The entire foundation of the conspiracy movement relies on the manufacturing and planting of evidence but I have yet to see any evidence whatsoever to support this allegation and when there's no smoke there's no fire.
JohnM
Has anybody ever been questioned about that under oath, or do you expect somebody like that to just come forward?
Why don't we hear from anyone who knew someone who either planted or manufactured evidence, the amount of connections must be immense but nobody has ever said anything, why?
JohnM
Again, do you really expect somebody who was involved with any of this (if there is such a person) to simply come forward?
Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.
Benjamin Franklin
JohnM
Gerald Ford relocated JFK's Back Wound which was 4-5 inches Below the shoulder to the Base of the Neck.
Here is the official autopsy report and what do you know, Ford was just correcting their rough draft with actual medical evidence. Oops!
(https://s15.postimg.cc/3yoizjlt7/jfk_autopsy_report_base_neck.jpg)
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/appendix-09.pdf
JohnM
The FBI eventually admitted that they destroyed evidence.
I notice you have conveniently Omitted the Autopsy Face Sheet depiction of the location of the Back Wound, in addition to autopsy photos of the same back wound. These would be "actual medical evidence". Typical. Plus, the description you have underlined above describes the Damage inflicted by the bullet. NOT the Entry Point of the bullet.
Tha OP asks for manufactured or planted evidence
Nor destroyed evidence
Sorry Royell, but all your squirming won't change the fact that all Ford did was change the wording to accurately reflect what was written in the Autopsy Report. Try again.
JohnM
Thanks Mark.
The Limo was thoroughly inspected and photographed beforehand and after travelling 60 miles per hour and all the maneuvering to remove the wounded would likely imo make any blood spatter analysis difficult.
The only way we found out about the burning was through Humes himself so where can this possibly go from here?
This was more about covering the FBI's ass rather than having any affect on case against Oswald.
Yeah, it makes you wonder why the conspirators would commit the assassination in Dallas and then be forced to move the body back to where they were more in control when the simple alternative of performing the murder on the other side of the country with no problems would have to be a no brainer.
Well they can't Xray under the boxes, so the boxes had to be moved at some point.
You bring up some interesting discrepancies but as I have pointed out nothing above would have any significant impact on the prosecution's case.
JohnM
Thanks for the heads up Bill. My post removed accordingly. Oppps better inform the others who failed to comply too. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the heads up Bill. My post removed accordingly. Oppps better inform the others who failed to comply too. Keep up the good work.
I've altered the thread title to accommodate your post, sorry for the inconvenience.
JohnM
Again, do you really expect somebody who was involved with any of this (if there is such a person) to simply come forward?
Not a problem.....Mark V (and maybe others) had mentioned the note destruction anyway.
Not a problem.....Mark V (and maybe others) had mentioned the note destruction anyway.
Hang on, you can't just answer my question with another question, it doesn't work like that.
I just want to know if anybody has admitted to planting or manufacturing evidence, can you provide a list?
JohnM
Thumb1:
I don't think Williams wanted to admit to seeing Oswald, so what else was left to say?
JohnM
Williams didn't want to get involved, it's not Rocket Science.
JohnM
The entire foundation of the conspiracy movement relies on the manufacturing and planting of evidence but I have yet to see any evidence whatsoever to support this allegation and when there's no smoke there's no fire.
JohnM
The entire foundation of the conspiracy movement relies on the manufacturing and planting of evidence but I have yet to see any evidence whatsoever to support this allegation and when there's no smoke there's no fire.Offhand - and not really directly related to your question - we have the so-called "Hunt letter" that Oswald allegedly wrote to either E. Howard Hunt or, more likely, the Texas millionaire H.L. Hunt. The HSCA concluded that it was likely a forgery and a Soviet KGB defector said it was created by the KGB.
JohnM
The entire foundation of the conspiracy movement relies on the manufacturing and planting of evidence but I have yet to see any evidence whatsoever to support this allegation and when there's no smoke there's no fire.
JohnM
Again, do you really expect somebody who was involved with any of this (if there is such a person) to simply come forward?The usual defense of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy.
Offhand - and not really directly related to your question - we have the so-called "Hunt letter" that Oswald allegedly wrote to either E. Howard Hunt or, more likely, the Texas millionaire H.L. Hunt. The HSCA concluded that it was likely a forgery and a Soviet KGB defector said it was created by the KGB.
And the "Pedro Charles" letters that connected Oswald to the Cuban DGI agent Pedro Charles. Hoover and the FBI concluded that they were a hoax and probably done by an anti-Castro person or persons in an attempt to implicate Castro in the assassination.
