JFK Assassination Forum

JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Gerry Down on June 10, 2021, 04:42:09 AM

Title: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 10, 2021, 04:42:09 AM
The TSBD seems to memorialize a white killer (Oswald). Perhaps it is time the TSBD be demolished and replaced with a statue of George Floyd in honor of JFKs fight for civil rights. Also, Dealey Plaza (named after a rich white man - Mr. Dealey) should be renamed Black Lives Matter Plaza.

What do people think?
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 10, 2021, 05:12:12 AM
Better yet, return all the land stolen/swindled from Mexico and Native Americans.

The indians don't count. There are more black votes than indian votes come election time.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on June 10, 2021, 12:57:24 PM
The TSBD seems to memorialize a white killer (Oswald). Perhaps it is time the TSBD be demolished and replaced with a statue of George Floyd in honor of JFKs fight for civil rights. Also, Dealey Plaza (named after a rich white man - Mr. Dealey) should be renamed Black Lives Matter Plaza.

What do people think?

How about a statue of Leon Trotsky?
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 10, 2021, 06:23:21 PM
The democrats think they control black people. Remember "if you don't vote for me you ain't black". People should be trying to stamp out racism for the right reasons and not just so they can get votes. Black people deserve proper respect not fake respect.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Bill Chapman on June 11, 2021, 02:59:46 AM
The indians don't count. There are more black votes than indian votes come election time.

'indians' aboriginals
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Bill Chapman on June 11, 2021, 04:05:13 AM
Re TSBD demolition question

'Wrecking Ball'  Miley Cyrus/Howard Stern
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 11, 2021, 10:54:37 AM
Re TSBD demolition question

Doesn't look like too many people are in favor of demolishing the TSBD and having it replaced with a statue of George Floyd.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 11, 2021, 03:13:49 PM
How about a statue of Leon Trotsky?

Good point. A statue of Leon Trotsky would make a nice touch.

We could just paint the TSBD black if people were concerned about demolishing a historical building of international significance.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Charles Collins on June 12, 2021, 02:46:18 AM
The TSBD seems to memorialize a white killer (Oswald). Perhaps it is time the TSBD be demolished and replaced with a statue of George Floyd in honor of JFKs fight for civil rights. Also, Dealey Plaza (named after a rich white man - Mr. Dealey) should be renamed Black Lives Matter Plaza.

What do people think?


What do people think?


The idea to preserve that building was an unpopular one in Dallas one when the preservation effort began many years ago. Many of the folks would have rather had it demolished because it reminds them of a very unpleasant event that happened in their city that they would have preferred to forget about.

If those folks had gotten their way, we would be much poorer because the Sixth Floor Museum would not exist in its current incarnation, if at all. And Dealey Plaza would forever be changed. People of all ages would not have a place to go to in order to see firsthand the same location where the tragedy took place or learn some of the details of the event at that location (where they stand the best chance for a more accurate understanding of the circumstances).

This is one example of why we should preserve our historically important structures. Some of these are bound to be distasteful to some people. But as unpleasant as they might be, it is important that we learn from them. Another example would be the memorial to the victims of the horrors of 9/11 that is located where the foundation for the WTC building used to be. Also, the memorial of the Arizona in Pearl Harbor. We should never forget.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Mike Orr on June 12, 2021, 05:40:27 PM
Some of you just hit a new low .
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 13, 2021, 02:17:05 AM
The democrats think they control black people. Remember "if you don't vote for me you ain't black". People should be trying to stamp out racism for the right reasons and not just so they can get votes. Black people deserve proper respect not fake respect.

 :D

Well, the racist right wing Republicans have zero respect for African Americans bringing back the Jim Crow days by taking away their right to vote.

   
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on June 13, 2021, 11:45:46 AM
Good point. A statue of Leon Trotsky would make a nice touch.

We could just paint the TSBD black if people were concerned about demolishing a historical building of international significance.

OK........ how about a Pushkin statue?  He was associated with books, right?  TSBD?
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Sean Kneringer on June 13, 2021, 10:37:46 PM
Turning it into a "Victims of Communism" museum would be much more fitting.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 14, 2021, 04:15:34 PM
In the years before it became a museum, I recall there was some discussion of tearing down the building.  It was a painful reminder to many of the locals of the assassination and cast a cloud on Dallas for many years.  There were also some concern that the TSBD would become a sort of monument to Oswald.  I'm all for preserving history, though.  The good, bad, and ugly.  It's also a big tourist destination in Dallas meaning that it brings in money.  So the building is safe for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Frederick Clements on June 14, 2021, 05:47:24 PM

 No. It is a historically significant building and it should remain.


  Fred
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Charles Collins on June 14, 2021, 10:29:25 PM
Dallas has a Martyrs Park (dedicated to an 1860 triple lynching that occurred there) on park land directly east of the Grassy Knoll, beginning on the west side of the Underpass bridge.

(https://dmn-dallas-news-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/MWwvpenulYHNKQ4pMLy_y0jSdgA=/1660x0/smart/filters:no_upscale()/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-dmn.s3.amazonaws.com/public/ZZ3XL3WVGNBDHGSNZI3MZEPLTA.jpg)

The park has no monuments or signage about the event, the site itself is quite neglected, and having the land declared a city park to memorialize the lynching was a thee-year battle. Dallas "liberals" (or they could be Republicans who after-all are the "least racist", right?) would like to see the park incorporated into Dealey Plaza with a large area closed to traffic. Presumably signage would draw folks from the Plaza to the park and a proposed Memorial for Victims of Racial Violence. JFK's contribution to Civil Rights might be presented.

"The History of Hangings and Lynchings in Dallas County" ( link (https://www.smudailycampus.com/news/the-history-of-hangings-and-lynchings-in-dallas-county) )


Wow! That is ummm, I am at a loss for words...   :-X
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 14, 2021, 11:12:21 PM
Dallas has a Martyrs Park (dedicated to an 1860 triple lynching that occurred there) on park land directly west of the Grassy Knoll, beginning on the west side of the Underpass bridge.

(https://dmn-dallas-news-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/MWwvpenulYHNKQ4pMLy_y0jSdgA=/1660x0/smart/filters:no_upscale()/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-dmn.s3.amazonaws.com/public/ZZ3XL3WVGNBDHGSNZI3MZEPLTA.jpg)

The park has no monuments or signage about the event, the site itself is quite neglected, and having the land declared a city park to memorialize the lynching was a thee-year battle. Dallas "liberals" (or they could be Republicans who after-all are the "least racist", right?) would like to see the park incorporated into Dealey Plaza with a large area closed to traffic. Presumably signage would draw folks from the Plaza to the park and a proposed Memorial for Victims of Racial Violence. JFK's contribution to Civil Rights might be presented.

"The History of Hangings and Lynchings in Dallas County" ( link (https://www.smudailycampus.com/news/the-history-of-hangings-and-lynchings-in-dallas-county) )

JFK made no "contribution to Civil Rights."  So I don't see any connection.  JFK was concerned with the Civil Rights movement only to the extent that it put him in an embarrassing position to defend American racial policies of the time with foreign leaders.  LBJ would be a much better choice since he was from Texas and actually did something other than take a good picture.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 14, 2021, 11:53:27 PM
Prior to assassinating Martin Luther King and Senator Kennedy, KGB officers inside the CIA used the long tentacles of the CIA to foment racial strife as they strove toward their vision of a race war in the 1960s. They promoted vehement opposition to civil rights and integration in Southern Democratic states, and they easily stirred up violence within African American communities.

Summers of violence followed the advent of growth in the civil rights movement in the early 1960s, largely because KGB officers saw racial strife and polarization of society as a means of inciting the masses in the United States. They were behind much of the violence targeting African Americans, including a Ku Klux Klan church bombing that killed four African American schoolgirls in Birmingham, Alabama, in September 1963, and they undoubtedly had inroads with African American militants who would stir up violence and anger within the African American community.

As noted in Chapter 1, “certain corrupt elements” of the CIA were focused on inciting “racial” unrest in the United States, and as such, the CIA’s Operation CHAOS joined with the Domestic Operations Division when it gathered intelligence on “United States Black Militants,” intelligence that would facilitate KGB efforts to promote racial violence.

The Rockefeller Commission, which focused only on CIA Activities Within the United States, stated, “In 1963 and 1964, civil rights disturbances occurred in Birmingham, Savannah, Cambridge (Maryland), Chicago, and Philadelphia. Early in 1965, serious disorder took place in Selma, Alabama, and in August of 1965 the Watts section of Los Angeles became the scene of massive rioting and destruction. By 1966, news coverage of domestic turmoil had almost become a part of everyday life in the United States . . . . Although severe racial rioting had occurred in United States cities in previous summers, it had never been as widespread or as intense as it became in 1967.” 

The information on “massive rioting and destruction” and “severe racial rioting” was in the report of the Commission on CIA Activities Within the United States because the CIA was behind it all. Otherwise, the information would not be in the Commission’s report

In the “hardest hit” cities of Newark and Detroit, “conditions of near-insurrection developed in ghetto areas.”

