JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Lance Payette on August 20, 2025, 08:00:48 PM
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This is not an LN or CT post, merely informational.
When I visited Dealey Plaza in 1987, I was struck (like everyone else) by how compact it is. Our visit was brief, and I paid no attention to anything behind the picket fence or TSBD.
The six-minute YouTube video below, from a couple of years ago, is quite interesting. Beginning at about the 3-minute mark, the photographer (obviously an LN proponent) spends considerable time panning the entire area behind the picket fence and TSBD. It’s fascinating (to me) how utterly wide open it is.
I was also struck by Lee Bowers’ tower, which is both lower and farther back than most written materials tend to suggest. It is Interlocking Tower 106 of the railroad and was put into service in 1916. It is now owned by the Sixth Floor Museum and was renovated in the 2000s. It is 14 feet high, and the Warren Commission said it sits “approximately 50 yards from the back of the TSBD.”
This short TikTok video pans forward to the picket fence and says “150 yards” to it: https://www.tiktok.com/@solvingjfk/video/7203459605299547435. Anyway, it’s quite a distance. Below the YouTube video is a photograph with red lines purporting to show Bowers’ line of sight to the motorcade. If nothing else, it helps orient us to where everything is located.
There seem to be virtually no contemporaneous photos of Bowers’ view. The black and white image below is the only one I could find, and it’s not clear that it’s actually from Tower 106.
If there’s any LN-orientation to this post, I guess I might question Bowers’ ability to observe the level of detail he purported to have observed as stated in his affidavit the day of the assassination, https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337486/m1/1/. After that, of course, his story got even "better." (Too bad he "had to be silenced" by "them." Why did he have to be silenced three years after the JFKA, enquiring minds wonder?)
Well, that's all from me for now. Say hi to Mom.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YCRYL73L/lee-bowers-viewing-area-of-assassination.jpg)
(https://s1.gifyu.com/images/S1GuO.png)
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This is not an LN or CT post, merely informational.
When I visited Dealey Plaza in 1987, I was struck (like everyone else) by how compact it is. Our visit was brief, and I paid no attention to anything behind the picket fence or TSBD.
The six-minute YouTube video below, from a couple of years ago, is quite interesting. Beginning at about the 3-minute mark, the photographer (obviously an LN proponent) spends considerable time panning the entire area behind the picket fence and TSBD. It’s fascinating (to me) how utterly wide open it is.
I was also struck by Lee Bowers’ tower, which is both lower and farther back than most written materials tend to suggest. It is Interlocking Tower 106 of the railroad and was put into service in 1916. It is now owned by the Sixth Floor Museum and was renovated in the 2000s. It is 14 feet high, and the Warren Commission said it sits “approximately 50 yards from the back of the TSBD.”
This short TikTok video pans forward to the picket fence and says “150 yards” to it: https://www.tiktok.com/@solvingjfk/video/7203459605299547435. Anyway, it’s quite a distance. Below the YouTube video is a photograph with red lines purporting to show Bowers’ line of sight to the motorcade. If nothing else, it helps orient us to where everything is located.
There seem to be virtually no contemporaneous photos of Bowers’ view. The black and white image below is the only one I could find, and it’s not clear that it’s actually from Tower 106.
If there’s any LN-orientation to this post, I guess I might question Bowers’ ability to observe the level of detail he purported to have observed as stated in his affidavit the day of the assassination, https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337486/m1/1/. After that, of course, his story got even "better." (Too bad he "had to be silenced" by "them." Why did he have to be silenced three years after the JFKA, enquiring minds wonder?)
Well, that's all from me for now. Say hi to Mom.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YCRYL73L/lee-bowers-viewing-area-of-assassination.jpg)
(https://s1.gifyu.com/images/S1GuO.png)
Here’s an image from google maps with a scale in the bottom right corner. I drew yellow lines from the tower to the TSBD and the corner of the picket fence area and added black lettering for approximate distances. This shows about 300’ to the picket fence corner area and about 200’ to the back of the TSBD.
(https://i.vgy.me/MdYeEV.jpg)
I don’t think Bowers could see much of the motorcade (only a short section between the structures). I think that Bowers’ better and therefore more important view was of the areas between the tower and the picket fence, etc.
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This is not an LN or CT post, merely informational.