The latter incident has been used by some conspiracy people to claim that the CIA - or elements of it - were behind the letters and is evidence of a conspiracy.
Why don't we hear from anyone who knew someone who either planted or manufactured evidence, the amount of connections must be immense but nobody has ever said anything, why?
JohnM
The usual defense of a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy.
And we know this is alleged Conspiracy is a large conspiracy. You need one to fake and/or alter all the evidence that was alleged to have been faked.
Also, because the CTers don?t give a complete list of all the evidence that was probably fake and all the people who were intimidated. Or a list of the number of people they think would think be needed to fake all this evidence. Because this would make all too apparent their belief in a Large-Secret-Enduring Conspiracy.
Those 26 volumes can be found in the " Fiction " section of the library .Not really as only 8000 sets were ever printed.
There is NO doubt that the Minox "light meter" was manufactured as the DPD to their credit in this case refused to change their statement that they found a Minox CAMERA in the Paines's garage.
How does a camera become a light meter once in the FBI's custody?
How does a camera become a light meter once in the FBI's custody?
This is a short and stumpy Minox light meter.
(https://www.rockycameras.com/ekmps/shops/rockcameras/images/minox-light-meter-with-case-chain-in-silver-for-minox-spy-camera-39.99-43624-p.jpg)
Here is a long and slender Minox spy camera.
(https://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2017/3/12/3/d/6/3d663098-0744-11e7-8128-5d8ed3634ada.jpg)
Slam dunk!
And this here is a photo of the stuff taken from the Paine residence and the object in the red box is a Minox light meter.
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1WDSycy/ruth_light_meter.jpg)
JohnM
Wow, 4 pages later and I see the usual baseless accusations but where are the names of anybody associated with manufacturing or planting evidence, someone must have done it?
JohnM
This is a short and stumpy Minox light meter.
(https://www.rockycameras.com/ekmps/shops/rockcameras/images/minox-light-meter-with-case-chain-in-silver-for-minox-spy-camera-39.99-43624-p.jpg)
Here is a long and slender Minox spy camera.
(https://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2017/3/12/3/d/6/3d663098-0744-11e7-8128-5d8ed3634ada.jpg)
And this here is a photo of the stuff taken from the Paine residence and the object in the red box is a Minox light meter.
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1WDSycy/ruth_light_meter.jpg)
JohnM
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/ford20moves20back20wound.jpg)
INTERVIEW WITH FORMER FBI AGENT JAMES SIBERT (JUNE 30, 2005)
Guilty men sometimes go Free because some police officers think they will get away with tampering with evidence.
The Henry Wade era of Dallas Law Enforcement is known for widespread evidence manipulation.
NBC News:
?The new DA and other Wade detractors say the cases won under Wade were riddled with shoddy investigations, evidence was ignored and defense lawyers were kept in the dark. They note that the promotion system under Wade rewarded prosecutors for high conviction rates.
In the case of James Lee Woodard ? released in April after 27 years in prison for a murder DNA showed he didn't commit ? Wade's office withheld from defense attorneys photographs of tire tracks at the crime scene that didn't match Woodard's car.
"Now in hindsight, we're finding lots of places where detectives in those cases, they kind of trimmed the corners to just get the case done," said Michelle Moore, a Dallas County public defender and president of the Innocence Project of Texas. "Whether that's the fault of the detectives or the DA's, I don't know."
'Win at all costs'
John Stickels, a University of Texas at Arlington criminology professor and a director of the Innocence Project of Texas, blames a culture of "win at all costs."
"When someone was arrested, it was assumed they were guilty," he said. "I think prosecutors and investigators basically ignored all evidence to the contrary and decided they were going to convict these guys...?
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25917791/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/after-dallas-das-death-convictions-undone/
No doubt that overzealous prosecutors have omitted potentially exculpatory evidence from the defense during discovery in an attempt to obtain convictions.
I'm sure that cops have also outright fabricated evidence to get a conviction.
However, in what is probably the highest profile and most exhaustively researched and closely scrutinized murder in history, I find it impossible to believe that there was largescale planting of evidence.
And unless there was a huge amount of evidence tampering and planting, it's impossible to believe Saint Patsy was an innocent man.
No doubt that overzealous prosecutors have omitted potentially exculpatory evidence from the defense during discovery in an attempt to obtain convictions.
I'm sure that cops have also outright fabricated evidence to get a conviction.