The Commission on “CIA Activities Within the United States” also reported that the 1967 riots were “the worst racial disturbances in the history of the United States.”

Two African American militants, Stokely Carmichael and H. Rap Brown, “called for ‘guerilla warfare’ in urban ghettos.”

The fact that Stokely Carmichael and H. Rap Brown are mentioned in the report of the Commission on “CIA Activities Within the United States” means they were both CIA assets, or more specifically, KGB assets.

On August 6, 1967, KGB asset H. Rap Brown “told a rally in New York that the summer’s racial riots were ‘only dress rehearsals for revolution,’”  which clearly means the KGB’s “revolution” was supposed to take place in 1968.

The Commission, which desperately tried to downplay the CIA’s domestic operations, admitted it was “activities of the Central Intelligence Agency” that caused the Commission to address “political unrest, disturbances, disorder, and violence in the United States.”

It claimed that the CIA “activities” took place only during “the late 1960s and early 1970s,”  even though the Commission on “CIA Activities Within the United States” was specifically addressing profound racial disturbances from 1963 through 1968 and the CIA had been running rampant inside the United States since the early 1950s.

KGB officers inside the CIA looked forward to the years of “rioting” and “destruction” culminating in a race war in 1968. Toward that end, as noted earlier, they assassinated Martin Luther King on April 4, 1968, and they assassinated Senator Robert F. Kennedy on June 5, 1968.

One day after they assassinated Martin Luther King, African American militant and KGB asset Stokely Carmichael proclaimed, “We Negroes must arm ourselves with rifles and pistols and launch an assault on the streets of the cities of the United States in reprisal for King’s assassination.”

The Rockefeller Commission, which, again, focused only on CIA Activities Within the United States, stated that by the “middle of July, serious racial disorders had occurred in 211 cities.”

In their quest to control the government, the CIA clearly instigated and coordinated rioting across the United States from 1963 to 1968. Renegade CIA officers bent on carrying out the KGB-initiated quest to control the government undoubtedly instigated and coordinated the rioting that took place across the United States in 2020.

The KGB officers failed to realize their “race war” in 1968, and they exhausted all efforts along those lines by killing the two most prominent civil rights leaders of the day.

They did, however, leave a sociologically segregated society in the wake of their efforts. With substantial influence across the political spectrum and with years of terrorist acts culminating in the assassinations of Martin Luther King and Robert F. Kennedy, the KGB officers clearly had a hand in putting an end to integration in the United States.

It’s all in my book. Click the link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Anthony Frank on June 15, 2021, 12:09:11 AM
The main reason for the sociologically segregated society is President Lyndon Johnson’s “War on Integration,” which Johnson deceptively called a “War on Poverty.”

Johnson was a Southern Democrat who, like all Southern Democrats, hated President Kennedy and his policies, but he knew that he would alienate Kennedy voters if he did not sign the 1964 Civil Rights Act, President Kennedy’s landmark civil rights legislation.

Back in 1947, when President Truman pushed Congress to pass civil rights legislation, Johnson, a member of the House of Representatives, called it “a farce and a sham — an effort to set up a police state in the guise of liberty.’”

Johnson’s “mentor”  during his twelve years in the Senate was Senator Richard Russell, who led the Senate filibuster of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, stating on March 30, 1964, “We will resist to the bitter end any measure or any movement which would have a tendency to bring about social equality and intermingling and amalgamation of the races in our states.”

Lyndon Johnson and Richard Russell were “very, very close friends” in a relationship that started out with Johnson as “the student” and Russell as “the teacher.”

Vice President Johnson hosted a dinner “in Senator Russell’s honor” while Kennedy was President, and Johnson “told the assembled gathering that if he were able to personally choose the President of the United States, he would select Richard Russell.”

The “Southern Bloc” of Senators that filibustered the 1964 Civil Rights Act was comprised of Lyndon Johnson’s buddies from his twelve years in the Senate.

Johnson, however, had a plan to stop integration dead in its tracks and keep Southern Democrats happy.

Johnson knew that the civil rights legislation he was compelled to sign would give people of African descent the ability to fully integrate themselves into society with absolutely no restrictions.

He also knew that giving money to people in poverty would tend to remove their incentive to participate in the free market economy, where any man or woman can rise to the level of his or her ability. So, Johnson launched his “War on Integration” and called it a “War on Poverty” in order to hide his true intentions.

President Johnson’s basic premise was: “Give money to people in poverty and they won’t integrate themselves into society.”

Segregation, which was the law of the land in Southern Democratic states a few years earlier, became more and more of a sociological norm as demagoguery took root, African Americans were exploited, and identifying with one’s skin color became a basis for gravitating towards segregation. It was the same demagoguery used by segregationists in the early 1960s as they called for separate but equal.

Gone were the exhortations that African Americans become integral parts of society, judged only on the content of their character and not the color of their skin. In due time, a nation with a large percentage of segregated African Americans was told that, for the most part, black people are victims who cannot succeed without government help.

It’s all in my book. Click the link.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V9JT65Y
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 15, 2021, 01:11:23 AM
Why are so you bitter and misinformed?

What became the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was first proposed by Kennedy in his "Report to the American People on Civil Rights" in June 1963. Which led to this famous meeting in the White House on August 28th.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/Civil_rights_leaders_meet_with_President_John_F._Kennedy2.jpg/640px-Civil_rights_leaders_meet_with_President_John_F._Kennedy2.jpg)

Kennedy would not include certain of their proposals, including police brutality against blacks (seems a forewarning now). Then came the assassination and Johnson's plea before a joint session of Congress:
(https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He/view?usp=sharing)
    "No memorial oration or eulogy could more eloquently honor
     President Kennedy's memory than the earliest possible
     passage of the civil rights bill for which he fought so long."

The Southern states held out until the summer of '64 (Senator Yarborough the only Southern Senator voting for the bill; the lone Republican Senator John Tower voted against it). Johnson said "I know the risks are great and we might lose the South, but those sorts of states may be lost anyway." The Democrats drew a moral line in the sand that year and the Republicans began taking over the South with demagoguery and racist dog whistles.

Barry Goldwater, who was the Republican Presidential candidate that fall, voted against the bill, saying "You can't legislate morality."

BTW, the Johnsons took a pretty good picture too.
(https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He/view?usp=sharing)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/The_Johnsons_in_the_Oval_Office.jpg/640px-The_Johnsons_in_the_Oval_Office.jpg)

After Ike, the Republicans didn't get anyone photogenic until the wax figure Ronald Reagan. Sara Palin was smokin' hot.

Richard is misinformed because he listens to right wing propaganda. He viciously attacks every Democratic President while distorting their record and posts deliberate misinformation. He worships his orange messiah while giving him fake praise like the rest of the sheep. He's bitter because his hero is out of office awaiting indictment.       

The Day J.F.K. Set the Civil Rights Act in Motion
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1963/06/22/The-Day-JFK-Set-the-Civil-Rights-Act-in-Motion
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 15, 2021, 03:44:38 PM
Richard is misinformed because he listens to right wing propaganda. He viciously attacks every Democratic President while distorting their record and posts deliberate misinformation. He worships his orange messiah while giving him fake praise like the rest of the sheep. He's bitter because his hero is out of office awaiting indictment.       

The Day J.F.K. Set the Civil Rights Act in Motion
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1963/06/22/The-Day-JFK-Set-the-Civil-Rights-Act-in-Motion

LOL. Wasn't LBJ a "Democratic President"?  I suggested that he rather than do nothing JFK would be better recognized for his work with Civil Rights since the latter did nothing and LBJ actually did.  And talk about propaganda.   You have posted thousands or perhaps tens of thousands of posts that are simply cut and paste jobs that contain anti-Trump conspiracy theories and debunked falsehoods.  Unreal.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 15, 2021, 03:53:31 PM
Why are so you bitter and misinformed?

What became the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was first proposed by Kennedy in his "Report to the American People on Civil Rights" in June 1963. Which led to this famous meeting in the White House on August 28th.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/Civil_rights_leaders_meet_with_President_John_F._Kennedy2.jpg/640px-Civil_rights_leaders_meet_with_President_John_F._Kennedy2.jpg)

Kennedy would not include certain of their proposals, including police brutality against blacks (seems a forewarning now). Then came the assassination and Johnson's plea before a joint session of Congress:
(https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He/view?usp=sharing)
    "No memorial oration or eulogy could more eloquently honor
     President Kennedy's memory than the earliest possible
     passage of the civil rights bill for which he fought so long."

The Southern states held out until the summer of '64 (Senator Yarborough the only Southern Senator voting for the bill; the lone Republican Senator John Tower voted against it). Johnson said "I know the risks are great and we might lose the South, but those sorts of states may be lost anyway." The Democrats drew a moral line in the sand that year and the Republicans began taking over the South with demagoguery and racist dog whistles.

