JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jorn Frending on June 26, 2019, 03:39:50 AM

Title: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Jorn Frending on June 26, 2019, 03:39:50 AM
The Katzenbach Memo on Monday morning after the assassination made sure that Oswald was regarded as a lone nut and the only suspect.

Thus, any more investigation was unnecessary and cut by the roots.

Life in Irving before the assassination:

Before the assassination Oswald would be an ex marine, former member of the civil air patrol, and befriended with the rightwing De Mohrenschildt, a Dallas Petroleum Club member.

However, at the same time he would be a Fair Play for Cuba activist associating with Pro Castro Cubans and publicly advocate for a "Hands of Cuba policy".

Ruth Paine apparently had monitored help organisations in Nicaragua helping the Sandinistas who in 1961 formed the FLNS in their fight against dictatorship.

Michael Paine had a file cabinet with information about Pro Castro Cubans ...

(Wait a minute, could Oswald be furnishing Michael Paine with such information?)

Oswald, being a nobody, would get huge media attention for handing out only a few leaflets. Heavy TV cameras would show him handing out those leaflets and interview him later in the studios where he eloquently would answer questions about international politics.

(Now would you consider the following to be a matter of coincidence?)

Hoover made a memo about Oswald's name being used in intelligence operations while Oswald was still in Japan. The CIA had a 201 file on him.

The Sandinistas claimed to be Marxist Leninist and were supported by the USSR. Nicaragua was subject to counter espionage from both the US and the USSR.

Castro claimed to be a Marxist Leninist. And guess what, Oswald claimed to be a Marxist Leninist.(to get more credibility as a "Pro Cuban"?)

(Rather than being a coincidence you may wonder if Oswald formed part of a small scale counter intelligence operation, a kind of a 9 to 5 spy job)

If so, it could certainly be necessary to cover this up. Imagine that Oswald had become a triple agent for the USSR/Cuba. A WWIII could wait around the corner.

(Disclaimer: Citing from memory only, elaborating on a working theory)
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Tom Scully on June 26, 2019, 05:09:35 AM
Removing your Sandinista (sourced from Carol Hewett as retold by DiEugenio or perhaps Bill Kelly?  ) suspicions,
This is what remains. (quoted below):

(IOW, don't try to be this guy.:
Quote
'A Constant Game of Musical Chairs' Amid Another Homeland Security ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/25/us/politics/mark-morgan-ice-cbp.html
4 hours ago - In one appearance on Fox News, Mr. Morgan said that when he looked into the eyes of detained migrant children, he saw a “soon-to-be MS-13 ...
Trump's ICE pick said he could predict future MS-13 gang members ...
https://www.businessinsider.com/mark-morgan-ice-nominee-ms-13-migrant-children-...

May 17, 2019 - Mark Morgan, President Donald Trump's pick to lead Immigration and ... migrant children will join the gang MS-13 by looking into their eyes.
Trump's ICE Nominee Thinks He Has a Sixth Sense for Future MS-13 ...
https://www.vanityfair.com/.../trumps-ice-nominee-mark-morgan-thinks-he-has-sixth-...

May 17, 2019 - “I’ve looked at them and I’ve said, ‘That is a soon-to-be MS-13 gang member,’” Mark Morgan told Fox’s Tucker Carlson. Donald Trump has never bothered to distinguish between migrant children and their parents when it comes to his anti-immigrant fear-mongering.
)

The Katzenbach Memo on Monday morning after the assassination made sure that Oswald was regarded as a lone nut and the only suspect.

Thus, any more investigation was unnecessary and cut by the roots.

Life in Irving before the assassination:

Before the assassination Oswald would be an ex marine, former member of the civil air patrol, and befriended with the rightwing De Mohrenschildt, a Dallas Petroleum Club member.

However, at the same time he would be a Fair Play for Cuba activist associating with Pro Castro Cubans and publicly advocate for a "Hands of Cuba policy".

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………...

Michael Paine had a file cabinet with information about Pro Castro Cubans ...

(Wait a minute, could Oswald be furnishing Michael Paine with such information?)

Oswald, being a nobody, would get huge media attention for handing out only a few leaflets. Heavy TV cameras would show him handing out those leaflets and interview him later in the studios where he eloquently would answer questions about international politics.

(Now would you consider the following to be a matter of coincidence?)

Hoover made a memo about Oswald's name being used in intelligence operations while Oswald was still in Japan. The CIA had a 201 file on him.

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

Castro claimed to be a Marxist Leninist. And guess what, Oswald claimed to be a Marxist Leninist.(to get more credibility as a "Pro Cuban"?)

(Rather than being a coincidence you may wonder if Oswald formed part of a small scale counter intelligence operation, a kind of a 9 to 5 spy job)

If so, it could certainly be necessary to cover this up. Imagine that Oswald had become a triple agent for the USSR/Cuba. A WWIII could wait around the corner.

(Disclaimer: Citing from memory only, elaborating on a working theory)

Iacoletti is not the only, looking for the truth, let the chips fall where they may, poster on this forum. Some of us do not accept the CT info stream
at face value, anymore than we would a book authored by Posner.

I shared the following details with Jim DiEugenio on November 15, 2015. It appears since then DiEugenio preferred to keep you from awareness of these facts.
Could it be because these facts are less prejudicial to Ruth Paine's rep?

Quote
http://www.jfkpage.com/Paine/Occurrence_in_Nicaragua.pdf
Occurrence in Nicaragua - February/March 1991
The purpose of this paper is to document events which occurred in Managua, Nicaragua during February and March of 1991 involving Ruth Paine, U.S. coordinator of Pro-Nica, a project of the Southeastern Yearly Meeting of Friends (SEYM) based in St. Petersburg, Florida.
…...
During the next two or three weeks, Ruth, Jon and another person were at most gatherings of the U.S. solidarity community including regular meetings at the Benjamin Linder House, evening worship sessions held at the Moravian Church around the fast on the Iraq War, and a meeting of U.S. health workers held at the Linder House. 

(Link to Jon's obit: https://www.stanforddaily.com/2012/10/25/jonathan-roise-former-editor-in-chief-passes-away-at-67/
….
In 1990, Roise moved to Managua, the capital of Nicaragua, to work as the director of the Quaker Center. He co-founded Sí a la Vida, an organization that aimed to provide street children with mentorship and structured lifestyles to transition them to autonomous adulthood. The organization went on to open two centers in Nicaragua...)

The third person, a young red headed man named Sean Miller, took many pictures, using a special lens, and taped presentations, including one by Benjamin Linders’ parents who visited the Casa during this period.  Ruth said Sean was a student at Antioch College (located in Ohio) who was staying at El Centro de los Amigos and taking pictures for the Nicaragua Network.  Sean told some people he lived in Washington, D.C.

Quote
Ruth Paine was later found in Nicaragua helping the CIA's ... www.jfkpage.com/Paine/Occurrence_in_Nicaragua.pdf (http://Occurrence in Nicaragua - February/March 1991
The purpose of this paper is to document events which occurred in Managua, Nicaragua during February and March of 1991 involving Ruth Paine, U.S. coordinator of Pro-Nica, a project of the Southeastern Yearly Meeting of Friends (SEYM) based in St. Petersburg, Florida.) of his head, and the other struck him in the back, exited through his throat and .... The third person, a young red headed man named. Sean Miller, took many pictures, using a special lens, and taped presentations ... student at Antioch College (located in Ohio) who was staying at. El Centro de .... through for us.” Sue Wheaton.

Shawn Miller https://www.linkedin.com/pub/shawn-miller/9/9b/56b Instructional Systems Designer/ Courseware Lead/ Program Manager at Defense Acquisition University Washington D.C. Metro Area  ............ Antioch College B.A., Communications and International Studies 1988 – 1993 Activities and Societies: Graduated with distinction and Commencement Speaker for graduation class Antioch Record (Official College Newspaper) Editor-in-Chief Served as Assistant Community Manager Community Darkroom Manager Freelance photographer for Associated Press
Quote
https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawn-miller-56b09b9
Shawn Miller
Program Manager of Development & Production For e-Learning, Mobile & Simulations at Defense Acquisition University
Fort Belvoir, Virginia....
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 26, 2019, 04:51:32 PM
Careful, Jorn.  You're starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist!
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Jorn Frending on June 26, 2019, 10:23:28 PM
Careful, Jorn.  You're starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist!


You are correct  :)

This is "no man's land" ...

It does not comply with the LN lone nut highschool drop out point of view ...

Nor does it comply with the CT oblivious innocent Oswald point of view ...

However, it explains Oswald on one side being an order filler and on the other side being an eloquent knowledgeable speaker on public television.

It explains Michael Paine possessing a filecabinet with intelligence contents.

It explains intelligence monitoring on Oswald.

It  explains why the "one member Oswald  committee" of Fair Play for Cuba could get heavy television cameras on the street and Oswald interviewed on television.
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Denis Pointing on June 27, 2019, 12:37:50 AM

You are correct  :)

This is "no man's land" ...

It does not comply with the LN lone nut highschool drop out point of view ...

Nor does it comply with the CT oblivious innocent Oswald point of view ...

However, it explains Oswald on one side being an order filler and on the other side being an eloquent knowledgeable speaker on public television.

It explains Michael Paine possessing a filecabinet with intelligence contents.

It explains intelligence monitoring on Oswald.

It  explains why the "one member Oswald  committee" of Fair Play for Cuba could get heavy television cameras on the street and Oswald interviewed on television.

Hi Jorn, I believe it's been accepted by most for years that Oswald tipped off the news guys in advance, they didn't just appear by accident..in that sense, the 'incident' was indeed a set up but a set up by Oswald. As for the filing cabinets, IIRC, the list of pro-Castro Cubans was shown to have belonged to Oswald.

PS I didn't remember correctly, after double checking it seems the list of Cuban names was just a myth. The contents of those cabinets have in fact never been revealed.

Mr. LIEBELER. What was in these file cabinets?

Mr. WALTHERS. We didn't go through them at the scene. I do remember a letterhead--I can't describe it--I know we opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead we had pulled out and so I just pushed it all back down and shut it and took the whole works.

Mr. LIEBELER. I have been advised that some story has developed that at some point that when you went out there you found seven file cabinets full of cards that had the names on them of pro-Castro sympathizers or something of that kind, but you don't remember seeing any of them?

Mr. WALTHERS. Well, that could have been one, but I didn't see it.

Mr. LIEBELER. There certainly weren't any seven file cabinets with the stuff you got out there or anything like that?

Mr. WALTHERS. I picked up all of these file cabinets and what all of them contained, I don't know myself to this day.

Mr. LIEBELER. As I was sitting here listening to your story, I could see where that story might have come from--you mentioned the "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets that were in a barrel.