When I visited Dealey Plaza in 1987, I was struck (like everyone else) by how compact it is. Our visit was brief, and I paid no attention to anything behind the picket fence or TSBD.
The six-minute YouTube video below, from a couple of years ago, is quite interesting. Beginning at about the 3-minute mark, the photographer (obviously an LN proponent) spends considerable time panning the entire area behind the picket fence and TSBD. It’s fascinating (to me) how utterly wide open it is.
I was also struck by Lee Bowers’ tower, which is both lower and farther back than most written materials tend to suggest. It is Interlocking Tower 106 of the railroad and was put into service in 1916. It is now owned by the Sixth Floor Museum and was renovated in the 2000s. It is 14 feet high, and the Warren Commission said it sits “approximately 50 yards from the back of the TSBD.”
This short TikTok video pans forward to the picket fence and says “150 yards” to it: https://www.tiktok.com/@solvingjfk/video/7203459605299547435. Anyway, it’s quite a distance. Below the YouTube video is a photograph with red lines purporting to show Bowers’ line of sight to the motorcade. If nothing else, it helps orient us to where everything is located.
There seem to be virtually no contemporaneous photos of Bowers’ view. The black and white image below is the only one I could find, and it’s not clear that it’s actually from Tower 106.
If there’s any LN-orientation to this post, I guess I might question Bowers’ ability to observe the level of detail he purported to have observed as stated in his affidavit the day of the assassination, https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337486/m1/1/. After that, of course, his story got even "better." (Too bad he "had to be silenced" by "them." Why did he have to be silenced three years after the JFKA, enquiring minds wonder?)
Well, that's all from me for now. Say hi to Mom.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YCRYL73L/lee-bowers-viewing-area-of-assassination.jpg)
(https://s1.gifyu.com/images/S1GuO.png)
I am currently researching the area connected to the very 1st Still Frame. Take notice of that short section of retaining wall running from the hand railing directly into the picket fence. That short section of retaining wall is directly across from the wall where the Black Dog Man was captured on Willis 5. The problem here is that Willis 5 shows the Picket Fence to be BEHIND (N) of the Black Dog Man/Short Wall. The picket fence glistens in the Sun behind (N) of the Black Dog Man on Willis 5. Yet, here on this still frame, we see that the Picket Fence is Now IN FRONT OF/(S) of the Black Dog Man/Short Wall. What has physically been done inside Dealey Plaza to make this happen? And why?
With respect to Lee Bowers and the distance between the railroad tower he was inside and the picket fence area that he detailed seeing a WHITE Shirt Man and a Plaid Shirt Man, you need to remember that Bowers controlled the movement of train cars that were high on the other side of Commerce St and train cars that were moving across the Top of the Triple Underpass. In my opinion, Bowers would require a pair of binoculars to see these train cars and therefore do his job effectively. Bowers detailed WC description of the picket fence area and his detailed description of the 3 automobiles and what was going on inside those 3 autos was probably done with the aid of binoculars. Binoculars inside that Railroad Tower would be no different than binoculars inside an Airport Tower. During his WC Q/A, Bowers was not asked about his using binoculars.
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I can find nothing suggesting that Bowers used binoculars in making his observations. For those who can't get enough about Tower 106 - and that should be all of us, eh? - here is a pretty interesting historical article with a couple of photos of Tower 106 in the 1940s (one of which shows the TSBD): http://txrrhistory.com/towers/057/057.htm.
Here, from a site with the unlikely name of "Conspiracy Dossiers," is an exhaustive article from 2024 about Bowers that is one of the most thorough, rational and balanced JFKA pieces I have read in a l-o-n-g time: https://conspiracydossiers.com/2024/04/22/lee-bowers/. Oh, if only all JFKA writing were this sane.
It relies in part, as all pieces on Bowers' must, on Dave Perry's actual research into the claims made about Bowers' death in Geraldo Rivera's 1992 TV program, "Now It Can Be Told: The Curse of JFK." Here is Perry's article: https://dperry1943.com/bowers.html.
I also bought accident investigator Anita Dickason's book on Bowers' death: https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Assassination-Eyewitness-Conspiracy-Paperback/dp/B011827KF6. I remember I wasn't as impressed as I'd hoped to be.
Surely the "mysterious deaths" crowd - which includes some very prominent voices in the CT community - is the absolute far edge of the lunatic fringe of the CT community. In Bowers' case, you run him off the road into a bridge abutment on a remote highway three years after the JFKA? Who came up with this genius plan? And you do this three years after the assassination because ... because ... well, WHY?