Barry Goldwater, who was the Republican Presidential candidate that fall, voted against the bill, saying "You can't legislate morality."

BTW, the Johnsons took a pretty good picture too.
(https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He/view?usp=sharing)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/The_Johnsons_in_the_Oval_Office.jpg/640px-The_Johnsons_in_the_Oval_Office.jpg)

After Ike, the Republicans didn't get anyone photogenic until the wax figure Ronald Reagan. Sara Palin was smokin' hot.

The key word here is "proposed" which means JFK actually got nothing done.  The litany of excuses doesn't change that.  LBJ was the person who actually achieved something with Civil Rights.  If anyone is to be recognized for that, then LBJ is clearly the person to do so.  And trying to place the blame for the lack of progress on "racist" Republicans is revisionist history.  A small group of Dem Senators held up any Civil Rights legislation for decades.  It took LBJ to break up that resistance by democrats.     
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on June 15, 2021, 09:15:00 PM
quite by LBJ

"No memorial oration or eulogy could more eloquently honour President Kennedy's memory than the earliest possible passage of the civil  rights bill for which he fought for so long"

Seems `JFK didn'tget the chance to get the bill through, Richard, despite him fighting for so long.



Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 16, 2021, 04:10:59 PM
So, Kennedy had nothing to do with the Moon Shot?

Boy, are you ever radicalized by Fox News or Breitbart, or whatever it is.

I don't remember you crediting the "get it done" folks when Trump rode into 2017 on the economic wave started by Obama/Biden. And how about Trump now taking credit for the dung-heap he bequeathed Old Joe?

Why is "racist" in quotes? Is this gaslighting? :D

Because they were re-elected so often in safe states, the Southern Democrats gained a disproportionate amount of seniority and so chaired or were ranking members of most committees in Congress. They knew each other personally and could hold up legislation for awhile. Remind you of what's going on in the Senate with Old Mitch, Lindsay (South Carolina), Cruz, Jim Jordan's misnomed Freedom Caucus and the rest of the Trump Republican bloc?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/117th_United_States_Congress_Senators.svg/320px-117th_United_States_Congress_Senators.svg.png)
(https://images2.imgbox.com/b4/05/7jnrAvfV_o.gif)
Map showing current US Senators. Georgia the beachhead.

I'm not following this.  You believe that Fox News radicalized me to promote LBJ as an icon of Civil Rights?  Unreal.  I must have missed that segment on Hannity.  I'm not sure why you constantly claim that republicans are racist.  It is offensive and untrue no matter how many times you repeat that woke talking point.  Whatever woke agenda you have with current politics, this discussion relates to the 1960s.  It was your Dems who held up Civil Rights legislation for decades.  That is simply a fact.  Trying to spin it any other way or deflect with fake CNN talking points is revisionist history.  If there is any racist in power, it is Trudeau and his blackface antics.  You are from Canada.  Why are you so obsessed with calling Americans racist while having a racist prime minister?
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Larry Baldwin on June 16, 2021, 07:39:44 PM
An interesting little easter egg that I discovered today on Google Maps street view of Dealey Plaza.  Has anyone else discovered that if you click on the 6th floor window that Google street view takes you into the building at the window?  It is a shame that they didn't open up the view out the window, but kind of clever none the less.

Incidentally, if this is old news, no need to chide and ridicule because I just discovered it.  I haven't been on this site regularly in years.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 16, 2021, 09:53:52 PM


Youthful antics, like Megyn Kelly's memories of Halloween. So, if a Republican politician wore blackface or posted nasty texts in his youth, you would likewise say it defined him?

Youthful antics?  Trudeau was almost 30 when he did this.  Wow that's a lame defense from someone who is so concerned with racism. It makes me wonder if it is politics rather than racism that dictates your opinions.  Trudeau is a spoiled, elitist racist of the first order.  He wore blackface on more than one occasion.  Imagine the hue and cry if Trump had done that?  But that's fine because Trudeau is a liberal woke.  Nothing to see there.  Canadians need to concern themselves with America instead of their own racist guy.  BTW.  How many African-Americans are leaving "racist" America for your socialist utopia?  What percentage of the Canadian population is black?  Do they call it the Great White North for a reason?  Maybe ask Trudeau when he finishes singing "Ol' Man River" at his next frat party. 
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on June 16, 2021, 11:55:31 PM
The key word here is "proposed" which means JFK actually got nothing done.  The litany of excuses doesn't change that.  LBJ was the person who actually achieved something with Civil Rights.  If anyone is to be recognized for that, then LBJ is clearly the person to do so.  And trying to place the blame for the lack of progress on "racist" Republicans is revisionist history.  A small group of Dem Senators held up any Civil Rights legislation for decades.  It took LBJ to break up that resistance by democrats.     
Shortly after the assassination (11/25/63), LBJ phoned Dr. King to inform him of the status of the civil rights bill and some of the other legislation that had stalled in Congress. The civil rights proposal was still in the House at that time and Congress was preparing to adjourn for the holidays. Nothing more was going to be accomplished for that session. The bill was dead at that time.

JFK meant well but he had little ability - or much interest at that time (note that he never mentioned the bill during his trip to Texas) - in really pushing the act through Congress. Thus the situation at the time of his death. With 1964 being an election year - when in normal times Congress essentially does nothing - there was no chance of the bill getting through.  And JFK, I would suggest, was simply not going to risk a potential loss of the South for that bill at that time. It was too risky. Domestically, JFK was a a pragmatist, a centrist and not a liberal; he showed that during his time in the Senate.

It would take JFK's death and LBJ's arm twisting (and more) to get the act through Congress. These claims that JFK gets credit for the bill are simply not historically accurate. LBJ himself ran in favor of the bill when he ran against JFK for the party's nomination. Note as well the risk that LBJ took. He would run for election in 1964 while aggressively pushing for the bill. Despite the strong possibility of losing the South and the presidency. The claim that he was behind the assassination is even more absurd when you realize what he did: he became president after killing JFK (allegedly) and then he risks all of that on the civil rights bill? It's absurd.

Recall that in LBJ's address to Congress and the nation after the assassination he said the "first thing" that had to be done to recognize JFK's legacy was pass the civil rights bill. As he told King in his call, "We just won’t give up an inch." LBJ is a difficult person to defend, to praise; he was a mean, nasty man and the horrors of Vietnam - and the lies and failures - define his presidency. But his accomplishments on behalf of racial justice cannot be challenged.

From the LBJ/King call:
MLK:  --because we know what a difficult period this is.  [Inaudible]

LBJ:  It’s just an impossible period.  We’ve got a budget coming up that’s—we’ve got nothing to do with it; it’s practically already made.  And we’ve got a civil rights bill that hadn’t even passed the House, and it’s November, and Hubert Humphrey told me yesterday everybody wanted to go home.  We’ve got a tax bill that they haven’t touched.  We just got to let up—not let up on any of them and keep going and-- 

MLK:  Yes.

LBJ:  --I guess they’ll say that I’m repudiated.  But I’m going to ask the Congress Wednesday to just stay there until they pass them all.  They won’t do it.  But we’ll just keep them there next year until they do, and we just won’t give up an inch.

MLK:  Uh-uh.  Well this is mighty fine.  I think it’s so imperative.  I think one of the great tributes that we can pay in memory of President Kennedy is to try to enact some of the great, progressive policies that he sought to initiate.

LBJ:  Well, I’m going to support them all, and you can count on that.  And I’m going to do my best to get other men to do likewise, and I’ll have to have y’all’s help.

http://www.lbjlibrary.org/lyndon-baines-johnson/timeline/a-conversation-between-lbj-and-martin-luther-king-jr/
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 17, 2021, 01:09:34 AM
LOL. Wasn't LBJ a "Democratic President"?  I suggested that he rather than do nothing JFK would be better recognized for his work with Civil Rights since the latter did nothing and LBJ actually did.  And talk about propaganda.   You have posted thousands or perhaps tens of thousands of posts that are simply cut and paste jobs that contain anti-Trump conspiracy theories and debunked falsehoods.  Unreal.

Nice try Richard.  :D :D :D

There are no "falsehoods". You can't even name one falsehood that you ridiculously claim. Everything that I've stated was 100% accurate including articles that I've posted.

Criminal Donald lost the election and I was 100% correct when I said he would lose since 2019. I also stated he will be indicted and that will happen soon. 

Every single Trump crime and scandal that I've posted is now being criminally investigated by the authorities. Everything  was accurate. And now it turns out Criminal Donald was spying on reporters and members of Congress.   

Everything you rant about is bogus made up right wing propaganda.       
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 17, 2021, 09:04:04 PM
Trudeau (who's half-Scottish, half-French-Canadian) was 29 when he dressed as "Aladdin" (ie: not African-American) at an "Arabian Nights" dinner at the college where he taught. Pretty far from "Amos 'n' Andy". What's important is that he apologized and did not appoint racists or backwards-thinkers when he got into power.