Mr. WALTHERS. That's right--we got a stack of them out of that barrel, but things get all twisted around.
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Tom Scully on June 27, 2019, 12:52:09 AM
Hi Jorn, ......
..... As for the filing cabinets, IIRC, the list of pro-Castro Cubans was shown to have belonged to Oswald.

(http://jfkforum.com/images/CusterNYT18Aug1876.jpg)
Custer: The Legend of the Martyred Hero (https://books.google.com/books?id=DDaKzWmMfuYC&pg=PA543&lpg=PA543&dq=legend+of+custer+almost+immediately&source=bl&ots=E8e21niO64&sig=ACfU3U1ef7WOt_tw1-lXnytsZvWVSbaO0Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjx4sDiiIjjAhVoh-AKHXfdBBMQ6AEwEXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=true)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CusterLegend1of2CRP.jpg)
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Jack Nessan on June 27, 2019, 01:35:31 AM
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CusterNYT18Aug1876.jpg)
Custer: The Legend of the Martyred Hero (https://books.google.com/books?id=DDaKzWmMfuYC&pg=PA543&lpg=PA543&dq=legend+of+custer+almost+immediately&source=bl&ots=E8e21niO64&sig=ACfU3U1ef7WOt_tw1-lXnytsZvWVSbaO0Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjx4sDiiIjjAhVoh-AKHXfdBBMQ6AEwEXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=true)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/CusterLegend1of2CRP.jpg)

Actually they did not achieve anything. Gen Custer was basically a clown and led his men to needless death. The whole battle never lasted 20 minutes, and a lot of the men were killed running in small groups.
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 27, 2019, 02:57:50 AM
Oswald was not the assassin. He was useful in giving LBJ and the WC a reason to think they needed a cover up.

To quote from my book: Retired Chief Justice Earl Warren admitted that President Johnson finally established the Warren Commission seven days after the assassination because Johnson came to have a profound fear that Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev and Cuban Premier Fidel Castro were behind the assassination. President Johnson feared that their involvement could get the United States into, in Earl Warren’s words, “a nuclear war.”

Warren was interviewed in December 1972 and stated that when he went to the White House on November 29, 1963, President Johnson “told me he felt conditions around the world were so bad at the moment that he thought it might even get us into a war; a nuclear war.”

Two hours before meeting with President Johnson, Earl Warren told Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy that he “did not believe a Chief Justice should undertake non-judicial duties while sitting on the Supreme Court.”

The former Chief Justice also related that President Johnson had “asked for a report from Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara for an estimate on how many Americans would be killed in a Soviet nuclear attack.” Johnson was given a figure of 40 million, and the fear of a possible nuclear war caused Warren to “agree to head the inquiry.” The simple fact is that no matter what the Warren Commission found out, they would abide by their instructions to tell the American public that there was no conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy.

When President Johnson called Senator Richard Russell on November 29 to enlist him for the Warren Commission, he told Russell about Chief Justice Warren refusing Bobby Kennedy’s request to serve on a Presidential Commission, stating, “Bobby and them went up to see him today and he turned them down cold and said, ‘No’ . . . . Two hours later I called him and ordered him down here, and he didn’t want to come. I insisted he come.”

Johnson told Senator Russell that Chief Justice Warren “came down here and told me no twice,” and President Johnson pointedly told Russell, “We’ve got to take this out of the arena where they’re testifying that Khrushchev and Castro did this and did that and chuck us into a war that can kill 40 million Americans in an hour.”

Warren met with the Commission staff on January 20, 1964, and a staff memorandum from the meeting states that Warren “discussed the circumstances under which he had accepted the chairmanship of the Commission.” Warren told the staff that “rumors” that were “circulating in this country and overseas” had to be “quenched,” or the rumors “could conceivably lead the country into a war which could cost 40 million lives. No one could refuse to do something which might help to prevent such a possibility.”

The CIA initially supplied President Johnson and the Warren Commission with information that implicated Castro in the assassination, and they later supplied the Warren Commission with information implicating anti-Castro Cubans in the assassination. The anti-Castro Cubans’ alleged motive was to blame Castro for the assassination and thus provoke a U.S. invasion of Cuba.

But if anti-Castro Cubans had actually assassinated President Kennedy, it would mean Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev and Cuban Premier Fidel Castro instantaneously knew that the assassination was a rightwing conspiracy. As noted in Chapter 9, “twelve minutes” after it was officially announced on November 22 that “President Kennedy was dead,” Moscow radio carried “the first TASS bulletin on his death” stating he “had fallen victim to rightwing extremists,” and Castro stated with absolute certainty that “those demanding a stronger policy against Cuba” were behind the assassination.

In fact, Chapter 9 contains voluminous reports from the CIA and the United States Information Agency stating that nations all around the world thought Kennedy was killed as a result of a right-wing conspiracy. The Soviets and their allies went so far as to repeatedly accuse Barry Goldwater and his supporters of being behind the assassination. There was no one “testifying that Khrushchev and Castro did this and did that,” and the only rumors “circulating in this country and overseas” were rumors that President Kennedy was killed as a result of a right-wing conspiracy.
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Bill Chapman on June 27, 2019, 03:47:18 AM

You are correct  :)

This is "no man's land" ...

It does not comply with the LN lone nut highschool drop out point of view ...

Nor does it comply with the CT oblivious innocent Oswald point of view ...

However, it explains Oswald on one side being an order filler and on the other side being an eloquent knowledgeable speaker on public television.

It explains Michael Paine possessing a filecabinet with intelligence contents.

It explains intelligence monitoring on Oswald.

It  explains why the "one member Oswald  committee" of Fair Play for Cuba could get heavy television cameras on the street and Oswald interviewed on television.

CT mancrush Lee Harvey Oswald was a committee of three, actually:
1) Alex/Alec/Alek Hidell (rhymes with Fidel) was in charge of armament procurement.
2) O.H. Lee was in charge of safe house procurement... and the butt-twister waltz.
3) Dirty Harvey was in charge of curtain-rod procurement... along with becoming a somebody.

Oswald's Marxist schtict was closer to Groucho than Karl by the way. IIRC, Michael Paine and/or George deM stated that Oswald was talking as if by rote, and would get angry and leave the room if challenged.

Swedish makes it sound even funnier:

CT mancrush Lee Harvey Oswald var en kommitté med tre, faktiskt:
1) Alex / Alec / Alek Hidell (rimmar med Fidel) var ansvarig för bevarandeupphandling.
2) O.H. Lee var ansvarig för säkra husupphandlingar ... och butt-twister waltz.
3) Dirty Harvey var ansvarig för gardinstångsupphandling ... tillsammans med att bli någon.

Oswalds marxistiska schtikt var närmare Groucho än Karl förresten. IIRC, Michael Paine och / eller George deM uppgav att Oswald pratade som om han var rote och skulle bli arg och lämna rummet om han utmanades.
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Tom Scully on June 27, 2019, 05:48:43 AM
CT mancrush Lee Harvey Oswald was a committee of three, actually:
1) Alex/Alec/Alek Hidell (rhymes with Fidel) was in charge of armament procurement.
2) O.H. Lee was in charge of safe house procurement... and the butt-twister waltz.
3) Dirty Harvey was in charge of curtain-rod procurement... along with becoming a somebody.

Oswald's Marxist schtict was closer to Groucho than Karl by the way. IIRC, Michael Paine and/or George deM stated that Oswald was talking as if by rote, and would get angry and leave the room if challenged.

Swedish makes it sound even funnier:

CT mancrush Lee Harvey Oswald var en kommitté med tre, faktiskt:
1) Alex / Alec / Alek Hidell (rimmar med Fidel) var ansvarig för bevarandeupphandling.
2) O.H. Lee var ansvarig för säkra husupphandlingar ... och butt-twister waltz.
3) Dirty Harvey var ansvarig för gardinstångsupphandling ... tillsammans med att bli någon.

Oswalds marxistiska schtikt var närmare Groucho än Karl förresten. IIRC, Michael Paine och / eller George deM uppgav att Oswald pratade som om han var rote och skulle bli arg och lämna rummet om han utmanades.

Quote
Marina & Lee by Priscilla Johnson Macmillan (https://books.google.com/books?id=wVZsAAAAIAAJ&dq=editions%3Azmlo1BOaFcUC&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=davenport)
........
(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaCousinDavenportCredit1977Book.jpg)

Swedish, huh?

Quote
A Special Force: Origin And Development Of The Jedburgh Project In Support (https://books.google.com/books?id=u7lvCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT41&lpg=PT41&dq=Ellery+C.+Huntington+Jr.++london+george+brewer&source=bl&ots=dvDbRlpa68&sig=ACfU3U0GxEsfev5CfSRHF_K8boljLCuMFg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwixsNCV9IjjAhXaX80KHZntDKsQ6AEwB3oECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Ellery%20C.%20Huntington%20Jr.%20%20london%20george%20brewer&f=false) ...
By Major Wyman W. Irwin
(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaDavenportBrewerElleryChuntington.jpg)
Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/1987/07/06/obituaries/ellery-huntington-jr.html
Ellery C Huntington, Jr  July 6, 1987

....Mr. Huntington, a native of Nashville, headed a detachment of Army liaison officers posted to Marshal Tito's partisans in the mountains of Yugoslavia. His mission was to keep the United States informed about the guerrilla fight against the German and Italian occupation troops and arrange for parachute drops of supplies and nightly air evacuation of the wounded.

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Blatnik
John Anton Blatnik (August 17, 1911 – December 17, 1991)
....From 1940 to 1944, he served in the Minnesota State Senate and volunteered to serve in the United States Army Air Corps in 1942. While in the Army Air Corps (the predecessor to the Air Force), he was chief of the Office of Strategic Services's mission with Tito's Yugoslav partisans for almost a year.[2]

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP88-01315R000400280018-2.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldWebsterRandPostalBlatnik.jpg)

In 1946, Blatnik was elected to Congress representing Minnesota's 8th District in the northeastern part of the state, running on the newly unified ticket of the Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party. He was reelected 13 times without much difficulty. He served in the 80th, 81st, 82nd, 83rd, 84th, 85th, 86th, 87th, 88th, 89th, 90th, 91st, 92nd, and 93rd congresses, (January 3, 1947 – December 31, 1974).

Mr. Huntington was a director and officer of the Equity Corporation of New York from 1932 to 1941. He returned in 1945 as president and then chairman of that investment concern and its subsidiaries, retiring in 1958.

He is survived by his wife, Catherine DuBois Huntington; two daughters, Hester Huntington McClintock of Madison, Conn., and Susan Huntington Hanmer of Los Angeles, and a son, the Rev. Frederic D. Huntington of Miami.

(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaDavenportBrewer1942Engage.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaDavenportBrewerObit.jpg)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60313&relPageId=49
(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaHastingsBodyguard.jpg)

2-1/2 years later, Clark Cilfford's first cousin JoAnne McAdams
filed a lawsuit against that man, her stepfather Jerome Jerre Hastings Hasty, his friend David Davenport,
and several doctors for involuntarily committing her to the State of New Mexico mental hospital.

