JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Dan O'meara on October 21, 2023, 10:53:56 PM
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Here's one for the Tinfoil Brigade that I don't think has been spotted before.
I was looking through some Towner pics when I noticed the character circled in red:
(https://i.postimg.cc/NfcZjKKs/Towner-Rifle1.jpg)
A closer look appears to reveal someone carrying a rifle in the seconds after the assassination:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Nf3SSjvc/Towner-Rifle-Crop.png)
Go figure.
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Is that person standing on the bench that the young black couple were sitting on? The couple who threw down the soda bottle.
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This image is TOWNER 3 SLIDE. If you look closely, the very top of the picket fence/the sharp pointed pickets, are at a level of just above the knees of this guy/kid. Just how do you think this person is managing to remain perched this high above the picket fence? The 2 by 4's which reinforce the fence are ALL on the other side of the fence. The entire side of the picket fence facing this person is Smooth/Slick. There has to be something up against the fence/alongside the fence that this person is standing atop. Either someone has placed something alongside/up against the fence that this person is standing atop, or maybe this person is standing on 1 of those dirt piles that Gordon Arnold mentioned in his 6/6/1989 Sixth Floor Interview. The point along the picket fence where we are seeing this person is only feet away from where Gordon Arnold claimed to have been assaulted by a "policeman wearing no hat". This elevated position hugging the picket fence would have been ideal for a spotter or shooter on 11/22/63. A spotter or shooter positioned here would also explain the quickness with which Gordon Arnold was accosted immediately following the Kill Shot.
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Is that person standing on the bench that the young black couple were sitting on? The couple who threw down the soda bottle.
Hi Gerry,
Most likely this person is standing on either a step or the shelter’s south entrance steps abutment, which currently stands 22.4” above the concrete pavement. The abutment top surface is approximately 3’x1’. My background photo was taken near where the couple’s bench was located.
(https://i.imgur.com/aZWro3o.jpg)
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Here's one for the Tinfoil Brigade that I don't think has been spotted before.
I was looking through some Towner pics when I noticed the character circled in red:
(https://i.postimg.cc/NfcZjKKs/Towner-Rifle1.jpg)
A closer look appears to reveal someone carrying a rifle in the seconds after the assassination:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Nf3SSjvc/Towner-Rifle-Crop.png)
Go figure.
You believe that shows a person carrying a rifle? And he is hanging around for the post assassination press conference? LOL. Wow,
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Towner 3 show that guy/kid's knees to be just below the very tip-top of the picket fence. Now, eyeball that man's knees inside the shelter straight across to the picket fence. His knees are at a height of only roughly 1/2 way up the fence. Nowhere near the Top of the fence, and that is if he were standing at the very top of those steps, which would have placed his body somewhat inside the shelter to have possibly been photo'd from the rear. Also, the position of this guy/kid's arms are not indicative of someone standing upright on a level surface such as concrete. Nobody stands with their arms bent/cocked in this manner while standing on a level/flat surface such as concrete With every new piece of information/evidence that is unearthed, the Gordon Arnold story continues becoming more and more credible.
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You believe that shows a person carrying a rifle? And he is hanging around for the post assassination press conference? LOL. Wow,
You believe that shows a person carrying a rifle?
No, I don't.
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You believe that shows a person carrying a rifle?
No, I don't.
"A closer look appears to reveal someone carrying a rifle in the seconds after the assassination:"
I guess I'm not following. What exactly is the point?
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"A closer look appears to reveal someone carrying a rifle in the seconds after the assassination:"
I guess I'm not following. What exactly is the point?
The point is, how is it that this individual is perched so high atop the picket fence? There has to be something situated right next to the picket fence in this area. To this day, there's little known as to what was in the area between the picket fence and the short wall that leads down to the Black Dog Man Nook. We still do not even have a good fix on where the Bench was sitting.
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Hi Gerry,
Most likely this person is standing on either a step or the shelter’s south entrance steps abutment, which currently stands 22.4” above the concrete pavement. The abutment top surface is approximately 3’x1’. My background photo was taken near where the couple’s bench was located.
(https://i.imgur.com/aZWro3o.jpg)
Well spotted. That could very well be what this person is standing on. For a second I thought maybe this might have been the male of the fleeing black couple.
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Here's one for the Tinfoil Brigade that I don't think has been spotted before.
I was looking through some Towner pics when I noticed the character circled in red:
(https://i.postimg.cc/NfcZjKKs/Towner-Rifle1.jpg)
A closer look appears to reveal someone carrying a rifle in the seconds after the assassination:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Nf3SSjvc/Towner-Rifle-Crop.png)
Go figure.
The sharp pointed pickets you see to this guy's left are the VERY TOP of the picket fence. This puts the very top of the picket fence at just above his knees. This is how highly elevated above the picket fence he actually is. Standing on the steps or the abutement would not put anyone close to this high off the ground. As you can see, that short wall which runs down into the Black Dog Man Nook is even far taller than the shelter concrete floor/the very top step/abutement. The Uncropped version of Towner 3 clearly shows the height disparity between: (1) the guy on the fence, (2) the shelter concrete floor/top step, and (3) the short wall. That guy on the picket fence is towering well above the shelter floor/top step & the short wall. He is standing atop something that is alongside or leaning against the picket fence. Maybe he is standing atop one of those dirt piles that was mentioned by Gordon Arnold in his Sixth Floor Interview?
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"A closer look appears to reveal someone carrying a rifle in the seconds after the assassination:"
I guess I'm not following. What exactly is the point?
(https://i.postimg.cc/Nf3SSjvc/Towner-Rifle-Crop.png)
Don't you agree, it kinda looks like someone holding a rifle?
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This is way, way after the shooting. It's just someone running around, that's all. You can even see the charter bus in the underpass. Do you really think the killers would have been lurking around with guns like this? Ridiculous. All these had to do is stick their gun out, shoot, and disappear and let them pandemonium begin.
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This is way, way after the shooting. It's just someone running around, that's all. You can even see the charter bus in the underpass. Do you really think the killers would have been lurking around with guns like this? Ridiculous. All these had to do is stick their gun out, shoot, and disappear and let them pandemonium begin.
I do Not believe this guy on the fence has a rifle or was a shooter. Josiah Thompson has speculated that a shooter following the assassination could have been hidden inside a car trunk, and then later driven out of Dealey Plaza. This would therefore warrant spotter(s)/lookout(s) remaining behind to handle crowd control and keep the focus away from the car with a possible shooter in the trunk. The No Hat Cop as seen on the Darnell Film would fall into this category. Basically, keeping people away from the car and ALL the attention focused on the TSBD. My issue with that guy/kid on the fence is exactly what is he standing atop to raise him so high above the picket fence? The alleged No Hat Cop that confronted Gordon Arnold and took his film was quickly on Gordon Arnold immediately following the kill shot. That No Hat Cop could have occupied whatever this guy/kid is standing atop on the Towner 3 Slide. This issue is 1 of many things that makes the Gordon Arnold Sixth Floor Interview extremely interesting. During this interview, Arnold offhandedly referenced his filming view being obstructed by the Stemmons Sign and therefore forcing him to take a high ground position atop a dirt pile/hill. Arnold added that dirt was being moved around there in the area between the picket fence and the short wall. Like Arnold, The Bench as revealed on the Darnell Film is also on higher ground vs the area immediately around it. So we got Arnold and The Bench possibly being atop dirt "that was being moved around". How about another dirt pile/hill also being the explanation for the guy/kid's elevated position on the Towner 3 Slide?
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(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/13992.jpg)
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Picture18.jpg)
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That overhead view of the spacious dirt area leading to The Steps, makes it easy to understand how Gordon Arnold was not visible in the Moorman pic.
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This is way, way after the shooting. It's just someone running around, that's all. You can even see the charter bus in the underpass. Do you really think the killers would have been lurking around with guns like this? Ridiculous. All these had to do is stick their gun out, shoot, and disappear and let them pandemonium begin.
Don't you agree it looks like the guy is holding something that could be interpreted as being a rifle?
Obviously it could be a trick of the camera angle, he might not be carrying anything at all.