(https://static.dw.com/image/18829018_303.jpg)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
Trudeau's Cabinet
 
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-administration-appointee-tracker/img/appointee-tracker-promo-v3.jpg)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
Trump's Cabinet

Yes, America is much more a utopia for minorities, ethnics and refugees.

Sure. Continue to ignore your own party's role in perpetuating racism.

Seems so remote and abstract now, but it was only in 2005 that Ken Mehlman, the RNC chairman, apologized to the NAACP for his party's "racial polarization". The GOP was talking stock and acknowledging its history. John McCain famously corrected a Republican bigot over Obama's religion. But McCain lost, most thought Palin exemplified the party better, and they veered right with Romney (a Trump "pick"). It became a slippery slope which led to January 6.

Jerry you are a good guy.  I actually like you despite your politics.  But it is a falsehood to suggest that Trudeau didn't dress in blackface.  There is a video of of him in blackface with an afro sticking his tongue out.  Trudeau has admitted that he did so.  Why not condemn this and ask for him to resign if racism instead of political affiliation is the determinative factor? 

Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 17, 2021, 09:08:21 PM
Nice try Richard.  :D :D :D

There are no "falsehoods". You can't even name one falsehood that you ridiculously claim. Everything that I've stated was 100% accurate including articles that I've posted.



Name one?  How about this:  "Richard is misinformed because he listens to right wing propaganda. He viciously attacks every Democratic President while distorting their record and posts deliberate misinformation."  Remarkably you made this claim in response to my praise of LBJ (a "Democratic President" last time I checked) in advancing Civil Rights.  It is therefore demonstrably false. 
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 17, 2021, 11:29:59 PM
Name one?  How about this:  "Richard is misinformed because he listens to right wing propaganda. He viciously attacks every Democratic President while distorting their record and posts deliberate misinformation."  Remarkably you made this claim in response to my praise of LBJ (a "Democratic President" last time I checked) in advancing Civil Rights.  It is therefore demonstrably false.

No it isn't false. You made up bogus propaganda against President John F. Kennedy and President Joe Biden. That is a fact. 
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 18, 2021, 02:52:10 AM
No it isn't false. You made up bogus propaganda against President John F. Kennedy and President Joe Biden. That is a fact.

Ugh.  Again, while I was praising LBJ you posted this:  "He viciously attacks every Democratic President'.  Unreal.  And you take issue with me criticizing JFK while you defend Oswald who murdered him?  That is tin foil hat stuff. 
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 18, 2021, 04:58:54 AM
Ugh.  Again, while I was praising LBJ you posted this:  "He viciously attacks every Democratic President'.  Unreal.  And you take issue with me criticizing JFK while you defend Oswald who murdered him?  That is tin foil hat stuff.

 :D :D :D

You gave a lukewarm response about LBJ.

Where am I defending Oswald?

Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 18, 2021, 05:09:01 AM
Youthful antics?  Trudeau was almost 30 when he did this.  Wow that's a lame defense from someone who is so concerned with racism. It makes me wonder if it is politics rather than racism that dictates your opinions.  Trudeau is a spoiled, elitist racist of the first order.  He wore blackface on more than one occasion.  Imagine the hue and cry if Trump had done that?  But that's fine because Trudeau is a liberal woke.  Nothing to see there.  Canadians need to concern themselves with America instead of their own racist guy.  BTW.  How many African-Americans are leaving "racist" America for your socialist utopia?  What percentage of the Canadian population is black?  Do they call it the Great White North for a reason?  Maybe ask Trudeau when he finishes singing "Ol' Man River" at his next frat party.

Jerry you are a good guy.  I actually like you despite your politics.  But it is a falsehood to suggest that Trudeau didn't dress in blackface.  There is a video of of him in blackface with an afro sticking his tongue out.  Trudeau has admitted that he did so.  Why not condemn this and ask for him to resign if racism instead of political affiliation is the determinative factor? 


 :D :D :D

So, you want to dig up an incident from 20 years ago when Trudeau wasn't even a leader, wanting him to resign now, but say nothing when your current GOP officials are being racist at this very minute. Pathetic!   
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on June 18, 2021, 12:40:41 PM
Ugh.  Again, while I was praising LBJ you posted this:  "He viciously attacks every Democratic President'.  Unreal.  And you take issue with me criticizing JFK while you defend Oswald who murdered him?  That is tin foil hat stuff.
You missed out an important word in your reply to Rick's post, Richard.

"And you take issue with me criticising JFK while you defended  Owald  who "ALLEGEDLY"  murdered him."


Just to remind you, Oswald  was never tried for the crime,  no matter what you say.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Vincent Baxter on June 19, 2021, 03:06:17 PM
I think it's just such a ridiculous concept that people aren't even bothering to entertain the idea.

You're suggesting demolishing a huge 8 floor building in Dallas which takes up approximately 80,000 feet of floor area and replacing it with a single statue of a man who was murdered 1000 miles away. I just don't see the link or the argument behind it. What are you hoping this will achieve?

I don't get the logic of destroying something so strongly linked with the assassination of JFK in order to replace it with a memorial of the George Floyd murder that happened well over half a decade century later. What's the link between the two? Just because JFK campaigned for civil rights?

Abraham Lincoln called for the abolishment of slavery so would you also suggest demolishing Ford Theatre and replacing that with a statue of George Floyd too?

Ridiculous concept. Erect a statue of George Floyd if you feel the need by all means, but to destroy such a significant part of American history to do so when there are millions of other locations to put it is just absurd.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 19, 2021, 03:20:38 PM
I think it's just such a ridiculous concept that people aren't even bothering to entertain the idea.

You're suggesting demolishing a huge 8 floor building in Dallas which takes up approximately 80,000 feet of floor area and replacing it with a single statue of a man who was murdered 1000 miles away. I just don't see the link or the logic behind it. What are you hoping this will achieve?

I don't get the logic of destroying something so strongly linked with the assassination of JFK in order to replace it with a memorial of the George Floyd murder that happened well over half a decade later. What's the link between the two? Just because JFK campaigned for civil rights?

Abraham Lincoln called for the abolishment of slavery so would you also suggest demolishing Ford Theatre and replacing that with a statue of George Floyd too?

Ridiculous concept. Erect a statue of George Floyd if you feel the need by all means, but to destroy such a significant part of American history to do so when there are millions of other locations to put it is just absurd.

George Floyd died a half a decade after JFK?
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Vincent Baxter on June 19, 2021, 03:29:59 PM
George Floyd died a half a decade after JFK?

Hah! Was meant to put Century (though "Well over half a decade" is technically still true as well as it was indeed "well over" 5 years but you know what I meant). But other than that obvious typo, the rest of post still stands
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Bill Chapman on June 19, 2021, 03:38:51 PM
George Floyd died a half a decade after JFK?

FFS: He means half a century.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Bill Chapman on June 19, 2021, 03:43:52 PM
I think it's just such a ridiculous concept that people aren't even bothering to entertain the idea.

You're suggesting demolishing a huge 8 floor building in Dallas which takes up approximately 80,000 feet of floor area and replacing it with a single statue of a man who was murdered 1000 miles away. I just don't see the link or the argument behind it. What are you hoping this will achieve?

I don't get the logic of destroying something so strongly linked with the assassination of JFK in order to replace it with a memorial of the George Floyd murder that happened well over half a decade century later. What's the link between the two? Just because JFK campaigned for civil rights?

Abraham Lincoln called for the abolishment of slavery so would you also suggest demolishing Ford Theatre and replacing that with a statue of George Floyd too?

Ridiculous concept. Erect a statue of George Floyd if you feel the need by all means, but to destroy such a significant part of American history to do so when there are millions of other locations to put it is just absurd.

 Thumb1:
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 19, 2021, 03:45:46 PM
The first George Floyd statue is already here:
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on June 19, 2021, 03:51:51 PM
You missed out an important word in your reply to Rick's post, Richard.

"And you take issue with me criticising JFK while you defended  Owald  who "ALLEGEDLY"  murdered him."


Just to remind you, Oswald  was never tried for the crime,  no matter what you say.
Conspiracy believers - there are thousands of posts by them here and at the other conspiracy sites across the internet - regularly state that "LBJ killed Kennedy" or "Marina lied to the WC" or "Ruth Paine killed Oswald for the CIA" and on and on. Thousands and thousands of claims all of sorts of crimes by people who allegedly framed Oswald. For more than half a century.

Do you take exception to those claims even though they were never proven in court?

Besides, people make statements about historic figures committing crimes - Booth killed JFK Lincoln - that weren't proven in court. Everyone recognizes what is meant. The 9/11 hijackers were never convicted in court. Does that mean someone shouldn't say "Atta flew one of the planes into the tower"? Nixon was never convicted of a crime either. Nobody says Nixon didn't obstruct justice because he was never convicted of it. I won't use the silly Hitler example either.