Quote
Las Vegas Optic from Las Vegas, New Mexico on July 31, 1967 ? Page 1
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/35602601/
Miss Me Adams, who is not represented by an attorney in the suit relates in the complaint that she had come to Santa Fe to visit her mother, Mrs. Marguerite McAdams Hasty, and her mother's husband, Jerome Hasty, and David Davenport, a friend of Hasty, induced her to consult Dr. Roscnbaum. As a result, she claims, the ...
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QP7Y7FFiUSU/UXDF-gVFmBI/AAAAAAAAA8M/G8lNTcIcos4/s720/PriscillaDavenportHastyLawsuit1967_1of2.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaClarkCliffordUncle.jpg)

.......
I do find it curious that the man married to Clifford's aunt Marguerite Bowman McAdams in late
1964 was a close friend of Priscilla's first cousin, David C Davenport, CIA, and performed as driver
and bodyguard of Priscilla and Marina.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60397&relPageId=146 and http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=60313&relPageId=49

20 October, 2001
(http://tomscully.com/Images/DavenportObit2OCT2001.jpg)
Without Reservations: From Harlem to the End of the Santa Fe Trail
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0943734363 (https://www.google.com/search?q=harlem+ballen+davenport+cia+cousin+priscilla&source=lnms&tbm=Bary Kamps&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi1nJ6im83YAhUB3FMKHXazAOQQ_AUIECgB&biw=1280&bih=581)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaDavenportBallen.jpg)

2-1/2 years later, Clark Cilfford's first cousin JoAnne McAdams
filed a lawsuit against that man, her stepfather Jerome Jerre Hastings Hasty, his friend David Davenport,
and several doctors for involuntarily committing her to the State of New Mexico mental hospital.

No one reacts to those facts because they do not know what to make of them despite the uncontested
facts that support all of that as true!

Caprio and company must read it in a 40 year old book to embrace it unconditionally.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/author-85-knew-jfk-killer-oswald-article-1.1525293
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1525290.1385076841!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_1200/president-assassin.jpg)
Marina Oswald (left), widow of Lee Harvey Oswald, with friend Jerre Hastings (center) and Priscilla Johnson McMillan. McMillan befriended Oswald after the assassination of JFK. (JOSH REYNOLDS/JOSH REYNOLDS PHOTO)

1954 Obit:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OxCkEmgfcEU/UYOxYlZxEoI/AAAAAAAABB0/sszwxU8Ifgk/s720/PriscillaObitWilliamDouglasMcAdams.jpg)
1940 U.S. Census snippet of a household in New Trier (Winnetka)Illinois:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tXbbdVGZ0gk/UYOxgcMPHSI/AAAAAAAABB8/3vCZ7manKpc/s1280/PriscillaHastyMcAdams1940CensusNewTrierILL.jpg)
On April 26, 1940, Jerome A Hastings was a 29 year old man who was born in Wisconsin and was employed as a buyer at a country club. His education level was C2, two years of college. Hastings' annual income was just over $300. In 1935 his residence was in Flemington, NJ.

On May 18, Jerome Hasty was a 29 year old man who was born in Wisconsin and was employed as a officer at a country club. His education level was C1, one year of college. Hasty's annual income was just over $600. In 1935 his residence was in Carmel-by-the-Sea, CAL.

26 years later, Jerome Allen Hasty files a notice of legal change of name from Hasty to Hastings:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qdSAs_XwtTc/UXIny-MCVFI/AAAAAAAAA8s/1q5I4NBVwU4/s720/PriscillaDavenportHastyToHastingsNameChangeNotice100366.jpg)
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Denis Pointing on June 27, 2019, 11:55:05 AM
Yet another good thread completely ruined by Tom Scully irrelevant waffle!!
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Tom Scully on June 27, 2019, 05:22:11 PM
Continued from last post....
So....how did the George Brewer, Jr, FiL of Priscilla's hardly familiar CIA assist and first cousin David Davenport,
get the OSS chief job in 1942 in London he soon handed off to David KA Bruce? Brewer evidently was vetted during his Groton and
Yale years....

Lower in this post I included the article image of the 1923 wedding of George Brewer, Jr   The ushers included Charles White.....
Brewer, Jr was a member of the (tiny) Groton School class of 1918. He and Cornelius V Whitney were members of the Yale Groton Club in 1922.

Quote
https://www.groton.org/page/about/history
Groton School was an immediate success and by 1920 had grown to about 180 students and 22 faculty members. Peabody, having found his calling, ran the ...

Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/14/obituaries/langbourne-williams-is-dead-retired-businessman-was-91.html?searchResultPosition=7
Langbourne Williams Is Dead; Retired Businessman Was 91
By JOHN HOLUSHASEPT. 14, 1994

...One of the Williams firm's investments was in the Freeport-Texas Company, a sulfur-mining company based in New York. Concerned that the management of the company was not moving aggressively to increase reserves, Mr. Williams and some associates decided to become corporate raiders, waging a proxy fight in 1928.

The existing management fought back, at one point filing a $1 million libel suit against Mr. Williams and his associates because they had made accusations that Freeport-Texas managers were working more for themselves than the shareholders. Two years later, in 1930, the Williams group prevailed by less than 4,000 shares. Mr. Williams, then 27, was sent to the company's headquarters in New York as vice president, treasurer and a director of the company. Company Branched Out

Three years later, he advanced to president of the company, with John Hay Whitney, a prominent New York investor, named chairman. Mr. Williams stayed with the company as president until 1958 and as chairman until 1967, building the company's operations to the point where it became the largest producer of sulfur in the country and branching out into other minerals like nickel....

Whitney's first cousin, Jock, (John Hay Whitney) owned the NY Herald Tribune in 1963 and was described personally writing  the ASAP editorial (article image below) in his newspaper, an early attempt to cement the LN case closed, conclusion. Jock Whitney and Langbourne
Williams worked together on Wall Street and Jock financed Williams's accumulation of Freeport Sulphur stock shares resulting in a 1930
hostile takeover of Freeport.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=PZE8UkGerEcC&dat=19631123&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7162/6818103239_4396f739c3_b.jpg)

In a bungalow on Jock's Glen Head, LI estate, Jinx Falkenberg resided
from 1946 until eviction after Jock's 1992 death, by his widow. The only wedding I can find in which Priscilla (also of Glen Head) was
an attendant, was the wedding of her lifelong friend Jane Macatee (http://jfkforum.com/images/oswaldpriscillaMacateeDavidsonJinxNiece.jpg), a first cousin of.....Jinx Falkenberg!

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._Trubee_Davison
F. Trubee Davison
.....After the war
After the war, Trubee went back to Yale and, while rooming with fellow Unit member "Di" (Artemus) Gates, finished his undergraduate program graduating in 1919.[2] In 1920, Trubee Davison married Dorothy Peabody, the daughter of the headmaster at Groton School where he had attended before attending Yale. After his father died Trubee and Dorothy built a house on the Davison estate, Peacock Point, in order to keep his mother company.[17]
.....
(http://jfkforum.com/images/MccloyTrubeeDavison1930.jpg)
Link to John Newman book page image (https://books.google.com/books?id=17AtAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT115&dq=That+man,+who+had+known+her+since+she+was+a+small+child,+was+F.+Trubee&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiWyuSHlorjAhX2B50JHfNeBxwQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false) :
(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaTrubeeWaitingForMe.jpg)

In 1919, Yale freshman and future father inlaw, George Brewer, Jr of Priscilla's very helpful (with shielding Marina, circa fall 1964) CIA first cousin, David C Davenport, was a dorm room neighbor (I am assuming... 271D vs  269D) of Charles A Wight.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaDavenportBrewerYale1919.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaDavenportBrewerWightYale1919.jpg)

Quote
https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/269
Saturday, 15 June 1996 19:25
JFK, Indonesia, CIA & Freeport Sulphur
Written by Lisa Pease

The second part of Lisa Pease's study of the links between Freeport Sulphur, the CIA and the JFK assassination focuses on Kennedy's Indonesian policy.
.....
1959: Copper Mountain
At this point, Freeport Sulphur entered the Indonesian picture. In July, 1959, Charles Wight, then President of Freeport-and reported to be fomenting anti-Castro plots and flying to Canada and/or Cuba with Clay Shaw (see Part I of this article)-was busy defending his company against House Committee accusations of overcharging the Government for the nickel ore processed at the Government-owned plant in Nicaro, Cuba. The Committee recommended that the Justice Department pursue an investigation. Freeport's Moa Bay Mining Company had only just opened, and already the future in Cuba looked bleak.
Quote
https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/david-atlee-phillips-clay-shaw-and-freeport-sulphur
Monday, 15 April 1996 19:34
David Atlee Phillips, Clay Shaw and Freeport Sulphur
Written by Lisa Pease
....One man whose name we first thought to be WHITE apparently is WIGHT, Vice President of Freeport Sulphur who reputedly made the flight. Currently an effort is being made to locate WIGHT, who lives in New York.

(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaDavenportInLawBrewer1923Wed.jpg)
Despite the fact that the original source of this information was JULES RICCO KIMBLE, a man with a record, this lead keeps growing stronger. From the very outset it had been reported that the flight had something to do with the import of nickle following the loss of the original import supply from Cuba. Recent information developed on WIGHT in a separate memo indicated that he is now on the Board of Directors of the Freeport Nickel Company, a subsidiary of Freeport Sulphur. - NODA Clay Shaw Lead File note, no date....

(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaDavenportInLawBrewerCAwightObit1972freeport.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaDavenportBrewer1922YaleFratWight.jpg)

Henry Hurt of Readers Digest married in 1968 the niece of Freeport's chairman, Langbourne Williams. 8 years later,
Hunt threatened Billy Joe Lord, using stated advice (by Lord to Jimmy Carter) to pressure Lord from close personal friends of then DCI, George HW Bush.:

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1439.0.html
Dec. 6 specially decorated Bush '41 Train engine, was Billy Joe Lord on board?
.....Henry Hurt is simply supposed to be an Readers Digest journalist author with emphasis on National Security matters.
This dents that assumption quite remarkably.:

Eight years earlier, Hurt was working in Kennebunkport and marrying into the Bemiss/Williams family.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/HenryHurtKennebunkport.jpg)

Jim Beamis, full of advice for Hurt as described in the Lord letter is a slam dunk match for Bush Kennebunkport
summer neighbor and lifelong friend.:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/65388323/fitzgerald-bemiss
FitzGerald Bemiss
BIRTH   2 Oct 1922
DEATH   7 Feb 2011 (aged 88)
BURIAL   Hollywood Cemetery
Richmond, Richmond City, Virginia, USA
....
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 03, 2019, 06:19:38 AM
Yet another good thread completely ruined by Tom Scully irrelevant waffle!!

I agree, Denis.