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If you believe that Bowers was controlling train cars on the other side of Commerce St without binoculars because he was Not questioned about this, that's "OK". Do you also believe Bowers controlled train cars without a walkie- talkie because he was Not questioned about using a walkie-talkie? The WC Q/A was routinely confined.
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Regarding the pergola on the opposite side of the street, what's the building indicated by the red arrow? It's not the Post Office building.
(https://img1.pixhost.to/images/8133/633599453_s1guo.png)
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Regarding the pergola on the opposite side of the street, what's the building indicated by the red arrow? It's not the Post Office building.
(https://img1.pixhost.to/images/8133/633599453_s1guo.png)
I believe that photo is all to the right of the Post Office Building (looking from Bowers' vantage point). I believe the edge of the pergola and stairs would be at the far left of this photo. If the PO Building is there at all, it would be behind the dense trees on the left. It is an odd perspective, which is why I was a bit equivocal in my original post. It was posted at the Ed Forum by Chris Davidson as being one of the few (or only) contemporaneous photos showing Bowers view.
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If you believe that Bowers was controlling train cars on the other side of Commerce St without binoculars because he was Not questioned about this, that's "OK". Do you also believe Bowers controlled train cars without a walkie- talkie because he was Not questioned about using a walkie-talkie? The WC Q/A was routinely confined.
It isn't a matter of belief. He may have had a 100-power telescope for all I know. The fact is, in all his descriptions, from the WC to his Mark Lane interview, he never said anything to suggest he was using anything other than his naked eyes. He did indicate that the cars came quite close to the tower, which would explain his detailed observations of them. I have no reason to be skeptical of Bowers and scarcely regard him as a bombshell CT witness. He version of events did get somewhat better in the hands of Snake Oil Salesman No. 1 - that would be Mark Lane - and after his death he predictably became the subject of CT mythology about "what he REALLY saw but never told." I simply say he was paying remarkably close attention if he really saw all he said he did.
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Below, the B/W photo of the parking lot is suspect. On the (L), where did that double sprig tree between the Pergola and the N-S Picket Fence come from?
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Regarding the pergola on the opposite side of the street, what's the building indicated by the red arrow? It's not the Post Office building.
(https://img1.pixhost.to/images/8133/633599453_s1guo.png)
Bump
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Below, the B/W photo of the parking lot is suspect. On the (L), where did that double sprig tree between the Pergola and the N-S Picket Fence come from?
Alteration City! "They" not only altered the Z film and JFK's body, but they actually added - or maybe removed! - little trees from Dealey Plaza! I must admit, Mr. Skinny Tree is not clearly visible in any historical TSBD photo I could find in an exhaustive 5-minute search. The images below are the best I could do. (Is that perhaps Mr. ST lurking in the top photo?) On the other hand, as a proud former owner of a 1965 Pontiac GTO, one or more of the vehicles in the photo appear to be post-1963, so perhaps Mr. ST was planted later; I have a tree in my back yard that was a mere seedling two years ago and is now a pretty decent tree. Non-conspiratorial minds have to wonder what "they" would gain by doctoring obscure photos to add - or remove, or whatever - little trees?
(https://www.jfk.org/wp-content/uploads/Then-Now-4_A-1536x1277.jpg.webp)
(https://www.pressherald.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2014/05/bookdepository_old.jpg)
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The Photo I questioned was in relation to the view of Lee Bowers from inside the railroad tower. The 2 Photos you posted have Nothing to do with that view that Bowers had. In fact, both of the photos that you posted do Not include the area of that Double Sprig Tree that I questioned.
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The Photo I questioned was in relation to the view of Lee Bowers from inside the railroad tower. The 2 Photos you posted have Nothing to do with that view that Bowers had. In fact, both of the photos that you posted do Not include the area of that Double Sprig Tree that I questioned.
No, but the top one does show a veritable family of Double Sprig Trees in the immediate vicinity, which might suggest the Suspicious Double Sprig Tree is a member of the family, no? What are we supposed to be finding "suspect" about the tree?
Here is essentially the same view in a more modern photo, with the Suspicious Tree now Suspiciously Gone:
(https://i.postimg.cc/J7pYgwp3/Screen-Shot-2567-09-13-at-18-35-43.png)
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Regarding the pergola on the opposite side of the street, what's the building indicated by the red arrow? It's not the Post Office building.
