sooner rather than later.
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You're four months early.... featuring "some guy" who was unknown until circa 2009, born in 1931, died in 2018, offered no verifiable proof of his claims,
and who also claimed he saw what he imagined was a "railroad worker," disembark from a black car, (or for that matter, the "railroad worker or Mr. Duvall's commercial vehicle) not captured in any known still or moving image, and walk on the grassy knoll, (or whatever) with what might have been a rifle concealed in a leg of the coveralls he was attired in. Not only are the black car, the railroad worker, his sighting of Oswald, and his textbook delivery vehicle unverified, Duvall's presence is unmentioned in any witness account.
Why not proclaim you've achieved your goal in your next post, and just call it a day?
Out of consideration for readers who could be doing something else (like scooping up and weighing their navel lint) instead of wading through tens of future pages of this thread, I thought it would be considerate to get these insurmountable challenges to the potential of this thread informing anyone of anything, out of the way sooner rather than later.
Well, Mr Scully, I have found Mr Oswald--------------the accused assassin (of JFK, that is, not Lincoln, sorry)--------------in the Wiegman film. This obviously arouses feelings of intense resentment in the breast of a sad insecure little narcissist like you, but hey--------not my problem! Thumb1:
Now to your substantive points!
1. The Sixth Floor Museum saw fit to do an oral interview with Mr DuVall. One assumes they would not have gone ahead with that without his furnishing any verification of his employment history with Central Motor Freight. But if your positively Sherlock-Holmes-like ability to use the word search function on archives has yielded evidence that he made his employment history up, and/or that Central Motor Freight truckers never picked up shipments at the Texas School Book Depository, and/or that Mr DuVall himself never picked up shipments at the Depository, do let us know! Thumb1:
2. You speak of verifiable proof of his claims. What exactly would you like from Mr DuVall by way of verifiable proof for his claim to have encountered Mr Oswald in the second-floor lunchroom before the motorcade? If he didn't take a photograph, does that prove it didn't happen? If Mr Oswald didn't say Mr DuVall's name at the midnight press conference, does that prove Mr DuVall a liar?
3. Mr DuVall claimed that he asked Mr Oswald if he was going to go out to watch the motorcade and that Mr Oswald answered, "Yeah, I'm gonna go see him." This is interesting because we now know-------------thanks to Mr Kamp--------------that Mr Oswald indeed claimed to have visited the second floor lunchroom before the motorcade and to have gone "outside to watch P. parade". And indeed we now know that Mr Oswald did in fact go outside to watch the P. parade. A lucky double guess from Mr DuVall, several years before the unearthing of the Hosty notes? Maybe... Maybe not! Thumb1:
4. Mr DuVall claimed to have been sitting on the front steps for the motorcade and to have noticed the black car when JFK "came down Main to turn right". You say there is no still or moving image of this event. Can you kindly point us to the still and/or moving images taken of the front of the Depository when JFK was on Main Street about to turn right? Thumb1:
5. You obviously don't believe that Mr DuVall is Prayer Person in Darnell. Fine. Who do you think Prayer Person in Darnell is? Can you give us a single name? If you couldn't be bothered with the issue, then you are perfectly free to dump your incoherent off-topic word-search garbage on other threads! Thumb1:
6. I will come on to Mr DuVall's claim to have been sitting on the front steps when JFK passed by anon. There may possibly be photographic evidence to support his claim. Thumb1:
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Season's Greeting!
In fairness to those reading along, we should consider the following before placing Ken DuVall into Prayer Man’s position:
*Did the delivery-drivers in his trucking firm wear a particular uniform scheme/pattern, taking into consideration the colours of the shirt, trousers and/or cap w/an accompanying name tag formation/etching across one of the shirt pockets…with all due respect to the Prayer Man figure his choice of clothing isn’t indicative of a uniformed delivery-driver as much as that of a capless TSBD employee warehouseman comfortable in his dress down familiar surroundings.
Upon reading the company’s website ---->
http://centralfreight.com/website/static/History.aspx
found no historical images to determine their choice of a uniform scheme, so left an inquiry on their Contact page ---->
http://centralfreight.com/website/HumanResources.aspx
Hello
A quick question for you, From 1952 to 1977, Is there someone in the Office who may recall if your delivery-drivers wore uniforms; and if so what were the specific colours? Would it have been a reddish brown shirt over gray pants?
Best to all of you in your company for a safe & happy holiday season right into the new year.
Alan J. Ford
New London, CT
(860) 443-XXXX
a1anford@aol.com
Hopefully someone-amid this busy holiday season-may have time on their hands to generate a response.
Will certainly share here if so. Meanwhile, for clarity sake, where I genuinely respect & admire Mr. Ford’s research efforts, I believe Prayer Man is the wrongly accused, captured in the same specific position throughout three different filming sequences (Wiegman, Cook and Darnell).
The wrongly accused was framed. The wrongly accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Season's Greeting!
In fairness to those reading along, we should consider the following before placing Ken DuVall into Prayer Man’s position:
*Did the delivery-drivers in his trucking firm wear a particular uniform scheme/pattern, taking into consideration the colours of the shirt, trousers and/or cap w/an accompanying name tag formation/etching across one of the shirt pockets…with all due respect to the Prayer Man figure his choice of clothing isn’t indicative of a uniformed delivery-driver as much as that of a capless TSBD employee warehouseman comfortable in his dress down familiar surroundings.
Upon reading the company’s website ---->
http://centralfreight.com/website/static/History.aspx
found no historical images to determine their choice of a uniform scheme, so left an inquiry on their Contact page ---->
http://centralfreight.com/website/HumanResources.aspx
Hello
A quick question for you, From 1952 to 1977, Is there someone in the Office who may recall if your delivery-drivers wore uniforms; and if so what were the specific colours? Would it have been a reddish brown shirt over gray pants?
Best to all of you in your company for a safe & happy holiday season right into the new year.
Thank you very much for looking into this, Mr Ford! Thumb1:
Small point, but worth mentioning: Darnell does not show Prayer Man in a reddish brown shirt over gray pants, as it is a black-and-white film.
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You are certainly welcome, Mr. Ford, and point well taken at the late Jimmy Darnell (RIP) black & white film.
While awaiting a response from my inquiry to Mr. DuVall's former employer, did some more snooping around today...managing to find...
Mr. DuVall’s surviving daughter’s Facebook page ----->
https://www.facebook.com/teresa.duvallwalker
In her photos, particularly the 33rd row down, very 1st image (there's a photo of her parents touring the White House in 1963)
Mr. DuVall’s thinning, balding hair on both sides atop his head in that photo is not similar to the colour nor volume/texture of Prayer Man, who has much more hair than the obvious balding Mr. DuVall during the same year (1963).
Again, appreciate your exemplary research, Mr. Ford, as we both share the same sentiments @ the wrongly accused had an airtight alibi, one that was purposely hidden from public view/consumption for decades. The wrongly accused was framed.
The wrongly accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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You are certainly welcome, Mr. Ford, and point well taken at the late Jimmy Darnell (RIP) black & white photo.
While awaiting a response from my inquiry to Mr. DuVall's former employer, did some more snooping around today...managing to find...
Mr. DuVall’s surviving daughter’s Facebook page ----->
https://www.facebook.com/teresa.duvallwalker
In her photos, particularly the 33rd row down, very 1st image (there's photo of her parents touring the White House in 1963)
Mr. DuVall’s thinning, balding hair on both sides atop his head in that photo is not similar to the colour nor volume/texture of Prayer Man, who has much more hair than the obvious balding Mr. DuVall during the same year (1963).
Fantastic work, Mr Ford, thank you! Thumb1:
Is there any chance you could post the photograph in question here so we could take a look? If Mr DuVall's hair looks nothing like PrayerManInDarnell's, then I will not hesitate to rule him out!
Again, appreciate your exemplary research, Mr. Ford, as we both share the same sentiments @ the wrongly accused had an airtight alibi, one that was purposely hidden from public view/consumption for decades. The wrongly accused was framed.
The wrongly accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
Amen, brother! Thumb1:
(https://i.imgur.com/T0nXncJ.jpg)
Compare with this nonsense...
(https://i.imgur.com/S7eVIKj.jpg)
:D
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Fantastic work, Mr Ford, thank you! Thumb1:
Is there any chance you could post the photograph in question here so we could take a look? If Mr DuVall's hair looks nothing like PrayerManInDarnell's, then I will not hesitate to rule him out!
Amen, brother! Thumb1:
(https://i.imgur.com/T0nXncJ.jpg)
Compare with this nonsense...
(https://i.imgur.com/S7eVIKj.jpg)
:D
PrayerPerson was a dude taking pictures with a camera (photo or 8mm film). Nobody was paying attention to who was standing next to whom whilst the president was a-goin' by...... this was history !!! But alas, it wasn't Oswald. He was busy upstairs killing the president. The evidence is overwhelming.....
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At 12:30pm, CST, on 11/22/'63, there were numerous persons that were known to be standing on the top step/landing and stairs of the TexasSchoolBookDepository Building as the Presidential Motorcade turned onto Elm St and drove past the Elm St Entrance. And, said persons being employed at the TSBD Bldg, most if not all, knew who LeeHarveyOswald was. And, if not then certainly later, knew him by sight and name.
However, not a single eyewitness/occupant of the top step/landing/stairs ever gave sworn statements/testimony that LHO was on said top step/landing/stairs as the Limousine carrying President and Mrs Kennedy, as well as Governor and Mrs Connally drove past the TSBD Bldg.
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Friends, now that Mr Oswald has been found in the Wiegman film-----------
(https://i.imgur.com/URqZFym.jpg)
-----------we can rule him out as Prayer Person in Wiegman. Thumb1:
As I have argued elsewhere, Prayer Person in Wiegman is in fact Mr Bill Shelley.
But! Who is Prayer Person in Darnell?
(https://i.imgur.com/AeQnlFA.jpg)
It's not Mr Shelley, that's for sure.
Could it be Mr Oswald? It's just possible, though I now strongly doubt it (for a reason I won't go into here... oh alright then: white tshirt!).
The problem is, no other Depository employee fits the bill. :'(
However! Here's a new candidate: Mr Ken DuVall.
Thumb1:
Did you eliminate other possible causes of the Wiegman double images?
How about "camera shake".
If interested, starting at 6min27sec in, https://www.digital-photo-secrets.com/tip/129/the-top-4-causes-of-blurry-photos-and-how-to-fix-them/ (https://www.digital-photo-secrets.com/tip/129/the-top-4-causes-of-blurry-photos-and-how-to-fix-them/)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49188048908_4362c9825c_o.png)
If you start from the right hand side of the Wiegman sequence provided, which is earlier in the film sequence, from right to left (3 frames), the shake is slowly steadying while the prayerperson image in the shadows becomes more in focus, albeit still in shadow.
Same concept in the two left-hand frames.
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Did you eliminate other possible causes of the Wiegman double images?
How about "camera shake".
(~Snip~)
If you start from the right hand side of the Wiegman sequence provided, which is earlier in the film sequence, from right to left (3 frames), the shake is slowly steadying while the prayerperson image in the shadows becomes more in focus, albeit still in shadow.
Same concept in the two left-hand frames.
There is of course some camera shake & motion blur in these frames, but the phenomenon in multiple Lovelady@HigherElevation frames of a double head, one higher than the other, only attaches itself to Mr Lovelady------------the person in the doorway who has a 'shadow' down his side that (despite the best efforts of you & others, Mr Davidson) cannot be explained as a natural shadow.
If this were in the Zapruder film, you would be all over it!
Thumb1:
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Nothing more than intimidation, Mr. Trotter, especially when the safety and well being of one's loved ones are at stake/risk. Courage doesn't grow on trees, Mr. Trotter, especially when the risk far outweigh the rewards.
We all know what becomes of anyone who dares to come forward with the truth, especially if it involves seeing say the late John Gotti mete out mob "justice". Suddenly, amid a real paralyzing fear, no one saw anything. Same paralyzing fear is evident here in this case as well. Those people out on the steps there were essentially made an offer they could not refuse. It's that simple really.
The wrongly accused was right out there with them, how else could he have known precisely where Bill Shelley stood? Anyone genuinely up on the sixth floor and/or 2nd floor could not see Bill Shelly's specific position back in the landing.
The wrongly accused was framed.
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Great thanks for posting this 1963 photograph of Mr DuVall! Thumb1:
Not sure we can write off his being Prayer Man from this...