His posts remind me of a particular scene in A Beautiful Mind.

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 03, 2019, 06:45:16 AM
CT mancrush Lee Harvey Oswald was a committee of three, actually:
1) Alex/Alec/Alek Hidell (rhymes with Fidel) was in charge of armament procurement.
2) O.H. Lee was in charge of safe house procurement... and the butt-twister waltz.
3) Dirty Harvey was in charge of curtain-rod procurement... along with becoming a somebody.

Oswald's Marxist schtict was closer to Groucho than Karl by the way. IIRC, Michael Paine and/or George deM stated that Oswald was talking as if by rote, and would get angry and leave the room if challenged.

Swedish makes it sound even funnier:

CT mancrush Lee Harvey Oswald var en kommitté med tre, faktiskt:
1) Alex / Alec / Alek Hidell (rimmar med Fidel) var ansvarig för bevarandeupphandling.
2) O.H. Lee var ansvarig för säkra husupphandlingar ... och butt-twister waltz.
3) Dirty Harvey var ansvarig för gardinstångsupphandling ... tillsammans med att bli någon.

Oswalds marxistiska schtikt var närmare Groucho än Karl förresten. IIRC, Michael Paine och / eller George deM uppgav att Oswald pratade som om han var rote och skulle bli arg och lämna rummet om han utmanades.

Funny you mention Georgi.

The guy whom Dick Russell claims Edward Clare Petty told him ... gasp... that he had determined, by analyzing some WW II Venona decrypts, was probably a long-term (since 1938) KGB "illegal".

(Does anyone know exactly what sort of government job George's older brother, Dimitri, held, by the way?  State Department with Alger Hiss, by any chance?)

And then, of course, there Marina, the pretty gal who was rumored to have been a Saint Petersburg-based KGB honey-trap artist back in the day ...

Hmm.

-- MWT  ;)

Oh yeah, and Ruthie The Mannish-Woman Russophille!

Was Hosty ... jealous?

Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Gary Craig on July 03, 2019, 04:24:11 PM
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/filecabinets.jpg)

(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/cubansLHO.jpg)
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Gary Craig on July 03, 2019, 04:33:36 PM
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/minox11192_1.gif)

(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/minoxpicture.jpg1.jpg)

(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/nov_22-23-33.jpg)

(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/nov_22-23-38.jpg)
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 03, 2019, 04:57:14 PM
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/minox11192_1.gif)

(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/minoxpicture.jpg1.jpg)

(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/nov_22-23-33.jpg)

(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/nov_22-23-38.jpg)

Gary,

Point being?

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Gary Craig on July 03, 2019, 05:15:02 PM
Gary,

Point being?

-- MWT  ;)

In addition to file cabinets full of information on Cuban sympathizers found amongst his possessions in the Paines's garage,

Ozzie had an expensive Minox camera.

Hemming: The Minox Camera
The Minox found in Oswald's room was originally given to Bayo from Hemming. The serial numbers match.
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Tom Scully on July 04, 2019, 10:32:36 PM
Yet another good thread completely ruined by Tom Scully irrelevant waffle!!

Denis, I would prefer to think positively of you, I really would! Unfortunately, you offer nothing but chronic complaint.
If I did not know better, I would be wondering if you were intent on discouraging readers from considering what I actually contribute to this forum,
because this is certainly not the first time you have indicated you do not believe I enhance the reader experience or inform readers.
You even posted an opinion, at least the way I understood it, you had a favorable impression of Caprio posting 67 percent of all new threads since
Jan., 2018, or some similar opinion, despite the absence of discernible originality in any Caprio OP.

You are certainly a gate keeper here. Instruct me to stop posting and I will oblige.

I do not see you objecting, for example, to Gary Craig attempting to transform portable folder storage, a dead end even before the WCR was published,
into meaningful, office sized filing cabinets. Vague sensationalism highlighting 56 year old, dead ends is always entertaining, but is it distraction,
or actually more misleading than it is informing?

Quote
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/minox.htm
…….
…Mr. WALTHERS. You could tell it from the way it was tied and the impression of where that barrel went up in it where it was tied, that a rifle had been tied in it, but what kind---you couldn't tell, but you could tell a rifle had been wrapped up in it, and then we found some little metal file cabinets---I don't know what kind you would call them---they would carry an 8 by 10 folder, all right, but with a single handle on top of it and the handle moves.
Mr. LIEBELER. About how many of them would you think there were?
Mr. WALTHERS. There were six or seven, I believe, and I put them all in the trunk of my car ….
…Mr. WALTHERS. They were all put in the cars and we took them to Capt. Will Fritz' office along with the stuff we had confiscated, the files and the blanket and the other stuff, and I turned them over to Captain Fritz and left them and went back to my station.
Mr. LIEBELER. What was in these file cabinets?
Mr. WALTHERS. We didn't go through them at the scene. I do remember a letterhead--I can't describe it--I know we opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead we had pulled out and so I just pushed it all back down and shut it and took the whole works.
Mr. LIEBELER. I have been advised that some story has developed that at some point that when you went out there you found seven file cabinets full of cards that had the names on them of pro-Castro sympathizers or something of that kind, but you don't remember seeing any of them?
Mr. WALTHERS. Well, that could have been one, but I didn't see it.
Mr. LIEBELER. There certainly weren't any seven file cabinets with the stuff you got out there or anything like that?
Mr. WALTHERS. I picked up all of these file cabinets and what all of them contained, I don't know myself to this day.….


You post little or nothing original or actually informative. For example, I posted the following image. Do you not grasp the significance
of the location of Henry Hurt's residence, compared to the claims Billy Joe Lord made in his letter to newly serving President Carter in 1977?

(http://jfkforum.com/images/HenryHurtKennebunkport.jpg)

Quote
The Matriarch: Barbara Bush and the Making of an American Dynasty
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1538713659
Susan Page - 2019 - ‎Biography & Autobiography
It was FitzGerald Bemiss, a pal of Prescott Bush from Kennebunkport. He had battled bad weather to get there from Cornell University. He was supposed to be in ...

The Bushes: Portrait of a Dynasty - Page 61 - Google Books Result
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0385498640
Peter Schweizer, ‎Rochelle Schweizer - 2005 - ‎Biography & Autobiography
You didn't go to Kennebunkport to spend time alone or curl up for hours with a book. Gerry Bemiss, whose family owned a home nearby, remembers those …

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennebunkport%2C_Maine
Kennebunkport is a town in York County, Maine, United States. The population was 3,474 people at the 2010 census.
….
Summer home of the Bush family
Main article: Bush compound
Kennebunkport was also the summer home of former U.S. President George H. W. Bush, father of former U.S. President George W. Bush.
…….
Population History:

1960 - 1,851

1970-  2,160


Billy Joe Lord:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9963&relPageId=175&search=shortly_after%20returning%20to%20midland
(http://jfkforum.com/images/BillyJoeLordPresCarterpg2.jpg)

In addition to file cabinets full of information on Cuban sympathizers found amongst his possessions in the Paines's garage,

Ozzie had an expensive Minox camera....

Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Tom Scully on July 05, 2019, 06:14:12 AM
..........
Quote
The Matriarch: Barbara Bush and the Making of an American Dynasty
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1538713659

Susan Page - 2019 - ‎Preview - ‎More editions
With her cooperation, this book offers Barbara Bush's last words for history -- on the evolution of her party, on the role of women, on Donald Trump, and on her family's legacy.

The Matriarch: Barbara Bush and the Making of an American Dynasty
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1538713659
Susan Page - 2019 - ‎Biography & Autobiography
It was FitzGerald Bemiss, a pal of Prescott Bush from Kennebunkport. He had battled bad weather to get there from Cornell University. He was supposed to be in ...

The Bushes: Portrait of a Dynasty - Page 61 - Google Books Result
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0385498640
Peter Schweizer, ‎Rochelle Schweizer - 2005 - ‎Biography & Autobiography
You didn't go to Kennebunkport to spend time alone or curl up for hours with a book. Gerry Bemiss, whose family owned a home nearby, remembers those …
............

Short and sweet:

In 1968, Reader's Digest sponsored Henry Hurt, according to his wedding announcement, moved back to Virginia from his Kennebunkport
school teacher job location. He married the daughter of Langbourne Williams's brother.

Langbourne Williams, president of Freeport Sulphur, was closely related to Gerry Bemiss (Billy Joe Lord reliably described Bemiss being
a high ranking Virginia republican party and hotel operator, and Lord had never met Bemiss.)
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/89080540/samuel-merrifield-bemiss
Bemiss's grandmother, Cyan Williams Bemiss was the sister of Langbourne Willams's father.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/88891802/langbourne-meade-williams

"Barb", however, described one her husband's George HW's oldest and closest friends, dating back to their boyhoods, as an F.O.P., not
a F.O.G.
Quote
https://books.google.com/books?id=jRvdwoKQOgQC&pg=PA311&lpg=PA311&dq=george+bush+devine+bemis+meeting&source=bl&ots=u7Yvu_GF9z&sig=16xsVqU5CrpyRAZn1Q7pKu0XPcI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUqe7Rk6zLAhXrlIMKHYevB60Q6AEIKDAB#v=onepage&q=george%20bush%20devine%20bemis%20meeting&f=false
The China Diary of George H. W. Bush: The Making of a …
Jeffrey A. Engel – 2011 – ‎History
The Making of a Global President Jeffrey A. Engel … Bemis, Lias and Devine had a meeting regarding my political future—very thoughtful of them.5 All I know …
(http://jfkforum.com/images/BushLordBemissHotelExecutive.jpg)

Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/1956/10/19/archives/contract-linked-to-gop-loyalty-witness-at-nickel-inquiry-tells-of.html
CONTRACT LINKED TO G.O.P. LOYALTY; Witness at Nickel Inquiry Tells of Rise in Gifts-- Eisenhower Mentioned Hall Invited to Testify Files Were Confidential 'Political Facts of Life'
By C.P. TRUSSELL SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES.OCT. 19, 1956
WASHINGTON, Oct. 18--An investigating panel of the House of Representatives was told today that President Eisenhower had agreed early in his Administration to the schooling of department and agency heads in "the political facts of life" on the awarding of Government contracts.VIEW FULL ARTICLE IN TIMESMACHINE »

Quote
Snare and Merritt on Plant Job - The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/1954/08/01/archives/snare-and-merritt-on-plant-job.html
August 1, 1954
Natl Lead chooses F Snare Corp and Merritt-Chapman for expansion work on US-owned Nicaro, Cuba, plant....