However, in what is probably the highest profile and most exhaustively researched and closely scrutinized murder in history, I find it impossible to believe that there was largescale planting of evidence.
And unless there was a huge amount of evidence tampering and planting, it's impossible to believe Saint Patsy was an innocent man.
:D
The most investigated murder in history and 54 years later there's still nobody who knows anybody who has said that they know of any tampering of evidence?
This basic concept is central to most of the CT arguments and yet we still have zero evidence that anybody did anything.
Face it, you all have no answers and after the endless accusations all we are left with is Oswald buying a rifle and killing the President.
But please prove me wrong and present some evidence that just may convince me that someone else was involved.
JohnM
:D
The most investigated murder in history and 54 years later there's still nobody who knows anybody who has said that they know of any tampering of evidence?
This basic concept is central to most of the CT arguments and yet we still have zero evidence that anybody did anything.
Face it, you all have no answers and after the endless accusations all we are left with is Oswald buying a rifle and killing the President.
But please prove me wrong and present some evidence that just may convince me that someone else was involved.
JohnM
Face it -- you have NO chain of custody for all the major evidence. When that happens you cannot say anything was relevant since you can't show that it was found where it was claimed to have been found.
It's good of you to continue to admit that LHO was a patsy. 👍
Thanks Rob, so now we have more problems which involved even more people and still you have no evidence.
Surely there would be a deathbed confession, or someone would write a book, or someone's father, mother, uncle, brother, friend, lover, etc would say something, where Rob where is some real evidence?
You have alleged some MASSIVE conspiracy but it all goes nowhere if you got no one to blame!
Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.
Benjamin Franklin
JohnM
"They've taken me in because of the fact that I lived in the Soviet Union. I'm just a patsy!"
Lee Harvey Oswald
JohnM
https://awoljustice.wordpress.com/2017/05/24/henry-wade-of-dallas-county/
Henry Wade of Dallas County
"The infamous Henry Wade was district attorney of Dallas County from 1951-1987. He had a reputation for conviction at any cost and most of the exonerations Dallas is discovering are because of his tenure. He has been found to have intimidated witnesses, tampered with evidence, hid evidence which would have proven innocence, and sent a number of people to jail and even death row under questionable circumstances for personal political gain..
Under Mr. Wade?s tenure, the joke was ?Anybody can convict a guilty person. Convicting the innocent is the trick.?
He wrote a memo instructing his prosecutors: ?Do not take Jews, Negroes, Dagos, Mexicans or members of any minority race on a jury, no matter how rich or well-educated.? Because of him, Dallas leads the nation in overturned wrongful convictions.
We have a harrowingly detailed description of how Mr. Wade engineered the electrocution of an innocent man in D-Magazine, Tommy Lee Walker. This was not that unusual but having the details discussed is. If this does not bother you, you do not have a heart.
Mr. Wade spawned a generation of district attorneys who had tremendous personal power but who now find their reputations tarnished for improper behavior such as Judge John Roach of Collin County and Joe Shannon of Tarrant County.
The best way to resolve this is by digging up these old cases and exposing them. We can start by renaming the Dallas Juvenal Justice Center for someone else.
:D
The most investigated murder in history and 54 years later there's still nobody who knows anybody who has said that they know of any tampering of evidence?
This basic concept is central to most of the CT arguments and yet we still have zero evidence that anybody did anything.
Face it, you all have no answers and after the endless accusations all we are left with is Oswald buying a rifle and killing the President.
But please prove me wrong and present some evidence that just may convince me that someone else was involved.
JohnM
I think it?s clear by now that several significant pieces of evidence in the JFK assassination were mishandled by the Dallas authorities.
Whether it was intentional or just sloppy police work is the question. I don?t have an answer but it can?t be ruled out that some evidence was planted...
Yeah, Glee keeps calling him "Saint Patsy". Good of him to admit this.
"They've taken me in because of the fact that I lived in the Soviet Union. I'm just a patsy!"
Lee Harvey Oswald
JohnM
No it can't be completely ruled out.
But after 55 years, no one has admitted to planting evidence, nor has anyone been able to prove that any evidence was planted.
There?s enough inconsistencies to say it?s ?Probable? that some evidence was tampered with.
What evidence was 'probably' tampered with and does the 'probable' tampering of whatever you come up with negate the totality of the evidence against Saint Patsy ?
But first let's hear what evidence you think was 'probably' tampered with.
Examples have been posted throughout this thread.
What evidence do YOU think was probably tampered with ?
