JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Tom Graves on November 26, 2025, 09:04:27 PM
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New Poll: In which direction is Rosemary Willis (wearing red dress and white sweatshirt) looking in Z-145?
This is Z-145:
(https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z145.jpg)
(https://www.jfk-online.com/rosemary-willis-stop-dunckel-2.gif)
1) Directly at the limousine
2) In the general direction of the limousine
3) Directly at the TSBD
4) In the general direction of the TSBD
5) I, like Benjamin Cole, have no you-know-what clue.
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In which direction is Rosemary Willis (wearing red dress and white sweatshirt) looking in Z-145?
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z145.jpg
1) Directly at the limousine
2) In the general direction of the limousine
3) Directly at the TSBD
4) In the general direction of the TSBD
5) I, like Benjamin Cole, have no you-know-what clue.
I vote for # 4.
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New Poll: In which direction is Rosemary Willis (wearing red dress and white sweatshirt) looking in Z-145?
(https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z145.jpg)
(https://www.jfk-online.com/rosemary-willis-stop-dunckel-2.gif)
1) Directly at the limousine
2) In the general direction of the limousine
3) Directly at the TSBD
4) In the general direction of the TSBD
It appears to me that her shoulders show that her torso is heading in the general direction of Zapruder's camera. And her head appears to be turned to the right about 90-degrees such that her face is pointed over her right shoulder. There is no way to know from this image where her eyes might be directed. However if she were looking in the same direction that her face is facing, then she could be looking in the general direction of the TSBD and also at this same time she could be looking in the general direction of the limo. In other words, from Rosemary's POV, both the limo and the TSBD would appear to be in her vision if she was looking in the same direction that her head appears to be turned.
Later edit: Take a look at the Willis 4 photo to give yourself an idea of what Rosemary might have been looking at. Of course her eyes could have been looking further right and up. But I don't believe that we have any way of knowing this with any certainty.
Second later edit: What I find interesting is, when looking at the excellent animated GIF by Gerda Dunkel, it appears to me that Rosemary continues to look in the direction of the TSBD (instead of following the limo); which I think strongly suggests that Rosemary actually was looking at the TSBD. Then, after about 3.8 seconds (at about Z214), Rosemary finally snaps her head about 90-degrees to the left and faces towards the limo's position at that point in time.
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Rosemary Willis appears to be trying to get a glimpse of the Presidential limo, and being excited and shorter, is running along to get a view of that.
She does not appear to be reacting to a sudden loud noise, and no one else around her does either.
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Rosemary Willis appears to be trying to get a glimpse of the Presidential limo, and being excited and shorter, is running along to get a view of that.
She does not appear to be reacting to a sudden loud noise, and no one else around her does either.
The question is about Z-145.
Please review the four five possible answers I spelled out in the op.
Are you capable of choosing one of those answers?
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TG-
Yes, I am "incapable" of choosing one of the four answers.
It could be any of the four.
A divine being, omniscient, might be able to provide you with an answer. I cannot.
Perhaps you have divined the answer yourself.
Pray tell.
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TG-
Yes, I am "incapable" of choosing one of the four answers.
It could be any of the four.
A divine being, omniscient, might be able to provide you with an answer. I cannot.
Perhaps you have divined the answer yourself.
Pray tell.
Dear Benjamin "Yes, We Have No Bananas Today" Cole,
I didn't ask if you were incapable; I asked if you were capable.
Regardless, why are you even here?
-- Tom
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TG-
"Why are you even here?"
To kneel at your knee, and imbibe your omniscience.
In the broader scheme of things, we could start with the European immigration to North America, born off religious intolerance, or perhaps we need to start with the migration of Cro-Magnon man from Western Asia into Europe, and then the Teutons and Angles into England.
Of course, there is no end to this explanation, back into the very murks of the start of life on earth, and the big bang theory and then before that....
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TG-
"Why are you even here?"
To kneel at your knee, and imbibe your omniscience.
In the broader scheme of things, we could start with the European immigration to North America, born off religious intolerance, or perhaps we need to start with the migration of Cro-Magnon man from Western Asia into Europe, and then the Teutons and Angles into England.
Of course, there is no end to this explanation, back into the very murks of the start of life on earth, and the big bang theory and then before that....
You forgot the flash-bang and smoke in the bushes.
Regardless, I've added another possible answer in the poll.
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Dude:
It is the "GK smoke-and-bang show."
As you are a man of divine and infinite capacities, tell us who or what Rosemary Willis is looking at Z-145.