(https://i.imgur.com/fpS716x.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/y9x7VMe.jpg)
Mr DuVall is in sunlight here, but his hair on the left side (i.e. right as we look) looks quite dark (compare the effect of the sun on his wife's dark hair!).
If Mr Duvall's hair was not quite so tightly cut on 11/22/63, and if we are seeing Prayer Man's head in profile, then this could be a match IMO.
Thumb1:
(http://[img][img])[/img][/img] <----- made several good faith efforts to insert a much clearer photo for review, Mr. Ford, with any good fortune my forum benefactor, who has already aided me twice now w/posting a photo will complete the hat trick. Thanks in advance, cheers.
Otherwise, click on the following link for a much clearer Prayer Man comparison ---->
http://jfkact.org/?p=940
Scroll down to 3rd image. Unlike Mr. DuVall, Prayer Man does not present with a forehead shaped "V".
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(http://[img][img])[/img][/img] <----- made several good faith efforts to insert a much clearer photo for review, Mr. Ford, with any good fortune my forum benefactor, who has already aided me twice now w/posting a photo will complete the hat trick. Thanks in advance, cheers.
Otherwise, click on the following link for a much clearer Prayer Man comparison ---->
http://jfkact.org/?p=940
Scroll down to 3rd image. Unlike Mr. DuVall, Prayer Man does not present with a forehead shaped "V".
Hmmm, to be honest, Mr Ford, I'm not sure this enhancement isn't adding information not in the original image:
(https://i.imgur.com/1Jpxpf9.jpg)
If Mr Duvall in shadow and with somewhat longer hair------------
(https://i.imgur.com/oHY5Iik.jpg)
------------were to rotate into near-full profile, I think he might well appear this way:
(https://i.imgur.com/y9x7VMe.jpg)
Thumb1:
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Akin to our respective placement of the wrongly accused outside of the TSBD-in the front entrance of his workplace during the P. Parade, Mr. Ford, we'll also have to respectfully disagree upon Mr. DuVall as a candidate for Prayer Man as well.
That said, I am grateful to you for bringing some looooong overdue attention to the front entrance of the TSBD, and its occupants standing there.
If I get a response to my inquiry w/Mr. DuVall's employer, Central Freight, in respect to the uniform colour(s) scheme of their drivers covering Mr. DuVall's employment period, will certainly retrace my steps back here to share that development here. In the photos to date we have of Mr. DuVall, courtesy of his surviving daughter's FB page, it's not in character for him to present as a shabby dressed-down warehouse-man, with torn/ripped clothing left untucked/untidy.
We also have to take into account...hold that thought brb...Fido!!!!!
*Continuation...
My apologies, we rescued our pet dog from an animal shelter years ago, and there are times when he displays behaviour as if he has a few stubborn mules in his ancestry. As I was saying before, we also have to take into account the CE 1381 statements of the 69 TSBD employees, where in chorus all said they did not see any strangers that afternoon, which begs the question even IF Mr. DuVall was acquainted with several of them via his occasional delivery duties, How do we explain away the statements of the vast majority not acquainted with him? as they ventured back up the stairs to return inside the building...
Surely at least one clerk-typist, if not two dozen more working in a private office in the building void of seeing any deliveries being made, would have made mention of him as a stranger. Not even 1 out of 69...that's very telling.
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There is of course some camera shake & motion blur in these frames, but the phenomenon in multiple Lovelady@HigherElevation frames of a double head, one higher than the other, only attaches itself to Mr Lovelady------------the person in the doorway who has a 'shadow' down his side that (despite the best efforts of you & others, Mr Davidson) cannot be explained as a natural shadow.
If this were in the Zapruder film, you would be all over it!
Thumb1:
I asked if you tried to eliminate other possibilities.
For instance: De-interlacing along with Inverse telecining.
After that, stabilizing five consecutive frames and then creating a back/forth loop to compare Lovelady's characteristic movements with other objects within the same five frames.
From memory, my initial re-entry into this foray was the video posting of the cop stepping out of the shadow with a vertical shadow across his back and horizontal across his helmet.
I did not say anything about how far he was from the west wall or what time it was.
In fact, I have not stated an opinion on either the shadow or the double-head since then.
I have supplied examples for others if they wanted to form their own opinions.
You seem to have forgotten my railing gif that clearly showed which side the black hatted lady was on.
Also, a graphic showing the distance between the railing and the west wall(at 12:30, according to James H) relating to where that shadow falls.
Are there other sources of light within that alcove?
(https://s4.gifyu.com/images/Shake.gif)
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Akin to our respective placement of the wrongly accused outside of the TSBD-in the front entrance of his workplace during the P. Parade, Mr. Ford, we'll also have to respectfully disagree upon Mr. DuVall as a candidate for Prayer Man as well.
That said, I am grateful to you for bringing some looooong overdue attention to the front entrance of the TSBD, and its occupants standing there.
If I get a response to my inquiry w/Mr. DuVall's employer, Central Freight, in respect to the uniform colour(s) scheme of their drivers covering Mr. DuVall's employment period, will certainly retrace my steps back here to share that development here. In the photos to date we have of Mr. DuVall, courtesy of his surviving daughter's FB page, it's not in character for him to present as a shabby dressed-down warehouse-man, with torn/ripped clothing left untucked/untidy.
We also have to take into account...hold that thought brb...Fido!!!!!
Sounds good------and thank you! Thumb1:
My apologies, we rescued our pet dog from an animal shelter years ago, and there are times when he displays behaviour as if he has a few stubborn mules in his ancestry. As I was saying before, we also have to take into account the CE 1381 statements of the 69 TSBD employees, where in chorus all said they did not see any strangers that afternoon, which begs the question even IF Mr. DuVall was acquainted with several of them via his occasional delivery duties, How do we explain away the statements of the vast majority not acquainted with him? as they ventured back up the stairs to return inside the building...
Surely at least one clerk-typist, if not two dozen more working in a private office in the building void of seeing any deliveries being made, would have made mention of him as a stranger. Not even 1 out of 69...that's very telling.
I agree it's odd that no one would have remembered Mr DuVall's presence on the steps, but if he took shipments from the building on a regular basis then he will at least have been a familiar face and so not one to stand out as a 'stranger' to employees.
Again I have to say the possibility of a visual match between Mr Duvall and Prayer Man is rather striking. And I doubt he would have worn a suit while picking up shipments from a book depository. He was a truck driver, not a clerk.
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I asked if you tried to eliminate other possibilities.
For instance: De-interlacing along with Inverse telecining.
After that, stabilizing five consecutive frames and then creating a back/forth loop to compare Lovelady's characteristic movements with other objects within the same five frames.
Of course I studied the frames long and hard, Mr Davidson, looking to see if this curious phenemenon of
------------double head
------------the second at higher elevation and variable relative position
------------across multiple frames
attached itself to anyone other than the person to whom an impossible 'shadow' had attached itself.
It didn't-----------and still doesn't! It is unique to the uniquely magic-shadowed Mr Lovelady:
(https://i.imgur.com/Eu16W0v.gif)
From memory, my initial re-entry into this foray was the video posting of the cop stepping out of the shadow with a vertical shadow across his back and horizontal across his helmet.
I did not say anything about how far he was from the west wall or what time it was.
You mean this?
(https://s5.gifyu.com/images/STEPS1.gif)
A cop on the landing in a completely different location to Mr Lovelady here?
(https://i.imgur.com/S2Ijb3E.jpg)
When I asked you to get back and illuminate us as to whether you felt this illustrated anything specific... crickets. Giving false hope to those determined to explain away the 'shadow' down Mr Lovelady as a natural shadow.
In fact, I have not stated an opinion on either the shadow or the double-head since then.
I have supplied examples for others if they wanted to form their own opinions.
You seem to have forgotten my railing gif that clearly showed which side the black hatted lady was on.
Indeed I do------------and, if you were unhappy with Mr Mytton's misuse of that GIF, you hid it well!
Are there other sources of light within that alcove?
A ceiling light that has no bearing whatsoever on this issue:
(https://i.imgur.com/nNf4top.jpg)
Mr Davidson, as I have stated multiple times here, I wonder at your visual archive and your facility with images. But I have to ask: how can you still not have developed a view as to whether the 'shadow' down Mr Lovelady is natural or not?
Thumb1:
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(https://i.imgur.com/Eu16W0v.gif)
How many Wiegman frames are there with double heads and the side wall in focus?
(https://s4.gifyu.com/images/Blur.gif)
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You're four months early.... featuring "some guy" who was unknown until circa 2009, born in 1931, died in 2018, offered no verifiable proof of his claims,
and who also claimed he saw what he imagined was a "railroad worker," disembark from a black car, (or for that matter, the "railroad worker or Mr. Duvall's commercial vehicle) not captured in any known still or moving image, and walk on the grassy knoll, (or whatever) with what might have been a rifle concealed in a leg of the coveralls he was attired in. Not only are the black car, the railroad worker, his sighting of Oswald, and his textbook delivery vehicle unverified, Duvall's presence is unmentioned in any witness account.
Why not proclaim you've achieved your goal in your next post, and just call it a day?
Out of consideration for readers who could be doing something else (like scooping up and weighing their navel lint) instead of wading through tens of future pages of this thread, I thought it would be considerate to get these insurmountable challenges to the potential of this thread informing anyone of anything, out of the way sooner rather than later.
Thank you, Tom+
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How many Wiegman frames are there with double heads and the side wall in focus?
(https://s4.gifyu.com/images/Blur.gif)
The distinctive 'double head at double elevation' phenomenon does not appear in the Lovelady@LowerElevation frames, Mr Davidson, so I'm not sure why you are posting one of them here. (His head in the out-of-focus frame you have posted is being stretched btw--------different thing altogether, and not relevant!)
Now, turning to the Lovelady@UpperElevation frames...
At a conservative estimate, the following four frames show the double head and the side wall in (some) focus:
(https://i.imgur.com/Ooc8bZK.gif) (https://i.imgur.com/PjQs0XS.gif)
It is possible that, in one or two of the even sharper frames elsewhere in this Lovelady@UpperElevation sequence, Mr Oswald's features were evident enough to merit targeting for obscuring (as was the case for the entire Lovelady@LowerElevation sequence). But------------due to the apparent movement of Mr Oswald's head-------------I'm not quite convinced this would have been necessary.
I must reiterate the key point here: the distinctive 'double head at double elevation' phenomenon attaches itself uniquely to Mr Lovelady. Lots of blur, image-stretching, etc. elsewhere, but only Mr Lovelady manages to get a second head with a will of its own across multiple frames. And that would be the same Mr Lovelady who uniquely manages to attract an impossible shadow to his body--------------an impossible shadow that has the remarkable property that it can get in front of a car aerial!
(https://i.imgur.com/gjjNjfN.gif)
Coincidences? Not a chance! Thumb1:
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Thank you, Tom+
There you go, Mr Scully----------another pat on the head from a rabid LNer-------------and another item for the folder marked 'People Praising Moi'. Maybe one day Mr O'Blazney will even write a Book in Which you are (~gasp~) Cited! :P
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There you go, Mr Scully----------another pat on the head from a rabid LNer-------------and another item for the folder marked 'People Praising Moi'. Maybe one day Mr O'Blazney will even write a Book in Which you are (~gasp~) Cited! :P
Funny seeing a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist call a so-called Lone Nutter "rabid".
-- MWT ;)
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Funny seeing a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist call a so-called Lone Nutter "rabid".
-- MWT ;)
"I, Mr Thomas Graves, have a rational and straightforward explanation for the dark vertical strip down Lovelady's side in the Wiegman film. Here it is: _________________________"
Thumb1:
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...
4. Mr DuVall claimed to have been sitting on the front steps for the motorcade and to have noticed the black car when JFK "came down Main to turn right". You say there is no still or moving image of this event. Can you kindly point us to the still and/or moving images taken of the front of the Depository when JFK was on Main Street about to turn right? Thumb1:
...
Mr Howard Brennan spoke of a strangely parked Oldsmobile by the TSBD just before the assassination, which had disappeared when the assassination was over. Does anyone here know if he ever mentioned what color that car was?
Thumb1:
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The distinctive 'double head at double elevation' phenomenon does not appear in the Lovelady@LowerElevation frames, Mr Davidson, so I'm not sure why you are posting one of them here. (His head in the out-of-focus frame you have posted is being stretched btw--------different thing altogether, and not relevant!)