And, obviously, a guy running around with a rifle in broad daylight is hardly on the cards.
But the conspiratorial mind must have it's fun.
I'm just surprised it hadn't been spotted sooner.
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The "faux rifle" man in Towner03 is mentioned here ( Link (https://jfkplayersandwitnesses.wordpress.com/2013/10/21/the-towner-photo/) ) and a crop of the figure was featured in the 1993 Robert Groden book "The Killing of a President". They're serious about it.
I have a copy of "The Killing Of A President" and appreciate many of the images in that book. It's author, Groden, is another pusher of that guy/kid standing on a cement pedestal on Towner 3. Whether intentional, accidental, and/or due to sheer incompetence, Groden has been a huge distributor of JFK Assassination disinformation which he continues doing to this day. I believe his biggest transgression among many is his splicing together of assorted JFK Assassination footage. This has created all kinds of confusion as to exactly who filmed what and ensuing Line-Of-Sight issues. Groden through his slicing and dicing of assassination film footage managed to shroud the work of Darnell, who is only now beginning to gain the recognition he merited for his 11/22/63 assassination filming of Houston St, Elm St, the Elm Ext, the top of the triple underpass, the train yard, the area between the picket fence and the short wall, and the exterior of the TSBD. In short, anything proffered by Groden has to be looked at closely.
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i see what you are getting at here .you decided it was a good day to poke fun at people who have a differing opinion to you . that you did it via a childish insult (tinfoil comment ) and that you did it with a photo that any reasonable person can see does not show what you are talking about probably speaks volumes .
the person in the photo was either in that area or near it as the motorcade came by , or he was one of a few very early people to run that way . i mean before the main dash by a lot of people up there . it seems clear to me (but some may not agree) that the person is turned and is looking either into the area of the car park or beyond that perhaps trying to see the limo on the stemmons . i would say its a man. he appears to be angled about the right , on or both hands seem to be on or near his hips or lower back . maybe a bit out of breath from running so fast . certainly not anything suspicious .
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Here is an enhanced 18 frame stack from a film/video pan of the fence_shelter_gap taken probably SaPersonay the 23rd. No large mounds of dirt, let alone any piles large enough to raise an individual to the height seen in the Jim Towner#3 photo.
Edit. I notice there are not strong shadows in the video. SaPersonay was bright but possibly Sunday before the sky was overcast.
Edit 20231025
I realize now that the stacked 18 frame clip came from a snippet from the SS reconstruction film. I have December 5th for that date.
(https://i.imgur.com/PUTUQy7.jpg)
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Here is an enhanced 18 frame stack from a film/video pan of the fence_shelter_gap taken probably SaPersonay the 23rd. No large mounds of dirt, let alone any piles large enough to raise an individual to the height seen in the Jim Towner#3 photo.
(https://i.imgur.com/PUTUQy7.jpg)
Great work yet again Hackers.
There is also this Allen pic from the day:
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZnSvGxT7/Allenphoto1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
A close-up reveals a similar lack of dirt piles.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QMYRYfqD/Allenphoto1a.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Yeah, I looked at a Murry photo similar to Allen's but it was too shadowed. I edited my post as video appears to be under an overcast sky. If I remember correctly it was Sunday before the sky became overcast.
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Here is an enhanced 18 frame stack from a film/video pan of the fence_shelter_gap taken probably SaPersonay the 23rd. No large mounds of dirt, let alone any piles large enough to raise an individual to the height seen in the Jim Towner#3 photo.
Edit. I notice there are not strong shadows in the video. SaPersonay was bright but possibly Sunday before the sky was overcast.
(https://i.imgur.com/PUTUQy7.jpg)
We need to be very careful when time stamping ALL assassination images. The SS did a detailed video of Dealey Plaza, the TSBD, etc. shortly after the assassination. According to Max Holland on a video he posted in conjunction with "The Lost Bullet", this SS re-creation was done 5 DAYS AFTER the assassination. The flower arrangements sitting on the Knoll in the pic you posted are positioned very closely to the SS images of the Knoll and the flowers on it then. I believe your timeline with respect to the pic you posted is incorrect. Also, the pic you posted shows little if any of the ground area (N) of the big tree that was roughly in line with The Bench. This area (N) of the big tree would be the same area that the guy/kid was shown in Towner 3. Your posted pic therefore provides nothing with respect to that guy/kid standing on something against/near the fence in Towner 3.
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Great work yet again Hackers.
There is also this Allen pic from the day:
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZnSvGxT7/Allenphoto1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
A close-up reveals a similar lack of dirt piles.
(https://i.postimg.cc/QMYRYfqD/Allenphoto1a.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Your image and the "close-up" Fail to detail the ground area from the large tree (N). This is where the action was unfolding including the guy/kid on Towner 3. I get the feeling that you have Not listened to the 6/6/1989 Sixth Floor Interview of Gordon Arnold. Until you hear his Sixth Floor interview, your research is incomplete resulting in a half baked opinion.
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Your image and the "close-up" Fail to detail the ground area from the large tree (N). This is where the action was unfolding including the guy/kid on Towner 3. I get the feeling that you have Not listened to the 6/6/1989 Sixth Floor Interview of Gordon Arnold. Until you hear his Sixth Floor interview, your research is incomplete resulting in a half baked opinion.
"Half baked opinion"?
You are proposing the man in the pic below is stood on a pile of dirt two feet high.
But the red arrows highlight the same bush in both pics and they demonstrate that, beyond any doubt, there are no such dirt piles and that Gordon is FoS.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CLmPWbyS/Towner-Rifle-Cropa.png) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/VLVTJXK4/Allenphoto1b.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The letter Gordon wrote to his wife shortly after the assassination is proof enough he was nowhere near Dealey Plaza at the time.
And don't forget the little discussion you ducked out of in the Umbrella Man thread. Looking forward to hearing some of your own half baked opinions.
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"Half baked opinion"?
You are proposing the man in the pic below is stood on a pile of dirt two feet high.
But the red arrows highlight the same bush in both pics and they demonstrate that, beyond any doubt, there are no such dirt piles and that Gordon is FoS.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CLmPWbyS/Towner-Rifle-Cropa.png) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/VLVTJXK4/Allenphoto1b.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The letter Gordon wrote to his wife shortly after the assassination is proof enough he was nowhere near Dealey Plaza at the time.
And don't forget the little discussion you ducked out of in the Umbrella Man thread. Looking forward to hearing some of your own half baked opinions.
You're simply not familiar with that area inside Dealey Plaza. For starters, that's not a bush it's a tree back in the parking lot/train yard area. Regarding the dirt piles, I said there was something that guy/kid was standing atop. Could be a dirt pile, could be something else stacked up/leaning against the picket fence, something alongside/hugging the picket fence, etc. Maybe another bench, but something is giving that individual his high vantage point over the fence. Stop taking what an image is spoon feeding you and ask yourself serious introspective questions. I'm estimating that the guy/kid is roughly 20 feet from the very end of the picket fence. Why would he go to all the trouble of climbing that fence to see over it, when all he had to do was travel (N) another 20 feet to be around it and on the other side of it to give him the desired view? I believe this guy/kid was probably running up that cement walkway, took the cement fork that veered leftward directly toward the train yard, and then his eye/attention was probably attracted to something leaning against or something hugging the picket fence. Why would a guy choose to climb atop a fence when all he had to do was move forward another 10-15 steps, round-the-fence, and then be on the other side? Think things through instead of permitting yourself to be spoon fed these bread crumb snap shots that lead to incorrect conclusions. You'll be glad you did. I guarantee it!
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We need to be very careful when time stamping ALL assassination images. The SS did a detailed video of Dealey Plaza, the TSBD, etc. shortly after the assassination. According to Max Holland on a video he posted in conjunction with "The Lost Bullet", this SS re-creation was done 5 DAYS AFTER the assassination. The flower arrangements sitting on the Knoll in the pic you posted are positioned very closely to the SS images of the Knoll and the flowers on it then. I believe your timeline with respect to the pic you posted is incorrect. Also, the pic you posted shows little if any of the ground area (N) of the big tree that was roughly in line with The Bench. This area (N) of the big tree would be the same area that the guy/kid was shown in Towner 3. Your posted pic therefore provides nothing with respect to that guy/kid standing on something against/near the fence in Towner 3.