Search terms: Snare and Nickel:
Quote
https://www.maryferrell.org/search.html?q=snare%20and%20nickel&types=D&from=1

6 page hits in Documents
1. No Title, pg 6  https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=125420&relPageId=6&search=snare_and%20nickel
Found in: FBI - HSCA Subject File: Osvaldo Aurelio Pino Pino
ORLANDO advised the subject narked under him during 1955 for approximately six months at Nicara, the location of Nicara Nickel Company near Preston, Oriente
ORLANDO advised he and the subject were working for the Frederick Snare Corporation at that location. Mr. and Mrs.
see all page hits in this document »

2. No Title, pg 2 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=125424&relPageId=2&search=snare_and%20nickel
Found in: FBI - HSCA Subject File: Osvaldo Aurelio Pino Pino
ORLANDO advised the subject worked under him during 1955 for approximately six months at Nicara, the location of Nicara Nickel Company near Preston, Oriente
ORLANDO advised he and the subject were working for the Frederick Snare Corp., at that location. Mr. and Mrs.

3. No Title, pg 6 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=125447&relPageId=6&search=snare_and%20nickel
Found in: FBI - HSCA Subject File: Osvaldo Aurelio Pino Pino
He said he had been employed by Snare-Merritt Contractors and Nicaro Nickel Company, both of Mayari, Oriente, Cuba, for approximately four years imaedi.ately

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=64485&relPageId=19&search=snare_and%20nickel
4. SPANISH LANGUAGE NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS ON CUBAN EXILES, pg 19
Found in: HSCA Segregated CIA Collection, Box 15
T quo en au visita a1 inorrne cuwbinudn de nickel del norte de Orien- te (Nicaro, Msyari) advirtui quo no funcionabsn los *strictures del. poles metaiko
Snare U.se esmpeametlda pars eapsrtar, 40 all tosalidas d terse el peal's* ale, Mieatrea Canto, quien romp. was libra as bolo ss gra, aasgaa we pals on

5. No Title, pg 6  https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=125447&relPageId=6&search=snare_and%20nickel
Found in: FBI - HSCA Subject File: Osvaldo Aurelio Pino Pino
He said he had been employed by Snare-Merritt Contractors and Nicaro Nickel Company, both of Mayari, Oriente, Cuba, for approximately four years imaedi.ately

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=64485&relPageId=19&search=snare_and%20nickel
6. SPANISH LANGUAGE NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS ON CUBAN EXILES, pg 19
Found in: HSCA Segregated CIA Collection, Box 15
T quo en au visita a1 inorrne cuwbinudn de nickel del norte de Orien- te (Nicaro, Msyari) advirtui quo no funcionabsn los *strictures del. poles metaiko
Snare U.se esmpeametlda pars eapsrtar, 40 all tosalidas d terse el peal's* ale, Mieatrea Canto, quien romp. was libra as bolo ss gra, aasgaa we pals on


Frederick Snare, Sr.: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/137278800/frederick-snare

....and Allen and his brother John Foster Dulles just happened to be first cousins of Frederick Snare's son's wife, Ellen Dulles, since 1916.(1)(2)
2004 obit of son of Frederick Snare, Jr. and Ellen Dulles, Frederick III:
(1) https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/bennington/obituary.aspx?n=frederick-snare&pid=2373852
(2) https://www.nytimes.com/1970/09/12/archives/foster-r-dulles-historian-dies-educator-and-expert-on-far-east.html
1958, post CIA coup in Iran, the BP / CIA placed Shah sent his ambassador to Vermont to spend a weekend as a guest at the home
of J Foster Dulles first cousin and widow of Frederick Snares, Jr.:

Quote
Bennington Evening Banner Newspaper Archives, Feb 14, 1958
https://newspaperarchive.com/bennington-evening-banner-feb-14-1958-p-1/
... expressing his ardor for Ellen Axson, the preacher's daughter who bacame his first wife in 1885. .... Full Weekend Planned For Ambassadors MANCHESTER — Two ... minded voters that Bennington Dr. Djalal Abdoh, Iranian am- has ordered all ... Edith Dulles Snare is hostess to will happen if Bennington does not1 Pratt ...
Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Abdo
Ali Abdoh (Alan Morgan) (Persian: علی عبده‎) was an Iranian boxer and founder of Persepolis Athletic and Cultural Club. He was Chairman of Persepolis F.C. from 1963 to 1975.
.....Early life
He was born in 1928 in Iran. He was son of Mohammad Abdoh Boroujerdi who was a chief justice and expert in Islamic law in the Reza Shah era. He was also brother of Jalal Abdoh who was Iran's Ambassador to India and Italy and to the United Nations. Jalal Abdoh was also one of the members of the team that argued Iran's case against the British at the Hague for nationalization of its oil during the Mossadegh era.

Allen's daughter Clover's wedding announcement informs us her maid of honor, Eleanor Thomas, was Clover's cousin and I have already proved that this cousin's brother was the last person to see Priscilla's dad Stuart Johnson alive, in 1969. In her 1978 HSCA testimony, Priscilla offered the excuse for the 14 year wait for her book, Lee and Me, was due to her upset over the concealed suicide of her father.:
Archived page from tomscully.com: http://archive.is/esTuB
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Jon Banks on July 05, 2019, 04:50:40 PM
I have long suspected that the reason the CIA and FBI have been so cagey about the Kennedy Assassination Files is the possibility that Oswald was a spy or informant for one or more government agencies.

I also believe the rush to support the "Lone Nut" narrative was due to LBJ's desire to avoid having to go to war against the USSR. Johnson told The Atlantic magazine in the 1970s that he never believed Oswald acted alone and suspected Russian involvement.

Sometimes, the way to avoid answering difficult questions is to avoid asking the question. The assumption that Oswald acted alone and avoidance of investigating a potential Conspiracy, helped Johnson avoid making difficult decisions about War.
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Denis Pointing on July 06, 2019, 03:33:59 PM
I have long suspected that the reason the CIA and FBI have been so cagey about the Kennedy Assassination Files is the possibility that Oswald was a spy or informant for one or more government agencies.

I also believe the rush to support the "Lone Nut" narrative was due to LBJ's desire to avoid having to go to war against the USSR. Johnson told The Atlantic magazine in the 1970s that he never believed Oswald acted alone and suspected Russian involvement.

Sometimes, the way to avoid answering difficult questions is to avoid asking the question. The assumption that Oswald acted alone and avoidance of investigating a potential Conspiracy, helped Johnson avoid making difficult decisions about War.

Hi Jon, I looked thru the Atlantic website and found the following; "During coffee, the talk turned to President Kennedy, and Johnson expressed his belief that the assassination in Dallas had been part of a conspiracy. "I never believed that Oswald acted alone, although I can accept that he pulled the trigger." Johnson said that when he had taken office he found that "we had been operating a damned Murder Inc. in the Caribbean." A year or so before Kennedy's death a CIA-backed assassination team had been picked up in Havana. Johnson speculated that Dallas had been a retaliation for this thwarted attempt, although he couldn't prove it."
As you can see, no mention of the "Russians". If you know of another reference to Russia that I may have missed, could you post a link to it, please? Also, in Johnson's own words, his suspicions were just speculations. Former President or not, I don't hold Johnson's 'speculations' any higher than I would anyone else's.
As for the rest of your post, FWIW, I can't find too much I'd disagree with. I've often suggested that Oswald was playing a 'game' of spymaster with himself and in that capacity may have been a low-level snitch for one or more of the agencies, not important enough to be classified as an asset, certainly not an agent. Just a 'snitch' occasionally coming up with something useful.
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Tom Scully on July 06, 2019, 04:17:41 PM
Hi Jon, I looked thru the Atlantic website and found the following; "During coffee, the talk turned to President Kennedy, and Johnson expressed his belief that the assassination in Dallas had been part of a conspiracy. "I never believed that Oswald acted alone, although I can accept that he pulled the trigger." Johnson said that when he had taken office he found that "we had been operating a damned Murder Inc. in the Caribbean." A year or so before Kennedy's death a CIA-backed assassination team had been picked up in Havana. Johnson speculated that Dallas had been a retaliation for this thwarted attempt, although he couldn't prove it."
As you can see, no mention of the "Russians". If you know of another reference to Russia that I may have missed, could you post a link to it, please? Also, in Johnson's own words, his suspicions were just speculations. Former President or not, I don't hold Johnson's 'speculations' any higher than I would anyone else's.
As for the rest of your post, FWIW, I can't find too much I'd disagree with. I've often suggested that Oswald was playing a 'game' of spymaster with himself and in that capacity may have been a low-level snitch for one or more of the agencies, not important enough to be an asset, certainly not an agent. Just a 'snitch' occasionally coming up with something useful.

Consider that Eisenhower gave Nixon and the Dulles brothers broad leeway. The folder dated 2009 of the list of claims against the Castro regime is over 300 pages. Freeport Minerals direct losses may have been closer to $100 million than $50. Was LBJ intimating the Kennedy Bros. came along and built a new culture and S.O.P. inside CIA, and so quickly?

In 1961 the U.S. was nearly unrivaled in economic power and faced only one serious military adversary. All indications are Allen Dulles drank
his own kool-ade and talked his own book, predatory capitalism. The taking of Cuba could not stand, as a point of pride, precedent, the example it would set, and obviously the pain felt in the wallet. A description of the father-in-law of  Edith Dulles Snare.:

Quote
Guantanamo: A Working-Class History between Empire and Revolution (https://books.google.nl/books?id=xLVloXGfEPAC&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=claims+frederick+snare+corp.&source=bl&ots=Eirclo2uVI&sig=ACfU3U0DSA3JgZDIurGyFj9s_ZuGXvkNDw&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=claims%20frederick%20snare%20corp.&f=false)
By Jana Lipman
....
Quote
CUBA: Snare Jubilee - TIME  Monday, Feb. 17, 1936
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,883525,00.html
... King George mounted England's Throne there was founded conveniently adjacent to Havana a country club which was the great enterprise of "Father Snare.
.......

I see corporatist concentration of political influence in that the two
parties, Freeport Sulphur and Frederick Snare Corp. that had been doing quite well taking US government subsidy to the tune of $40 million.
The part about Dulles brother's first cousin and widow of Frederick Snare, Jr. hosting the Iranian ambassador in her home in 1958 indicates to me she and her cousin Foster had an understanding . Frederick Snare Corp. as of 2009, was still listed with a claim amounting to $1.8 million against the Castro government.

Bennington Evening Banner Newspaper Archives, Feb 14, 1958
https://newspaperarchive.com/bennington-evening-banner-feb-14-1958-p-1/
(http://jfkforum.com/images/FreeportEdithDullesSnare1958IranianAbdol.jpg)

Call me crazy, but the indications in the details I have posted in this thread support a Dulles and Langbourne Williams families conspiracy to
recover their losses in Cuba and then mop up the "loose ends" in the example of Stuart Johnson falling at the home of a Dulles cousin, and
in the pressure exerted on Billy Joe Lord, even more so considering Henry Hurt and Bemiss who Lord claimed Hurt consulted on pressure tactics to draw from to pressure Lord's cooperation. Fitzgerald "Gerry" Bemiss was a cousin of Freeport's president Langbourne Williams and Henry Hurt just so happened to have resided in tiny Kennebunkport immediately before marrying Langbourne Williams's brother's daughter.
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on July 07, 2019, 11:36:15 PM

You are correct  :)

This is "no man's land" ...