And did Billy Barty have a foot stool, when he fired upon JFK from behind the stockade fence?
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[Please] tell us who or what Rosemary Willis is looking at Z-145.
I can tell you what she wanted to look at but wasn't: The Limo.
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It appears to me that her shoulders show that her torso is heading in the general direction of Zapruder's camera. And her head appears to be turned to the right about 90-degrees such that her face is pointed over her right shoulder. There is no way to know from this image where her eyes might be directed. However if she were looking in the same direction that her face is facing, then she could be looking in the general direction of the TSBD and also at this same time she could be looking in the general direction of the limo. In other words, from Rosemary's POV, both the limo and the TSBD would appear to be in her vision if she was looking in the same direction that her head appears to be turned.
Later edit: Take a look at the Willis 4 photo to give yourself an idea of what Rosemary might have been looking at. Of course her eyes could have been looking further right and up. But I don't believe that we have any way of knowing this with any certainty.
Second later edit: What I find interesting is, when looking at the excellent animated GIF by Gerda Dunkel, it appears to me that Rosemary continues to look in the direction of the TSBD (instead of following the limo); which I think strongly suggests that Rosemary actually was looking at the TSBD. Then, after about 3.8 seconds (at about Z214), Rosemary finally snaps her head about 90-degrees to the left and faces towards the limo's position at that point in time.
[emphasis added]
Thanks, Charles.
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New Poll: In which direction is Rosemary Willis (wearing red dress and white sweatshirt) looking in Z-145?
This is Z-145:
(https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z145.jpg)
(https://www.jfk-online.com/rosemary-willis-stop-dunckel-2.gif)
1) Directly at the limousine
2) In the general direction of the limousine
3) Directly at the TSBD
4) In the general direction of the TSBD
5) I, like Benjamin Cole, have no you-know-what clue.
She's looking at the limousine until she hears the 1st shot at Z-157, looks towards the TSBD, then turns again towards the limousine.
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She's looking at the limousine until she hears the 1st shot at Z-157, looks towards the TSBD, then turns again towards the limousine.
Is she looking at the limousine in Z-145?
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Is she looking at the limousine in Z-145?
She's looking at the limousine until she hears the 1st shot at Z-157 Thumb1:
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She's looking at the limousine until she hears the 1st shot at Z-157.
LOL!
Good one!
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New Poll: In which direction is Rosemary Willis (wearing red dress and white sweatshirt) looking in Z-145?
This is Z-145:
(https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z145.jpg)
(https://www.jfk-online.com/rosemary-willis-stop-dunckel-2.gif)
1) Directly at the limousine
2) In the general direction of the limousine
3) Directly at the TSBD
4) In the general direction of the TSBD
5) I, like Benjamin Cole, have no you-know-what clue.
IMO, she's looking directly at Jackie and Jackie is looking directly at her.
Rosemary is running alongside the limo so she can catch Jackie's attention.
She also has to look where she's actually running.
That's why her head alternates between looking forward and looking at Jackie.
Once she can no longer keep up with the limo she stops running.
The idea that she is responding to the sound of a shot has been debunked.
People need to move on.
PS: Interestingly, the idea that the little girl was turning her head in response to the sound of a shot did not originally come from Rosemary. It was invented by a film 'expert' on the HSCA 'investigation'. Rosemary jumped on the bandwagon decades after the event.
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Interestingly, the idea that the little girl was turning her head in response to the sound of a shot did not originally come from Rosemary. It was invented by a film 'expert' on the HSCA 'investigation'. Rosemary jumped on the bandwagon decades after the event.
Dear danny BOY o'meara,
It's too bad that you put so much emphasis on what the startled-and-traumatized witlessness said or didn't say after the tragic event.
-- Tom
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Dear danny BOY o'meara,
It's too bad that you put so much emphasis on what the startled-and-traumatized witlessness said or didn't say after the tragic event.
-- Tom
It's too bad you don't care about the evidence.
Don't you have any idea how you come across?
You've carved a very special niche for yourself. You're like a Tinfoil Lone Nutter.
A troll.
Impervious to Reason, Logic or Common Sense.
Do you have any idea how bizarre what you're saying is?
None of the witnesses should be listened to because you say so?
Why do you even bother posting?
Are you lonesome?
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It's too bad you don't care about the evidence.
Dear danny BOY o'meara,
That's a suggestion I refuse to accept.
The evidence I care about regarding the actual shooting is the photographic evidence (film, photographs, x-rays), the ballistics evidence, the fingerprint evidence, the medical evidence, and the autopsy report evidence, not the unreliable memories of startled-and-traumatized witnesses that you cherish so rabidly.