Edit 20231025
I realize now that the stacked 8 frame clip came from a snippet from the SS reconstruction film. I have December 5th for that date.
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Its certainly possible that a person could in a firing position on the top of the hood a car behind the pocket fence and had some foliage that allowed him some concealment, but then why would he jump over the fence to be in front of it, after he fired a shot?
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You're simply not familiar with that area inside Dealey Plaza. For starters, that's not a bush it's a tree back in the parking lot/train yard area. Regarding the dirt piles, I said there was something that guy/kid was standing atop. Could be a dirt pile, could be something else stacked up/leaning against the picket fence, something alongside/hugging the picket fence, etc. Maybe another bench, but something is giving that individual his high vantage point over the fence. Stop taking what an image is spoon feeding you and ask yourself serious introspective questions. I'm estimating that the guy/kid is roughly 20 feet from the very end of the picket fence. Why would he go to all the trouble of climbing that fence to see over it, when all he had to do was travel (N) another 20 feet to be around it and on the other side of it to give him the desired view? I believe this guy/kid was probably running up that cement walkway, took the cement fork that veered leftward directly toward the train yard, and then his eye/attention was probably attracted to something leaning against or something hugging the picket fence. Why would a guy choose to climb atop a fence when all he had to do was move forward another 10-15 steps, round-the-fence, and then be on the other side? Think things through instead of permitting yourself to be spoon fed these bread crumb snap shots that lead to incorrect conclusions. You'll be glad you did. I guarantee it!
Everything you say is wrong.
It's incredible but incredibly consistent.
You insist the guy/kid is stood right next to the fence, that he is stood on top of something.
Kindly point out in the picture below what he could be stood on.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VLVTJXK4/Allenphoto1b.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
PS: Are you aware of the letter Arnold wrote to his wife?
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Its certainly possible that a person could in a firing position on the top of the hood a car behind the pocket fence and had some foliage that allowed him some concealment, but then why would he jump over the fence to be in front of it, after he fired a shot?
This is commonly done by a 2 Man Team. 1 Shooter + 1 Spotter/Look-Out. I believe Lee Bowers viewed this 2 Man Team from the Railroad Control Tower and then described them during his Warren Commission testimony. That Railroad Control Tower is directly in line with the parking spaces that run diagonally into the N-S section of the picket fence. The individuals that Bower described were easy for him to follow as they were moving in contrast to the stationary N-S section of the picket fence. I believe the No Hat Cop that accosted Gordon Arnold immediately following the Kill Shot was the Spotter and that he was probably already stationed on Arnold's side of the fence and (N) of the large tree that sits roughly 3 feet out from the picket fence. This No Hat Cop is the same one we see on that short snippet of the Darnell Film. Same area, same no hat cop, except on the Darnell Film he is now conducting crowd control duties.
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Everything you say is wrong.
It's incredible but incredibly consistent.
You insist the guy/kid is stood right next to the fence, that he is stood on top of something.
Kindly point out in the picture below what he could be stood on.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VLVTJXK4/Allenphoto1b.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
PS: Are you aware of the letter Arnold wrote to his wife?
That large tree in your photo sits roughly 3 feet out from the picket fence. You can walk between the picket fence and that tree. In that pic, you can Not see jack in detail from that tree down to the (N) end of the picket fence.
I have not seen the letter you reference. I have heard the Arnold Sixth Floor Interview and his Widow and Son's Sixth Floor Interview that was conducted by Gary Mack. Arnold did not leave for Alaska until a week following the assassination. His wife detailed his telling her of his experience on 11/22/63 immediately after it happened. Same goes for Arnold's version of this story during his Sixth Floor interview. Arnold detailed reporting to superiors in the Army what had happened at Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63. Maybe whatever is in that letter you are referencing reflects his debriefing with senior officers at that point in time? "The walls have ears" rings true especially in a military environment. Arnold's interview and that of his widow and son provide information/facts that further this case. This might explain why we never hear anything about these Sixth Floor interviews. Like many that are involved in this Forum, I have been researching the JFK Assassination for decades. Yet NOBODY mentions there being Arnold Family interviews. This includes Gary Mack himself who conducted one of these interviews. These interviews have been buried deep. Ask yourself why this is the case.
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"Half baked opinion"?
You are proposing the man in the pic below is stood on a pile of dirt two feet high.
But the red arrows highlight the same bush in both pics and they demonstrate that, beyond any doubt, there are no such dirt piles and that Gordon is FoS.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CLmPWbyS/Towner-Rifle-Cropa.png) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/VLVTJXK4/Allenphoto1b.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The letter Gordon wrote to his wife shortly after the assassination is proof enough he was nowhere near Dealey Plaza at the time.
And don't forget the little discussion you ducked out of in the Umbrella Man thread. Looking forward to hearing some of your own half baked opinions.
Your red arrows are pointing down at objects that are way out in the parking lot/railroad yard area. They are Not pointing at anything in close proximity to the Picket Fence. You are unfamiliar with this 1963 Dealey Plaza area.
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Your red arrows are pointing down at objects that are way out in the parking lot/railroad yard area. They are Not pointing at anything in close proximity to the Picket Fence. You are unfamiliar with this 1963 Dealey Plaza area.
The pictures posted by myself and James demonstrate there are no big piles of dirt in the area in front of the picket fence.
Around the perimeter of the picket fence are a series of bushes:
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZnSvGxT7/Allenphoto1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
For you to imagine the bush picked out by the red arrow isn't in close proximity to the picket fence hints at a tenuous grasp of reality.
The photographic evidence proves there are no big dirt piles or anything else by the picket fence that someone can stand on.
The guy/kid is stood on one of the low walls pictured earlier in the thread:
(https://i.imgur.com/aZWro3o.jpg)
Note, the bush next to the tree is the grown up bush picked out by the red arrow.
Arnold's dirt piles don't exist. The letter he wrote to his wife proves he wasn't there.
Get over it.
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The pictures posted by myself and James demonstrate there are no big piles of dirt in the area in front of the picket fence.
Around the perimeter of the picket fence are a series of bushes:
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZnSvGxT7/Allenphoto1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
For you to imagine the bush picked out by the red arrow isn't in close proximity to the picket fence hints at a tenuous grasp of reality.
The photographic evidence proves there are no big dirt piles or anything else by the picket fence that someone can stand on.
The guy/kid is stood on one of the low walls pictured earlier in the thread:
(https://i.imgur.com/aZWro3o.jpg)
Note, the bush next to the tree is the grown up bush picked out by the red arrow.
Arnold's dirt piles don't exist. The letter he wrote to his wife proves he wasn't there.
Get over it.
I continue urging you to do some legit research before stating anything as being Fact. There was no bush as designated by your Red Arrows in that area of the Picket Fence. None. Go over to "You Tube" and watch the Skinny Holland interview that was conducted by Mark Lane. During this interview, Holland physically walks Lane through the journey he and his fellow railroad workers took on 11/22/63. They walk from the top of the Triple Underpass over to the inside of the parking lot. Upon Holland physically walking through the inside of the parking lot, we also see the (N) end of the picket fence. And please do Not try to now move your Red Arrows. They are Not close to the big tree. Focus on your Red Arrows clearly being on the (R) of the guy/kid on the fence.
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"Half baked opinion"?
You are proposing the man in the pic below is stood on a pile of dirt two feet high.
But the red arrows highlight the same bush in both pics and they demonstrate that, beyond any doubt, there are no such dirt piles and that Gordon is FoS.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CLmPWbyS/Towner-Rifle-Cropa.png) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/VLVTJXK4/Allenphoto1b.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The letter Gordon wrote to his wife shortly after the assassination is proof enough he was nowhere near Dealey Plaza at the time.
And don't forget the little discussion you ducked out of in the Umbrella Man thread. Looking forward to hearing some of your own half baked opinions.