Repost since you don?t want to read the whole thread:
- The paper sack allegedly used to transport the rifle to TSBD
http://dealeyplazauk.org.uk/pdfArticles/The%20Paper%20bag%20that%20never%20was!.pdf (http://dealeyplazauk.org.uk/pdfArticles/The%20Paper%20bag%20that%20never%20was!.pdf)
- The "Magic bullet" discovered at Parkland Hospital
https://history-matters.com/essays/frameup/EvenMoreMagical/EvenMoreMagical.htm (https://history-matters.com/essays/frameup/EvenMoreMagical/EvenMoreMagical.htm)
- The Palm Print that the FBI didn't find until after Oswald's death
http://www.garvandwane.com/conspiracy/oswalds_palm_prints.html (http://www.garvandwane.com/conspiracy/oswalds_palm_prints.html)
- Oswald's wallet with the incriminating Hiddell ID. Was it found at the Tippit murder scene or did he have it when he was arrested?
http://jfkfacts.org/oswalds-wallet-planted-at-the-tippit-crime-scene/ (http://jfkfacts.org/oswalds-wallet-planted-at-the-tippit-crime-scene/)
- The broken chain of evidence for the Shells found near the Tippit murder scene
http://jfkfacts.org/jerry-hills-lies-heart-tippit-shooting/ (http://jfkfacts.org/jerry-hills-lies-heart-tippit-shooting/)
I'm sure there's more but those are a few of the most well known inconsistencies.
The closest anyone has come to admitting to planting (or staging) of evidence is the Wallet mystery. Ofc Croy says an unknown person handed him Oswald's wallet at the Tippit murder scene.
So this list is "evidence YOU think was probably tampered with," as Howard asked you.
I'm a bit confused because I thought you had been trying to disassociate yourself with being a full-blown kook:
- "I'm a Left-leaning guy who rejects most Conspiracy Theories"
- "I would never argue that Oswald couldn?t have done it all alone
and I haven?t seen many plausible arguments that he was framed"- "I love the John McAdams site and I?ve read portions of
Reclaiming History but not the entire book"- "I prefer not to read Conspiracy Theory books"
- "I'm not endorsing the idea that Kennedy's murder was an inside job"
- "I personally am about 50/50 or so on the Conspiracy question
in the Kennedy assassination"- "I accept the plausibility of Oswald alone shooting JFK"
But after 55 years, no one has admitted to planting evidence, nor has anyone been able to prove that any evidence was planted.
And considering the amount of evidence that would have to be planted for Saint Patsy to be innocent...well, you do the math.
Jon, do you actually believe the items on the list you posted are examples of 'probable' evidence tampering ?
Personally, I think they're paranoid kook delusions.
You?re welcome to tell me why the examples I gave are wrong.Jon,
Name-calling may make you feel good but it doesn?t advance your argument.
I have an open mind and I await your explanations for the examples I cited...
You?re welcome to tell me why the examples I gave are wrong.Alright, I'll ignore your avoidance of stating whether you believe the examples cited are 'probable' evidence of tampering.
Name-calling may make you feel good but it doesn?t advance your argument.
I have an open mind and I await your explanations for the examples I cited...
Speaking of delusional kookery, here come the fantasy strawman conspirators again.
Why would CE 399 even have to exist prior to the assassination, given that there's no evidence that it ever went through Kennedy or Connally?
Tomlinson found a bullet on an unrelated stretcher at Parkland Hospital and gave it to O.P. Wright. Wright said that the bullet he got from Tomlinson was pointed.
Speaking of delusional kookery, here come the fantasy strawman conspirators again.
Why would CE 399 even have to exist prior to the assassination, given that there's no evidence that it ever went through Kennedy or Connally?
Tomlinson found a bullet on an unrelated stretcher at Parkland Hospital and gave it to O.P. Wright. Wright said that the bullet he got from Tomlinson was pointed.
Speaking of delusional kookery, here come the fantasy strawman conspirators again.
Tomlinson found a bullet on an unrelated stretcher at Parkland Hospital and gave it to O.P. Wright.
Wright said that the bullet he got from Tomlinson was pointed.
Either Oswald fired CE399 or someone else did.From the Warren Report... http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/tomlinso.htm
An unrelated stretcher?
From a conspiracy book. Nuff said.
Mr. SPECTER. And at the time we started our discussion, it was your recollection at that point that the bullet came off of stretcher A, was it not?This testimony demonstrates that there was just pure speculation involved on which stretcher that CE 399 was found.
Mr. TOMLINSON. B.