It does not comply with the LN lone nut highschool drop out point of view ...

Nor does it comply with the CT oblivious innocent Oswald point of view ...

However, it explains Oswald on one side being an order filler and on the other side being an eloquent knowledgeable speaker on public television.

It explains Michael Paine possessing a filecabinet with intelligence contents.

It explains intelligence monitoring on Oswald.

It  explains why the "one member Oswald  committee" of Fair Play for Cuba could get heavy television cameras on the street and Oswald interviewed on television.
Michael Paine did not have a file cabinet filled with intelligence contents in his garage.

The file box found in the garage was identified by Marina as belonging to Oswald. She said he would keep some of his political material in the file box.

Mr. THORNE. Exhibit 125 is a file cabinet for presumably three by five or five by seven inch cards.
Mrs. OSWALD. Lee kept his printing things in that, pencils.
Mr. RANKIN. The things that he printed his Fair Play for Cuba leaflets on?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Pencils and materials that he used in connection with that matter?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he have any index cards in that metal case?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he had some.

The "intelligence monitoring" was done by the FBI. This was done, of course, because he had defected to the USSR and then returned. The agent assigned to monitor Oswald never met him, never interviewed him, and didn't know what he looked like. Some "monitoring."



Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Tom Scully on July 08, 2019, 07:21:05 AM
Michael Paine did not have a file cabinet filled with intelligence contents in his garage.

The file box found in the garage was identified by Marina as belonging to Oswald. She said he would keep some of his political material in the file box.

Mr. THORNE. Exhibit 125 is a file cabinet for presumably three by five or five by seven inch cards.
Mrs. OSWALD. Lee kept his printing things in that, pencils.
Mr. RANKIN. The things that he printed his Fair Play for Cuba leaflets on?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Pencils and materials that he used in connection with that matter?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he have any index cards in that metal case?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he had some.

The "intelligence monitoring" was done by the FBI. This was done, of course, because he had defected to the USSR and then returned. The agent assigned to monitor Oswald never met him, never interviewed him, and didn't know what he looked like. Some "monitoring."

I see a similar reaction to facts from both LNs and CTs posting here. The facts are not going to go away. In fact, factual information is accumulating. Fool me once, shame on you!

Damn that Obama....the former community organizer (aka communist), invited the "stained" rightist extremist Gates to continue occupying one of the most important offices in the executive branch, after campaigning on a platform to withdraw from Iraq and re-examine the war strategy in Afghanistan with a greater emphasis on determining and countering Pakistani interference and assistance to the Taliban.:

A preview of the third page of Gates's circa 1991 Iran-Contra testimony, two immediately preceding pages linked and displayed further
down in this post.

https://www.loc.gov/law/find/nominations/gates/005_excerpt.pdf
This is a 226 page, .pdf transcript –
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-39MH_qqR0pw/Vs05xud2U5I/AAAAAAAAC-w/_pclPk8oG5M/s512-Ic42/NorthFurmark2.jpg[img]

[quote]https://www.upi.com/Archives/1986/12/12/Roy-Furmark-new-figure-in-Iran-Contra-probe/9535534747600/
UPI ARCHIVES  DEC. 12, 1986
Roy Furmark, new figure in Iran-Contra probe

...Frank Moores, a former Newfoundland premier who now heads Government Consultants International, told United Press International that Furmark was the [b]'right-hand financial man' to the late John Shaheen[/b] of New York, a Lebanese-American oil executive.

Shaheen was described as a personal friend and former law client of Casey.

Moores said Shaheen's company, Shaheen Natural Resources of New York, built an oil refinery on Newfoundland's east coast in 1973 for which Furmark set up the financing. When the refinery went bankrupt in 1976, Furmark established his own energy consulting firm in New York while keeping ties with Shaheen....
[/quote]

[quote]
Robert Gates, former defense secretary, [b]offers[/b] harsh critique of ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/robert-gates-former-defense-secretary-offers-harsh-critique-of-obamas-leadership-in-duty/2014/01/07/6a6915b2-77cb-11e3-b1c5-739e63e9c9a7_story.html?utm_term=.a1f133e53d16
Jan 7, 2014 - In a new memoir, former defense secretary Robert Gates unleashes harsh judgments ....Gates acknowledges having ambiguous feelings about both conflicts. For example, he writes that he does not know what he would have recommended if he had been asked his opinion on Bush’s 2003 decision to invade Iraq.

Three years later, Bush recruited Gates — who had served his father for 15 months as CIA director in the early 1990s — to take on the defense job. The first half of “Duty” covers those final two years in the Bush administration. Gates reveals some disagreements from that period, but none as fundamental or as personal as those he describes with Obama and his aides in the book’s second half.

“All too early in the [Obama] administration,” he writes, “suspicion and distrust of senior military officers by senior White House officials — including the president and vice president — became a big problem for me as I tried to manage the relationship between the commander in chief and his military leaders.”... Obama, after months of contentious discussion with Gates and other top .... The book, published by Knopf, is scheduled for release Jan. .... that led to the Afghan surge strategy in 2009, Gates makes no reference to the ...
...
[/quote]
[/quote]

Dealing with some of the coincidences, early. Luce, his Time-Life partner, Haddon, and DCI GHW Bush were members of Skull & Bones, as was Cleveland's Dr. George W Crile. In addition to fellow bonesmen, Crile counted among his close friends, next door neighbor Dan Martin, (brother of Drew Pearson's wife) and Robert E Webster's Moscow Science Fair sponsor, James Henry Rand.

Edward Thompson of Time-Life was Maitland Edey's boss before and after WWII, and his commanding officer in a USAAF intel unit responsible for publishing an air crew briefing magazine. Thompson was described as the leading authority on Luftwaffe tactics and capabilities. Thompson's son, also Edward, was Epstein's Readers Digest Editor who authorized the "work" of Henry Hurt and Pam Butler in Midland vs Billy Joe Lord.

[quote][url=https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=ztMiXa-FDIfWtQakhruIBQ&q=furmark+newfoundland&oq=furmark+newfoundland&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160.1265.11809..12309...0.0..1.367.3155.5j12j2j2......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..35i39j0i131j0j0i22i30j0i22i10i30.ScYGLqwWl-s]The people behind Robert E Webster's defection were the very likely the people behind the October Surprise and Iran-Contra![/url]

Shadowy N.Y. Businessman : Furmark Had Roles in Big Bankruptcy ...
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-12-12-mn-2565-story.html
Dec 12, 1986 - Roy M. Furmark, the shadowy New York businessman who testified ... executive vice president and treasurer of the ill-fated Newfoundland ...

Roy Furmark - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Furmark
Roy M. Furmark (28 September 1931 - 4 January 2001) was a New York businessman who ... In the 1970s Furmark was vice-chairman of the board of the Newfoundland Refining Co., a Canadian venture (which built the Come By Chance ...

Roy Furmark, new figure in Iran-Contra probe - UPI Archives - UPI.com
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1986/12/12/Roy-Furmark-new.../9535534747600/
Dec 12, 1986 - Roy Furmark, who tipped CIA Director William Casey about diversion of U.S. ... Frank Moores, a former Newfoundland premier who now heads ...

Appellee, v. John M. Shaheen, Roy M. Furmark, Albin ... - Justia US Law
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/660/506/42127/
John M. Shaheen, Roy M. Furmark, Albin W. Smith, Peter L.caras, Paul W. Rishell, Shaheen Natural Resources Company,inc., Newfoundland Refining ...
660 F.2d 506 - Public Resource
[/quote]

[quote]https://jfkfacts.org/in-1974-call-to-abolish-cia-sanders-follows-in-footsteps-of-jfk-truman/#comment-859398
Tom S. (Scully)   February 24, 2016 at 12:09 am
[quote]My point being that this pie in the sky stuff is just that. It sounds great that Jack was going to destroy the CIA but we find that actually he did not. In fact he used the hell out of them.

And I think 2 years would have been long enough to disband the CIA. The assassination had nothing to do with Jack not disbanding the CIA.
[/quote]
Can you make a case that the O.S.S. was actually “disbanded”. I can’t earnestly say that anything more drastic happened
than than that it was reconstituted. John Shaheen had been head of special projects. Here is Robert Gates responding to ]
questions about Shaheen’s “right hand man,” Roy Furmark, shortly after Bill Casey’s sudden death.:

https://www.loc.gov/law/find/nominations/gates/005_excerpt.pdf
This is a 226 page, .pdf transcript –
[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TF4gjwDrr5w/Vs05nQgteXI/AAAAAAAAC-Q/_C5gvuTWf1o/s512-Ic42/GatesFurmark19.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TBmABE73R9Q/Vs05sUMnK_I/AAAAAAAAC-g/rBGZYs7nj_w/s512-Ic42/NorthFurmark.jpg)
....
Quote
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/01/an-awkward-question-for-robert-gates-has-the-deep-state-taken-over/282934/
An Awkward Question for Robert Gates: Has the Deep State Taken Over?
The former secretary of defense believes that the uniformed military "had taken control of the policy process" during the war in Afghanistan.

CONOR FRIEDERSDORF
JAN 9, 2014
....One passage struck me as more troubling and revealing than its author perhaps realizes. It concerns the Afghanistan policy review in 2009 and General Stanley McChrystal's surprise request for a substantial escalation of U.S. forces. The request "surprised the White House (and me) and provoked a debate that the White House didn't want," Gates wrote. "I think Obama and his advisers were incensed that the Department of Defense—specifically the uniformed military—had taken control of the policy process from them and threatened to run away with it."

Civilian control of U.S. foreign policy is rather important. So I can't help but marvel at the casual manner in which this former secretary of defense observes that the uniformed military did take control of the policy process with regard to Afghanistan, and implies that they had the capacity to "run away with" the policy process. .....