For the record
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I continue urging you to do some legit research before stating anything as being Fact. There was no bush as designated by your Red Arrows in that area of the Picket Fence. None. Go over to "You Tube" and watch the Skinny Holland interview that was conducted by Mark Lane. During this interview, Holland physically walks Lane through the journey he and his fellow railroad workers took on 11/22/63. They walk from the top of the Triple Underpass over to the inside of the parking lot. Upon Holland physically walking through the inside of the parking lot, we also see the (N) end of the picket fence. And please do Not try to now move your Red Arrows. They are Not close to the big tree. Focus on your Red Arrows clearly being on the (R) of the guy/kid on the fence.
Upon Holland physically walking through the inside of the parking lot, we also see the (N) end of the picket fence.
This is the video of the Lane/Holland interview. Give me the time on the video where we see the north end of the picket fence.
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Upon Holland physically walking through the inside of the parking lot, we also see the (N) end of the picket fence.
This is the video of the Lane/Holland interview. Give me the time on the video where we see the north end of the picket fence.
I have tried to help you by directing you to the Holland interview. As my Dad used to say, "I'll work With you, but I'll be damned if I'll work For you". Time for you to do your part. Watch the video and gain some knowledge.
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I have tried to help you by directing you to the Holland interview. As my Dad used to say, "I'll work With you, but I'll be damned if I'll work For you". Time for you to do your part. Watch the video and gain some knowledge.
It doesn't show the north end of the picket fence.
That's the point I'm making.
How do you explain your assertion that we can see the north end of the picket fence in this video when it is not shown.
There's no point asking you what this video has got to do with the topic at hand as it doesn't show the area we're talking about.
You seem to be all talk, Royell.
Time to back it up.
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Someone, (Denis?) posted a very clear cropped version of Towner3 at Denis Morrissette’s Facebook group. We now can tell there is no gun, vaulting pole, Pogo Stick or whatever our fertile minds can vision. We can see now the thin purse strap held or wrapped around the left forearm of Marylin Sitzman!
(https://i.imgur.com/SZbAPhd.png)
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It doesn't show the north end of the picket fence.
That's the point I'm making.
How do you explain your assertion that we can see the north end of the picket fence in this video when it is not shown.
There's no point asking you what this video has got to do with the topic at hand as it doesn't show the area we're talking about.
You seem to be all talk, Royell.
Time to back it up.
Not only do we see the (N) end of the Picket Fence, we also see the side of The Shelter too. I'll give you a tip when viewing film clips, still frames, or photos. Find a known Land Mark, focus on that, and then work from point. In this Holland interview, your Land Mark would be the large tree. I'm gonna take the high road here and just say, "You're Welcome".
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Someone, (Denis?) posted a very clear cropped version of Towner3 at Denis Morrissette’s Facebook group. We now can tell there is no gun, vaulting pole, Pogo Stick or whatever our fertile minds can vision. We can see now the thin purse strap held or wrapped around the left forearm of Marylin Sitzman!
(https://i.imgur.com/SZbAPhd.png)
That Towner 3 Crop on the (L) is lifted from Groden's "The Killing Of A President". Thanks for posting that still frame from what serves as the Intro to the Zapruder Film. Mostly cropped out of that still frame on the (R) Bottom is Mr Hester. He is sitting on an cement abutment that extends outward from the Shelter. Mr Hester seated on that abutment gives the viewer an idea as to the height above the ground a person standing on it would achieve. Long story short = Not Much. This is exactly why that guy/kid pictured on Towner 3 is NOT standing on said abutment extending out of the other shelter. There's no way standing on such would place his knees at the very top of the picket fence/pickets we see on his (L).
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Not only do we see the (N) end of the Picket Fence, we also see the side of The Shelter too. I'll give you a tip when viewing film clips, still frames, or photos. Find a known Land Mark, focus on that, and then work from point. In this Holland interview, your Land Mark would be the large tree. I'm gonna take the high road here and just say, "You're Welcome".
This is the furthest point along the picket fence in the video.
At no point do we see the end of the picket fence.
(https://i.postimg.cc/h4NnbBFm/Lane-Holland.png) (https://postimages.org/)
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Royell predicted earlier this year that we really do not know if the couple that threw their bottles down were the couple with the little baby boy or a completely different couple. Apparently they were a completely different couple. Gordon Arnold said that there were two couples near him. One couple had a baby boy who would not keep quiet and drove him crazy. This couple with the baby boy were in no hurry to leave. This Murray photo is time stamped at 12:42pm. The mother and little buy in white have moved to the concrete island near the TSBD. Sincerely yours, Michael
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Murrayscan16.jpg)
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That Towner 3 Crop on the (L) is lifted from Groden's "The Killing Of A President". Thanks for posting that still frame from what serves as the Intro to the Zapruder Film. Mostly cropped out of that still frame on the (R) Bottom is Mr Hester. He is sitting on an cement abutment that extends outward from the Shelter. Mr Hester seated on that abutment gives the viewer an idea as to the height above the ground a person standing on it would achieve. Long story short = Not Much. This is exactly why that guy/kid pictured on Towner 3 is NOT standing on said abutment extending out of the other shelter. There's no way standing on such would place his knees at the very top of the picket fence/pickets we see on his (L).
The steps abutment Mr. Hester sits on is two full steps lower (11-12”) than Sitzman’s. Plenty of height for Ms. Sitzman.
(https://i.imgur.com/jk8mfgw.jpg)
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This is the furthest point along the picket fence in the video.
At no point do we see the end of the picket fence.
(https://i.postimg.cc/h4NnbBFm/Lane-Holland.png) (https://postimages.org/)
I never said you could, "see the end of the picket fence". That guy/kid on Towner 3 is not at, "the end of the fence".
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Royell predicted earlier this year that we really do not know if the couple that threw their bottles down were the couple with the little baby boy or a completely different couple. Apparently they were a completely different couple. Gordon Arnold said that there were two couples near him. One couple had a baby boy who would not keep quiet and drove him crazy. This couple with the baby boy were in no hurry to leave. This Murray photo is time stamped at 12:42pm. The mother and little buy in white have moved to the concrete island near the TSBD. Sincerely yours, Michael
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Murrayscan16.jpg)
With Sitzman being the only person to claim seeing a couple sitting on the bench, I'm not rubber stamping that claim/ID. I took the Arnold reference to a loud boy as being attached to the Newman family. The Newman's permitted their boy to play with a pair of pliers there on the knoll, so the kid musta been a handful and they were doing whatever they could to occupy him/his time. I thought maybe the boy stood out to Arnold due to the racket he was making, and he overlooked the quieter girl. Just my opinion, but I place the bench behind Arnold a little bit. The couples being referenced by Arnold I believe were in Front of him. This is why I thought his mentioning 2 couples was very interesting. I believe he was talking about a currently unknown couple.
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The steps abutment Mr. Hester sits on is two full steps lower (11-12”) than Sitzman’s. Plenty of height for Ms. Sitzman.
(https://i.imgur.com/jk8mfgw.jpg)
Take note that Towner 3 shows OPEN SPACE between that guy/kid and the shelter. You put that individual on the top step or maybe even 1 step lower and that open space would be filled. The Top step puts him partially inside the shelter. That space we are seeing between the individual and the shelter and how high he is on the picket fence puts him on the picket fence. Also, this individual would need to be standing sideways/profile in order to be standing with his back to the camera in order to be projected face forward onto the fence.
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I originally thought that the far storm sewer drain at the junction of the end of the picket fence and the concrete bridge abutment (triple overpass) was the most probable place for a GK shooter.
There are photos that show that cars were parked all around this area which could conceal a shooter in a ground level posture , possibly even while he was standing IN the sewer pipe!
But the problem became the angle of the shot would be very difficult to have hit the right side of JFKs head, because of how JFK had slumped slightly towards Jackie after the Z223-225 shot.
There was coincidentally if I recall, a man who was detained very shortly after shots fired , at the other end of that storm drain that opened up to a stream. No rifle was found in the storm drain, but the man could have put the rifle in the trunk of one of the cars before he used the drain like to escape.