(https://img1.pixhost.to/images/8133/633599453_s1guo.png)
Correct, the Post Office Building can be seen above the trees at the top of the image over towards the left side. I believe the building indicated by the red arrow is probably the one indicated by a yellow arrow in the following image:
(https://i.vgy.me/sdRrC2.jpg)
That’s an “L” shaped building sitting over the top of the RR yard. I think that in the image with the red arrow, we are seeing the end of the building closest to Dealey Plaza. (That would be the opposite end of the building from where the yellow arrow is drawn.) I would draw the yellow arrow at that end of the building if I were doing it over again. But I currently see no real need for doing it over again.
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No, but the top one does show a veritable family of Double Sprig Trees in the immediate vicinity, which might suggest the Suspicious Double Sprig Tree is a member of the family, no? What are we supposed to be finding "suspect" about the tree?
Here is essentially the same view in a more modern photo, with the Suspicious Tree now Suspiciously Gone:
(https://i.postimg.cc/J7pYgwp3/Screen-Shot-2567-09-13-at-18-35-43.png)
There was No "family" of sprigs in that area on 11/22/63. Interestingly, that is also the same alleged area that Gordon Arnold claimed to have been standing/filming
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The attached image is derived from a stabilized short clip I made some time ago and realized that the “two sprigs” tree is visible in the gap between the West shelter and stockade fence. This area is paved now but may not have been in 1963. I stacked 18 frames focused on this little tree. After some processing it is difficult, but possible, to see the two sprigs- likely of a Yaupon Holly tree that is prevalent in Dealey Plaza. The timing for this clip is at most two weeks after November 22, as the memorials on the grass have not yet been relocated close to the pergola's concrete floor.
(https://i.imgur.com/GbsMECz.jpeg)
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The attached image is derived from a stabilized short clip I made some time ago and realized that the “two sprigs” tree is visible in the gap between the West shelter and stockade fence. This area is paved now but may not have been in 1963. I stacked 18 frames focused on this little tree. After some processing it is difficult, but possible, to see the two sprigs- likely of a Yaupon Holly tree that is prevalent in Dealey Plaza. The timing for this clip is at most two weeks after November 22, as the memorials on the grass have not yet been relocated close to the pergola's concrete floor.
(https://i.imgur.com/GbsMECz.jpeg)
You are looking at the Wrong Area. The "Two Sprig Tree" I questioned is shown to be (S) of the Pergola Shelter/Between the shelter and Elm St. In this pic you posted, you are looking (N) of that Pergola Shelter. For a a good look at this area (S) of the Pergola Shelter, look at the 6th Photo on the "Allen Gallery" posted on this Forum's "JFK Assassination Photo Gallery". It's the pic looking directly at the Hammer Man as he walks across Elm St. There is NO Sprig Tree.
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You are looking at the Wrong Area. The "Two Sprig Tree" I questioned is shown to be (S) of the Pergola Shelter/Between the shelter and Elm St. In this pic you posted, you are looking (N) of that Pergola Shelter. For a a good look at this area (S) of the Pergola Shelter, look at the 6th Photo on the "Allen Gallery" posted on this Forum's "JFK Assassination Photo Gallery". It's the pic looking directly at the Hammer Man as he walks across Elm St. There is NO Sprig Tree.
The sixth Allen photo in the gallery does show the same area as James’ image. The reason the tree doesn’t show up in the Allen photo is simply because there are people standing between Allen’s camera and the tree blocking the view of the tree.
In the following two cropped images, I have drawn a red arrow to the other nearby Yaupon Holly tree that is in that vicinity but closer to the picket fence.
(The image hosting site that I use is having a reoccurring technical problem at this time. I will try later to post these images.)
What I am saying is that the red arrows drawn in the following two images are pointing at the same tree. And the second small tree shown in James Hackerott’s image is simply hidden from the camera’s viewpoint by the people standing in the way.
(https://i.vgy.me/bQgZci.jpg)
(https://i.vgy.me/ZdHaJT.jpg)
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Regarding the pergola on the opposite side of the street, what's the building indicated by the red arrow? It's not the Post Office building.