-- Tom
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Dear danny BOY o'meara,
That's a suggestion I refuse to accept.
The evidence I care about regarding the actual shooting is the photographic evidence (film, photographs, x-rays), the ballistics evidence, the fingerprint evidence, the medical evidence, and the autopsy report evidence, not the unreliable memories of startled-and-traumatized witnesses that you cherish so rabidly.
-- Tom
That's a suggestion I refuse to accept.
It's not a suggestion.
It's the impartial observation of a fact.
In every interaction I have had with you, you have refused to accept a single scrap of evidence that contradicts your spoon-fed beliefs. Preferring Denial or just making some nonsense up off the top of your head.
That you think you can just write off all eye-witness testimony shows how deeply delusional you have become regarding this case. There may have been a time when you looked at the evidence with open eyes but that time is long gone.
Debating anything with you is like debating with a parrot that has learned a few key phrases.
This thread is an excellent example of exactly what I'm talking about.
Rosemary Willis responding to a first shot at 'z124' has been debunked in a dozen different ways. It's clear for all to see that you are simply projecting your deluded beliefs onto her completely innocent actions.
And you dare not engage in a genuine debate, as the depth of your delusions will be revealed for everyone to see.
More frighteningly, you might even glimpse those depths for yourself.
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[...]
Don't feel sad, widdle danny BOY o'meara.
Vladimir Putin cherishes you and your ilk for what you do!
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It's too bad you don't care about the evidence.
Don't you have any idea how you come across?
You've carved a very special niche for yourself. You're like a Tinfoil Lone Nutter.
A troll.
Impervious to Reason, Logic or Common Sense.
Do you have any idea how bizarre what you're saying is?
None of the witnesses should be listened to because you say so?
Why do you even bother posting?
Are you lonesome?
He totally ignores "evidence". He missed his calling. If he went into broadcasting he'd be a News Anchor in nothing flat. Probably replace Jake Tapper.
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Dear danny BOY o'meara,
It's too bad that you put so much emphasis on what the startled-and-traumatized witlessness said or didn't say after the tragic event.
-- Tom
How is it that these ‘startled and traumatized” people were able to accurately recall the number of shots, how JFK reacted, what happened on the third shot, and how is it that many accurately identified the location of the source? Why is it just the recollection of where JFK was when the first shot sounded and whether JFK reacted to it that confused them?
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How is it that these ‘startled and traumatized” people were able to accurately recall the number of shots
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New Poll: In which direction is Rosemary Willis (wearing red dress and white sweatshirt) looking in Z-145?
This is Z-145:
(https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z145.jpg)
(https://www.jfk-online.com/rosemary-willis-stop-dunckel-2.gif)
1) Directly at the limousine
2) In the general direction of the limousine
3) Directly at the TSBD
4) In the general direction of the TSBD
5) I, like Benjamin Cole, have no you-know-what clue.
Well since I’m able to use basic geometric measurements to determine both vertical plane and horizontal plane angles of the Willis girl head, and plot the line of those angles and see that a line extended from her head angle in both planes intersects with center point of JFK limo
east facing profile at Z145 , I’m able to determine that the Willis girl is looking approximately at center mass of the JFK limo.
Therefore the phrase “looking directly at the limousine” limo is the closest subjective description that fits with the geometric measurement.
I’m also in agreement with no.5 that Tom and Ben have no “you-no-what” clue. What the reason for that cluelessness is, however, is unknown by me at this time.
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Well since I’m able to use basic geometric measurements to determine both vertical plane and horizontal plane angles of the Willis girl head, and plot the line of those angles and see that a line extended from her head angle in both planes intersects with center point of JFK limo
east facing profile at Z145 , I’m able to determine that the Willis girl is looking approximately at center mass of the JFK limo.
Therefore the phrase “looking directly at the limousine” limo is the closest subjective description that fits with the geometric measurement.
I’m also in agreement with no.5 that Tom and Ben have no “you-no-what” clue. What the reason for that cluelessness is, however, is unknown by me at this time.
So, at this time you are clueless about the cluelessness. Got it!
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So, at this time you are clueless about the cluelessness. Got it!
He's got it all figured out!
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So it’s difficult to determine what the current vote count is , because everyone seems to have instead stated their individual perceptions without actually declaring which of the 4 options Tom listed.
Even Tom has muddled his own #4 vote by following up with how he is now clueless.
So I’m starting the count again by officially declaring that I’m voting for #1. 👍