It would also be a way for the gunman to approach , unseen, to the GK carrying a rifle by entering the drain far back where the opening near the stream was.
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I never said you could, "see the end of the picket fence". That guy/kid on Towner 3 is not at, "the end of the fence".
You seem a bit befuddled Royell. This is from your Reply#34:
"...we also see the (N) end of the picket fence."
And this is from your Reply#40:
"Not only do we see the (N) end of the Picket Fence..."
You repeatedly reference seeing the end of the picket fence and now you deny all knowledge of it.
Just for future reference, this forum is a written record, the things you post don't just disappear, they can be retrieved at any moment.
Also, learn how words work, it will be very useful for your research and when trying to convey your half-baked ideas.
For example, your notion that the person in the picture is stood directly next to the picket fence is utterly ludicrous. It is a truly half-baked notion, particularly as you have been shown multiple images of the area in question which demonstrate, beyond doubt, that there is nothing for anyone to stand on.
What you clearly don't grasp is that the person is a lot closer to you than you think. It's called "Perspective".
Not only do you need to learn how words work, you need to learn how perspective works.
I hope you've got enough to keep yourself busy there - lots to learn. It's good to keep your mind active at your clearly advanced age.
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You seem a bit befuddled Royell. This is from your Reply#34:
"...we also see the (N) end of the picket fence."
And this is from your Reply#40:
"Not only do we see the (N) end of the Picket Fence..."
You repeatedly reference seeing the end of the picket fence and now you deny all knowledge of it.
Just for future reference, this forum is a written record, the things you post don't just disappear, they can be retrieved at any moment.
Also, learn how words work, it will be very useful for your research and when trying to convey your half-baked ideas.
For example, your notion that the person in the picture is stood directly next to the picket fence is utterly ludicrous. It is a truly half-baked notion, particularly as you have been shown multiple images of the area in question which demonstrate, beyond doubt, that there is nothing for anyone to stand on.
What you clearly don't grasp is that the person is a lot closer to you than you think. It's called "Perspective".
Not only do you need to learn how words work, you need to learn how perspective works.
I hope you've got enough to keep yourself busy there - lots to learn. It's good to keep your mind active at your clearly advanced age.
If I had meant the literal end of the fence, I would have explicitly said the VERY END of the fence. My referencing the "(N) end of the fence" is akin to referencing the "(N) end of a town or block or state". This doesn't translate into "last house on the block" or the literal "boundary line" between towns or states or even countries.
Regarding the "closeness" of this person on the picket fence in Towner 3, the picket fence is NOT close to that shelter opening/steps/abutment. And again, that individual is going to have to be positioned with his back to the camera. This means he would be standing SIDEWAYS on the Shelter Steps or Abutment. Placing this individual SIDEWAYS on the VERY top step would place a portion of his body INSIDE the shelter vs our seeing open space between him and the edge of the shelter on Towner 3. The lower you place this person on the shelter steps or even that abutment, the HIGHER you are throwing him up onto the picket fence in order to have the top of the picket fence at just above his knees. Keeping in mind the distance and upward projection you are claiming to move this individual via "perspective", instead brings to mind catapulting him up against the picket fence. Nonsensical.
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Marilyn Sitzman on S Pergola 2nd step 3D sims
(https://i.imgur.com/0cakkeN.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/JWLRIrN.gif)
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Marilyn Sitzman on S Pergola 2nd step 3D sims
(https://i.imgur.com/0cakkeN.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/JWLRIrN.gif)
And that's the end of that.
Great work, yet again, James.
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And that's the end of that.
Great work, yet again, James.
Hi James and Dan, This is a man not a woman. He is not wearing a head scarf. Thank you for everything! Sincerely yours, Michael
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As I continue to point out, Towner 3 shows the TOP of the picket fence/pickets to be just above the guy/kid's knees. The provided cartoon has those pickets almost waist high. And the knees clear up to the mid torso are leaning over/INSIDE the shelter, vs Towner 3 showing open space/a gap between the guy/kid's body and the Shelter. Why is a Sitzman knock-off being utilized here? I've never heard Sitzman talk of being in this position or viewed an image of her in this spot.
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Before you get to far along, I believe the 5.5" per fence board/picket is too large. More like 3.5"
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(https://images2.imgbox.com/ef/e8/GfAXt2zv_o.png)
I'm going to try some 3D here but need some measurements, even if best guess. The "6'" in the graphic refers to the height of the figure standing on the sidewalk.
I've heard the fence height might be 4.5 feet high, but Cutler and 1981 "Topo Map" says it was five-feet high. I'm using the latter. I made the fence boards 5.5" wide, which is a dressed lumber width and have a 1/4" gap between them.
(https://cdn.getyourguide.com/img/tour/5c77980e8758a.jpeg/146.jpg)
I believe, probably late 1990's or early-mid 2000 or so the original fence was completely removed, and later replaced. I think is was placed on the order of 4-5 inches distant from the original - at least on the eastern side. The Delarosa board, was active at that time. Maybe something in the usenet archives.
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I believe, probably late 1990's or 2000's or so the original fence was completely removed, and later replaced. I think is was placed on the order of 4-5 inches distant from the original - at least on the eastern side. The Delarosa board, was active at that time.
If you're gonna shorten the E-W Picket Fence on the VERY (E) end, then you likewise have to move the entire N-S section (W) in order to maintain the Files Corner.
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I found this link that may be helpful. Maybe the museum has some in their basement.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2005/may/14/grassy-knoll-fence-set-for-sale/
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I found this link that may be helpful. Maybe the museum has some in their basement.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2005/may/14/grassy-knoll-fence-set-for-sale/
I have 8mm video from 1990 (very poor but maybe useful) and a photo from 2021, for comparison from the Z pedestal. Maybe these will help.
(https://i.imgur.com/JnPJgLF.png)
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Here's one for the Tinfoil Brigade that I don't think has been spotted before.
I was looking through some Towner pics when I noticed the character circled in red:
(https://i.postimg.cc/NfcZjKKs/Towner-Rifle1.jpg)
A closer look appears to reveal someone carrying a rifle in the seconds after the assassination:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Nf3SSjvc/Towner-Rifle-Crop.png)
Go figure.
Actually, this person has been referred to as an assassin since long ago. I remember it being discussed in John McAdams newsgroup. They can't tell the difference between a twig and a rifle, and no assassin is going to hang around out in the open putting his rifle on display for everyone over a minute after the assassination took place.
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Actually, this person has been referred to as an assassin since long ago. I remember it being discussed in John McAdams newsgroup. They can't tell the difference between a twig and a rifle, and no assassin is going to hang around out in the open putting his rifle on display for everyone over a minute after the assassination took place.
Steve, if you would comment on my interpretation in post 39 of this thread I'd appreciate it.
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Actually, this person has been referred to as an assassin since long ago. I remember it being discussed in John McAdams newsgroup. They can't tell the difference between a twig and a rifle, and no assassin is going to hang around out in the open putting his rifle on display for everyone over a minute after the assassination took place.
Considering the minuscule amount it takes for some people to whisk up a theory, I was surprised I hadn't seen this come up before.
I think James has provided the answer why it didn't take off in an earlier post.
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Someone, (Denis?) posted a very clear cropped version of Towner3 at Denis Morrissette’s Facebook group. We now can tell there is no gun, vaulting pole, Pogo Stick or whatever our fertile minds can vision. We can see now the thin purse strap held or wrapped around the left forearm of Marylin Sitzman!
(https://i.imgur.com/SZbAPhd.png)
Is it possible to post a copy of this "very clear cropped version" as I'm having difficulty reconciling Sitzman with the figure in Towner.
I get the impression the shirt/blouse/whatever it is covers the elbows of the Towner figure but Sitzman's elbows are totally exposed.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/bYBzKgLm/Towner-Sitzman1.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Are the straps you mention what I've picked out with the red lines.
If so, the straps seem a lot longer than Sitzman's bag.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/bYBzKgLm/Towner-Sitzman1.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Are the straps you mention what I've picked out with the red lines.
If so, the straps seem a lot longer than Sitzman's bag.