Why you people have this bizarre need to protect Oswald's name while accusing others of worst crimes is one of the mysteries surrounding this event.

Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 19, 2021, 08:30:16 PM
As if this "Officer Tatum" idiot represents most black people.

Do I hear another "you ain't black" line coming on?
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 19, 2021, 08:36:05 PM
As if this "Officer Tatum" idiot represents most black people.

Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on June 19, 2021, 09:25:49 PM
Dallas has a Martyrs Park (dedicated to an 1860 triple lynching that occurred there) on park land directly west of the Grassy Knoll, beginning on the west side of the Underpass bridge.
I learned about this on this otherwise silly thread ::)
 I've lived in Dallas all my life and yet had never heard of this. That area though is accessible [AFAIK] only by walking through the underpass. I believe homeless people are camping on it...............

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7784539,-96.8103669,3a,60y,339.4h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8nUXBtiVLxRVdK5T9NqG9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

The key word here is "proposed" which means JFK actually got nothing done. 
Well Richard...I wonder if that is because he wound up getting snuffed before he could  :-\
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 20, 2021, 01:51:43 AM
:D :D :D

You gave a lukewarm response about LBJ.

Where am I defending Oswald?

Giving LBJ credit for Civil Rights advancement is a "lukewarm" response?  That seems pretty important to me.  And that is really your defense for suggesting that I viciously attacked "every Democratic President"?  And this from the same person who has cut and pasted thousands of outlandish, hate filled and often false anti-Trump posts.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 20, 2021, 01:56:14 AM
Where did I say Trudeau didn't use blackface? You focused on the incident when he was 29. I gave it context. The earlier episodes are what might be "youthful antics". He sang "Day-O" in the drama club in high school and the video was from the 90s when he was doing a summer job river-rafting. I wonder why the clip is so short; the photographers and others in blackface?

The images came out a month before the election. Trudeau lost the popular vote and his party held onto power with less than a full majority. Trudeau might have fared worst but his Conservative rival was caught on an alt-right website that sought to justifiy (a la Trump) the Charlottesville white-nationalists.

So now you're for cancel-culture. If Trudeau was not apologetic and did not made amends, and had ongoing indiscretions and insensitive remarks, you might have a point. Contrast the "bus tape" of a 59-year-old man still being a pig.

Take it up with the person who posted this:  "Trudeau (who's half-Scottish, half-French-Canadian) was 29 when he dressed as "Aladdin" (ie: not African-American) at an "Arabian Nights" dinner at the college where he taught. Pretty far from "Amos 'n' Andy".  This clearly suggests that Trudeau did not dress in blackface.  A falsehood.  Why you choose to focus just on this other incident is your own business but it implies a falsehood by ignoring the clear evidence that Trudeau did go "Amon 'n' Andy.'  It is a very dishonest respond.  Something more akin to a Rick Plant post. 
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 20, 2021, 01:58:10 AM

Well Richard...I wonder if that is because he wound up getting snuffed before he could  :-\

If you believe this, then that take it up with Oswald. 
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 20, 2021, 02:27:22 AM
Giving LBJ credit for Civil Rights advancement is a "lukewarm" response?  That seems pretty important to me.  And that is really your defense for suggesting that I viciously attacked "every Democratic President"?  And this from the same person who has cut and pasted thousands of outlandish, hate filled and often false anti-Trump posts.

Besides giving LBJ a lukewarm response, you have viciously attacked every Democratic President with outright lies and bogus right wing propaganda. 

Hilarious how you claim you to be for "civil rights" when you worship a racist Republican Party who are dismantling voter rights for African Americans all across America.   

There is nothing that I posted that was outlandish, false, or hate filled regarding Criminal Donald. You can't name one thing that was.   
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 20, 2021, 02:30:38 AM
So much hate on this forum.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 20, 2021, 02:36:18 AM
Besides giving LBJ a lukewarm response, you have viciously attacked every Democratic President with outright lies and bogus right wing propaganda. 

Hilarious how you claim you to be for "civil rights" when you worship a racist Republican Party who are dismantling voter rights for African Americans all across America.   

There is nothing that I posted that was outlandish, false, or hate filled regarding Criminal Donald. You can't name one thing that was.

Again, I'm not sure what is lukewarm about acknowledging LBJ's advancement of Civil Rights. Are you saying Civil Rights is not important?  Regardless, this criticism coming from the likes of yourself of all people is hilarious.  You have spent the last two years here spewing all manner of political hate and rage day after day after day like some maniac.  Mostly in the form of cutting and pasting fake conspiracy theories.  If you are concerned with "lukewarm" praise and attacks on political parties, then maybe look in the mirror.  You are the poster boy for that behavior. 
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 21, 2021, 03:48:02 AM
There was nothing inaccurate I wrote about the university gala. There was no African-American imitation or derogatory use of speech and mannerism. Maybe you agree with Trudeau that it was an example of White Privilege?

If color on the face is telling of a bigot, that explains Trump's never-ending orange glow. Trump has never show genuine contrition; he was 59 when he spoke like a pig on the "bus tape".

In this case, it may be you who's dishonest. You focused on the university incident. I referred to all the events, to which you replied "Youthful antics?  Trudeau was almost 30 when he did this."

If Canadians would have turned out Trudeau, they would be accused (mainly by Republicans) of "cancel culture". If we behave as reasonable adults and treat such indiscretions on a case-by-case basis, that's no good either. BTW, Trudeau was humbled by the experience and is a much better leader for it; he's empathetic and doesn't talk down to people.

Trump could have learned from his mistakes and grown in stature but he's a jerk. Trump has goons who went out and got all his embarrassing pictures and tapes. He didn't know about the "bus tape". Who knows what pictures and tapes the Manhattan District Attorney will find.

Richard, you're with the Verdict of History when you argue the Lone Assassin finding. When you parrot in the manner of Fox News and Breitbart, the Verdict of History is against you. It shows in how you post.

Good grief.  This is very simple.  Did Trudeau wear blackface or not?  It is a yes or no question that doesn't require reference to Trump or Fox News.  Whether Trudeau also wore "brown" face (which was also racist) doesn't somehow make the blackface incident go away.  Trudeau himself has admitted that he wore blackface.  There were multiple known incidence.  There is a video of him in blackface.  Here it is once again:

Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 21, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Even Kamala Harris called Joe a racist during the debates. The whole busing thing.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 21, 2021, 03:37:30 PM
Again, you haven't shown where I said Trudeau didn't wear blackface.

I said the "Aladdin Nights" wasn't on a par with "Amos 'n' Andy". Trudeau shouldn't have done it. The other incident was a drama club event where he wore blackface to sing "Day O". Nothing reported about "Amos 'n' Andy" mannerisms and speech. The rafting trip Trudeau wore blackface but the clip is suspiciously short and cropped, so we don't have the full context.

And yes, it's quite noticeable you are dodging the references as to where you are getting your information, be it Fox News and alt-right media. And seem to think it's OK for a 59-year-old man to be a pig on the "bus tape", and then become President (through the back door) and divide the country with his racist dog-whistles and coded taunts.
  • 1973 and 1978: Trump Management sued by the Department of Justice for housing discrimination against
         African-American renters. A DoJ lawyer claimed Trump said: "You know, you don't want to live with them either."
  • 2015: Retweets graphic claiming blacks responsible for most killings of whites (81% vs actual figure of 15%)
  • 2016: "They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
  • 2017: Calls Warren "Pocahontas", at White House event honoring Native American WWII veterans.
  • 2018: Meeting with Senators and House Members on legal immigration, Trump said words to the effect:
         "Why do we want all these people from 's--thole countries' coming here?"
  • Trump's judicial nominees: Top tier no blacks, Bottom tier 9 of 143 black
"Donald Trump’s Social Media Ties to White Supremacists" Fortune, March 22, 2016 ( Link (https://fortune.com/longform/donald-trump-white-supremacist-genocide/) )

"Why the Man Trump Once Called ‘My African American’ is Leaving the GOP" PBS NewsHour, September 12, 2019 ( Link (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/man-trump-once-called-my-african-american-leaves-republican-party) )
_____

Did Trudeau wear blackface or not?  It's not a trick question.  Nor does the answer to this question involve Trump.  But imagine if Trump were depicted in blackface acting like Trudeau in this video wearing an afro and sticking his tongue out.   Your defense to his conduct is that he sung "Day-O" but didn't act like Amos and Andy!  HA HA HA.  It's an obvious double standard.  Trudeau is the privileged liberal.  He can dress in blackface and brownface on multiple occasions and there is nothing to see.  But Trump is the racist.   Unbelievable hypocrisy.  It's clear that racism does not concern you.  You use racism only as a pretext to attack folks with a different political viewpoint.  The classic cancel culture.  You are a Canadian - right?  When you condemn Trudeau as a racist and ask that he resign in your role as a Canadian citizen then maybe get back to us on Trump.   
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 22, 2021, 04:22:30 AM
Again, I'm not sure what is lukewarm about acknowledging LBJ's advancement of Civil Rights. Are you saying Civil Rights is not important?  Regardless, this criticism coming from the likes of yourself of all people is hilarious.  You have spent the last two years here spewing all manner of political hate and rage day after day after day like some maniac.  Mostly in the form of cutting and pasting fake conspiracy theories.  If you are concerned with "lukewarm" praise and attacks on political parties, then maybe look in the mirror.  You are the poster boy for that behavior.