Dormon had a lot of camera movement as she was filming.
Is this double image another instance of "stretching" while the rest of the frame blurs?
(https://s4.gifyu.com/images/Dormon.gif)
The "in-focus" frame contains no double image.
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Mr Howard Brennan spoke of a strangely parked Oldsmobile by the TSBD just before the assassination, which had disappeared when the assassination was over. Does anyone here know if he ever mentioned what color that car was?
Thumb1:
It's wonderful that you trust Mr Brennan to identify an Oldsmobile because Brennan also identified Oswald with a rifle at the 6th floor sniper's nest window at the exact time of the assassination, you know the window with the 3 shells and on the same floor was Oswald's hidden rifle.
JohnM
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It's wonderful that you trust Mr Brennan to identify an Oldsmobile because Brennan also identified Oswald with a rifle at the 6th floor sniper's nest window at the exact time of the assassination, you know the window with the 3 shells and on the same floor was Oswald's hidden rifle.
JohnM
John,
I believe that old Oldsmobile was still there several minutes (if not hours) after the assassination.
It's the one near the police motorcycle that people were standing around, listening to its radio, iirc.
-- MWT ;)
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The distinctive 'double head at double elevation' phenomenon does not appear in the Lovelady@LowerElevation frames, Mr Davidson, so I'm not sure why you are posting one of them here. (His head in the out-of-focus frame you have posted is being stretched btw--------different thing altogether, and not relevant!)
Now, turning to the Lovelady@UpperElevation frames...
At a conservative estimate, the following four frames show the double head and the side wall in (some) focus:
(https://i.imgur.com/Ooc8bZK.gif) (https://i.imgur.com/PjQs0XS.gif)
It is possible that, in one or two of the even sharper frames elsewhere in this Lovelady@UpperElevation sequence, Mr Oswald's features were evident enough to merit targeting for obscuring (as was the case for the entire Lovelady@LowerElevation sequence). But------------due to the apparent movement of Mr Oswald's head-------------I'm not quite convinced this would have been necessary.
I must reiterate the key point here: the distinctive 'double head at double elevation' phenomenon attaches itself uniquely to Mr Lovelady. Lots of blur, image-stretching, etc. elsewhere, but only Mr Lovelady manages to get a second head with a will of its own across multiple frames. And that would be the same Mr Lovelady who uniquely manages to attract an impossible shadow to his body--------------an impossible shadow that has the remarkable property that it can get in front of a car aerial!
Coincidences? Not a chance!
Mister Ford,
It's fascinating that your "Oswald" and Lovelady have equally bald heads!
-- MWT ;)
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Dormon had a lot of camera movement as she was filming.
Is this double image another instance of "stretching" while the rest of the frame blurs?
(https://s4.gifyu.com/images/Dormon.gif)
The "in-focus" frame contains no double image.
Sorry, Mr Davidson, not interested in veering off to Geektown with you on this. If you have an argument you wish to develop, post it.
And if you find someone other than Mr Lovelady in those Wiegman frames with a second head @ higher elevation across multiple frames, let me know!
And if you finally feel in a position to state the blindingly obvious about this image, namely: that Mr Lovelady is nowhere near the shadow line------------------
(https://i.imgur.com/W3jc3Ta.jpg)
----------------then by all means feel free to state the blindingly obvious! Thumb1:
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Mister Ford,
It's fascinating that your "Oswald" and Lovelady have equally bald heads!
-- MWT ;)
Really, Mr Graves?
(https://i.imgur.com/9NygGKe.jpg)
What's truly fascinating is that you still can't explain how natural shadow could possibly be falling on Mr Lovelady when he's standing here:
(https://i.imgur.com/W3jc3Ta.jpg)
Oh dear, oh dear... :-\
-
Really, Mr Graves?
(https://i.imgur.com/9NygGKe.jpg)
What's truly fascinating is that you still can't explain how natural shadow could possibly be falling on Mr Lovelady when he's standing here:
(https://i.imgur.com/W3jc3Ta.jpg)
Oh dear, oh dear... :-\
Oh My God!
Now it looks like a three-faced Janus!
-- MWT ;)
-
Oh My God!
Now it looks like a three-faced Janus!
-- MWT ;)
A predictably silly reply from Mr Graves ::)
What will he do next? Pivot to Ms Calvery perhaps?
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A predictably silly reply from Mr Graves ::)
What will he do next? Pivot to Ms Calvery perhaps?
Mister Ford,
What, you don't see three "distinct faces" in the frame on the left?
They were really "packed in like sardines" on those steps, weren't they!
-- MWT ;)
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Mister Ford,
What, you don't see three "distinct faces" in the frame on the left?
Nope, look more closely. Two heads, one of which belongs to Mr Oswald!
He's there across multiple frames:
(https://i.imgur.com/8lepYz3.jpg)
Thumb1:
They were really "packed in like sardines" on those steps, weren't they!
On that side of the doorway? Not really. Ample room for Mr Oswald to be there. But nice try! Thumb1:
Do let us know, Mr Graves, when you can explain the shadow down Mr Lovelady. You haven't done terribly well so far...
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Nope, look more closely. Two heads, one of which belongs to Mr Oswald!
He's there across multiple frames:
(https://i.imgur.com/8lepYz3.jpg)
Thumb1:
On that side of the doorway? Not really. Ample room for Mr Oswald to be there. But nice try! Thumb1:
Do let us know, Mr Graves, when you can explain the shadow down Mr Lovelady. You haven't done terribly well so far...
Mister Ford,
There are three "heads" due to the motion blur.
Who could that third person possibly "be"?
-- MWT ;)
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Mister Ford,
There are three "heads" due to the motion blur.
Who could that third person possibly "be"?
-- MWT ;)
Look at the frames I posted, Mr Graves. This second head at different elevation across multiple frames phenomenon is unique to Mr Lovelady, who is doubly unique in attracting an impossible shadow to his side. You know, the shadow you can't explain! Thumb1:
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Mister Ford,
It's fascinating that your "Oswald" and Lovelady have equally bald heads!
-- MWT ;)
Thumb1:
(https://i.postimg.cc/m2dy1tZV/Ozy-balding-love-full-sunlight.jpg)
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/1PIGU0cftC2pG/giphy.gif)
JohnM
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Mr Graves asked for OswaldHair, and hates that he's now been shown some! :D
(https://i.imgur.com/7l0S45I.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/4qFeozh.jpg)
Mr Graves joins Mr Mytton in being unable to put natural shadow down Mr Lovelady here:
(https://i.imgur.com/F8xvmxh.jpg)
And Mr Mytton (though he doesn't understand this yet) has just done splendid work in blocking up any conceivable alternative escape routes for Team Keep LHO Away From The Doorway! :D
-
Mr Howard Brennan spoke of a strangely parked Oldsmobile by the TSBD just before the assassination, which had disappeared when the assassination was over. Does anyone here know if he ever mentioned what color that car was?
Thumb1:
Now! It is a dreadful shame that Mr Ken DuVall's 2009 Oral History interview with the Sixth Floor Museum is not available online. We only have summaries to work from.
I would be very interested in hearing from anyone who might have actually watched the interview in the Museum! Thumb1:
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And if you find someone other than Mr Lovelady in those Wiegman frames with a second head @ higher elevation across multiple frames, let me know!
The two heads occur in camera shaken/motion blur frames.
Show a frame consisting of two heads without those characteristics.
Attach it (side x side) with a nice clear frame so others can use the brick detail from the west wall for comparison purposes.
Is it the translucent antenna which is causing the higher double/triple heads?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49196661441_90eace7262_o.png)
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(https://s4.gifyu.com/images/Shake.gif)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49196661441_90eace7262_o.png)
(https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/eureka1.jpg)
Thanks for these two photos which led me to the solution to Ford's double head problem, there is indeed two heads which are motion blur but this motion blur seems to be independent of everybody else, so what's happening?
Since we know in the next second or two Lovelady will appear to be dramatically lower, so obviously in the frames animated above, what we are looking at are the initial movements of Lovelady bending forward and hence he is moving independently of everyone else and this head motion is only accentuated by Wiegman's erratic camera panning.
(https://i.postimg.cc/bYxmdPRV/love-landingg.gif)
For example, in the following Zapruder frame we see Clint Hill as clear but the bike helmet has a "double head" and the reason is what's moving relative to Zapruder's camera. Zapruder is panning at about the same speed as Hill is running hence his stable image whereas the bike is changing speed and causing independent "double head", all the objects in the red boxes show varying amounts of motion blur because everything is moving at a different speed or not at all, relative to what was captured by Zapruder's camera.
(https://i.ibb.co/yRW15S3/zapruder-motion-blur2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/K0GyPwB/zapruder-motion-blur1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/r3n9fg7/zapruder-motion-blur3.jpg)
JohnM
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The two heads occur in camera shaken/motion blur frames.
Show a frame consisting of two heads without those characteristics.
Attach it (side x side) with a nice clear frame so others can use the brick detail from the west wall for comparison purposes.
I can only take it from this, Mr Davidson, that you can't find this phenomenon attaching itself to anyone else in those Wiegman frames. Noted!
Now! I have already posted frames where the brickwork is somewhat in focus and the second head in evidence------------------and have surmised that whoever added shadow may (for the Lovelady@UpperElevation frames) have restricted themselves to shadowing out Mr Oswald's head only in the sharpest frames, where its clarity would have caused trouble.
Remember the context here------------there is an impossible shadow down Mr Lovelady's side. It is obscuring Mr Oswald's shoulders (and maybe more). Were this shadow not there, we would not even be having this debate, for it would be abundantly evident that a second man (in a white tshirt) is standing just behind Mr Lovelady. That's the whole point of the shadow!
Thankfully, however, decent scans of Lovelady@LowerElevation show that there is indeed someone still standing there (in front of Mr Frazier, who can be made out in right corner of image)-------------
(https://i.imgur.com/hak7RSb.gif)
--------------and that the second head is not the phantom you are trying so very hard to make it. Thumb1:
Is it the translucent antenna which is causing the higher double/triple heads?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49196661441_90eace7262_o.png)
No. And you seriously need to get out of the habit of trying to prove apples with oranges! Thumb1:
-
(https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/eureka1.jpg)
Thanks for these two photos which led me to the solution to Ford's double head problem, there is indeed two heads which are motion blur but this motion blur seems to be independent of everybody else, so what's happening?
Mr Mytton's Nineteenth 'Eureka' Moment! :D :D :D
What's happening, Mr Mytton, is that the two heads are not motion blur-------------they are two different heads, one of which belongs to the person you have been incorrectly placing up at a certain sixth floor window! Thumb1:
Since we know in the next second or two Lovelady will appear to be dramatically lower, so obviously in the frames animated above, what we are looking at are the initial movements of Lovelady bending forward (~Snip~)
Ah yes, the Shoelaces Theory raises its clownish head again! All because you can't bear the fact that Mr Lovelady is so patently on the steps here:
(https://i.imgur.com/EVvNETA.jpg)
:D
And yet we see--------------according to your own method, Mr Mytton----------------that the area right behind Mr Lovelady and just west and in front of Mr Frazier is... oh, what's the phrase I'm looking for here?... ah yes: brimming with detail all of its own!
(https://i.imgur.com/hak7RSb.gif)
That's because the owner of the second head is still standing there on the landing.
You must be really kicking yourself now! :D
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https://twitter.com/bzabby/status/1202048810052149251
(http://jfkforum.com/images/PrayermanFordLint.jpg)
:D
There are only two types of research topic in Mr Scully's book:
Valid Research Topic: One that gives moi an opportunity to accrue glory on account of 'My Gift'.
Invalid Research Topic: Everything else.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/TSBDfordKenDuvall_1963Directory.jpg)
Wife's name included in his obituary was "Ina".
Truckers, certainly driving local routes, avoid making stops close to noon due to likelihood dock crews are on lunch break, and know from dispatch to anticipate and avoid "hurdles" such as prepublished parade routes.
Unless the trucker plans on staying to see the parade, duh!
-
Appreciate the prompt response there, Mr. Ford, Thank You.
Not to belabour the issue any further, so just a brief follow up...
Aside from your apt explanation (Reply 46), relative to any reflection(s) captured on the camera lense off the glass entrance doors being dark, Any chance of the illuminating light from flashbulb activity in and around those steps impacting your conclusion otherwise? I'm not denying the 2nd head, just offering up what may explain it away. Again, no harm, no foul with any insights/explanation you care to offer to address the potential of flashbulb activity creating a 2nd head reflecting off the glass entrance doors.