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/01/robert-gates-owes-no-loyalty-to-president-obama/283082/
Robert Gates Owes No Loyalty to President Obama
A Wall Street Journal columnist's attack on the former secretary of defense's honor is wrongheaded.
CONOR FRIEDERSDORF
JAN 15, 2014
...Reassuringly, Gates was not fond of the self-serving, power-hungry politicians who make up much, though by no means all, of America's governing elite. Like George Washington, who once wrote to a friend that by accepting the presidency, he was giving up “all expectations of private happiness in this world,” Gates was hesitant to serve for as long as he did and thought of resigning many times, because being secretary of defense is an unpleasant task for many non-sociopaths. Stephens is miffed that Gates related disliking the job:

"I did not enjoy being secretary of defense," Mr. Gates writes at one point in the book. Fair enough; he could have retired after serving out the remainder of President Bush's term. He didn't. "People have no idea how much I detest this job," he quotes from an email he wrote in mid-2008, trying to scotch rumors that he would serve under the next administration. Fair enough; he could have turned down Mr. Obama's offer when it was made. He didn't. "If you want me to stay for about a year, I will do so," he told Mr. Obama after the 2008 election. Fair enough; he could have kept the promise to the letter. He didn't; he stayed on for another 29 months. Those are choices Mr. Gates made for his own reasons. Serving as secretary of defense, after all, isn't really a duty; it's an honor and a privilege....

https://web.archive.org/web/20161103035644/http://tomscully.com/node/10
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lw1nqROOy_s/U0dmjJaTXcI/AAAAAAAABt0/z01EWpszo2g/s512/ShaheenBruceMcCaw2003.jpg)

Shaheen and Reagan were born a couple of years apart in Tampico, IL, pop. 600 Shaheen’s best man was the employer
of defector Robert E. Webster. Both Casey and Shaheen died suddenly and left Gates holding “the bag” (Roy Furman)>

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-w-Vn0zZxYgU/U0YBdYXkw0I/AAAAAAAABs4/k2ZeooM2bF4/s512/ShaheenWedRandBestMan.jpg)

Consider these were very protected people, and it took a while for GW Bush to dig
Robert Gates up, dust him off, and put him back, “on track”!.

Roy Furmark:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Furmark

Elroy McCaw was this man’s liason to OSS at the Pentagon during WWII.:

Gen. Harold M. McClelland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_M._McClelland
......

Quote
https://majestic12research.blogspot.com/2009/05/robert-gates.html
Robert Gates
by JASON | 1:26 PM in |

Dr. Robert M. Gates was sworn in on December 18, 2006, as the 22nd Secretary of Defense. Before entering his present post, Secretary Gates was the President of Texas A&M University, the nation's seventh largest university.

Prior to assuming the presidency of Texas A&M on August 1, 2002, he served as Interim Dean of the George Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M from 1999 to 2001.

Secretary Gates served as Director of Central Intelligence from 1991 until 1993. Secretary Gates is the only career officer in CIA's history to rise from entry-level employee to Director. He served as Deputy Director of Central Intelligence from 1986 until 1989 and as Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Adviser at the White House from January 20, 1989, until November 6, 1991, for President George H.W. Bush......

Charles E. Allen, a national intelligence officer for counter-terrorism, went to see Robert Gates on 1st October, 1986, and told him that he believed that the proceeds from the Iran arms sales may have been diverted to support the contras. Gates then passed this information onto Casey.

On 5th October a Sandinista patrol in Nicaragua shot down a C-123K cargo plane that was supplying the Contras. Eugene Hasenfus, an Air America veteran, survived the crash and told his captors that he thought the CIA was behind the operation. Two days later, Roy M. Furmark, who was working for Adnan Khashoggi, told Casey that his boss was owed $10 million for his role played in the arms-hostages deal. Furmark also claimed that the man behind the deal was Oliver North.

On 9th October, Robert Gates and William J. Casey had lunch with Oliver North. It seems that the CIA wanted to see the paperwork for the delivery of arms to Iran. Gates told North: "If you think it's that sensitive we can put it in the director's personal safe. But we need our copy." That afternoon, Casey appeared before two Congressional oversight committees, where he maintained that the CIA had nothing to do with the supplying of contras.

On 15th October, leaflets were given out in Tehran stating that high-ranking advisers to President Ronald Reagan had been visiting Iran the previous month to negotiate a deal to release hostages for arms. Two days later, Charles E. Allen provided Casey with a seven-page assessment of the "arms-hostage machinations". Allen wrote: "The government of the United States, along with the government of Israel, acquired substantial profit from these transactions, some of which profit was redistributed to other projects of the U.S. and of Israel."

Meanwhile, Eugene Hasenfus was providing information to his captors on two Cuban-Americans running the operation in El Salvador. This information was made public and it was not long before journalists managed to identify Raphael Quintero and Felix Rodriguez as the two men described by Hasenfus....
Quote
Quote
https://www.southcoasttoday.com/article/19991114/news03/311149995
NEW BEDFORD -- Private services will be held for Robert Webster, 71, who died Thursday, Nov. 11, 1999, after a long illness. He was the husband of Shirley (Miller) Webster and son of the late Charles Edward and Elizabeth (Bush) Webster.

He died at The Oaks.

He was born in Tiffan, Ohio, and had lived in the New Bedford area since the early 1980s.

He was employed by Edey & Duff of as a boat builder until he retired.

Mr. Webster was a member of the Toastmasters Club and was a Navy veteran.....
Quote
https://paw.princeton.edu/memorial/maitland-edey-jr-58

Mait died Dec. 30, 2016, of complications from multiple myeloma at Massachusetts General Hospital.
He came to us from the Hotchkiss School. His father graduated from Princeton in 1932. Mait left our class after the first term of our sophomore year, returning in 1960. He graduated summa cum laude and won the philosophy prize. His freshman-year roommates were Mike Duncan and Fred Vohr.

Mait married Anna Jufors in April 1957 and lived in Europe, Brooklyn, and Cambridge. Always interested in jazz from his undergraduate days, he began writing for the Jazz Review and the American Record Guide. He enrolled at the Berklee College of Music and enjoyed playing the piano (blues, boogie, swing) all his life. Mait also always loved sailing, and he and a partner started Edey & Duff, making sailboats, which revived the beauty and functionality of traditional wooden sailing craft.

After his divorce and a difficult adjustment period, Mait devoted his time to meditation and the study and writing of philosophy.....

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/13/nyregion/maitland-a-edey-former-editor-of-time-life-books-dies-at-82.html
Maitland A. Edey, Former Editor Of Time-Life Books, Dies at 82
By LEE A. DANIELSMAY 13, 1992

Maitland A. Edey, a former editor in chief of Time-Life Books and a science writer and conservationist, died on May 9 at Martha's Vineyard Hospital in Vineyard Haven, Mass. He was 82 years old....

...Mr. Edey, a native of New York and a 1932 graduate of Princeton, indulged his interest in history and the environment by writing numerous articles and 11 books. Their topics included American songbirds and waterbirds, and the great cats of Africa. The most popular and critically acclaimed was "Lucy: The Beginnings of Humankind" (Simon & Schuster) which he co-wrote with Donald C. Johanson. The 1981 book described the discovery of a three-million-year-old skeleton of an early apelike animal which became the focus of an intense scientific debate over when human beings first appeared on earth. "Lucy" won a National Book Award. Worked for Life Magazine

Mr. Edey, who had worked as an editorial assistant at various New York publishing houses before World War II, joined Life magazine in 1945. He served as a major with the intelligence branch of the Air Force during the war. He resigned from Life as an assistant managing editor in 1956 to do freelance writing.

In 1957 Mr. Edey, whose family had deep roots in New York State, served as a working crew member on the Mayflower II, which retraced the voyage of the original Pilgrim ship from Plymouth, England to Plymouth, Mass.

In 1960 he was named editor of Time-Life Books and worked there for the next 12 years, the last six as editor in chief.

He retired from Time-Life in 1972 and returned to freelance writing. Six of his eleven books were written during the 1970's and 1980's.....
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Jon Banks on July 08, 2019, 04:22:23 PM
Hi Jon, I looked thru the Atlantic website and found the following; "During coffee, the talk turned to President Kennedy, and Johnson expressed his belief that the assassination in Dallas had been part of a conspiracy. "I never believed that Oswald acted alone, although I can accept that he pulled the trigger." Johnson said that when he had taken office he found that "we had been operating a damned Murder Inc. in the Caribbean." A year or so before Kennedy's death a CIA-backed assassination team had been picked up in Havana. Johnson speculated that Dallas had been a retaliation for this thwarted attempt, although he couldn't prove it."
As you can see, no mention of the "Russians". If you know of another reference to Russia that I may have missed, could you post a link to it, please? Also, in Johnson's own words, his suspicions were just speculations. Former President or not, I don't hold Johnson's 'speculations' any higher than I would anyone else's.
As for the rest of your post, FWIW, I can't find too much I'd disagree with. I've often suggested that Oswald was playing a 'game' of spymaster with himself and in that capacity may have been a low-level snitch for one or more of the agencies, not important enough to be classified as an asset, certainly not an agent. Just a 'snitch' occasionally coming up with something useful.

You are correct on that. The actual quote suggests LBJ suspected Castro not the Soviets. However, in Johnson’s worldview it made no difference. He believed all Communist countries were part of the same global hegemony.

I also thought this quote from Johnson was interesting:

“ "After the Warren Commission reported in, I asked Ramsey Clark [then Attorney General] to quietly look into the whole thing. Only two weeks later he reported back that he couldn't find anything new." Disgust tinged Johnson's voice as the conversation came to an end. "I thought I had appointed Tom Clark's son—I was wrong...”

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1973/07/the-last-days-of-the-president/376281/

I believe Johnson made what he believed was a National Security decision in 1963 to quickly endorse the “Lone Nut” narrative and discourage investigations of Conspiratorial leads in the JFK assassination.

His doubts about the WC’s conclusions and curiosity about Conspiracy years later proves that he knowingly covered up a possible Conspiracy with his rush to support the Lone Assassin narrative.
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Gary Craig on July 08, 2019, 09:45:56 PM
Michael Paine did not have a file cabinet filled with intelligence contents in his garage.

The file box found in the garage was identified by Marina as belonging to Oswald. She said he would keep some of his political material in the file box.

Mr. THORNE. Exhibit 125 is a file cabinet for presumably three by five or five by seven inch cards.
Mrs. OSWALD. Lee kept his printing things in that, pencils.
Mr. RANKIN. The things that he printed his Fair Play for Cuba leaflets on?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Pencils and materials that he used in connection with that matter?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he have any index cards in that metal case?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he had some.

The "intelligence monitoring" was done by the FBI. This was done, of course, because he had defected to the USSR and then returned. The agent assigned to monitor Oswald never met him, never interviewed him, and didn't know what he looked like. Some "monitoring."

"The file box found in the garage"

It was a "set of metal file cabinets"(plural) not a single file box as you are and the WC implied.

(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/filecabinets.jpg)
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Denis Pointing on July 08, 2019, 11:05:33 PM
You are correct on that. The actual quote suggests LBJ suspected Castro not the Soviets. However, in Johnson’s worldview it made no difference. He believed all Communist countries were part of the same global hegemony.

I also thought this quote from Johnson was interesting:

“ "After the Warren Commission reported in, I asked Ramsey Clark [then Attorney General] to quietly look into the whole thing. Only two weeks later he reported back that he couldn't find anything new." Disgust tinged Johnson's voice as the conversation came to an end. "I thought I had appointed Tom Clark's son—I was wrong...”

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1973/07/the-last-days-of-the-president/376281/

I believe Johnson made what he believed was a National Security decision in 1963 to quickly endorse the “Lone Nut” narrative and discourage investigations of Conspiratorial leads in the JFK assassination.