That image was a crop of Dennis' image. I think this was the first version that I could see clear resolution of the two straps, if that's what they are. Tonight I went through the Sitzman/Hesters scenes of Zapruder's film. I wondered too about the length of the straps and spent some time tonight researching women's purses. I guess I'll start getting ads for those LOL. I have to remember there is a lot of vertical motion blur in Towner3 and maybe that may make the straps appear longer. I also noted that her scarf was sometimes fully in view from behind, but other views the wind had blown it mostly to the left (north) side of her neck. That would be her right side in the Towner3. Thanks for looking into this.
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Actually, this person has been referred to as an assassin since long ago. I remember it being discussed in John McAdams newsgroup. They can't tell the difference between a twig and a rifle, and no assassin is going to hang around out in the open putting his rifle on display for everyone over a minute after the assassination took place.
The reason the image of this guy/kid hanging on the fence is only sporadically discussed is due to the pic/TOWNER 3 usually being cropped. The guy/kid is cropped out of the pic along with the shelter and the people inside it. To recap, we gotta guy/kid perched high atop the picket fence and a No Hat Cop. Both of these guys are in the same area shortly after the assassination.
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Is it possible to post a copy of this "very clear cropped version" as I'm having difficulty reconciling Sitzman with the figure in Towner.
I get the impression the shirt/blouse/whatever it is covers the elbows of the Towner figure but Sitzman's elbows are totally exposed.
No way is that Sitzman we are seeing on the picket fence. Forget it.
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The reason the image of this guy/kid hanging on the fence is only sporadically discussed is due to the pic/TOWNER 3 usually being cropped. The guy/kid is cropped out of the pic along with the shelter and the people inside it. To recap, we gotta guy/kid perched high atop the picket fence and a No Hat Cop. Both of these guys are in the same area shortly after the assassination.
To recap, we gotta guy/kid perched high atop the picket fence and a No Hat Cop
:D
You couldn't be any more wrong.
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To recap, we gotta guy/kid perched high atop the picket fence and a No Hat Cop
:D
You couldn't be any more wrong.
And we also have an Unidentified Motorcycle Cop shadowing Roger Craig across the train yard. This same alleged Motorcycle Cop after traveling across the train yard then meanders down the Elm Ext toward the TSBD. I would appreciate ANYONE providing an ID for this Motor Cop. To recap, we now have: (1) A No Hat Cop, and (2) An Unidentified Motorcycle Cop in the train yard who then walks down the Elm Ext only minutes following the assassination.
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And we also have an Unidentified Motorcycle Cop shadowing Roger Craig across the train yard. This same alleged Motorcycle Cop after traveling across the train yard then meanders down the Elm Ext toward the TSBD. I would appreciate ANYONE providing an ID for this Motor Cop. To recap, we now have: (1) A No Hat Cop, and (2) An Unidentified Motorcycle Cop in the train yard who then walks down the Elm Ext only minutes following the assassination.
The motorcycle cop can only be Haygood - "And I left my motor on the street and ran to the railroad yard."
Is the pic below a close-up of the No-Hat Cop people seem to be on about?:
(https://i.postimg.cc/MTzr8GP2/NoHatCop.png) (https://postimages.org/)
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And we also have an Unidentified Motorcycle Cop shadowing Roger Craig across the train yard. This same alleged Motorcycle Cop after traveling across the train yard then meanders down the Elm Ext toward the TSBD. I would appreciate ANYONE providing an ID for this Motor Cop. To recap, we now have: (1) A No Hat Cop, and (2) An Unidentified Motorcycle Cop in the train yard who then walks down the Elm Ext only minutes following the assassination.
Hi Royell, It could be Samuel Q. Bellah. Here is a picture of him. Thank you for everything! Sincerely yours, Michael
(https://jfkinvestigators.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/bellah-s-q-in-allen-photo.jpg?w=369)
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The motorcycle cop can only be Haygood - "And I left my motor on the street and ran to the railroad yard."
Is the pic below a close-up of the No-Hat Cop people seem to be on about?:
(https://i.postimg.cc/MTzr8GP2/NoHatCop.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Is it my imagination or is the No-Hat Cop wearing a round, white helmet?
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Is it my imagination or is the No-Hat Cop wearing a round, white helmet?
Looks like Margaret Hamilton/Wicked Witch in, "The Wizard Of Oz".
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The motorcycle cop can only be Haygood - "And I left my motor on the street and ran to the railroad yard."
Is the pic below a close-up of the No-Hat Cop people seem to be on about?:
(https://i.postimg.cc/MTzr8GP2/NoHatCop.png) (https://postimages.org/)
I recommend you familiarize yourself with Officer Haygood's WC testimony. The Haygood timeline does not come close to meeting this alleged Motorcycle Cop's extended time journey, (on foot), across the train yard and then down the Elm Ext.
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I recommend you familiarize yourself with Officer Haygood's WC testimony.
If you knew anything about anything you'd know I quoted from Haygood's Wc testimony.
The Haygood timeline does not come close to meeting this alleged Motorcycle Cop's extended time journey, (on foot), across the train yard and then down the Elm Ext.
You don't have a clue how long it took for anyone to walk anywhere.
As usual, you're just making it up.
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If you knew anything about anything you'd know I quoted from Haygood's Wc testimony.
You don't have a clue how long it took for anyone to walk anywhere.
As usual, you're just making it up.
I don't know if you skip read, Angela Wood it, or what you are doing. I do know your reading comprehension is faulty for whatever the reason. In Haygood's Warren Commission Testimony, the attorney questions him as to a 12:35 radio transmission he made from his motorcycle regarding getting cops over to the TSBD. Haygood confirmed to the attorney that he made this 12:35 transmission from his motorcycle. The attorney then asks Haygood about a 12:37 transmission he also made from the motorcycle and Haygood confirmed this transmission also. This means that Motorcycle Officer Haygood was BACK at his motorcycle by 12:35 in order to make his initial 12:35 transmission. That alleged motorcycle cop is filmed by Darnell walking across the train yard and then walking down the Elm Ext toward the TSBD. At this point, if this is Haygood, he still has to walk well down Elm St to reach his motorcycle which is sitting in front of the Ft Worth Sign. I'm estimating it took Haygood 1:45- 2:00 to arrive at the Elm St curb, dump his bike, straighten it back up, run across the knoll, and then climb atop the Triple Underpass. There's NO WAY in roughly 3 minutes Haygood then could reach the train yard, WALK across the train yard, travel down the Elm Ext, and then down Elm St to reach his motorcycle and make his documented and self confirmed 12:35 transmission. And remember that Darnell filmed this alleged Motorcycle Cop walking across the train yard and then walking down the Elm Ext toward the TSBD. Darnell filmed the final press bus and the cop car behind it as they went under the Triple Underpass. This means that Darnell did NOT even cross to the (N) side of Elm St until the entire JFK Motorcade had traveled under the Triple Underpass. At this point Darnell has still NOT even got inside the train yard to film this alleged DPD motorcycle cop. It probably took Darnell at least 3+ minutes to even get inside the train yard and begin his filming back there. There is NO WAY this is Officer Haygood we are seeing on the Darnell Film. That 12:35 transmission Haygood made from his motorcycle DQ's him as being the motorcycle cop we see on the Darnell Film. Do the math. So the question remains. Who is this alleged DPD Motorcycle Cop that Darnell filmed inside the train yard and then walking down the Elm Ext?