:D :D :D

Political hate? I've posted the truth and the facts which you didn't like to read. You chose to deny it for 2 years, while posting ridiculous conspiracy theories in rebuttal that you heard from the right wing media that was a complete farce.

Like I've said before, every single thing that I've posted has been 100% correct. Criminal Donald lost the election and all his crimes and corruption that I've talked about for 2 years is now being criminally investigated by the authorities which will result in indictment and then imprisonment.   

I am fighting for civil right for African Americans but you support a racist and extremist right wing Republican Party that is taking away civil and voter rights.

Once again, another poor attempt at gaslighting by Richard.   

P.S. you still haven't stated anything that I posted that you claim was "outlandish or incorrect" and you won't be able to. 
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 22, 2021, 04:36:48 AM
Did Trudeau wear blackface or not?  It's not a trick question.  Nor does the answer to this question involve Trump.  But imagine if Trump were depicted in blackface acting like Trudeau in this video wearing an afro and sticking his tongue out.   Your defense to his conduct is that he sung "Day-O" but didn't act like Amos and Andy!  HA HA HA.  It's an obvious double standard.  Trudeau is the privileged liberal.  He can dress in blackface and brownface on multiple occasions and there is nothing to see.  But Trump is the racist.   Unbelievable hypocrisy.  It's clear that racism does not concern you.  You use racism only as a pretext to attack folks with a different political viewpoint.  The classic cancel culture.  You are a Canadian - right?  When you condemn Trudeau as a racist and ask that he resign in your role as a Canadian citizen then maybe get back to us on Trump.

Hypocrites like Richard want to pretend to be "shocked and outraged" over what a man did one time decades ago demanding condemnation, but stays silent over what his racist heroes are currently doing in the present time. It's an absolute joke.

Did Prime Minister Trudeau implement racist polices or make racist comments as a leader like Criminal Donald did?

The answer is no.

Once again, another pathetic apples to oranges argument that went nowhere.   
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 22, 2021, 04:57:42 AM
Even Kamala Harris called Joe a racist during the debates. The whole busing thing.

Vice President Harris never called President Biden a "racist". She objected to the busing policy that was the law at the time and criticized Biden for it in which he later changed his stance on it.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 22, 2021, 05:04:43 AM
Vice President Harris never called President Biden a "racist". She objected to the busing policy that was the law at the time and criticized Biden for it in which he later changed his stance on it.

Oh you mean like how Trudeau later washed the blackface off and so that made up for having put it on in the first place. I see.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 22, 2021, 05:12:39 AM
Oh you mean like how Trudeau later washed the blackface off and so that made up for having put it on in the first place. I see.

I guess according to Gerry a Democrat is not allowed to change their mind on a policy matter.

Was Trudeau currently the Prime Minister when that happened? No.

Pathetic how people want to dig into a person's past attempting to condemn them for it now when it's no longer relevant because it happened decades ago.

Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 22, 2021, 05:43:16 AM
I don't mind what your stance is. But whatever it is it should be applied equally to a republican as you apply it to a democrat.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 22, 2021, 06:24:54 AM
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 22, 2021, 11:37:23 AM
I don't mind what your stance is. But whatever it is it should be applied equally to a republican as you apply it to a democrat.

Applied equally? Republicans are committing these offenses as current office holders and you want to dig into the past of a Democrat and condemn them for something they did 20, 30, 40 years ago? That's not "equal" that's an absolute joke.     
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 22, 2021, 12:07:31 PM
Applied equally? Republicans are committing these offenses as current office holders and you want to dig into the past of a Democrat and condemn them for something they did 20, 30, 40 years ago? That's not "equal" that's an absolute joke.     

Cuomo? Like I said the rules of attacking politicians, whatever they are, should be applied equally to all.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on June 22, 2021, 02:26:06 PM
Cancel the TSBD!!!
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 22, 2021, 03:03:20 PM
:D :D :D

Political hate? I've posted the truth and the facts which you didn't like to read. You chose to deny it for 2 years, while posting ridiculous conspiracy theories in rebuttal that you heard from the right wing media that was a complete farce.

Like I've said before, every single thing that I've posted has been 100% correct. Criminal Donald lost the election and all his crimes and corruption that I've talked about for 2 years is now being criminally investigated by the authorities which will result in indictment and then imprisonment.   

I am fighting for civil right for African Americans but you support a racist and extremist right wing Republican Party that is taking away civil and voter rights.

Once again, another poor attempt at gaslighting by Richard.   

P.S. you still haven't stated anything that I posted that you claim was "outlandish or incorrect" and you won't be able to.

Again, after I praised LBJ for his efforts with Civil Rights you bizarrely responded that I viciously attack "every Democratic President."  I assume that even you realize that LBJ was a "Democratic President."  Thus, a falsehood.  Just one of many.  Anyone can read your endless, hate-filled threads on Trump that contain all manner of debunked conspiracy theories and judge for themselves whether you are several fries short of a happy meal. 
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on June 22, 2021, 11:29:20 PM
Here's Robert Caro on LBJ/JFK and the civil rights bill.

"At the time President Kennedy is killed, that Civil Rights Bill is going nowhere. The Senate was always the great barrier to civil rights with its use of the filibuster. But the bill’s not even in the Senate. It’s not even on the House floor. The House Judiciary Committee has passed it, but they sent it to the Rules Committee, which is presided over by Judge Howard W. Smith of Virginia, the archest of segregationists. He won’t even tell anybody when he will start a hearing. At approximately the same time as the Kennedy motorcade is going through Dallas, John McCormick, the Speaker of the House, is asking Judge Smith, “What’s the schedule? When are you going to start hearings?” Smith is saying, “I don’t know.”

The Washington Post interviews Smith and asks, “What are your plans for the Civil Rights Bill?” He says, “No plans.” That bill is not getting out of the Rules Committee; it’s completely stuck."

Then this: "Three nights after Kennedy’s assassination, Johnson’s going to give his first speech to the joint houses of Congress. Johnson’s not even in the Oval Office yet; he’s still living at home. In the dining room, around his kitchen table, his advisors are drafting the speech. Johnson comes in, and they tell him, “Don’t emphasize civil rights. Don’t make that a priority. You’re going to alienate the Southern Democrats. It’s a lost cause, anyway. It’s a noble cause, but it’s a lost cause. Don’t waste your prestige immediately on it.” And Johnson says, “What the hell’s the presidency for, then?” He makes civil rights a centerpiece of his speech. He puts it in the context of Kennedy’s memory. “This is what he fought for. This is what he wanted.” Sympathy for Kennedy is not the whole story, but it’s a big part of the story of why that Civil Rights Bill gets passed."

So, the claim that LBJ was behind the assassination is made even more illogical by this act by LBJ, by this address to the nation. He is risking, seriously risking, his presidency and any chance of election with this speech and its call for passage of the civil rights bill. It risks alienating the South, a key Democrat voting block, and the chances of election (the Republican nominee was still to be determined). It makes no sense on any level that he would be the mover behind the assassination in order to attain the presidency AND then risk all of that with these actions shortly afterwards.

Finally, here is Caro on JFK:  "In those respects [the missile crisis, foreign affairs], Kennedy was among our greatest presidents. You also have to say that in domestic affairs, Kennedy was not effective. His legislative program and the ideals he articulated for Medicare, for tax reform, for civil rights weren’t going anywhere. Would they ever have gone anywhere? If he had a second term, would they have gotten passed? Perhaps, but there’s no sign of that. Both of his two big bills, the tax cut bill and the Civil Rights Bill, were absolutely stalled in Congress."

Full piece here: https://newrepublic.com/article/115477/robert-caro-lbj-jfk-assasination-and-me



Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 23, 2021, 01:17:12 AM
Again, after I praised LBJ for his efforts with Civil Rights you bizarrely responded that I viciously attack "every Democratic President."  I assume that even you realize that LBJ was a "Democratic President."  Thus, a falsehood.  Just one of many.  Anyone can read your endless, hate-filled threads on Trump that contain all manner of debunked conspiracy theories and judge for themselves whether you are several fries short of a happy meal.

 :D :D :D

Richard stepped up to the plate and watched 3 strikes go by not even taking his bat off his shoulder. Didn't even take a swing....pathetic.

Richard has made false accusations against me claiming that I "defended Oswald" and "posted outlandish and false copy and paste conspiracy theories", which I never did.

I asked Richard 3 times now to point to where I "defended Oswald and posted outlandish and false copy and paste conspiracy theories" and he completely ignored it 3 times now continuing on with his same ridiculous accusations as well as his usual gaslighting tactics.