Last thought before venturing back here on Thursday, Any chance the unnatural shadow running down Lovelady's right-side has something to do with Bill Shelley?
He is on Lovelady's left-side in Altgens, but was he on the opposite side in Wiegman? (lest we forget both film shot in tandem at different angles). Due to the close proximity of this shooting sequence at different angles, Was Shelley removed to avoid any conflict with his placement in Altgens? None of us can be on the left side or right side all at once.
We know the wrongly accused was out front with them, because no one six stories up or in the 2nd floor lunchroom had no way of knowing precisely where Bill Shelley viewed the P. Parade ( tucked way back in the inner landing at the front door entrance, completely out of view of either of those places.)
The wrongly accused knew Bill Shelley's whereabouts precisely.
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Appreciate the prompt response there, Mr. Ford, Thank You.
Not to belabour the issue any further, so just a brief follow up...
Aside from your apt explanation (Reply 46), relative to any reflection(s) captured on the camera lense off the glass entrance doors being dark, Any chance of the illuminating light from flashbulb activity in and around those steps impacting your conclusion otherwise? I'm not denying the 2nd head, just offering up what may explain it away. Again, no harm, no foul with any insights/explanation you care to offer to address the potential of flashbulb activity creating a 2nd head reflecting off the glass entrance doors.
Thanks for this suggestion, Mr Ford. Tbh I can't see how even a flashbulb----------------and actually it would need to be a continuous series of flashbulbs-----------------would show up the reflection of the back of a man's head in this way?
Last thought before venturing back here on Thursday, Any chance the unnatural shadow running down Lovelady's right-side has something to do with Bill Shelley?
He is on Lovelady's left-side in Altgens,
We don't know that this is Mr Shelley, and have very good reason IMO to doubt it...
(https://i.imgur.com/nkG4zcg.gif) (https://i.imgur.com/43lBPx7.gif)
Are you suggesting that LHO=PrayerMan and Mr Shelley is standing right beside him------------which was considered so great a problem that Mr Shelley had to be eliminated from Wiegman?
If that's the case, then it surely seems counterintuitive that they would leave Mr Oswald's presence discernible (albeit barely) and completely obliterate Mr Shelley's?
Thumb1:
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Thanks for this suggestion, Mr Ford. Tbh I can't see how even a flashbulb----------------and actually it would need to be a continuous series of flashbulbs-----------------would show up the reflection of the back of a man's head in this way?
We don't know that this is Mr Shelley, and have very good reason IMO to doubt it...
(https://i.imgur.com/nkG4zcg.gif) (https://i.imgur.com/43lBPx7.gif)
Are you suggesting that LHO=PrayerMan and Mr Shelley is standing right beside him------------which was considered so great a problem that Mr Shelley had to be eliminated from Wiegman?
If that's the case, then it surely seems counterintuitive that they would leave Mr Oswald's presence discernible (albeit barely) and completely obliterate Mr Shelley's?
Thumb1:
This is totally embarrassing to view, in my view. What's wrong with you? Do you also believe Judyth Baker's Tall Tales, Mssr. Ford? Why don't YOU write a friggin' book about all of this? Self-published, bien sur !!
-
..... Self-published, bien sur !!
Je fond quand tu parles ....
L'auteur nous apprend qu'on peut même utiliser la peluche de son nombril!
-
Je fond quand tu parles ....
L'auteur nous apprend qu'on peut même utiliser la peluche de son nombril!
Jamais ete' sur les forums de JFK francais, Tom?
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This is totally embarrassing to view, in my view. What's wrong with you? Do you also believe Judyth Baker's Tall Tales, Mssr. Ford? Why don't YOU write a friggin' book about all of this? Self-published, bien sur !!
"I, Mr Mark Oblazney, have a rational and straightforward explanation for the dark vertical strip down Lovelady's side in the Wiegman film. Here it is: _________________________"
(https://i.imgur.com/wePEpmy.jpg)
Go on, Mr Oblazney, give us all a laugh! Thumb1:
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Mark, Je n'ai pas non plus ....
"I, Mr Thomas Scully, have found the solution to why there is a dark vertical strip down Lovelady's side in the Wiegman film. It's in a 1936 newpaper article I found."
(https://i.imgur.com/wePEpmy.jpg)
-
:D
So... you have absolutely no explanation for the 'shadow' down Mr Billy Lovelady in the Wiegman film, Mr Oblazney.
(https://i.imgur.com/MpPBjai.jpg)
Thanks for confirming! Thumb1:
Oh, don't confirm that with me, Mssr, Ford. Confirm that with Mssr. Davidson. He's miles above your 'pay level'. Too bad Jack White's dead (a proud 'senior member' of of ralph cinque's OIC !!), then he could tell you all about it. Hey, ask Judyth Baker and Oliver Stone about this situation........ they'll give you the 'real deal', just like Jabba Jim Fetzer. Birds of a feather Fetzer together+
And for the record,
-
Oh, don't confirm that with me, Mssr, Ford. Confirm that with Mssr. Davidson. He's miles above your 'pay level'.
:D
Mr Davidson has never claimed, let alone demonstrated, that the 'shadow' down Mr Lovelady here----------------
(https://i.imgur.com/MpPBjai.jpg)
---------------is a natural shadow. So you don't get out of this little quandary by hiding behind him!
So! Are you claiming that Mr Lovelady is caught by natural shadow in the above image? Yes or no, Mr Oblazney?
Thumb1:
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The world according to Team Keep LHO Away From The Front Entrance...
(https://i.imgur.com/fuUD844.jpg)
:D
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What's happening, Mr Mytton, is that the two heads are not motion blur-------------they are two different heads, one of which belongs to the person you have been incorrectly placing up at a certain sixth floor window! Thumb1:
Wrong! Lovelady is independently in the process of bending down and we are seeing Lovelady's motion blurred image being captured in the opposite direction to the movement of the camera.
(https://i.postimg.cc/bYxmdPRV/love-landingg.gif)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vT2KjZTJ/lovelady-shadow.gif)
Lovelady's "second head" in each instance is proportionally positioned compared to the speed and panning direction of Wiegman's camera.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kMtQcNrr/lovemove5.gif)
(https://i.postimg.cc/nzJvhkGb/lovemove7.gif)
(https://i.postimg.cc/SKdk5QR0/lovemove9.gif)
(https://i.postimg.cc/SRZmB25w/lovemove3.gif)
(https://i.postimg.cc/d3QqNmW2/lovemove1.gif)
LOVELADY'S TWO HEAD'S BS:
(https://i.postimg.cc/d0b1ty5d/0UsIadV.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/yRW15S3/zapruder-motion-blur2.jpg)
JohnM
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Still can't explain the 'shadow' down Mr Lovelady, eh, Mr Scully?
(https://i.imgur.com/Fo82bLO.jpg)
Oh dear. It seems the great Gift you have been Given (i.e. using the word-search function on archives) has no useful application here... Explains your hostility! :D
and what, pray tell, mssr. 'prayerdude', explains your cognitive dissonance? anybody but oswald. i remember having a nice chat with mssr. bugliosi back in the day. that, and other conversations changed my mind, for i was almost like you. and then there was leo damore, whose book deprived ted kennedy of his mantle as president. and before that, lane and garrison, et. al. they polluted the minds of millions...... MILLIONS !!! mae didn't help, either. nor did sarah mcclendon, whose wheelchair i used to push into the white house for press conferences (they don't have press conferences anymore.....sigh+), passing notes to tim mccury from her. oh, those were the days !!. everything changed when W was illegally named 'the chief'. they wouldn't let me in then after that numbskull was erected, as i had an FBI file, et. al., but she bellowed "the president shall hear of this !!"....... then they let me in. did you know she was responsible for an 11 million-dollar makeover in order to have handicapped people accessible into the white house? (read: americans with disabilities act)
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and what, pray tell, mssr. 'prayerdude', explains your cognitive dissonance? anybody but oswald. i remember having a nice chat with mssr. bugliosi back in the day. that, and other conversations changed my mind, for i was almost like you. and then there was leo damore, whose book deprived ted kennedy of his mantle as president. and before that, lane and garrison, et. al. they polluted the minds of millions...... MILLIONS !!! mae didn't help, either. nor did sarah mcclendon, whose wheelchair i used to push into the white house for press conferences (they don't have press conferences anymore.....sigh+), passing notes to tim mccury from her. oh, those were the days !!. everything changed when W was illegally named 'the chief'. they wouldn't let me in then after that numbskull was erected, as i had an FBI file, et. al., but she bellowed "the president shall hear of this !!"....... then they let me in. did you know she was responsible for an 11 million-dollar makeover in order to have handicapped people accessible into the white house? (read: americans with disabilities act)
No comment needed.
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I'm sorry, Mr Ford, but I honestly fail to see how this could possibly be a reflection in the glass door:
(https://i.imgur.com/ITl3PDa.jpg)
Wonderful that Mr DuVall's daughter got back to you! Thumb1:
*Yes, I agree, Mr. Ford, what a fine lady and seemingly a remarkable human being as well.
Re. logo patch: the position of Prayer Man's hand(s) at his chest does not rule out a patch being there.
*Where that makes sense in that particular filming sequence, note his right hand in this sequence ---->
https://i0.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Wiegman_Analysis_1.jpg?resize=228%2C531
His breast pocket is fully exposed yet void of the sewing handiwork of Mr. DuVall's loving wife. There is no accompanying company logo patch or his name stitched onto Prayer Man's shirt.
Re. color of shirt: we cannot say that Prayer Man's shirt is dark (the shirt Mr Oswald wore to work that day was light reddish btw!). The company's shirt may have been off-white, which could well show up in the shade as Prayer Man's. Alternatively, it could be that Mr DuVall didn't wear that shirt to work that day (we don't know how relaxed company policy was in that regard).
*There is a major contrast in difference between the colour white, even off-white, with the actual shirt colour worn by the wrongly accused (the only person & position not shared in CE 1381 (for good reason given what and who that specific position would have revealed). Brb out for a few with Fido, will respond to remainder of your post when we return from his nature romp)
Just to be clear, Mr Ford--------------------I am not claiming that Mr DuVall is Prayer Man, but I am not willing just yet to rule him out as a candidate. Just as I am not willing fully to rule out Mr Oswald either! Thumb1:
Out of interest, do you believe Mr DuVall was a liar and was not actually in the front entrance at the time of the motorcade?
-
Just to be clear, Mr Ford--------------------I am not claiming that Mr DuVall is Prayer Man, but I am not willing just yet to rule him out as a candidate. Just as I am not willing fully to rule out Mr Oswald either! Thumb1:
Out of interest, do you believe Mr DuVall was a liar and was not actually in the front entrance at the time of the motorcade?,
*Continuation...
Appreciate your clarification, Thank You. In respect to your decision to not ruling Mr. DuVall out just yet that's your prerogative sir. Please be mindful though that I have a photo of Mr. DuVall at his daughter's wedding where he is taller than the groom & the groom:s father (both taller than Prayer Man). Cheers @ not ruling out the wrongly accused as Prayer Man either. Guinness!!!!!
In respect to your last thought/question there...where I do understand some people will actually immerse themselves into major events, No, I don't believe Mr. DuVall is one of them. I believe after unloading at the docks in the rear of the TSBD, he ventured upstairs to purchase a soft-drink to quench his thirst, and made a decision to call his supervisor for permission to eat his lunch and await the P. Parade. No harm, no foul a reasonable thing to do.
Moving along now, Mr. Ford, to date, Has anyone managed to reasonably explain away that rather telling shadow running down Mr. Lovelady:s right side?
-
Last thought today, Mr. Ford, referencing the bottom photo in your response (Reply 70, above), Could either of the two gentlemen in that photograph on the far left (positions 2 & 3 viewing left to right potentially be delivery drivers)?
I'll try to follow up on this by enhancing the image w/zoom, but Em is giving me that look, so off here for now to complete some odds & ends today.
-
*Where that makes sense in that particular filming sequence, note his right hand in this sequence ---->
https://i0.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Wiegman_Analysis_1.jpg?resize=228%2C531
His breast pocket is fully exposed yet void of the sewing handiwork of Mr. DuVall's loving wife. There is no accompanying company logo patch or his name stitched onto Prayer Man's shirt.