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I don't know if you skip read, Angela Wood it, or what you are doing. I do know your reading comprehension is faulty for whatever the reason. In Haygood's Warren Commission Testimony, the attorney questions him as to a 12:35 radio transmission he made from his motorcycle regarding getting cops over to the TSBD. Haygood confirmed to the attorney that he made this 12:35 transmission from his motorcycle. The attorney then asks Haygood about a 12:37 transmission he also made from the motorcycle and Haygood confirmed this transmission also. This means that Motorcycle Officer Haygood was BACK at his motorcycle by 12:35 in order to make his initial 12:35 transmission. That alleged motorcycle cop is filmed by Darnell walking across the train yard and then walking down the Elm Ext toward the TSBD. At this point, if this is Haygood, he still has to walk well down Elm St to reach his motorcycle which is sitting in front of the Ft Worth Sign. I'm estimating it took Haygood 1:45- 2:00 to arrive at the Elm St curb, dump his bike, straighten it back up, run across the knoll, and then climb atop the Triple Underpass. There's NO WAY in roughly 3 minutes Haygood then could reach the train yard, WALK across the train yard, travel down the Elm Ext, and then down Elm St to reach his motorcycle and make his documented and self confirmed 12:35 transmission. And remember that Darnell filmed this alleged Motorcycle Cop walking across the train yard and then walking down the Elm Ext toward the TSBD. Darnell filmed the final press bus and the cop car behind it as they went under the Triple Underpass. This means that Darnell did NOT even cross to the (N) side of Elm St until the entire JFK Motorcade had traveled under the Triple Underpass. At this point Darnell has still NOT even got inside the train yard to film this alleged DPD motorcycle cop. It probably took Darnell at least 3+ minutes to even get inside the train yard and begin his filming back there. There is NO WAY this is Officer Haygood we are seeing on the Darnell Film. That 12:35 transmission Haygood made from his motorcycle DQ's him as being the motorcycle cop we see on the Darnell Film. Do the math. So the question remains. Who is this alleged DPD Motorcycle Cop that Darnell filmed inside the train yard and then walking down the Elm Ext?
There is no Darnell photo of a motorcycle cop walking down the Elm Street extension.
Now do the math.
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There is no Darnell photo of a motorcycle cop walking down the Elm Street extension.
Now do the math.
How many times must I correct you on Rudimentary FACTS regarding the JFK Assassination? FACT: (1) It's the Darnell FILM, and (2) There is Darnell Footage of an alleged Motorcycle Cop walking down the Elm Ext toward the TSBD. And this is continuous Darnell footage that tracks the same alleged DPD Motorcycle Cop walking across the train yard behind Officer Roger Craig.
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How many times must I correct you on Rudimentary FACTS regarding the JFK Assassination? FACT: (1) It's the Darnell FILM, and (2) There is Darnell Footage of an alleged Motorcycle Cop walking down the Elm Ext toward the TSBD. And this is continuous Darnell footage that tracks the same alleged DPD Motorcycle Cop walking across the train yard behind Officer Roger Craig.
Where can I see this footage because I've never seen it and would really like to.
Is there any other forum member who can help with that?
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Where can I see this footage because I've never seen it and would really like to.
Is there any other forum member who can help with that?
Just go over to You Tube and use the Darnell Films that are posted by "The JFK Theorist". He has (2) Darnell Films posted over there. Both postings are really good and include the snippet with the No Hat Cop behind Sitzman. You're Welcome..................................Again
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Just go over to You Tube and use the Darnell Films that are posted by "The JFK Theorist". He has (2) Darnell Films posted over there. Both postings are really good and include the snippet with the No Hat Cop behind Sitzman. You're Welcome..................................Again
Where is your proof/evidence that the man captured in a few frames walking behind Marilyn Sitzman is a "cop"?
What is your proof that Clyde Haygood is not the motorcycle officer in the railroad yard footage walking south?
Also...You "asked" me to share my best copy of the Darnell footage showing the man in question behind Sitzman whom you refer to as "No hat cop". I'm not at liberty to share my copy of the film or any individual frames from it.
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Storing could have at least provided you with the link:
By the way, Dan, you are correct about Haygood. He is the "Unidentified" motorcycle officer walking south in the parking lot behind the knoll at 23:24 in this Darnell copy..
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Steve - I laid this out previously, but just for You, I will go over ALL of it again. Haygood gave WC Testimony. During his testimony the WC lawyer asked him about a 12:35 radio transmission he made from his motorcycle regarding getting cops over to the TSBD. Haygood verified that he did remember making that 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle. The attorney also questioned Haygood about a 12:37 transmission he made from his motorcycle and Haygood once again confirmed having made this transmission also. The numerous video images of (1) Haygood riding down Elm St, (2) straightening his dumped motor at the curb, (3) running across the Knoll, and then (4) pictured standing atop the Triple Underpass, give us a pretty good elapsed time BEFORE he even got on the top of the Triple Underpass. My estimate is roughly 2 Minutes time had elapsed following the Kill Shot (12:35) when Haygood managed to climb atop the Triple Underpass. This leaves roughly 3 minutes for Haygood to arrive at/search the train yard and be back at his motorcycle to make that 12:35 radio transmission that HE verified making during his WC Testimony. The alleged motorcycle cop that we see on the Darnell Film shadowing Officer Roger Craig, (1) WALKS across the entire train yard, and (2) then WALKS down the Elm St Ext toward the TSBD. This alleged motorcycle cop still has to travel down Elm St, (on foot), to the Ft Worth sign to make that 12:35 radio transmission from his motorcycle. It is physically impossible to: (1) travel from the top of the Triple Underpass to the Train Yard, (2) WALK across the train yard, (3) WALK down the entire Elm St Ext, and (4) ON FOOT, travel down Elm St amidst the pandemonium and reach the Ft Worth Sign in ONLY 3 MINUTES time. It's physically impossible to do all of this at a walking pace as seen on the Darnell Film. Either this is a still unknown DPD motorcycle cop, or a Bogus Motorcycle Cop. One or the other. One thing is for sure. It ain't Haygood
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Where is your proof/evidence that the man captured in a few frames walking behind Marilyn Sitzman is a "cop"?
What is your proof that Clyde Haygood is not the motorcycle officer in the railroad yard footage walking south?
Also...You "asked" me to share my best copy of the Darnell footage showing the man in question behind Sitzman whom you refer to as "No hat cop". I'm not at liberty to share my copy of the film or any individual frames from it.
You claim it is, "MY copy of the film"? If it is yours, then you have every right to SHARE it or any portion of it. This is a major problem with the ongoing effort to solve this case. Too many people have and continue to HOARD INFORMATION. The more eyes and minds that are aimed at solving this case, the sooner it will be resolved one way or the other. "Don't BOGART That Joint" rings true here.
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You claim it is, "MY copy of the film"? If it is yours, then you have every right to SHARE it or any portion of it. This is a major problem with the ongoing effort to solve this case. Too many people have and continue to HOARD INFORMATION. The more eyes and minds that are aimed at solving this case, the sooner it will be resolved one way or the other. "Don't BOGART That Joint" rings true here.
You can whine and carry on all you want, Storing. Here, Let me put it into words that a child would understand. In my saying the words "My copy" it's another way of saying the copy that I have from an un named source pointed out intructions to me not to do this and that with the copy. The fact that you think I--or anyone else--should go against the wishes of someone who shares something with another under certain circumstances, this means that you are not one never to be trusted. However, I already know you're not one to be trusted because of the things you say and do in your posts. Alas, I'm only obeying what I was told, and if you don't like it, TOUGH! Live with it and move on because I'm not violating anyones trust for the likes of you!
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Storing could have at least provided you with the link:
By the way, Dan, you are correct about Haygood. He is the "Unidentified" motorcycle officer walking south in the parking lot behind the knoll at 23:24 in this Darnell copy..
I know Steve, and it was as I expected, there is no footage of Haygood walking down the Elm Street extension as claimed.
Haygood had a quick look around the yard and returned to his bike, end of story.
I suspect Haygood is also the No-Hat Cop people are suddenly raving about. I suppose a helmet might be different from a hat ::)
You are also correct about the No-Hat Cop behind Sitzman being someone in civilian clothing but I suspect that won't dampen the Tinfoil Brigade's celebrations over their new "discovery".
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Steve, if you would comment on my interpretation in post 39 of this thread I'd appreciate it.
Hi James. Sorry it took me so long. I hadn't seen your comment, so please forgive my tardiness.
I believe that the person standing on the block that is part of the stairs leading to the inside of the pergola- I think this a male dressed in light khaki's and a shirt. I think what people believe is a "rifle" is absurd and is either something in the immediate background, or, a tree branch. That's just my opinion.