Like I said before, everything I posted was 100% factual and accurate. Richard can't point to one thing inaccurate that I posted and he knows it. That's why he never even attempted to post anything. He is just wants to argue his same ridiculous nonsense.   
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on June 23, 2021, 04:44:33 PM
Howard Smith of the Rules Committee said he would hold up the Civil Rights Bill. But Johnson didn't persuade him to release the bill. Emanuel Celler, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee and the bill's floor manager, filed a petition to discharge the bill from the Rules Committee. When Congress reconvened in January, Smith was facing not only Celler's petition but an in-committee revolt (Democrats and moderate Republicans on the Committee who could have voted for his removal) if he didn't release the Bill.

Though not all, most of Congress, the media, clergy and the general public were behind what was a moral issue. There was also the incentive among politicians outside the South to have the bill passed before the election.
Well, now it's no longer JFK getting credit it's Celler?

Question: Why didn't Celler, who was chairman of the Judiciary Committee in the 1950s, do this while JFK was president? As Caro pointed out, Smith was keeping the bill from going to the floor. Celler could have gone around him then. But he didn't. Why not?

Answer: Nobody, i.e., JFK, was pushing him for it. Celler - and Humphrey who guided it through the Senate (this is where the bills were usually killed) - were in constant contact with LBJ, who was pushing, pushing, pushing for them to get the bill through. Humphrey and LBJ became so close that LBJ selected him as his Vice Presidential candidate for the '64 election.

The death of JFK was, as Caro pointed out, a major catalyst behind the passage. And it was LBJ using that death to shame, embarrass, prod, push Congress for its passage. And after the bill was passed LBJ pushed for passage of the Voting Rights Act, the Fair Housing Act and other assorted legislation and poverty programs to fight racial injustice. It wasn't just the Civil Rights Bill that he promoted. It was a long series of acts.

This unwillingness to give any credit to LBJ for this is remarkable.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on June 23, 2021, 06:11:01 PM
This is from the Caro account in "Passage to Power". LBJ provided "levers", i.e., votes, to Celler to get around Smith. When one failed, he would get another one. A more complete account is here:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Passage_of_Power/rQO5g9pQjDIC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Celler

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/X4hBIshPaK5Eary9bqkq4KOiOd_4Y3Qlvrdg1BPumsfphTrbtDy2zVu0Z3Xs3pQ2ovYM5QOmPp8NgUQCMdSAWou9x5McVRE1dbTIDqmYGU8nBnje8pVoyOfZ7nAfuGmV4PgsSRroOCT-Cflyq-pKIwSb1AbC1mt2Wvju5BFXo5Udf4vsSQ7lQuqtMlSr_JF7W6nLrT_ze9OIHIUA70LbEtnGxq5LuW_C8Met4slqgjEbcqbQbsb3wW2aZ-RzQLncRK_V8oLuocPuYUvSK77aE3Jpaj0ugGNVunwCv45CIG2qvTNOehTJt6TPMAuHFf1fZa7QZnDiFQfe7ZBrUwHnk17mLHFtvkUV6QHCSl8AgCRHCe27HlSQtVEKSPIV4JHdKY3H0d-JP_znzrccvGpgceG8y6fJAhZ0gQV39yl7YeSoppXyCSITmFy09u9YgRM7wVgxMLqdilPrhbcKtlhEmkhR7GKOWz-xrtcrXVFCtSWDM_ta2iI92KmL2qhlKqAS50B91Lil4HY3j_S-WiXUD5XUL8U5haCD8odDiDvj5wxy5BQ1xp2sx-WB9SoIfQgDTHG4fz8O7izBoJ5XnvbSX43GDpxcB7K7Vx2cvdf2fF68cVhYh717Q43mOch3mCjfj9AZ85lkI0FmhTHPTFA4Xdywz84_B6pcX90gKWq3wdJzAnD6mWuQeBN1wLft6XipUfxPpM3PyW79k6fZqdXhHzg=w576-h858-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 23, 2021, 07:21:15 PM
Yeah. I'm willing to put my home town and region in my profile, so it appears beneath my name in posts. How about you? And some of the other Republican apologists?

 :D He's not even brave enough to use his real name.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 23, 2021, 07:26:17 PM
And Johnson says, “What the hell’s the presidency for, then?” He makes civil rights a centerpiece of his speech. He puts it in the context of Kennedy’s memory. “This is what he fought for. This is what he wanted.” Sympathy for Kennedy is not the whole story, but it’s a big part of the story of why that Civil Rights Bill gets passed."

  Johnson, like other presidents, would often reveal his true motivations in asides that the press never picked up.
  During one trip, Johnson was discussing his proposed civil rights bill with two governors. Explaining why it was so
  important to him, he said it was simple: “I’ll have them niggers voting Democratic for two hundred years.”

  “That was the reason he was pushing the bill,” said MacMillan, who was present during the conversation. “Not
  because he wanted equality for everyone. It was strictly a political ploy for the Democratic party. He was phony
  from the word go.”

- Ronald Kessler, "Inside the White House: The Hidden Lives of the Modern Presidents and the Secrets of the World’s Most Powerful Institution", 1995
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on June 23, 2021, 08:25:20 PM
  Johnson, like other presidents, would often reveal his true motivations in asides that the press never picked up.
  During one trip, Johnson was discussing his proposed civil rights bill with two governors. Explaining why it was so
  important to him, he said it was simple: “I’ll have them niggers voting Democratic for two hundred years.”

  “That was the reason he was pushing the bill,” said MacMillan, who was present during the conversation. “Not
  because he wanted equality for everyone. It was strictly a political ploy for the Democratic party. He was phony
  from the word go.”

- Ronald Kessler, "Inside the White House: The Hidden Lives of the Modern Presidents and the Secrets of the World’s Most Powerful Institution", 1995
So we have on the one hand Caro's (and other historians; see Dallek for example) long detailed account of LBJ and his support for civil rights and other legislation and then on the other you have this anecdote and you think the latter outweighs the former?

As I cited from Caro, LBJ literally risked his presidency - his election in 1964 - by pushing this legislation. His advisers told him no, don't do it, it's too risky, it might split the party, lose the South. But he went ahead. From our advantage point today it didn't appear too risky; but not at that time. They didn't know that a terrible candidate like Goldwater would get the Republican nomination.

He then worked after his election in '64 and after the Civil Rights Bill had been enacted for passage of a Voting Rights Act, a Fair Housing Act, poverty programs, education programs and more to address racial injustice. The civil rights bill alone was enough to secure the black vote. Particularly after Goldwater and the GOP came out against it. Once they did that the black vote was lost for generations. As it has been. So why then follow up with all of this other legislation? It's not needed. He's got the black vote secured.

That long series of acts (yes, he didn't pass them alone; he had a large majority in Congress after the '64 election) are not the acts of a racist who hates black people. If he hated black people then why try to get their vote? And by trying to get their votes in the South he risked losing the larger white vote. And chances for election. Which also happened later. As he said it probably would. It makes no sense.

Was all of this done with no self interest involved? Of course not. He was a mean, nasty, miserable person. Caro documents it - his regular use of the "n" word and other shocking language; as have others. In fact, Caro has repeatedly stated that he "loathes" LBJ. But to dismiss it all - when the evidence presented by Caro indicates otherwise - as being only selfish acts by a racist (really? why would a racist want black votes when he didn't need them? for what) to win over black votes is simply not supported by history.

It's difficult to reconcile these two images: LBJ the user of racist slurs and other horrible language and LBJ the promoter of racial justice. Who was the real LBJ? Answer: both. We have to somehow hold both views of the man at the same time. Not easy to do but it's what he was.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on June 24, 2021, 04:25:48 PM
LBJ won 94% of the black vote in the 1964 election. He didn't need to do anything more; the black vote was his. Meanwhile, the Republican Party, by opposing the '64 Civil Rights Act, had lost the black vote for generations. The "game" was over. As it essentially has been since then.

If LBJ was driven solely by a desire to secure or win over the black vote (a strange wish for a supposed racist), he had accomplished that. He didn't need to then pass, as was done in his administration, a Voting Rights Act, a Fair Housing Act, another civil rights bill, and a series of poverty and education programs that were intended to address racial injustice. Why do all of this? The black vote had been won. It wasn't necessary.

As to his role in the passage of the Civil Rights Bill, the accounts have been made by historians like Robert Caro, Robert Dallek and others. His work on behalf of the bill was essential in getting it passed. As Caro pointed out, at the time of JFK's death, the bill was going nowhere. It took JFK's death and LBJ's efforts (and yes, others) to get it passed. To ignore this is to ignore the fact that 1+1=2.