What color was the logo patch?
Just to be clear here: I don't believe PrayerManInWiegman is necessarily the same person as PrayerManInDarnell. We have IMO good grounds in fact for believing PrayerManInWiegman to be Mr Bill Shelley! Thumb1:
*There is a major contrast in difference between the colour white, even off-white, with the actual shirt colour worn by the wrongly accused (the only person & position not shared in CE 1381 (for good reason given what and who that specific position would have revealed). Brb out for a few with Fido, will respond to remainder of your post when we return from his nature romp)
We don't know what color PrayerManInDarnell's shirt is. And we don't know for sure the exact tone of Mr DuVall's white work shirt (nor whether he was even wearing it that day)!
Hi to Fido btw! Thumb1:
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In respect to your decision to not ruling Mr. DuVall out just yet that's your prerogative sir. Please be mindful though that I have a photo of Mr. DuVall at his daughter's wedding where he is taller than the groom & the groom:s father (both taller than Prayer Man).
We don't know for sure how tall Prayer Man is---------------much depends on where exactly and how exactly he is standing! Thumb1:
In respect to your last thought/question there...where I do understand some people will actually immerse themselves into major events, No, I don't believe Mr. DuVall is one of them. I believe after unloading at the docks in the rear of the TSBD, he ventured upstairs to purchase a soft-drink to quench his thirst, and made a decision to call his supervisor for permission to eat his lunch and await the P. Parade. No harm, no foul a reasonable thing to do.
Thumb1:
But that means--------------if he's not PrayerManInDarnell----------------then he has to be somewhere in that doorway!
Moving along now, Mr. Ford, to date, Has anyone managed to reasonably explain away that rather telling shadow running down Mr. Lovelady:s right side?
No! :D
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Last thought today, Mr. Ford, referencing the bottom photo in your response (Reply 70, above), Could either of the two gentlemen in that photograph on the far left (positions 2 & 3 viewing left to right potentially be delivery drivers)?
Sure--------------and that's the kind of off-white I'm talking about potentially for Mr DuVall.
Funnily enough, there was a time when those two fellows were confidently identified by some folks as Mr Bill Shelley and Mr Roy Truly!
Thumb1:
-
What color was the logo patch?
The logo patch is white in colour w/kelly-green letters.
Just to be clear here: I don't believe PrayerManInWiegman is necessarily the same person as PrayerManInDarnell. We have IMO good grounds in fact for believing PrayerManInWiegman to be Mr Bill Shelley! Thumb1:
On the contrary, Mr. Ford, Prayer Man maintains the same position throughout several different filming sequences (Wiegman, Cook and Darnell). Note his bare arms are exposed in each of those sequences. Lest we forget, Mr. Shelley is dressed that afternoon in business attire w/a dark coloured tie.
There's a scene that afternoon where the trio of Shelley, Bonnie Ray Williams and Danny Garcia Arce climbed into a DPD cruiser Do you recall how Shelley was dressed?
Let's take a look ----->
There's a stark difference in the bare-armed Prayer Man in his non-tucked shirt and Shelley's full business dress attire.
-
Lest we forget, Mr. Shelley is dressed that afternoon in business attire w/a dark coloured tie.
There's a scene that afternoon where the trio of Shelley, Bonnie Ray Williams and Danny Garcia Arce climbed into a DPD cruiser Do you recall how Shelley was dressed?
[/b]
Let's take a look ----->
There's a stark difference in the bare-armed Prayer Man in his non-tucked shirt and Shelley's full business dress attire.
And a stark difference between Mr Shelley sans jacket and Mr Shelley in full business dress attire!
(https://i.imgur.com/J1T11Jl.gif)
I believe the white object in PrayerManInWiegman's right hand may be one of those disposable white coffee cups-------------he's knocking the last of the coffee back:
(https://i.imgur.com/QWP5Y3B.gif)
Mr Shelley's 11/22/63 affidavit states clearly that he ran out to the edge of the "park", where he ran into Ms Gloria Calvery. I believe we may even be seeing his discarded empty cup in Darnell, right beside said edge of the "park":
(https://i.imgur.com/N2YJpNs.jpg)
PrayerManInWiegman is not in the same position as PrayerManInDarnell by the way: the latter is at a higher elevation!
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And a stark difference between Mr Shelley sans jacket and Mr Shelley in full business dress attire!
(https://i.imgur.com/J1T11Jl.gif)
There is another possibility here, and it flows from something Mr Buell Frazier told the late Mr Gary Mack back in 2013:
"When I (G.M.) asked if Shelley usually wore a coat and tie to work Buell said no, he "dressed daily in slacks and sport shirts".
Easy to write this off as faulty memory, but Mr Frazier does seem pretty categorical here. Worth also mentioning that Mr Frazier's first thought seems to have been that Prayer Man was Mr Shelley.
Hmmm..... What if Mr Shelley 'dressed down' during a normal working day----------------and recall: he spent significant time up on the dusty sixth floor with the floor-laying crew the morning of 11/22/63-----------------but kept a suit & tie in his office for more formal business? Might he have spruced himself up before going down to City Hall?
Just a thought! Thumb1:
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I think this is Mr DuVall (right of picture):
(https://i.imgur.com/LtU6zHD.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/a3oRjBU.jpg)
Notice the (news?)paper sticking out of his breast pocket in Hughes.
I believe Darnell shows him with his arms folded and the (news?)paper (held in his hidden right hand) sticking out by his left side:
(https://i.imgur.com/QWxO37y.gif)
This means that there were no fewer than 3 Oswald lookalikes in that doorway!
1. Mr Billy Lovelady
2. Mr Kenneth Duvall
3. Mr Lee Harvey Oswald.
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And a stark difference between Mr Shelley sans jacket and Mr Shelley in full business dress attire!
(https://i.imgur.com/J1T11Jl.gif)
I believe the white object in PrayerManInWiegman's right hand may be one of those disposable white coffee cups-------------he's knocking the last of the coffee back:
(https://i.imgur.com/QWP5Y3B.gif)
Mr Shelley's 11/22/63 affidavit states clearly that he ran out to the edge of the "park", where he ran into Ms Gloria Calvery. I believe we may even be seeing his discarded empty cup in Darnell, right beside said edge of the "park":
(https://i.imgur.com/N2YJpNs.jpg)
PrayerManInWiegman is not in the same position as PrayerManInDarnell by the way: the latter is at a higher elevation!
Thumb1:
No...... you're wrong. It was an unknown gentleman taking pictures/movies of the motorcade going by. And again..... it WASN"T Oswald !!! How many times do I have to say it? Ozz was upstairs on the 6th floor KILLING THE PRESIDENT !!! Then he eluded everyone, went back to get his .38, shot Tippit and ended in up in a theatre that almost ended in another murder. I'm glad Ruby shot Oswald. I would have too, if given the chance. I used to doubt this. No more.
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No...... you're wrong. It was an unknown gentleman taking pictures/movies of the motorcade going by. And again..... it WASN"T Oswald !!! How many times do I have to say it? Ozz was upstairs on the 6th floor KILLING THE PRESIDENT !!! Then he eluded everyone, went back to get his .38, shot Tippit and ended in up in a theatre that almost ended in another murder. I'm glad Ruby shot Oswald. I would have too, if given the chance. I used to doubt this. No more.
Not so fast: Oswald, a patsy and a lousy shot, was given a lousy rifle and told to shoot downrange... but not hit anybody. Meanwhile, there were 42-ish* shooters scattered around the grassy knoll, all of whom made the opposite mistake.
Later @Tippit, Dirty Harvey was only attempting to fire warning shots at the officer, but again: lousy shot/lousy weapon.
At the movies, 'the man of the hour' (well, 45-ish minutes) attempted to surrender his weapon, explaining 'that's it, it's all over now... I can't hit anything with this thing'. [CLICK] 'See what I mean?'
*when adding up those claimed in conspiracy-monger pulp fiction.
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Not so fast: Oswald the patsy and a lousy shot, was given a lousy rifle and told to shoot but not hit anybody. Meanwhile, there were 42* shooters scattered around the grassy knoll, all of whom made the opposite mistake.
Later @Tippit, Dirty Harvey was only attempting to fire warning shots at the officer, but again: lousy shot/lousy weapon.
At the movies, the man of the hour (or so) attempted to surrender his weapon, explaining 'that's it, it's all over now... I can't hit anything with this thing'. [CLICK] 'See what I mean?'
*when adding up those claimed in conspiracy-monger pulp fiction
Sadly for you, your preferred narrative isn’t supported by the evidence any better than this one.
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Sadly for you, your preferred narrative isn’t supported by the evidence any better than this one.
OMG
-
(https://i.imgur.com/G8jm7Vy.gif) (https://i.imgur.com/yc2NIXP.jpg)
Thumb1:
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(https://i.imgur.com/RHteHa4.jpg)
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Mr Davidson has never claimed, let alone demonstrated, that the 'shadow' down Mr Lovelady here----------------
---------------is a natural shadow.
True.
The shadow on Lovelady could be natural, but somebody would have to be no more than one step down/somewhat overlapping torso with Lovelady, to cast it. (Lady in white, below and on the same side of railing as Lovelady is too low). imo
Since we can see Prayer Person in the shadows, I would expect to see the Shadow Caster too.
The gif represents the closest match to the Wiegman shadow that I have found.
(https://s5.gifyu.com/images/Shadow-Caster0377a38b547e8479.gif)
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49242966918_546d6046ae_o.png)
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Good morning!
A brief recap:
*Prayer Man remains in his same specific position, holding down that space throughout several different filming sequences (Wiegman, Cook and Darnell)
*In each of those filming sequences his shaggy shirt remains un-tucked, with his bare forearms fully exposed (contrary to the business attire of Bill Shelley).
*Note Prayer Man is still holding the same position he has maintained throughout those several different filming sequences, even after Bill Shelley has left the front entrance.
Brb...
Continuation...now turning our attention to Mr. DuVall, let's take the following into consider: In his Sixth Floor Museum interview shares a key detail he observes from his vantage point while viewing the P. Parade about seeing a black vehicle parked aside the TSBD on his left, his words not mine. Mr. DuVall or anyone else for that matter holding down Prayer Man's position --within the inward enclosure of the front entrance--couldn't see through concrete, let alone specifically describe the colour(s) of any vehicles alongside of the building on Houston Street.
Brb...
Prayer Man was framed. The wrongly accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Good morning!
A brief recap:
*Prayer Man remains in his same specific position, holding down that space throughout several different filming sequences (Wiegman, Cook and Darnell)
Prayer Man is not in the Cook film!
*In each of those filming sequences his shaggy shirt remains un-tucked, with his bare forearms fully exposed (contrary to the business attire of Bill Shelley).
You cannot possibly make out such a detail in the Wiegman film! And it is not a given that Mr Shelley was wearing business attire at the time of the assassination! (Mr Frazier suggests otherwise.)
*Note Prayer Man is still holding the same position he has maintained throughout those several different filming sequences, even after Bill Shelley has left the front entrance.
Not necessarily. If one compares the right elbow from Wiegman to Darnell, one finds that this is not a person in the "same specific position". PrayerManInDarnell may not even have his hands in the 'prayer' position at all------------his arms may be folded!
Continuation...now turning our attention to Mr. DuVall, let's take the following into consider:
Well, how about we start here------------------
(https://i.imgur.com/uXaRzU9.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/LW6eol8.gif)
------------------and go from that to here!-------------------
(https://i.imgur.com/8lOUH9I.jpg)
In his Sixth Floor Museum interview shares a key detail he observes from his vantage point while viewing the P. Parade about seeing a black vehicle parked aside the TSBD on his left, his words not mine. Mr. DuVall or anyone else for that matter holding down Prayer Man's position --within the inward enclosure of the front entrance--couldn't see through concrete, let alone specifically describe the colour(s) of any vehicles alongside of the building on Houston Street.
But he said he was sitting on the third step when JFK passed. I am suggesting that he was doing just that, and after the shooting stood up and took up a spot very close to where Mr Shelley had been standing. And that Darnell (not Wiegman!) shows him there, arms folded and his newspaper giving the illusion of his left arm (and hence that he is the same 'Prayer Man' we have just seen in Wiegman):
(https://i.imgur.com/GttMbRk.gif)
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But he said he was sitting on the third step when JFK passed. I am suggesting that he was doing just that, and after the shooting stood up and took up a spot very close to where Mr Shelley had been standing. And that Darnell (not Wiegman!) shows him there, arms folded and his newspaper giving the illusion of his left arm (and hence that he is the same 'Prayer Man' we have just seen in Wiegman):
Do you honestly believe anyone in a sitting position could see around and/or over everyone else?