Mr. SPECTER. Pardon me, stretcher B, but it was stretcher A that you took off of the elevator.
Mr. TOMLINSON. I believe that's right.
Mr. SPECTER. But there is no question but that at the time we started our discussion a few minutes before the court reporter started to take it down, that your best recollection was that it was stretcher A which came off of the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes, I believe that was it--yes.
Earlier testimony
Mr. SPECTER. --- What happened when that gentleman came to use the men's room?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, he pushed the stretcher out from the wall to get in, and then when he came out he just walked off and didn't push the stretcher back up against the wall, so I pushed it out of the way where we would have clear area in front of the elevator.
further testimony
Mr. SPECTER. You say you can't really take an oath today to be sure whether it was stretcher A or stretcher B that you took off the elevator?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, today or any other day, I'm just not sure of it, whether it was A or B that I took off.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, has your recollection always been the same about the situation, that is, today, and when you talked to the Secret Service man and when you talked to the FBI man?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes; I told him that I wasn't sure.
Mr. SPECTER. So, what you told the Secret Service man was just about the same thing as you have told me today?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. When I first started to ask you about this, Mr. Tomlinson, you initially identified stretcher A as the one which came off of the elevator car?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes; I think it's just like that
Mr. SPECTER. And, then, when
Mr. TOMLINSON. (interrupting). Here's the deal--I rolled that thing off, we got a call, and went to second floor, picked the man up and brought him down. He went on over across, to clear out of the emergency area, but across from it, and picked up two pints of, I believe it was, blood. He told me to hold for him, he had to get right back to the operating room, so I held, and the minute he hit there, we took off for the second floor and I came. back to the ground. Now, I don't know how many people went through that---I don't know how many people hit them--I don't know anything about what could have happened to them in between the time I was gone, and I made several trips before I discovered the bullet on the end of it there.
Mr. SPECTER. You think, then, that this could have been either, you took out of the elevator as you sit here at the moment, or you just can't be sure?
Mr. TOMLINSON. It could be, but I can't be positive or positively sure I think it was A, but I'm not sure.
I admit that even Zombie Saint Patsy could figure out what year Benavides died and that the forum's resident dunce can't.
What evidence was 'probably' tampered with and does the 'probable' tampering of whatever you come up with negate the totality of the evidence against Saint Patsy ?
But first let's hear what evidence you think was 'probably' tampered with.
Either Oswald fired CE399 or someone else did.
An unrelated stretcher?
From a conspiracy book. Nuff said.
JohnM
From the Warren Report... http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/tomlinso.htm
This testimony demonstrates that there was just pure speculation involved on which stretcher that CE 399 was found.
What happened [in this stretcher moving] before the individual ['an intern or doctor' or just someone in laboratory garb] entered the men's room?
Wouldn't a stretcher that just carried a guy who had been all shot up have [at least some] blood on it?
CE 399 [traceable to CE 2766] could have been fired into cotton wads and planted as part of a conspiracy. Seems like I've mentioned this before ;)
could have been fired into cotton wads and planted as part of a conspiracy.
There?s no proof that CE 399 struck JFK or Governor Connally and the officers who discovered the Stetcher bullet were unable to identify CE 399 as the same bullet:
Wright?s assertion that CE 399 was not the bullet he had seen was supported by another FBI memo, dated 20 June 1964 and declassified several decades after the assassination: ?neither DARRELL C. TOMLINSON ? nor O.P. WRIGHT ? can identify bullet.?
The question is how does Iacoletti or yourself determined that the stretcher was unrelated?
Btw there is no doubt that the bullet found was a complete bullet but how did anybody know at that point in time the conditions of the bodies and if the bodies contained bullets or parts of bullets? So what you apparently believe is that your conspirators just decided to plant a bullet that precisely fits the wounds and wasn't one too many, did they have the Lotto results too?
CE399 was flattened on one side indicating that it had to have struck a solid object at an angle and we know by Connally's linear type back wound that it must have been caused by a tumbling bullet.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Jhs8bMPW/ce399_end.jpg)
JohnM
So what you apparently believe is that your conspirators just decided to plant a bullet that precisely fits the wounds
What exactly makes you so sure that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 is the one that was found (and thus - according to you - planted) at Parkland Hospital?