(https://img1.pixhost.to/images/8133/633599453_s1guo.png)
In addition to this Two Sprig Tree issue, there is a question with respect to the N-S section of the Picket Fence. There is Only 1 large tree (E) of that N-S picket fence. It sits mere feet (E) of the picket fence, far enough away to permit walking between the fence and the tree. That picket fence extends beyond the Pergola Shelter. That fence should be blocking our view of this tree from the ground to the top of the picket fence. Yet, on this photo we can easily see the tree from the ground up. Has the portion of the picket fence that should be blocking our view of this large tree been torn down? This might be indicative of when the photo was taken. On the Gary Mack/Jack White segment of "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" (1988), they are shown to be measuring the height of the N-S section of the picket fence. In this filmed segment you can see large sections of the picket fence are missing and in disrepair. Maybe it was during this same time period that this photo was taken?
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Jeez, man. Do you really believe that nearly every photo and film from Dealey Plaza was somehow altered?
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The sixth Allen photo in the gallery does show the same area as James’ image. The reason the tree doesn’t show up in the Allen photo is simply because there are people standing between Allen’s camera and the tree blocking the view of the tree.
In the following two cropped images, I have drawn a red arrow to the other nearby Yaupon Holly tree that is in that vicinity but closer to the picket fence.
(The image hosting site that I use is having a reoccurring technical problem at this time. I will try later to post these images.)
What I am saying is that the red arrows drawn in the following two images are po And the second small tree shown in James Hackerott’s image is simply hidden from the camera’s viewpoint by the people standing in the way.
(https://i.vgy.me/bQgZci.jpg)
(https://i.vgy.me/ZdHaJT.jpg)
The Red Arrow you posted is (N) of the Pergola Shelter. The "Two Sprig Tree" is (S) of the Pergola Shelter. Your Red Arrow is pointing to an area that is beyond the (N) end of the picket fence. That Red Arrow is far closer to being inside the railroad yard than on the Knoll. Nothing in the area of the alleged "Two Sprig Tree" is hidden by "people standing in the way" on the Allen "Hammer Man" photo.
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Jeez, man. Do you really believe that nearly every photo and film from Dealey Plaza was somehow altered?
I am unaware of a "Two Sprig Tree" being in this area. I have studied this immediate area closely due to the Gordon Arnold story. And here on this photo we have an alleged sprig tree suddenly cropping up in the same general area that Arnold claimed to have been standing/filming.
I proffered the Allen Photo as proof there was No "Two Sprig Tree" in this area. Therefore, I do Not, "...believe that every photo and film from Dealey Plaza was somehow altered".
If you have an explanation for the alleged Two Sprig Tree being on that photo, I would be interested in hearing it.
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Believing Gordon Arnold is the first problem. Why on earth would the evil conspirators waste time adding a tree into the film and photo record?
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Believing Gordon Arnold is the first problem. Why on earth would the evil conspirators waste time adding a tree into the film and photo record?
I asked you for an explanation regarding the Two Sprig Tree being in that photo. You have yet to provide any explanation. That's because there is no explaining it. There is absolutely no sprig tree in this area. People want to swear by the assassination images until they don't. In reality, that sprig tree was Never there.
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More reaching and straining to discredit inconvenient evidence. Bowers gave virtually the same account to Mark Lane in 1966 that he gave to the WC in 1964. No objective person who watches Bowers' interview with Lane could come away thinking that Bowers had an agenda or was padding his account. To both Lane and the WC, Bowers described seeing three cars recon the area behind the knoll shortly before the shooting and seeing one of the drivers appearing to talk into a handheld device. Bowers noted to Lane that he told the FBI and the Dallas police that two of the shots came in rapid succession, almost on top of each other, and that he didn't feel they could have been fired by the same rifle.
From his 14-foot tower, Bowers quite easily could have seen the events that he described. He was right around 120 yards from the grassy knoll. People can see football players and discern their actions from farther away than that in college and professional football stadiums.
WC apologists don't like Bowers' testimony partly because there is no innocent explanation for the three cars that reconned the area behind the knoll within 5-20 minutes of the shooting.