Do you honestly believe your suggestion in Weigman of a throwaway Styrofoam coffee cup morphs into a newspaper?
Is Prayer Man sitting?
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But he said he was sitting on the third step when JFK passed. I am suggesting that he was doing just that, and after the shooting stood up and took up a spot very close to where Mr Shelley had been standing. And that Darnell (not Wiegman!) shows him there, arms folded and his newspaper giving the illusion of his left arm (and hence that he is the same 'Prayer Man' we have just seen in Wiegman):
Do you honestly believe anyone in a sitting position could see around and/or over everyone else?
Who exactly would he have needed to see around/over? The west side of the steps weren't exactly crowded!
Do you honestly believe your suggestion in Weigman of a throwaway Styrofoam coffee cup morphs into a newspaper?
Do you honestly believe that is my suggestion?
Here is what I'm actually proposing:
Wiegman: PrayerMan = Mr Shelley with cup
Darnell: PrayerMan = Mr DuVall with newspaper
Thumb1:
Is Prayer Man sitting?
No-----------but the person who is about to become PrayerMan in Darnell may be sitting in Wiegman, even as the person who is PrayerMan in Wiegman is standing in Wiegman but is about to leave the steps and run into Ms Calvery at the edge of the 'park'!
Now! Question for you, Mr Ford:
If Prayer Man in Wiegman is Mr Oswald, why on earth would the cover-up investigators go to the trouble of putting a dark shadow down Mr Lovelady?
Another Question for you!
Do you accept that this is Mr DuVall in the Hughes film?
(https://i.imgur.com/xdG4lG4.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/sFk6hwL.gif)
Finally! Do you really think the following identification can be ruled out?
(https://i.imgur.com/Bxs0YDH.jpg)
Think about it: if Mr DuVall looks strikingly like Mr Oswald, then what grounds have you for arguing that PrayerManInDarnell, whom you believe looks like Mr Oswald, looks nothing like Mr DuVall?
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Now, friends!
I think it's safe to say that the performance of Team Keep LHO Away From That Entrance has been absolutely pitiful, so... I'm going to offer them some charitable assistance here! Thumb1:
If I were a member of Team Keep LHO Away From That Entrance, here's what I would do. I would cut my losses and swallow my pride and accept the plain reality that the shadow down Mr Lovelady in Wiegman is fake:
(https://i.imgur.com/vFORVfQ.jpg)
Then! I would take a long hard look at the individual in Hughes whom the insufferable Mr Alan Ford (i.e. yours truly!) has identified as Mr Kenneth DuVall--------------------
(https://i.imgur.com/2BiDKKv.jpg)
--------------------and note the single most striking thing about him:
His resemblance to Mr Oswald.
Then! I would offer the following bold speculation:
"What if the reason for the shadow down Lovelady in Wiegman is not LHO but DuVall?"
???
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Show the rest of us reading along here sir where you actually see someone sitting on the third step....
You mean in Wiegman? How can I show Mr DuVall in Wiegman if the impossible shadow starting halfway across Mr Lovelady has blackened out the area where Mr DuVall would be?
On the contrary sir, Didn't you say people moved, specifically Shelley who in your narrative was drinking from a Styrofoam coffee cup....Wouldn't that place him behind and to the right of Lovelady? Please help us help you make up your mind sir.
No, Mr Ford, you're just confused! My consistent position is that Mr Shelley is not the man you think is Mr Shelley in Altgens, and that Mr Shelley is PrayerManInWiegman------------and nowhere to be seen in Darnell. As for the man you think is Mr Shelley in Altgens, he's still there in Wiegman-----------removing the basis of your suggestion as to why a fake shadow was put down Mr Lovelady! Thumb1:
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You mean in Wiegman? How can I show Mr DuVall in Wiegman if the impossible shadow starting halfway across Mr Lovelady has blackened out the area where Mr DuVall would be?
And let us guess sir, you want the rest of us to believe someone you yourself stated was sitting down required a loooong vertical shadow running downward along Lovelady from his head down to his toes?
To conceal someone seated?
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No, Mr Ford, you're just confused! My consistent position is that Mr Shelley is not the man you think is Mr Shelley in Altgens, and that Mr Shelley is PrayerManInWiegman------------and nowhere to be seen in Darnell. As for the man you think is Mr Shelley in Altgens, he's still there in Wiegman-----------removing the basis of your suggestion as to why a fake shadow was put down Mr Lovelady! Thumb1:
So, once again sir, IF he isn"t Shelley, enlighten us with a specific name. Fair enough? What say ye?
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And let us guess sir, you want the rest of us to believe someone you yourself stated was sitting down required a loooong vertical shadow running downward along Lovelady from his head down to his toes?
They couldn't black out only a segment of Mr Lovelady's side-------------------at least not if they wanted this to look like a natural shadow! Thumb1:
To conceal someone seated?
We only know that Mr DuVall claimed to have been seated, but not the exact timestamp he put on this. Did he stand up (like Mr Lovelady) as JFK was turning onto Elm Street? Did he stand up in response to the sound of gunfire? We need more information from his Sixth Floor Museum interview!
Here's what Hughes shows of the doorway just as the limo is turning onto Elm:
(https://i.imgur.com/ce0N7lc.gif)
Here's what Towner shows a few seconds later as the limo is actually passing the building:
(https://i.imgur.com/V12zdWm.gif)
Could this be showing Mr Duvall (left of image, ignore arrow) waving a newspaper in enthusiasm as JFK passes?
If that's not Mr Duvall next to Mr Carl Edward Jones, then who do you think it might be?
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No, Mr Ford, you're just confused! My consistent position is that Mr Shelley is not the man you think is Mr Shelley in Altgens, and that Mr Shelley is PrayerManInWiegman------------and nowhere to be seen in Darnell. As for the man you think is Mr Shelley in Altgens, he's still there in Wiegman-----------removing the basis of your suggestion as to why a fake shadow was put down Mr Lovelady! Thumb1:
So, once again sir, IF he isn"t Shelley, enlighten us with a specific name. Fair enough? What say ye?
This gentleman is presumably either Mr Joe Molina or Mr Otis Williams:
(https://i.imgur.com/pGLXAh3.gif)
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Final question before signing off for now ---->
How did Bill Shelley suddenly slip out of the shabby un-tucked shirt worn by Prayer Man into his actual business attire he wore that afternoon?
Are you telling us Altgen's camera lense captured Bill Shelley in one set of clothing, while Wiegman's lense-filming at the same time--captures him dressed differently?
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Final question before signing off for now ---->
How did Bill Shelley suddenly slip out of the shabby un-tucked shirt worn by Prayer Man into his actual business attire he wore that afternoon?
Again you're making the same mistake of describing PrayerManInWiegman with reference to PrayerManInDarnell. Show us PrayerManInWiegman's "shabby untucked shirt"!
As for how Mr Shelley could possibly have changed into his business suit between the shooting and being taken down to DPD headquarters, well that's easy-------------he had his own office! Thumb1:
Are you telling us Altgen's camera lense captured Bill Shelley in one set of clothing, while Wiegman's lense-filming at the same time--captures him dressed differently?
No, Mr Ford, no-------------------I am telling you that Mr Altgens' camera lens did not capture Mr Shelley at all! Thumb1:
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This gentleman is presumably either Mr Joe Molina or Mr Otis Williams:
(https://i.imgur.com/pGLXAh3.gif)
Thumb1:
No, you will have to make another assumption sir.
The respective statements of both men you offered up run contrary to being beside Mr. Lovelady ---->
“I … took up a position on the top step at the entrance of the Texas School Book Depository … Otis Williams … and Mrs. Pauline Sanders … were also viewing the motorcade with me." -- Mr. Joe Molina
“I was standing on the top step against the railing on the east side of the steps in front of the building" -- Mr. Otis Williams
So, again sir, account for the man standing with Lovelady in the Altgen's photo since you refuse to admit it's Bill Shelley. Is the fact that man is wearing business attire preventing you from acknowledging him as Bill Shelley?
Acknowledging him as Bill Shelley would derail your notion that somehow the Prayer Man figure is Bill Shelley, Isn't that so sir?
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No, you will have to make another assumption sir.
The respective statements of both men you offered up run contrary to being beside Mr. Lovelady ---->
“I … took up a position on the top step at the entrance of the Texas School Book Depository … Otis Williams … and Mrs. Pauline Sanders … were also viewing the motorcade with me." -- Mr. Joe Molina
“I was standing on the top step against the railing on the east side of the steps in front of the building" -- Mr. Otis Williams
So, again sir, account for the man standing with Lovelady in the Altgen's photo since you refuse to admit it's Bill Shelley. Is the fact that man is wearing business attire preventing you from acknowledging him as Bill Shelley?
Acknowledging him as Bill Shelley would derail your notion that somehow the Prayer Man figure is Bill Shelley, Isn't that so sir?
Mr. BALL. Where were you standing?
Mr. MOLINA. Right at the front door; right at the front door.
Mr. BALL. Outside the front door?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, outside the front door I was standing; the door was right behind me.
Mr. BALL. Were you standing on the steps?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, on the uppermost step.
"Uppermost step" sounds a lot like landing, no? Thumb1:
And don't you think this man's paunch is a little... large to belong to Mr Shelley?
(https://i.imgur.com/gESnkqF.gif)
And! I somehow doubt these feminine hands belong to Mr Molina...
(https://i.imgur.com/hFB6pBH.jpg)
There's also this from Mr Shelley's March 64 FBI interview report:
"Billy N. Lovelady who works under my supervision for the Texas School Book Depository was seated on the entrance steps just in front of me."
As well as Mr B W Frazier's testimony that Mr Shelley was------------like Mr Lovelady initially--------------over towards the west wall of the entrance.
Remember: When Mr Gary Mack originally showed Prayer Man to Mr Frazier back in 2013, Mr Frazier apparently thought it might be Mr Shelley. What stopped him from making that identification however was timing: he knew that Mr Shelley had left the steps right after the shooting. If we drop the assumption that PrayerManInWiegman=PrayerManInDarnell, that problem disappears and a solution offers itself:
PrayerManInWiegman = Mr Bill Shelley
PrayerManInDarnell = Mr Kenneth DuVall.
Clinging to PrayerMan=LHO will only delay one's inevitable recognition of where Mr Oswald actually was at the time of the assassination!
(https://i.imgur.com/xImC0D3.jpg)
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There's also this from Mr Shelley's March 64 FBI interview report:
"Billy N. Lovelady who works under my supervision for the Texas School Book Depository was seated on the entrance steps just in front of me."
So, let us guess sir, when Lovelady stood up from his seated position to be caught in the standing position in Altgens he is suddenly no longer, quote, "... on the entrance steps just in front of me."? @ Bill Shelley
An amusing version of musical chairs?
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For clarity sake, imo Mr. Ford brings much to the research table, and I commend him for his diligent efforts. However, he has yet to account for two things:
(A) How can Bill Shelley be Prayer Man sipping coffee from a Styrofoam cup, and in the same photo be standing away from Prayer Man clear over in *Mrs Sanders' position.
(B) Yet to demonstrate how Mr. DuVall can see a black coloured vehicle through a concrete barrier; and, rise from his otherwise seated position to morph up & over into the position of Prayer Man who maintains his same position through Weigman, Couch and Darnell.
You have the floor sir. Don't tell us, show us...
*reference 2nd photo in Reply 96
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For clarity sake, imo Mr. Ford brings much to the research table, and I commend him for his diligent efforts. However, he has yet to account for two things:
(A) How can Bill Shelley be Prayer Man sipping coffee from a Styrofoam cup, and in the same photo be standing away from Prayer Man clear over in *Mrs Sanders' position.
(B) Yet to demonstrate how Mr. DuVall can see a black coloured vehicle through a concrete barrier; and, rise from his otherwise seated position to morph up & over into the position of Prayer Man who maintains his same position through Weigman, Couch and Darnell.
You have the floor sir. Don't tell us, show us...
*reference 2nd photo in Reply 9
Alan,
Are you schizophrenic, or just paranoid?