Don't confuse conspirators with lone gunman. Conspirators wouldn't be looking for the magic bullet which entered and exited bodies 7 times and came out on a stretcher! We would say that is impossible! After reading the reports on the magic bullet, it should have been found and removed from Connally's leg if true - it should have been found on the operating table! If this were not the case, it would have been a nasty bruise to his leg, non- penetrating and then ending up rolling on the stretcher where it was assumed to be found later. Which way do you want it? That is the path of the magic bullet the WC reported! I mean really! The doctor's didn't remove bullet from the leg? If it is a 4th bullet, no way one gunman could have done that with his bolt action carcano!
The doctor's didn't remove bullet from the leg? If it is a 4th bullet, no way one gunman could have done that with his bolt action carcano!
Just tell me how you think they could positively identify the bullet, did they mark it, take a photograph, memorize the microscopic striations, do a chemical analysis or what exactly?
JohnM
JohnM
Not to mention that the conspirators would somehow have to know that Tomlinson would find a bullet and then substitute CE399 into the evidence.
How would the conspirators know that Tomlinson would find a bullet unless Tomlinson was one of the conspirators ? And if Tomlinson was a bullet planting conspirator why the heck did he plant a bullet that wasn't identical to the ammo Saint Patsy used ?
The entire 'CE399 was planted' narrative is a bunch of delusional kookery easily dispelled through the application of common sense.
Unfortunately, common sense isn't a trait exhibited by the kooks, but at least the crap they spew is good for a laugh.
CE399 was flattened on one side indicating that it had to have struck a solid object at an angle and we know by Connally's linear type back wound that it must have been caused by a tumbling bullet.The only thing that that falls flat is that argument.
In the midst of your rambling incoherent babble, at least you got something right.
Since the conspirators would have no way to know if a bullet was recovered from Connally or JFK, then planting an additional bullet into the evidence would indeed mean that more than 3 shots were fired and cast doubt on Saint Patsy's ability to do so in the allotted time frame.
In essence, the planting of an additional bullet would hurt the lone shooter narrative, so why would the conspirators do that ?
You kooks aren't too bright.
In the midst of your rambling incoherent babble, at least you got something right.
Since the conspirators would have no way to know if a bullet was recovered from Connally or JFK, then planting an additional bullet into the evidence would indeed mean that more than 3 shots were fired and cast doubt on Saint Patsy's ability to do so in the allotted time frame.
In essence, the planting of an additional bullet would hurt the lone shooter narrative, so why would the conspirators do that ?
You kooks aren't too bright.
Softpoint would have ripped him apart and mushroomed when it hit a rib.
The PBS Nova documentary (1988?) claimed the rib was pulverized. They suggested that the bullet found on the stretcher was this magic bullet.
They didn't even bother to dig out the one from the pavement - it dissipated into thin air (powder) and became street sweeper material - not a trace recoverd lol!
| The Shot That Missed (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/shot-missed.html) |
The so-called first bullet disappeared as did the one you would expect to have found lodged in Connally's leg to similar match the found one in Kennedy. There was none recovered, not even a fragment. It should have looked similar to Kennedy's if it was the same type fired by the same gun. Naturally it would have had different deformation as it didn't strike a skull first!"
Consider an expert lone sniper wouldn't be switching different types of bullet tips and casings would he? You like Remington or Winchester, you use one or the other that you think is best - not both"! He bought different boxes and used the remnants from the shooting range in a random manner! Mixing casings? Laughable evidence! Conspiracy? Most definitely the evidence points in that direction! No shots came from the sniper's nest in my opinion.
Where is the bullet that entered Connally's leg? Did it disappear into thin air? Was it recovered?
No shots came from the sniper's nest in my opinion.
Alright, I'll ignore your avoidance of stating whether you believe the examples cited are 'probable' evidence of tampering.
Let's start with the 'probable' planting of the magic bullet.
How on earth would the conspirators know whether any bullets were found in JFK or Connally at the time the 'magic bullet' would have had to be planted ?
They couldn't.
If a bullet was found in JFK and/or Connally that would mean that Saint Patsy would have had to get off even more than the 3 shots that the CT's already doubt he could have done. More shots = less chance Saint Patsy was a lone assassin. So why would they plant an additional bullet ?
Additionally, think about what the planting would entail.
Did the conspirators fire CE399 into some cotton wadding or water before the assassination and have it laying around somewhere so that Ruby or whoever could plant it ?
Did they have a bullet planting team waiting in Parkland ?
And if you're going to claim they substituted CE399 for the bullet Tomlinson found, you have to explain how they knew Tomlinson was going to find a bullet, or was he part of the conspiracy too ?
So I ask you, is the magic bullet planting scenario 'probable', or is it delusional kookery ?
What do you think, Jon ?