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I know Steve, and it was as I expected, there is no footage of Haygood walking down the Elm Street extension as claimed.
Haygood had a quick look around the yard and returned to his bike, end of story.
I suspect Haygood is also the No-Hat Cop people are suddenly raving about. I suppose a helmet might be different from a hat ::)
You are also correct about the No-Hat Cop behind Sitzman being someone in civilian clothing but I suspect that won't dampen the Tinfoil Brigade's celebrations over their new "discovery".
You obviously are unfamiliar with the Elm St Ext. That alleged motorcycle cop is walking straight down it without question.
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You can whine and carry on all you want, Storing. Here, Let me put it into words that a child would understand. In my saying the words "My copy" it's another way of saying the copy that I have from an un named source pointed out intructions to me not to do this and that with the copy. The fact that you think I--or anyone else--should go against the wishes of someone who shares something with another under certain circumstances, this means that you are not one never to be trusted. However, I already know you're not one to be trusted because of the things you say and do in your posts. Alas, I'm only obeying what I was told, and if you don't like it, TOUGH! Live with it and move on because I'm not violating anyones trust for the likes of you!
You asked about my alleged motorcycle cop behind Officer Roger Craig on the Darnell film and I detailed it. Cat got your tongue? Or is it that You now realize that I do have solid Proof. Or maybe just maybe you are actually NOW READING the Haygood WC Testimony? Old Guard Researchers such as yourself should already be familiar with WC Testimony such as this. Unfortunately, this is Not the case and explains why so many questions remain unresolved in this case.
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You can whine and carry on all you want, Storing. Here, Let me put it into words that a child would understand. In my saying the words "My copy" it's another way of saying the copy that I have from an un named source pointed out intructions to me not to do this and that with the copy. The fact that you think I--or anyone else--should go against the wishes of someone who shares something with another under certain circumstances, this means that you are not one never to be trusted. However, I already know you're not one to be trusted because of the things you say and do in your posts. Alas, I'm only obeying what I was told, and if you don't like it, TOUGH! Live with it and move on because I'm not violating anyones trust for the likes of you!
Are you at liberty to discuss the Secret Handshake?
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Where is your proof/evidence that the man captured in a few frames walking behind Marilyn Sitzman is a "cop"?
What is your proof that Clyde Haygood is not the motorcycle officer in the railroad yard footage walking south?
Also...You "asked" me to share my best copy of the Darnell footage showing the man in question behind Sitzman whom you refer to as "No hat cop". I'm not at liberty to share my copy of the film or any individual frames from it.
Barber - Waiting on You with regard to my claim that on the Darnell Film, Officer Haygood is Not the motorcycle cop shadowing Officer Roger Craig across the train yard and then walking down the Elm Ext toward the TSBD. I've laid my case/the Proof out there. What say You? Do you know the identity of that motorcycle cop?
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The letter he wrote to his wife proves he wasn't there.
Get over it.
Ok, I'll bite. How does this letter prove that he wasn't there?
(https://emuseum.jfk.org/internal/media/dispatcher/7887/preview)
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Ok, I'll bite. How does this letter prove that he wasn't there?
(https://emuseum.jfk.org/internal/media/dispatcher/7887/preview)
John - My guess is that letter was 1 of several that Gordon Arnold's Widow and Son/Jr gave the Sixth Floor Museum when Gary Mack interviewed them in 2006. The Widow and Son wanted to supply several pieces of evidence to corroborate Gordon Arnold having been in the military as he claimed in "The Men Who Killed Kennedy". The Arnold's at that same interview also gave the Sixth Floor Museum the alleged camera that Gordon Arnold used on 11/22/63. Nobody seems to know where that Arnold camera is these days, but this is in line with nobody connected to that museum EVER Saying squat about there being interviews with Arnold and/or the remaining family. This includes Gary Mack going mum even though he invented "The Badge Man" and then attached this image to Arnold in "The Men Who Killed Kennedy". So, "Nobody knows nothin' about nothin'" regarding the interviews of Arnold and his family, or anything about the alleged Arnold camera, and yet we have this leaked Arnold letter. It's sad and sobering to see that museum slowly being revealed for what it is and has been for a while now. A Front, A Fraud, A Propaganda Tool.
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Ok, I'll bite. How does this letter prove that he wasn't there?
My bad.
I most certainly should not have used the word "prove" and you are right to point it out.
The letter, a donation to the Sixth Floor Museum, is accompanied with the explanation that this letter was written shortly after the assassination.
The letter doesn't prove he wasn't there, obviously, but it is strong circumstantial evidence that Arnold wasn't there that day and nothing more than that.
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My bad.
I most certainly should not have used the word "prove" and you are right to point it out.
The letter, a donation to the Sixth Floor Museum, is accompanied with the explanation that this letter was written shortly after the assassination.
The letter doesn't prove he wasn't there, obviously, but it is strong circumstantial evidence that Arnold wasn't there that day and nothing more than that.
Like I said, Sixth Floor Museum leaks this letter out, but goes dark with regard to their conducting a Gordon Arnold Interview, and the Widow of Arnold and Son interview. Plus, they say nothing about having the alleged Arnold camera. Who knows what else they are sitting on inside what Fronts as a museum?
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My bad.
I most certainly should not have used the word "prove" and you are right to point it out.
The letter, a donation to the Sixth Floor Museum, is accompanied with the explanation that this letter was written shortly after the assassination.
The letter doesn't prove he wasn't there, obviously, but it is strong circumstantial evidence that Arnold wasn't there that day and nothing more than that.
I don't see how. For it to be so, then some things have to be assumed without evidence.
- That the letter was indeed written shortly after the assassination
- That Gordon hadn't previously discussed the events of the day with his wife in an earlier letter or phone call
- that not enough time had elapsed for him to have gotten to Seattle before writing the letter
One weird thing is that I know the World's Fair was in NYC in 1963. But I looked it up, and there was a "Century 21 Exposition" (also known as the Seattle World's Fair). The problem is that it took place between April 21 and October 21, 1962.
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I don't see how. For it to be so, then some things have to be assumed without evidence.
- That the letter was indeed written shortly after the assassination
- That Gordon hadn't previously discussed the events of the day with his wife in an earlier letter or phone call
- that not enough time had elapsed for him to have gotten to Seattle before writing the letter
One weird thing is that I know the World's Fair was in NYC in 1963. But I looked it up, and there was a "Century 21 Exposition" (also known as the Seattle World's Fair). The problem is that it took place between April 21 and October 21, 1962.
I thought circumstantial evidence was "assumed evidence".
I'm assuming the letter is indeed from Gordon Arnold and that it was written by him. I'm assuming the letter isn't a forgery. I'm assuming the site I saw it on isn't fake.
I'm assuming the Sixth Floor Museum knew what it was talking about about.
I'm assuming a really large amount of things, there can't be any denying that.
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Is that person standing on the bench that the young black couple were sitting on? The couple who threw down the soda bottle.
That's where Leroy Blevins Sr proposed that the shooter was - just inside the pergola behind Zapruder firing from the 3rd 'window'.
But that window is high and it needed somebody to lift the shooter possibly?
It would account for Zapruder saying the shot came over his shoulder.
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That's where Leroy Blevins Sr proposed that the shooter was - just inside the pergola behind Zapruder firing from the 3rd 'window'.
But that window is high and it needed somebody to lift the shooter possibly?
It would account for Zapruder saying the shot came over his shoulder.
Zapruder never says the shot came from over his shoulder. He assumes the shot came from behind him because that's where the police seem to rush to after the shooting.
Marylin Sitzman, stood next to Zapruder, describes the shots as being quiet and coming from the direction of the TSBD building.
Neither of them support a shot being heard directly behind them and the idea that the assassin is being held up by someone else is like something out of a Marx Brothers routine.
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I find it difficult to respect a guy that hid his getting an extra $125K for his film and then presented the facade that he gave ALL the money he received for the film to the Tippit Family. That's BS:
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Yeah it is a bit fantastical.
I've tried to get Google Earth to get me in the same position and see what the view was like from the 2nd window up with no luck yet.