-- MWT :)
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In the following exchange, a member of Mrs. Stanton's family offers up multiple reasons that run contrary to the bogus claim she is Prayer Man ---->
Thu, Jun 14, 2018 8:11 am
X Xxxxxxxx Xxxxxxxxxx (Xxxxxxxxxxx@Xxxxx.com)To:you Details Slideshow
5’4 to 5’6 very heavyset just like the picture I sent you from the 60s in a park with her son... you can also tell her hair was gray by then...because as I think I mentioned before she shut herself in and gained a tremendous amount of weight.
Her weight is why there are very few photos of her...she did not like taking them.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 13, 2018, at 7:23 PM, Alan Ford <a1anford@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Aww...you must be very proud of her, Xxxxxxx, an All-American girl next door type in that photo of her in the 1940's. She looks so kind and unassuming. Makes me recall fond memories of my own Mum.
>
> Cannot thank you enough for your kindness, patience and generous nature, Xxxxxxxx, it is appreciated. In fairness to you, I feel like I owe you at least an explanation about my inquiry into your paternal-grandmother's physical appearance in the early 1960's. Two men who worked in her same office building described her as short and heavy-set on the very day President Kennedy was assassinated. I just wanted to get confirmation of this, thus my question to you about how would you best describe her in the early 1960's. Taking nothing away from those two men, I reasoned a family member (and you are a dear member of her family) would be able to confirm their observations.
>
> Fido is nudging his wet nose on the screen, signaling he wants to go out to answer nature's call before we turn in. This dog never seems to bother me unless I'm in mid-sentence. Trust all is well with you & yours this evening. Thanks so very MUCH for your time, Xxxxxxxx, Semper Fi.
>
> Alan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: X Xxxxxxxx Xxxxxxxxx<Xxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxcom>
> To: Alan Ford <a1anford@aol.com>
As we all are able to see Prayer Man is MUCH thinner than a rather heavy set woman. Unlike the gray hair of Mrs. Stanton mentioned within the exchange, Prayer Man is not gray haired.
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There's also this from Mr Shelley's March 64 FBI interview report:
"Billy N. Lovelady who works under my supervision for the Texas School Book Depository was seated on the entrance steps just in front of me."
So, let us guess sir, when Lovelady stood up from his seated position to be caught in the standing position in Altgens he is suddenly no longer, quote, "... on the entrance steps just in front of me."? @ Bill Shelley
Exactly-----------he was seated just in front of Mr Shelley, then the motorcade arrived and he stood up, leaving him still just in front of Mr Shelley! Thumb1:
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For clarity sake, imo Mr. Ford brings much to the research table, and I commend him for his diligent efforts.
Thank you, sir! Thumb1:
However, he has yet to account for two things:
(A) How can Bill Shelley be Prayer Man sipping coffee from a Styrofoam cup, and in the same photo be standing away from Prayer Man clear over in *Mrs Sanders' position.
Kindly stop persisting with this strawman argument. I have explained my position multiple times already:
Your identification of this man as Mr Shelley is erroneous!
(https://i.imgur.com/UVwdgqe.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/eJ9cckK.jpg)
(B) Yet to demonstrate how Mr. DuVall can see a black coloured vehicle through a concrete barrier; and, rise from his otherwise seated position to morph up & over into the position of Prayer Man who maintains his same position through Weigman, Couch and Darnell.
Two things here, Mr Ford:
1. Do you believe Mr DuVall told the truth about sitting on the third step of the entranceway?
2. If your answer to 1 is 'Yes', then can you please tell us where you think he is in a) Altgens b) Wiegman?
3. 'Prayer Man' cannot be seen in the Couch film!
4. The assumption that PrayerManInWiegman = PrayerManInDarnell is just that------------an assumption!
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Now!
If my identification of this man in the Hughes film as Mr Kenneth DuVall is correct (and I believe it is)--------------
(https://i.imgur.com/NTWOXnp.jpg)
--------------then the following extraordinary scenario suggests itself:
1. Mr Oswald in custody says he was in the entrance, west side, at time of shooting
2. Mr Frazier (and possibly Mr Lovelady and/or Mr Shelley too?) confirm this claim, meaning that the authorities know he was out there
3. The visual record is scoured for his presence, and Mr Oswald's face is found in the Wiegman film, just under Mr Lovelady, except...
4. It's not actually Mr Oswald but Mr DuVall, a man of whose existence the authorities have no notion as he's not a Depository employee!
5. 'Oswald' (actually Mr DuVall) is removed from Wiegman via the addition of a fake shadow
6. Mr Oswald's claim to have visited the second floor lunchroom BEFORE the shooting and to have been out front DURING it is-------------suppressed
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Yup. He's best ignored! Thumb1:
You & Mr. Iacoletti, Mr. Plant, etc. are doing a fine job keeping him honest...thanks very much gentlemen. Enjoy your week, Mr. Ford, all the very best to you & yours. Back next weekend to catch up. Peace & blessings to all.
*Just saw your Reply @ 120, Mr. Ford, will be first post I read further upon my return.
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Yawn....the ridiculous Stanton claim is made by you and it's a total joke. The figure is not a woman but you see a scarf, wig, and a dress in a distorted photo that still doesn't show a scarf, wig, or dress. :D
What about the buttons? Do you see any buttons?
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Now!
If my identification of this man in the Hughes film as Mr Kenneth DuVall is correct (and I believe it is)--------------
(https://i.imgur.com/NTWOXnp.jpg)
--------------then the following extraordinary scenario suggests itself:
1. Mr Oswald in custody says he was in the entrance, west side, at time of shooting
2. Mr Frazier (and possibly Mr Lovelady and/or Mr Shelley too?) confirm this claim, meaning that the authorities know he was out there
3. The visual record is scoured for his presence, and Mr Oswald's face is found in the Wiegman film, just under Mr Lovelady, except...
4. It's not actually Mr Oswald but Mr DuVall, a man of whose existence the authorities have no notion as he's not a Depository employee!
5. 'Oswald' (actually Mr DuVall) is removed from Wiegman via the addition of a fake shadow
6. Mr Oswald's claim to have visited the second floor lunchroom BEFORE the shooting and to have been out front DURING it is-------------suppressed
Of course..........all of the above would be contingent on this really being Mr DuVall in the Hughes film:
(https://i.imgur.com/yyuHell.gif) (https://i.imgur.com/opQsfNn.jpg)
If so, then what appears to be a newspaper being waved enthusiastically in the Towner film (left of the red arrow here!)---------------
(https://i.imgur.com/iCTOdcC.gif)
-----------as well as the original Altgens wirephoto that went out-------------
(https://i.imgur.com/64PwDEL.gif) (https://i.imgur.com/5TChEmc.gif)
--------------may be giving us an important clue to the area in which the head of the Oswald-resembling Mr DuVall might have been visible in the original, pre-altered Wiegman film----------------
(https://i.imgur.com/Zc3Usgf.gif)
NB!-----------------The man I have identified as Mr DuVall in Hughes has what appears to be a newspaper in his shirt breastpocket:
(https://i.imgur.com/1KREejg.gif)
Thumb1:
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Two things here, Mr Ford:
1. Do you believe Mr DuVall told the truth about sitting on the third step of the entranceway?
Yes, I do believe he did. However, the key issues for me regarding him are --->
{A) Sequence (Has it been irrefutably determined when he actually sat on the steps? I don’t believe that has been determined).
(B) Prayer Man’s shirt is not white akin to the delivery uniform Mr. DuVall’s daughter shared that he wore on the job, nor does it bear Mr. DuVall’s white coloured company logo patch and/or the patch bearing his name either.
2. If your answer to 1 is 'Yes', then can you please tell us where you think he is in a) Altgens b) Wiegman?
Imho, he does not appear on the steps in either (by this sequence I believe he has moved from his initial seated position out into line of spectators on the street. There are two men in a Darnell frame in uniforms akin to the usual clothing worn by delivery drivers.
3. 'Prayer Man' cannot be seen in the Couch film!
The key participants can be, so watching their respective movements in transition between Weigman to Darnell we see continuity.
4. The assumption that PrayerManInWiegman = PrayerManInDarnell is just that------------an assumption!
The continuity of Prayer Man is obvious. He remains in the furtherest position west atop the front entrance steps. He is not wearing Bill Shelley’s business attire in Weigman, nor does he slip out of Shelley’s attire into Mr. DuVall’s delivery uniform in Darnell.
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You are dishonest with the false claims you make. You are not a "researcher" and have offered no proof except for making up your own evidence.
Frazier said Stanton was to his left in every single interview.
Frazier never places Stanton to his right.
Stanton never stated she was outside in that position. She stated she went inside the building after hearing three explosions.
The physical appearance of PM does not match Stanton. Stanton had white hair and was between 300-500 pounds according to what her family told you.
Davidson didn't bring out anything and even he doesn't make this false claim.
This is all the proof against you.
You have no facts and you only make up what you want to believe calling that proof.
Hear!, hear!
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Two things here, Mr Ford:
1. Do you believe Mr DuVall told the truth about sitting on the third step of the entranceway?
Yes, I do believe he did. However, the key issues for me regarding him are --->
{A) Sequence (Has it been irrefutably determined when he actually sat on the steps? I don’t believe that has been determined).
True, but the indications from what we do know is that he claimed to have been on the steps at the time of the motorcade.
(B) Prayer Man’s shirt is not white akin to the delivery uniform Mr. DuVall’s daughter shared that he wore on the job, nor does it bear Mr. DuVall’s white coloured company logo patch and/or the patch bearing his name either. [/b]
What age was Mr DuVall's daughter on 11/22/63? And how punctilious was Mr DuVall about wearing his uniform every day to work? And how strict were his employers on the matter?
If this is indeed Mr DuVall in the Hughes film-----------
(https://i.imgur.com/oOAsEoF.gif) (https://i.imgur.com/gxz2hAk.jpg)
------------then he wasn't wearing that uniform that particular day, period.
Imho, he does not appear on the steps in either (by this sequence I believe he has moved from his initial seated position out into line of spectators on the street. There are two men in a Darnell frame in uniforms akin to the usual clothing worn by delivery drivers.
Well, he's clearly neither of these two men------------
(https://i.imgur.com/jWGmLyP.jpg)
-------------so where is he?
And unless you can back up your scenario above with anything Mr DuVall himself said about this phase in his Oral history interview, then I'm afraid it's just an arbitrary speculation.
The continuity of Prayer Man is obvious. He remains in the furtherest position west atop the front entrance steps.
By that logic, Mr Lovelady must have been wearing a white dress that afternoon!
(https://i.imgur.com/VdPLACc.gif)
The "continuity of Prayer Man" is an understandable assumption (I used to make it myself). However, it is not the only possibility. PrayerManInWiegman and PrayerManInDarnell are not standing in the exact same spot, and IMO PrayerManInDarnell does not have his hands in the 'prayer' formation!
Thumb1:
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The "continuity of Prayer Man" is an understandable assumption (I used to make it myself). However, it is not the only possibility. PrayerManInWiegman and PrayerManInDarnell are not standing in the exact same spot, and IMO PrayerManInDarnell does not have his hands in the 'prayer' formation!
Thumb1:
Yet in both instances, Mr. Ford, his manner of dress reveals his forearms remain fully exposed. That's undeniable.
I do not believe Bill Shelley, who was otherwise dressed in full business attire would roll his suit coat up to expose his forearms. The lack of business attire worn by Prayer Man rules out Bill Shelley in Weigman. The continuity of his fully exposed forearms transitioning from Weigman to Darnell rules out anyone else slipping into his shirt rolled in similar fashion.
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The "continuity of Prayer Man" is an understandable assumption (I used to make it myself). However, it is not the only possibility. PrayerManInWiegman and PrayerManInDarnell are not standing in the exact same spot, and IMO PrayerManInDarnell does not have his hands in the 'prayer' formation!
Thumb1:
Yet in both instances, Mr. Ford, his manner of dress reveals his forearms remain fully exposed. That's undeniable.
Lots of people's forearms were fully exposed!
I do not believe Bill Shelley, who was otherwise dressed in full business attire would roll his suit coat up to expose his forearms.
I've already shown you footage of Mr Shelley from 11/22/63 in which he is wearing his business shirt with forearms exposed. And we do not know for sure that he wasn't dressed more casually prior to going down to give his affidavit. There is nothing ruling out his being PrayerManInWiegman, and much to speak for it!
The lack of business attire worn by Prayer Man rules out Bill Shelley in Weigman.