Either Oswald fired CE399 or someone else did.
An unrelated stretcher?
From a conspiracy book. Nuff said.
The question is how does Iacoletti or yourself determined that the stretcher was unrelated?
Btw there is no doubt that the bullet found was a complete bullet but how did anybody know at that point in time the conditions of the bodies and if the bodies contained bullets or parts of bullets?
So what you apparently believe is that your conspirators just decided to plant a bullet that precisely fits the wounds and wasn't one too many, did they have the Lotto results too?
CE399 was flattened on one side indicating that it had to have struck a solid object at an angle
and we know by Connally's linear type back wound that it must have been caused by a tumbling bullet.
Just tell me how you think they could positively identify the bullet, did they mark it, take a photograph, memorize the microscopic striations, do a chemical analysis or what exactly?
That's just personal incredulity though.
Howard, regarding testing bullets fired into cotton, don't the testers have to know the precise distance to the target before they can adjust the 'gunpowder load' (or whatever they call it) to make up the for the much shorter muzzle to barrel-of-cotton distance?
Not to mention that the conspirators would somehow have to know that Tomlinson would find a bullet and then substitute CE399 into the evidence.
How would the conspirators know that Tomlinson would find a bullet unless Tomlinson was one of the conspirators ? And if Tomlinson was a bullet planting conspirator why the heck did he plant a bullet that wasn't identical to the ammo Saint Patsy used ?
The entire 'CE399 was planted' narrative is a bunch of delusional kookery easily dispelled through the application of common sense.
Unfortunately, common sense isn't a trait exhibited by the kooks, but at least the crap they spew is good for a laugh.
Yes, the bullet was recovered. No, it didn't disappear into thin air. The bullet currently resides in the National Archive.
Your opinion that no shots came from the sniper's nest is contradicted by two witnesses that saw a gunman firing from there, another witness that saw a gun barrel being withdrawn from the window, 3 witnesses on the floor below the sniper's nest that testified they heard shots come from there, and 3 spent cartridges found on the floor in the sniper's nest.
Your opinion is worthless horsecrap.
Isn't every "I don't believe conspirators would have done that" / "I don't believe Oswald would have done that" argument a personal incredulity fallacy though?
So a Carcano round fired into pavement will bury itself as if the asphalt were rubber? The Haggs found that the bullet disintegrated.
I have no idea, Bill. Guess it would depend on varying factors, such as the amount and density of the cotton or whatever substance that's being fired into.
My point is that the varying factors would be unknown by CottonMan conspirators, going in.
Depends. The bullet struck a glancing blow along the rib. Was it tumbling or slowed down. A bullet that stuck a rib nose-on at full-velocity is not what happened to Connally according to the WCR. It's instead what some critics claim happened.I finally found a youtube location for the 1988 Nova Film! It is well hidden amongst all the threads.
If you mean the 2013 PBS Special "Cold Case JFK", the Haggs are merely career ballistics-experts, absentmindedly conducting meaningless tests using the exact same type of rifle and ammunition that the WC said Oswald used.
So a Carcano round fired into pavement will bury itself as if the asphalt were rubber? The Haggs found that the bullet disintegrated.
A M-C bullet hitting hard tissue (like the thick skull bone) nose-on would have a different outcome than the same type of M-C bullet passing through soft tissue and then hitting a thin bone (like the fifth rib) after supposedly being slowed down and tumbling.
Rather than going Rube Goldberg, maybe watch the 2013 PBS Special to learn from the Haggs.
I finally found a youtube location for the 1988 Nova Film! It is well hidden amongst all the threads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oHAbCu_LbM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oHAbCu_LbM)
I couldn't imagine the damage a tumbling bullet must have done when the above documentary suggested the pulverized rib (20:20)was removed from Connally's body. If the bullet was tumbling as suggested, then there should not have been any problem extracting this low velocity projectile from Connally's thigh! Instead it disintegrated or become the pristine bullet found near a nearby stretcher (17:38) and passed to a forensic lab through 5 different people!
With respect to the bullet that hit the pavement, did they take pictures of the crater it made? How were we made to believe that it existed? By eyewitness testimony only? Or picture as well?
Fantasy strawman conspirators aside, is there any evidence that CE 399 was the bullet found at Parkland or that CE 399 ever went through Kennedy or Connally?
Here we go again, either CE399 was found at Parkland or CE399 was planted, which again leads to your massive conspiracy that for some reason you don't want to acknowledge.
JohnM
either CE399 was found at Parkland or CE399 was planted
Again, why do you assume that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital to begin with?