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/pdf/WH6_Bowers.pdf
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Based on his WC Testimony, Bowers seemed like a no-nonsense kinda guy. He directly answered the WC Questions without meandering and/or interjecting all kinds of extraneous information. This is why I think Bowers did Not mention his possibly using binoculars. He simply was Not asked. There's just no way with the naked eye that Bowers could control train cars on the other side of Commerce St. or on the top of the Triple Underpass without the use of binoculars or some other kind of magnifying visual aid. Bowers description of the 3 cars and what was going on inside them, along with his detailed description of a Plaid Shirt Man & a White Shirt Man being "in line" with the Triple Underpass are indicative of his using what would be standard equipment inside every "Control Tower" of any kind. A pair of binoculars.
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Sometimes I like to try to solve some questions regarding some of the photos. I believe that I have resolved some items in the photo that Lance posted in, I believe, the first post of this thread.
(https://i.vgy.me/l9FDky.jpg)
1. First I believe that Royell is correct about the small tree (blue arrow). It appears to have been transplanted from north of the pergola shelter to south of the pergola shelter. The image that James Hackerott posted shows what seems to me to probably be the same tree but apparently north of the pergola shelter. I have viewed the possibilities in a good 3D computer model from various angles, and it appears to me that Royell is correct and I stand corrected for my assumptions in my earlier post. Thanks Royell.
2. However, as I believe Lance already pointed out, there is clearly visible the distinct rear end of a 1965 Chevrolet (yellow arrow). The 1965 models would not have even shown up in the showrooms before the fall of 1964. So that would be the earliest this photo could have been taken, but probably a bit later than that. Therefore I believe that transplanting a small tree like that to a different location (at least about a year after the assassination) should be considered a normal and typical maintenance revision and irrelevant to the assassination. Since it is irrelevant, we have no reason to need to know why someone decided that the small tree should be relocated.
3. The upper part of the post office building can be seen upper left of the image (red arrow).
4. This photo does appear to me to have been taken from the vicinity of the tower. However, it does also appear to have been taken from standing on the ground level versus from the 14’ level of the tower. This was determined by viewing various angles with a good 3D computer model.
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(https://i.vgy.me/l9FDky.jpg)
One other aspect of the photo that Lance posted (that a good 3D model shows) is that the sidewalk and partial street that can be seen between the pergola shelter and the picket fence (just above the blue arrow) is Commerce Street. Elm Street (below) is hidden from view by the grassy knoll. I had assumed wrongly that it was Elm Street.
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Sometimes I like to try to solve some questions regarding some of the photos. I believe that I have resolved some items in the photo that Lance posted in, I believe, the first post of this thread.
(https://i.vgy.me/l9FDky.jpg)
1. First I believe that Royell is correct about the small tree (blue arrow). It appears to have been transplanted from north of the pergola shelter to south of the pergola shelter. The image that James Hackerott posted shows what seems to me to probably be the same tree but apparently north of the pergola shelter. I have viewed the possibilities in a good 3D computer model from various angles, and it appears to me that Royell is correct and I stand corrected for my assumptions in my earlier post. Thanks Royell.
2. However, as I believe Lance already pointed out, there is clearly visible the distinct rear end of a 1965 Chevrolet (yellow arrow). The 1965 models would not have even shown up in the showrooms before the fall of 1964. So that would be the earliest this photo could have been taken, but probably a bit later than that. Therefore I believe that transplanting a small tree like that to a different location (at least about a year after the assassination) should be considered a normal and typical maintenance revision and irrelevant to the assassination. Since it is irrelevant, we have no reason to need to know why someone decided that the small tree should be relocated.
3. The upper part of the post office building can be seen upper left of the image (red arrow).
4. This photo does appear to me to have been taken from the vicinity of the tower. However, it does also appear to have been taken from standing on the ground level versus from the 14’ level of the tower. This was determined by viewing various angles with a good 3D computer model.
Thanks Charles. If anyone has ever previously seen an image of this sprig tree being in this area of the Knoll, (blue arrow), please let this forum know. Another issue with this image is the missing section of the N-S picket fence. To the (R) of that Blue Arrow, we clearly see a tree trunk from the ground up. The N-S section of the picket fence extended (N) beyond the pergola shelter. That (N) section of the N-S picket fence should be blocking our view of the bottom portion of that tree trunk. That same tree stood within mere feet of the N-S picket fence.
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This is not an LN or CT post, merely informational.
When I visited Dealey Plaza in 1987, I was struck (like everyone else) by how compact it is. Our visit was brief, and I paid no attention to anything behind the picket fence or TSBD.