We simply cannot see enough detail in Wiegman to say that!
Once again: where is Mr DuVall in Altgens and/or Wiegman and/or Darnell and/or Couch??
Thumb1:
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Lots of people's forearms were fully exposed!
Yes, however, Mr. Ford, within the CE 1381 Statements none of them place themselves in Prayer Man's precise position.
I've already shown you footage of Mr Shelley from 11/22/63 in which he is wearing his business shirt with forearms exposed. And we do not know for sure that he wasn't dressed more casually prior to going down to give his affidavit. There is nothing ruling out his being PrayerManInWiegman, and much to speak for it!
Please share that photo again (I wasn't aware that there was an actual photo of Bill Shelley on that afternoon without full business attire)
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Thank you, sir! It is worth reminding ourselves of our common ground here:
1a. Mr Oswald told Captain Fritz he bought a Coca Cola in the second floor lunchroom before the assassination
1b. Mr Oswald bought a Coca Cola in the second floor lunchroom before the assassination
2a. Mr Oswald told Captain Fritz he went outside to watch the Presidential parade
2b. Mr Oswald went outside to watch the Presidential parade
3. Mr Oswald was in the entranceway at the time of the assassination
We both say: Mr Oswald was not up at the Sniper's Nest window firing at JFK. And we are both right about that! Thumb1:
Hear!, hear!
Encore, encore!, Mr. Ford
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You can ignore what you like, but that’s not going to make Frazier, Lovelady, or Stanton say things that they never actually said.
BS: It does nothing of the kind.
Your “Davidson’s metadata” argument is something you completely made up. Davidson never posted anything about metadata and said that he didn’t prove anything. Your misrepresentation of him is highly dishonest and downright criminal.
Iacoletti,
Do you think Chris should press charges?
Btw, you surprised me on another thread a couple of hours ago when you disparaged the findings of that father and son forensics gun-shot team in the PBS Nova "Cold Case JFK" special.
And here I thought you were scientifically minded!
But no, you're just an arch contrarian Conspiracy Theorist who undoubetly believes that oodles and gobs of people were "in" on the assassination and the cover up!
LOL
-- MWT ;)
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Btw, you surprised me on another thread a couple of hours ago when you disparaged the findings of that father and son forensics gun-shot team in the PBS Nova "Cold Case JFK" special.
You surprised me on another thread a couple of hours ago when you beat your wife.
Get a life, Graves, and stop strawmanning.
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Don't like the results of the ballistics tests shown in Cold Case: JFK?
Bummer, dude.
When did I ever say that?
Get a life, dude.
As you can well imagine (you are capable of imagining, aren't you?) I get particularly satisfying sadistic pleasure in torturing the likes of "dualies" Storing and Klienschmidt and, from a distance, James "Jumbo Duh" at the so-called Education Forum!
The only thing you manage to torture is a logical argument.
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When did I ever say that?
Get a life, dude.
The only thing you manage to torture is a logical argument.
Your ostensibly logical denunciations, which, unfortunately, eschew circumstantial evidence and take things out of context to a Heisenbergish level of uncertainty, based as they are on your patent psychological (or is it ideological, comrade?) need to "pull the wool" over other students' eyes and prevent them from ascertaining Oswald's Marxism-motivated guilt -- are tortuous and twisted like a Mobius Strip -- which, when sliced all-the-way down the middle, reveals one big loop to all of us, John "Heisenberg" Iacoletti.
-- MWT ;)
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You gave your thesaurus quite a workout putting together that nonsensical and irrelevant paragraph.
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You gave your thesaurus quite a workout putting together that nonsensical and irrelevant paragraph.
Iacolletti,
Having scored in the 98th percentile on the "verbal intelligence" section of the SAT many years ago, I don't have to use a thesaurus.
Regardless, what do you not understand about my stating you are, in my humble opinion, a duplicitous (look it up) shyster regarding what is, and is not, valid evidence in the JFK assassination?
-- MWT ;)
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People who can, do.
People who can’t, brag about their SAT scores.
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People who can, do.
People who can’t, brag about their SAT scores.
Speaking of "do," it's a pity that all you have done here is do-do on the living room carpet, figuratively speaking.
But wait! What's that smell? ... OMG, not again!
You little devil, you !!!
What? Prove that it was you and not the evil, evil, evil CIA?
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Graves, do you enjoy derailing every single damn thread with your trolling nonsense?
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49242966918_546d6046ae_o.png)
That person on the left hand side 2 steps from the top is, in my opinion, the mysterious prayer person. And that person is definitely not Oswald. If that is true then it doesn't really matter that much who it is.
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Friends, now that Mr Oswald has been found in the Wiegman film-----------
(https://i.imgur.com/URqZFym.jpg)
-----------we can rule him out as Prayer Person in Wiegman. Thumb1:
As I have argued elsewhere, Prayer Person in Wiegman is in fact Mr Bill Shelley.
But! Who is Prayer Person in Darnell?
(https://i.imgur.com/AeQnlFA.jpg)
It's not Mr Shelley, that's for sure.
Could it be Mr Oswald? It's just possible, though I now strongly doubt it (for a reason I won't go into here... oh alright then: white tshirt!).
The problem is, no other Depository employee fits the bill. :'(
However! Here's a new candidate: Mr Ken DuVall.
Thumb1:
Mr. Ford and Mr. Ford,
I wonder what James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio (who loves Donald Trump and still believes Alger Hiss was innocent) at the so-called Education Forum thinks?
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy ;)
PS Will lurking Sandy Larsen (who spotted big, tall black blouse and black headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery in the Zapruder film and standing on a lower TSBD step in Darnell) ever find the courage to post here, or ... gasp ... has John "Blind-As-A-Bat-But-Oh-So-Rational" Iacoletti (who fervently believes that the three women standing by the Stemmons sign in Zapruder are "uhh ... probably Carol Reed, definitely Gloria Cavery, and definitely me, Karen Westbrook!") scared him away?
LOL
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Yes it is and it's blatantly obvious. It's photograhic proof. That person on that step is the shadowy figure known as 'prayer person', the very same person that has caused all this controversy. The controversy was initially that many claimed it was Oswald. Well it's clearly not Oswald. I can see how this would upset you but it is what it is.
The person positioned on the 2nd step in the photo you previously posted appears to be Very Tall. The Darnell still frame showing both Prayer Person and Buell Frazier standing on the landing, shows that Frazier is much taller than Prayer Person. In fact, Frazier towers above Prayer Person. The guy standing on the 2nd step in the photo you posted is simply TOO TALL to be Prayer Man.
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The person positioned on the 2nd step in the photo you previously posted appears to be Very Tall. The Darnell still frame showing both Prayer Person and Buell Frazier standing on the landing, shows that Frazier is much taller than Prayer Person. In fact, Frazier towers above Prayer Person. The guy standing on the 2nd step in the photo you posted is simply TOO TALL to be Prayer Man.
Too tall. Nonsense. It's 'Prayer Person'. Isn't the truth of the matter that many on here won't accept anything that flies in the face of their research. I can understand that.
In the photo posted by C.Davidson the person is standing a few steps down on the left side, and is not far from the position the person occupied during the parade. Clearly it's the same person.
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49242966918_546d6046ae_o.png)
Is there a Person/Image in this posted picture of the TSBD Bldg Entrance, that is indicated to be a candidate for PrayerPerson/Image?
I am just seeking clarification, as I am unable connect any as pictured Person/Image to PrayerPerson/Image.
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Is there a Person/Image in this posted picture of the TSBD Bldg Entrance, that is indicated to be a candidate for PrayerPerson/Image?
I am just seeking clarification, as I am unable connect any as pictured Person/Image to PrayerPerson/Image.
Larry,
As I understand it, Storing or somebody believes the female or child standing against the left wall is Prayer Person.
-- MWT ;)
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Thanks Thomas. My guess would be a female child, but it seems strange to me that a child would be there at that time, about 1:00pm. Maybe?
Larry,
Either that, or an elderly woman.
-- MWT ;)
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Too tall. Nonsense. It's 'Prayer Person'. Isn't the truth of the matter that many on here won't accept anything that flies in the face of their research. I can understand that.
In the photo posted by C.Davidson the person is standing a few steps down on the left side, and is not far from the position the person occupied during the parade. Clearly it's the same person.
Prayer Person is Much shorter than Buell Frazier. The man pictured walking down the steps after the assassination is Very Tall. His Tall Height DQ's this man from being Prayer Man.
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Hine reported that the lights went out and Mooney also said that the elevators weren’t working at one point too. But I don’t see what that has to do with who prayerperson is.
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Counting down the seconds until you get put on 'Ignore', Rick...
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Paulene Sanders has testified ".....I noticed Sarah Stanton next to me....". Mrs Sanders was standing way over on the east side and on the top platform.
The only real issue for me, regarding the front steps, is the fact that not one person said Oswald was on the front steps, and no other evidence has placed him on the front steps entrance to the TSBD during the assassination.
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Paulene Sanders has testified ".....I noticed Sarah Stanton next to me....". Mrs Sanders was standing way over on the east side and on the top platform.
Yep! Thumb1:
The only real issue for me, regarding the front steps, is the fact that not one person said Oswald was on the front steps
List of people who said they noticed a child standing on the steps:
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Paulene Sanders has testified ".....I noticed Sarah Stanton next to me....". Mrs Sanders was standing way over on the east side and on the top platform.
The only real issue for me, regarding the front steps, is the fact that not one person said Oswald was on the front steps, and no other evidence has placed him on the front steps entrance to the TSBD during the assassination.
As I recall, PaulineSanders indicated in her statement that she was on the east side of the landing, but I do not recall her saying "way over". In any event, consideration should be given to the measurement of the landing wall to wall is reportedly estimated to have been about 11' 6", on 11/22/'63. And, I do not recall PaulineSanders indicating SarahStanton being on the east side of the landing, but "next to" could have each lady on opposite sides of the landing/center handrail.
The fact that not one person/eyewitness ever stating LeeHarveyOswald being seen on the front steps, or landing, as well as no other evidence placing him on the front steps/landing of the TSBD during the assassination is quite important.
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There is a distinct lack of EVIDENCE to 'prove' who PP is either way. I'm afraid that persistently repeating the same theory/theories does NOT make it fact.
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"next to" could have each lady on opposite sides of the landing/center handrail.
Amen, brother! That's why it's relatively meaningless that Frazier and Lovelady also said that she was "next to" them.
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There is a distinct lack of EVIDENCE to 'prove' who PP is either way. I'm afraid that persistently repeating the same theory/theories does NOT make it fact.
I remain mindful that SarahDeanStanton was among the known Motorcade Viewers on the stairs/landing as it passed the entrance portal, as well as mindful that the reliable evidentiary valuable indicative information sufficiently indicates that LeeHarveyOswald was not there at that time. So, a good place to start, and continue from there.
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Amen, brother! That's why it's relatively meaningless that Frazier and Lovelady also said that she was "next to" them.
Who is she? Is there a specific posted reply that is what is being referenced?
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Who is she? Is there a specific posted reply that is that is being referenced?
Stanton
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Stanton is the most probable candidate for the person named Prayerman by Sean Murphy.
Why?
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Why?
Again..... it was a dude taking pictures with a camera, but it wasn't Oswald. He was busy upstairs at the time, uh........
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Now! Moving gently on from the above distractions formed of nothing but hot air...
There has been an interesting development! Over on the Photographs/Films section of this Forum, Mr Hackerott has reported on his viewing of the Darnell film in the Sixth Floor Museum.
He says this clearer version of the film shows something that is not evident in the versions we have been working with:
There is a vertical dark line visible under PrayerPerson's face. And this line is visible against what is an obvious light background.
I have found, in the best publically available version of the film, one frame that shows this line which Mr Hackerott says is evident across multiple frames-----------------
(https://i.imgur.com/hUodL0T.gif)
-----------------and Mr Hackerott has confirmed that this is the line he is talking about. Thumb1:
Now!
I believe this may well be a game-changer in the discussion, for the simple reason that (and I hasten to add that this is my take rather than the estimable Mr Hackerott's!) this line---------------and its relationship to PrayerPerson's hands-----------------looks very much like a bottle.
Could PrayerPersonInDarnell be the Coke-sipping Mr Oswald after all? ???
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Is Mr Frazier trying to tell us something here?
(https://i.imgur.com/pi7OgSk.jpg)