What evidence do you have that CE399 was never at Parkland?
JohnM
Nope, this "prove a negative" game ain't gonna work!
You basically claim the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was found as Parkland. You need to show it actually was. Can you?
If you think there's something wrong with the evidence then be specific.
JohnM
Stop playing silly games.
What makes you think the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland? Be specific!
Stop playing silly games.
What makes you think the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland? Be specific!
Here we go again, either CE399 was found at Parkland or CE399 was planted, which again leads to your massive conspiracy that for some reason you don't want to acknowledge.
JohnM
So you can't show that CE 399 was actually found at PH. Got it.
How dare you accuse me of playing games, you insignificant Troll.
Where did CE399 come from?
JohnM
So you can't show that CE 399 was actually found at PH. Got it.
That wasn't the debate, can you prove CE399 was planted or not?
JohnM
you insignificant Troll.
You were looking in the mirror when you wrote that, right?
Where did CE399 come from?
That's what I am trying to find out.
So again, why do you assume that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital to begin with?
So you can't show that CE 399 was actually found at PH. Got it.
Thumb1:
That wasn't the debate,
Of course that is the debate, or at least part of it. You just don't want to deal with it.
can you prove CE399 was planted or not?
Let's establish first that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was actually ever at Parkland Hospital to begin with, shall we?
Can you prove that?
Bump
Ray,
It seems Mytton has abandoned the thread he himself started. Go figure!
Bump
Let' see what the Topic thread is? Hmmmm
Topic: In 54 years has anyone ever admitted to manufacturing or planting evidence?
You can't answer the OP so instead you deflect and demand that I jump through your totally off topic hoops, a typical dishonest CT tactic.
JohnM
My question was perfectly valid? you just don't want to answer it... So much for being a "honest" LN
So my honesty is based on an answer which you don't know and doesn't even apply to this thread, WOW!
Btw if you were honest you would at least consider that nobody saying anything that in anyway satisfies the OP is evidence that needs to be considered, but instead this tactic of attacking me just because you have no answers is a little juvenile don't you think?
JohnM
This is particularly startling and noteworthy when one stops to realize that those making the allegation of conspiracy necessarily have the burden of proof. I mean, it makes no sense for A to say to B, ?I allege that there is a conspiracy here. Now you prove there isn?t.? The alleger always, by definition, has the burden of proof.
RHVB
JohnM
You can't prove that CE 399 was found at Parkland hospital...
But it was found there. You might claim it was planted but IT WAS FOUND THERE. Are you aware of Darrell Tomlinson's testimony?
What testimony are you referring to?
But it was found there. You might claim it was planted but IT WAS FOUND THERE. Are you aware of Darrell Tomlinson's testimony?
March 20, 1964 at Parkland Hospital.
Where in Tomlinson?s testimony did he identify CE 399 as the Parkland Bullet?
The FBI made a great effort to try to cover up the fact that neither Wright nor Tomlinson believed CE 399 was the Parkland stretcher bullet
This is particularly startling and noteworthy when one stops to realize that those making the allegation of conspiracy necessarily have the burden of proof. I mean, it makes no sense for A to say to B, ?I allege that there is a conspiracy here. Now you prove there isn?t.? The alleger always, by definition, has the burden of proof.
RHVB
JohnM
Poor misguided Johnny,
I am not making any allegation or claim.
I am perfectly willing to accept CE399 as authentic evidence after you prove that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 is the actual bullet that was found by Tomlinson at Parkland Hospital.
Can you prove that, John?
If you can't answer the OP then just say so.
JohnM
This is particularly startling and noteworthy when one stops to realize that those making the allegation of conspiracy necessarily have the burden of proof. I mean, it makes no sense for A to say to B, ?I allege that there is a conspiracy here. Now you prove there isn?t.? The alleger always, by definition, has the burden of proof.
RHVB
Bugliosi finally got something right. Pity that he couldn't meet his own burden of proof.
Bugliosi presents a mountain of evidence and you reply with a tiny list of self serving objections.
JohnM
Bugliosi presents a mountain of evidence and you reply with a tiny list of self serving objections.
That wasn't the debate, can you prove CE399 was planted or not?
JohnM
This is particularly startling and noteworthy when one stops to realize that those making the allegation of conspiracy necessarily have the burden of proof. I mean, it makes no sense for A to say to B, ?I allege that there is a conspiracy here. Now you prove there isn?t.? The alleger always, by definition, has the burden of proof.
RHVB
JohnM