His doubts about the WC’s conclusions and curiosity about Conspiracy years later proves that he knowingly covered up a possible Conspiracy with his rush to support the Lone Assassin narrative.

Jon, Johnson certainly didn't want to find a conspiracy, we agree on that. At least some of the WC members may well have been put in place to steer the rest away if one had been found. Ironically, I don't believe it was necessary..there simply wasn't a conspiracy to be found. It's been over fifty years, the evidence has been more thoroughly scrutinised and picked over than any other murder in history, not just once but repeatedly over and over. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of independent researchers, some being highly trained professional's, have investigated the assassination far more thoroughly than the WC ever could. Result? Not a single shred of proof has surfaced that Oswald wasn't just another lone nut killer. Do you really place an ex Presidents suspicions and speculations, basically a gut feeling, above all that?
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Tom Scully on July 09, 2019, 12:53:13 AM
Jon, Johnson certainly didn't want to find a conspiracy, we agree on that. At least some of the WC members may well have been put in place to steer the rest away if one had been found. Ironically, I don't believe it was necessary..there simply wasn't a conspiracy to be found. It's been over fifty years, the evidence has been more thoroughly scrutinised and picked over than any other murder in history, not just once but repeatedly over and over. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of independent researchers, some being highly trained professional's, have investigated the assassination far more thoroughly than the WC ever could. Result? Not a single shred of proof has surfaced that Oswald wasn't just another lone nut killer. Do you really place an ex Presidents suspicions and speculations, basically a gut feeling, above all that?

The evidence stresses your conclusions. Bottom section the NY Times article image displayed further below, titled, "Stuart Johnson dies in a fall":
(Who was Mr. Thomas, an obvious question under less weighty circumstances, but below we have Stuart Johnson's daughter Priscilla in a sworn deposition describing how the concealed suicide of her father impacted her work.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaStuartJohnsonDeath033169_2of2.jpg)

1959:
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https://www.nytimes.com/1959/12/16/archives/flow-of-nickel-from-cuba-halts-big-usowned-nicaro-plant-stops.html
FLOW OF NICKEL FROM CUBA HALTS; Big U.S.-Owned Nicaro Plant Stops Shipments -- New Mining Law Blamed PROGRAM IS LAGGING Construction of Facility for Freeport Sulphur Co. Is Far Behind Schedule FLOW OF NICKEL FROM CUBA HALTS
By PETER B. BARTDEC. 16, 1959

This fall, if all had gone according to plan, Cuba was to have become second only to Canada in world nickel production.VIEW FULL ARTICLE IN TIMESMACHINE »....

1954:
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Intermediate Report of the Committee on Government Operations
https://books.google.nl/books?id=L4XRAAAAMAAJ - Vertaal deze pagina

United States. Congress. House. Committee on Government Operations - 1955 - ‎Fragmentweergave - ‎Meer edities
Mr. Mansure testified that Mr. Talbott did not recommend any contractor. Mr. Cremer testified that he requested Mr. Talbott, who was familiar with the Nicaro situation, to pass his knowledge of Snare's unique qualifications along to Mr. Mansure.

There is the coincidence of the mention of cousin Foster, below, and in the society debut announcement of the candidate debutant, Eleanor Thomas. Eleanor's brother James Augustus Thomas was the last to see Priscilla Johnson's father alive.

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https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/546899133/
Publication: Bennington Banner i Location: Bennington, Vermont Issue Date: Thursday, April 11, 1985 Page: 20

EDITH D. SNARE DORSET - Edith Dulles Snare, 88, cousin of the late John Foster Dulles, died Wednesday at her home in Dorset, where she had lived for the past 45 years. She had formerly resided in Englewood, N.J. Active in local affairs, Mrs. Snare was a founder of the Dorset Nursing Association, an early executive director of the Southern Vermont Artists Association of Manchester, and established Snare Associates Real Estate in the 1950s. She leaves two daughters, Dorothy Warner of Dorset and Naples, Fla....
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....
Bennington Evening Banner Newspaper Archives, Feb 14, 1958
https://newspaperarchive.com/bennington-evening-banner-feb-14-1958-p-1/
... expressing his ardor for Ellen Axson, the preacher's daughter who bacame his first wife in 1885. .... Full Weekend Planned For Ambassadors MANCHESTER — Two ... minded voters that Bennington Dr. Djalal Abdoh, Iranian am- has ordered all ... Edith Dulles Snare is hostess to will happen if Bennington does not1 Pratt ...


Quote
http://archive.is/esTuB
.....
(https://archive.is/esTuB/acd369eb3e71dd5fb2e02bb9c3cfd6afc89638cc.jpg)

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A Pioneer Tobacco Merchant in the Orient
Search domain http://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/findingaids/thomasjamesaug.xmlhttps://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/findingaids/thomasjamesaug.xml
In 1918, Thomas married Anna Branson who died 7 months later. In 1922, he married Dorothy Quincy Hancock Read on Nov. 21, 1922. They had two children: James Augustus Thomas, Jr. and Eleanor Lansing Thomas. Thomas was the author of two books:

(https://archive.is/esTuB/a44b4b3d5cf0e9f8640361a20c3bd31c368b40e3.jpg)
https://archive.is/o/esTuB/www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=95330&relPageId=42
(https://archive.is/esTuB/341f69f3897bf5d6d30cea5923ff3b0c4430a59b.jpg)
......
WHY IS THE FOLLOWING IMPORTANT? Because David Davenport's friend, Jerome Hasty Hastings was married at the time Davenport enlisted his efforts to escort Marina and Priscilla, to Aunt of the Chair of the PIAB since April, 1963, Clark McAdams Clifford. In 1965, Clark M Clifford's first cousin JoAnn McAdams filed a lawsuit against Davenport and described Jerome Hasty as her step-father.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President%27s_Intelligence_Advisory_Board
The President's Intelligence Advisory Board (PIAB) is an advisor to the Executive Office of the President of the United States. According to its self-description, it "...provides advice to the President concerning the quality and adequacy of intelligence collection, of analysis and estimates, of counterintelligence, and of other intelligence activities."[1]

The PIAB, through its Intelligence Oversight Board (IOB), also advises the President on the legality of foreign intelligence activities.
.....PIAB chairpersons have been:[27]
......Clark Clifford   April 23, 1963   February 29, 1968....

COMPARE DETAILS IN LAST PARAGRAPH OF THIS 1954 OBIT OF CLARK CLIFFORD UNCLE WITH THE LAST PARAGRAPH OF THE LAWSUIT!

Las Vegas Optic, Monday, July 31, 1967 : Front Page
https://newspaperarchive.com/las-vegas-optic-jul-31-1967-p-1/

... the plaintiff of being mentally ill and recom mended that judicial proceedings ... pick Aliss McAdams further states in her complaint she up ran into the rear of.....
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QP7Y7FFiUSU/UXDF-gVFmBI/AAAAAAAAA8M/G8lNTcIcos4/s720/PriscillaDavenportHastyLawsuit1967_1of2.jpg)

….
1954 Obit:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OxCkEmgfcEU/UYOxYlZxEoI/AAAAAAAABB0/sszwxU8Ifgk/s720/PriscillaObitWilliamDouglasMcAdams.jpg)
…..
(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaCousinDavenportCredit1977Book.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/DavenportCIAsamBallen.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaHastingsBodyguard.jpg)
(http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/19103-did-the-cia-sheep-dip-and-orchestrate-the-tale-of-the-patsy-lee-harvey-oswald/page/4/)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/PriscillaClarkCliffordUncle.jpg)
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Jon Banks on July 09, 2019, 07:05:03 PM
Jon, Johnson certainly didn't want to find a conspiracy, we agree on that. At least some of the WC members may well have been put in place to steer the rest away if one had been found. Ironically, I don't believe it was necessary..there simply wasn't a conspiracy to be found. It's been over fifty years, the evidence has been more thoroughly scrutinised and picked over than any other murder in history, not just once but repeatedly over and over. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of independent researchers, some being highly trained professional's, have investigated the assassination far more thoroughly than the WC ever could. Result? Not a single shred of proof has surfaced that Oswald wasn't just another lone nut killer. Do you really place an ex Presidents suspicions and speculations, basically a gut feeling, above all that?

I keep an open mind on the whole thing.

At this point, I doubt it can ever be satisfactorily proven that Oswald alone killed JFK.

There’s plenty of Smoke surrounding the Conspiracy question and plenty of Holes in the evidence used to conclude Oswald alone killed JFK.

As for Johnson’s opinion, it’s historically relevant because it proves that the investigators never seriously investigated the possible Conspiratorial leads in the case. Pressure from the White House and J Edgar Hoover led to evidence being suppressed or ignored. Potential suspects died long before the government took another serious look at the Case in the 1970s.

How anyone can confidently accept the Warren Commission’s conclusions despite all the above mentioned problems, I’m not sure.

I accept that it’s plausible based on the known evidence that Oswald alone killed JFK but I’m not convinced that no one else was involved.
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Denis Pointing on July 10, 2019, 03:58:00 PM
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I keep an open mind on the whole thing.


Yeah, sure you do Jon. lol

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At this point, I doubt it can ever be satisfactorily proven that Oswald alone killed JFK.

It's already been proven to my and many others satisfaction.

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There’s plenty of Smoke surrounding the Conspiracy question and plenty of Holes in the evidence used to conclude Oswald alone killed JFK.


Oh, so it's a case of no smoke without fire then, is it?

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As for Johnson’s opinion, it’s historically relevant because it proves that the investigators never seriously investigated the possible Conspiratorial leads in the case. Pressure from the White House and J Edgar Hoover led to evidence being suppressed or ignored. Potential suspects died long before the government took another serious look at the Case in the 1970s.


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How anyone can confidently accept the Warren Commission’s conclusions despite all the above mentioned problems, I’m not sure.

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I accept that it’s plausible based on the known evidence that Oswald alone killed JFK but I’m not convinced that no one else was involved.

It's not a case of accepting the WC's final conclusions, it's a case of examing the evidence and agreeing with WC's final conclusions, huge difference.
Title: Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
Post by: Jon Banks on July 10, 2019, 04:37:04 PM


Yeah, sure you do Jon. lol

It's already been proven to my and many others satisfaction.
 

Oh, so it's a case of no smoke without fire then, is it?
 

It's not a case of accepting the WC's final conclusions, it's a case of examing the evidence and agreeing with WC's final conclusions, huge difference.

We simply don’t agree on the Warren Report but I’m glad you deleted your response about the CoverUps. Even the CIA and FBI no longer deny that there were CoverUps.

There are mountains of evidence proving that the decision to go with the “Lone Nut” explanation was decided within hours of JFK’s murder and before all the evidence had been collected and analyzed.

Johnson endorsed the “Lone Nut” narrative for National Security reasons, not because he believed it...