The six-minute YouTube video below, from a couple of years ago, is quite interesting. Beginning at about the 3-minute mark, the photographer (obviously an LN proponent) spends considerable time panning the entire area behind the picket fence and TSBD. It’s fascinating (to me) how utterly wide open it is.
I was also struck by Lee Bowers’ tower, which is both lower and farther back than most written materials tend to suggest. It is Interlocking Tower 106 of the railroad and was put into service in 1916. It is now owned by the Sixth Floor Museum and was renovated in the 2000s. It is 14 feet high, and the Warren Commission said it sits “approximately 50 yards from the back of the TSBD.”
This short TikTok video pans forward to the picket fence and says “150 yards” to it: https://www.tiktok.com/@solvingjfk/video/7203459605299547435. Anyway, it’s quite a distance. Below the YouTube video is a photograph with red lines purporting to show Bowers’ line of sight to the motorcade. If nothing else, it helps orient us to where everything is located.
There seem to be virtually no contemporaneous photos of Bowers’ view. The black and white image below is the only one I could find, and it’s not clear that it’s actually from Tower 106.
If there’s any LN-orientation to this post, I guess I might question Bowers’ ability to observe the level of detail he purported to have observed as stated in his affidavit the day of the assassination, https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337486/m1/1/. After that, of course, his story got even "better." (Too bad he "had to be silenced" by "them." Why did he have to be silenced three years after the JFKA, enquiring minds wonder?)
Well, that's all from me for now. Say hi to Mom.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YCRYL73L/lee-bowers-viewing-area-of-assassination.jpg)
(https://s1.gifyu.com/images/S1GuO.png)
"If there’s any LN-orientation to this post, I guess I might question Bowers’ ability to observe the level of detail he purported to have observed as stated in his affidavit the day of the assassination,"
What "level of detail" are you referring to?
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Thanks Charles. If anyone has ever previously seen an image of this sprig tree being in this area of the Knoll, (blue arrow), please let this forum know. Another issue with this image is the missing section of the N-S picket fence. To the (R) of that Blue Arrow, we clearly see a tree trunk from the ground up. The N-S section of the picket fence extended (N) beyond the pergola shelter. That (N) section of the N-S picket fence should be blocking our view of the bottom portion of that tree trunk. That same tree stood within mere feet of the N-S picket fence.
The camera angles can sometimes play tricks on us. I don't know if this will be helpful or not, but here is a crop from an aerial photo made in April, 1967. I'm guessing that this date might be reasonably close to the date that the image posted by Lance was made. Again this was years after the assassination. So routine maintenance might have included shortening the picket fence. It seems to show the north/south section of the picket fence ending near the south edge of the pergola shelter.
(https://i.vgy.me/oIVx0F.png)
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth1030229/ (https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth1030229/)
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The camera angles can sometimes play tricks on us. I don't know if this will be helpful or not, but here is a crop from an aerial photo made in April, 1967. I'm guessing that this date might be reasonably close to the date that the image posted by Lance was made. Again this was years after the assassination. So routine maintenance might have included shortening the picket fence. It seems to show the north/south section of the picket fence ending near the south edge of the pergola shelter.
(https://i.vgy.me/oIVx0F.png)
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth1030229/ (https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth1030229/)
You must be looking at a better quality photo than I am looking at above. I do Not see any of the N-S picket fence and only about 3/4 of the Pergola Shelter.
I have viewed a short snippet of film on You Tube that showed the area behind the Black Dog Man area. This snippet included a good view of the (N) section of the N-S picket fence. I believe this footage was shot the day of the assassination, but I do Not know that for a fact or even who filmed it. That said, if this footage was shot on 11/22/63, that (N) section of the N-S picket fence looked extremely good. It "glistened" like it had just been shellacked or had some kind of weather proofing applied. This "glistening" in my opinion accounted for the "glare" we see from the picket fence in the background of "Willis 5"/The Black Dog Man photo. Based on the section of picket fence I viewed on this You Tube snippet, I seriously doubt that that section of picket fencing would have deteriorated due to weather by 1967. If you want to view this film snippet, let me know and I will tell you exactly where it is located on You Tube.
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You must be looking at a better quality photo than I am looking at above. I do Not see any of the N-S picket fence and only about 3/4 of the Pergola Shelter.
The first few feet of the N-S section of the picket fence are visible. Further north it is in the shadows of the large tree so we do not actually see it. The reason I posted this is because you stated the N-S section of the picket fence extended north PAST the pergola shelter. In this photo we can see that it appears that the fence ends before it gets past the north side of the shelter. So if the fence did indeed extend past the north side of the shelter on 11/22/63, then it has apparently been shortened. However, this photo was taken years after the assassination so I don’t see any relevance to the assassination.
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The first few feet of the N-S section of the picket fence are visible. Further north it is in the shadows of the large tree so we do not actually see it. The reason I posted this is because you stated the N-S section of the picket fence extended north PAST the pergola shelter. In this photo we can see that it appears that the fence ends before it gets past the north side of the shelter. So if the fence did indeed extend past the north side of the shelter on 11/22/63, then it has apparently been shortened. However, this photo was taken years after the assassination so I don’t see any relevance to the assassination.
Just my opinion, but the missing section of picket fencing we are discussing is in the same general area as Black Dog Man, Gordon Arnold, and Badge Man. If it was just arbitrarily decided to replace this section of picket fencing when it did Not require such, that's an issue. And that same section of picket fencing looks close to brand new on the You Tube film snippet I previously referenced. Personally, I still regard Dealey Plaza as a Murder Scene.
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Regarding the pergola on the opposite side of the street, what's the building indicated by the red arrow? It's not the Post Office building.
(https://img1.pixhost.to/images/8133/633599453_s1guo.png)
Sean, Charles Collins has already in this thread identified the building you are asking about as part of the loading infrastructure at the Union Station. I’m belatedly adding some info related to the photo you posted.
I had a chance to visit Dealey Plaza recently. Although the Bowers Tower was not on my agenda I did make video of the Fence-Shelter gap from ground level. I slowly side-walked from the west corner to the east corner. Attached is a frame taken at approximately half the width of the tower that would be under the center window facing south.
I learned from this experiment that the south pergola’s shelter is not responsible for the smallish structure to the right of center in your posted photo. I made the mistake of using that structure as the west pergola shelter, which put my estimation of the photographer's location too far east. I recently found an aerial labeled as from 1968 that shows some structure about 14x14’ and about 50’ SW of the pergola’s west shelter.
https://www.historicaerials.com/location/32.74639398582965/-97.31540992856026/1963/20#
I believe this structure is a shed. It does not show in 1972 or 1958 aerials. I also found2 an on-line (full?) frame version that was possibly the original. Your posted image from which we’ve been studying is cropped. The fuller frame version shows the camera at elevation. I believe that the photo fairly represents a view from Bowers’ tower.
I have only found one contemporaneous photo that shows the Union Station freight handling bridge. It is at upper-right frame as the last building to the west in the Volkland photo. This structure is gone in a 1979 aerial.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EYOQJcqOn5nymrOqkas6mugzDJCu0Ws_/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xZeS_7URmL8Z3S25woO5nyobTUDTumt7/view?usp=drive_link
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With respect to the photo you took showing the white car from the driver's side inside the parking lot. Were they working on the N-S picket fence when you took that photo? That N-S section of fence looks shorter and it appears like there is something at a low level stretching from the shelter to the end of the fence.
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With respect to the photo you took showing the white car from the driver's side inside the parking lot. Were they working on the N-S picket fence when you took that photo? That N-S section of fence looks shorter and it appears like there is something at a low level stretching from the shelter to the end of the fence.
Sorry Royell, no work on the fence while I was there. I think there is a great deal of foreshortening of the N-S fence in the Bowers images.
That strip is just sunshine.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aYt0hlSpY3A6485BQLJQCHhoO6TdKZ77/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xi9AxgeLk2I7IcCgqgR4DzlDPaB9zQXc/view?usp=sharing
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Sorry Royell, no work on the fence while I was there. I think there is a great deal of foreshortening of the N-S fence in the Bowers images.
That strip is just sunshine.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aYt0hlSpY3A6485BQLJQCHhoO6TdKZ77/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xi9AxgeLk2I7IcCgqgR4DzlDPaB9zQXc/view?usp=sharing
Thanks for posting that additional photo. Were they doing some sort of repair/paint work on that shelter near this "sunshine" when you were there? Exterior and interior. I am interested in the general area between the short wall and the N-S picket fence. This includes that pergola shelter. I am hoping whenever the Sixth Floor Museum posts the last half of the Darnell Film that we get a much better look at this area.