It has nothing to do with Donald Trump or "strongman" or any other silly argument. It has to do with the facts.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8jQosCQ8DOcNT20ikaqOijKfz9njzCUiE_hTyJK1aPCfCPElpqXb7k_0WzM0ry5m30euzVweypZBJKD--LNytIoV0--bfJzcD-K2Vx-66NNXZ76BMhJeTVLxJVopUxz-uQSwMJyUKPk0W1rHS54JrU5g5ZNfnZ7yMfDSxph0ASfx3bJ8ahDHs7nWfy10xlrh_CSCM2hcWi7jxAK4mAZhyHP3GCIRmb_bLkfP1TA7fIFJ2RWUg6Fzhjel6T9Qpp4bnBnhTTplrm6oVeZvNr0xK8uk6FsOaBzkNPfh_Uv2gHUb8w37F3sYfmf_XFh2jYCBXmovHXd0vCo_6HPcFy5oB9TQIGWtZBYKNT9AJ4k3J3Q5A1-LZpX5euNi1qKBw-co0k_s2eAKsi_Oxof5hm_-ccManBn87-02oQohfdVqI-Y4I08JRD7JK1ullBancRaDENNtCKLk_hSopHWTGfMrd3CQqT7Wjg8DGZXzrfEgXmzRzcuAsZCyqmothopjYUJhAm_VyODEkN3C3ijIUXDAxR6KZfXYTLbVUB8ku193srVO4A27DPcVqRNTXbiCmlQ1IsTRA7RxeLVf_NzZ4zhGsok6H5zk5J-gR5QZPr0avP-stJxpE2qHeOsWypxnfidpASJeURLTMtWrTG7k_nPMRze6g1ddimASFJAp43UBGwxzscOQeONrduLSMYolZHY8pqHsRj_bQb-KE6WldVz0xjw=w517-h525-no?authuser=0)
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 24, 2021, 07:33:10 PM
Caro seems smitten with Johnson:
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "To see Lyndon Johnson get that bill through, almost vote by vote
     is to see not only legislative power but legislative genius."

He must have gotten the "Johnson Treatment" from listening to all those WH recordings. The "myth" has gone on to infect other authors and now movies and documentaries. So entrenched, it's like JFK was assassinated by a conspiracy.



Caro is often highly critical of LBJ.  He is the foremost expert on the topic and has spent decades researching his books.  If there is any "myth" in this context it is JFK's "Camelot."  JFK accomplished very little.  Certainly nothing of importance with Civil Rights.  Rather than the shining prince of white liberal elitist lore, JFK was an entitled lightweight with a well documented record of adultery, drug use, and undisclosed serious medical condition that he lied to the public about while running for office.  More Harvey Weinstein than King Arthur.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 25, 2021, 01:17:57 AM
Cuomo? Like I said the rules of attacking politicians, whatever they are, should be applied equally to all.

Well, let me know when it's equally applied to Trump stooges Greg Abbott and Ron DeSantis as well, then we can talk about it being equal for all politicians.   
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 25, 2021, 01:46:47 AM
JFK made no "contribution to Civil Rights".

Again, after I praised LBJ for his efforts with Civil Rights you bizarrely responded that I viciously attack "every Democratic President."  I assume that even you realize that LBJ was a "Democratic President."  Thus, a falsehood.  Just one of many.  Anyone can read your endless, hate-filled threads on Trump that contain all manner of debunked conspiracy theories and judge for themselves whether you are several fries short of a happy meal.

 :D  :D :D

You only "praised" LBJ for Civil Rights so you could disparage President Kennedy claiming he "did nothing" while you viciously attack every other Democratic President. You aren't fooling anybody.

"Endless hate-filled threads on Trump that contain all manner of debunked conspiracy theories". That doesn't even exist. I gave you 3 opportunities to locate one of these posts you claim I posted and you ignored it each time. And rightly so, because they don't exist.

Here's something you might want to consider purchasing Richard. It's a gold coin from the American Mint commemorating President Kennedy's contribution to Civil Rights. It can remind you that you're just a propagandist that makes up garbage to disparage President Kennedy and other Democratic Presidents while you still fawn over your orange criminal that did great harm to Civil Rights.

Kennedy and the Civil Rights Movement Commemorative Coin

President Kennedy's Civil Rights Address - the Speech that Changed the Nation

Features a detailed portraitA 24k Gold-Layered Tribute to JFK on the 50th Anniversary of his Civil Rights Address

With an excerpt from his historic Civil Rights address on the obverse


"Today, we are commited to a worldwide struggle to promote and protect the rights of all who wish to be free."
John F. Kennedy

On June 6, 1963, President Kennedy presented anationally televised speech in response to the U.S. National Guard being sent to protect Vivian Malone and James Hood, two African-American students enrolling at the University of Alabama. In this nowhistoric address, he urged the nation to take action toward guaranteeing equal treatment of every American regardless of race. Soon after, Kennedy proposed that Congress consider civil rights legislation that would address voting rights, public accommodations, school desegregation, nondiscrimination in federally assisted programs, and more. Kennedy's proposal culminated in the Civil Rights Act of1964. Signed into law by President Lyndon Johnson on July 2, 1964 - less than a year after Kennedy's assassination - the act outlawed all discriminatory employment practices based on sex or race andended segregation in public places such as swimming pools, libraries, and public schools.

Specially minted to mark the 50th Anniversary of JFK's historic Civil Rights Address, this AMERICANMINT EXCLUSIVE coin features a highly detailed engraving of President Kenndy and an excerpt from his speech on the obverse. Minted to the highest quality "Proof" standard and layered in 24k gold, it is an incredible 2.75" in diameter. A stirring tribute to one of the most important Presidential speeches in the modern era, this colossal commemorative coin is limited to only 9,999 complete collections worldwide and comes encased in a protective capsule to preserve it for future generations.



(https://www.americanmint.com/media/image/19/15/6e/2512751-51ptk7Q05geVrvq_600x600@2x.jpg)
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 25, 2021, 11:38:37 PM
Kennedy was canonized all over the world. Many wanted to remember Kennedy in a positive light. His more-inspiring ideas ("New Frontier", Moon Landing, Peace Corps, and Civil Rights) seem to mark a change from the past. His "brand" was that of a young prince struck down by the forces of evil; the lot of the Irish to suffer tragedy.

(https://tsfimagehost.net/images/2020/02/06/03b8bda9208d119097c17284c50a4045.jpg)  (https://i.colnect.net/f/4326/227/Shaking-hands.jpg)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
These stamps show the funeral
and the Kennedys at Love Field.

In the wake of the assassination, there would soon be enough Kennedy commemorative stamps to justify a thematic collection. Many of these stamps were called "Dunes" because they originated in what is today called the United Arab Emirates. In 1963, Britain relinquished control of the postal system there. Finbar Kenny, an American businessman, sold the UAE on the idea of printing commemorative stamps aimed at the global collector market. These stamps, sometimes oversized with metallic printing, commemorated people and events that had little to do with the issuing Arab sheikhdoms and weren't officially used as postage.

Thanks for posting these stamps Jerry.

Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 26, 2021, 03:35:48 AM
It has nothing to do with Donald Trump or "strongman" or any other silly argument. It has to do with the facts.

Criminal Donald launched the biggest assault against Civil Rights in American History. He called for and encouraged police brutality against Americans (specifically African Americans), dismantled voting rights, attacked peaceful protestors for his bible photo op, and shut down professional black athletes to peacefully bring awareness to police brutality by taking a knee before the game. His entire bogus "presidency" was based on racsim because he wanted to appeal to white supremacists that are his core base. 

It was his hateful and racist rhetoric that allowed African Americans to be shot and beaten by racist cops because he encouraged them to do it. And when African Americans finally had enough of this police brutality, they decided to march and protest in the streets along with other races joining in the Black Lives Matter movement, Criminal Donald had his unidentified military gestapo thugs violently beat up protestors. And you had the right wing media pushing lies and propaganda against this civil rights movement because they are against civil rights.

Trump to police: 'Please don't be too nice' to suspects: He made the comments during a speech to law enforcement officers today
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-police-nice-suspects/story?id=48914504

Trump urged military to 'crack skulls' while suppressing George Floyd protests at White House
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-protesters/
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on June 26, 2021, 03:45:51 AM
Maybe this should have been a poll. Enough Dallas monuments have been torn down or demolished.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on June 26, 2021, 05:34:41 AM
One statue removed from Dallas Love Field ....A Texas Ranger.
Used to be "One riot--One Ranger" Oh well.
Was there in 1961.... so Kennedy might have seen it but probably not.
Someone wrote this book and said some of the Rangers were racist :-\

https://www.dallasnews.com/arts-entertainment/visual-arts/2020/06/03/the-statue-of-the-texas-ranger-at-love-field-may-be-coming-down/
 
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 26, 2021, 04:25:44 PM
The only ones I could find that were recently removed were Confederate ones.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Monument1.JPG/450px-Monument1.JPG)  (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/RobertELeeStatuteDallas.jpg/450px-RobertELeeStatuteDallas.jpg)

How come the same people who are tearing down these statues are the same ones constructing statues of an individual who robbed a pregnant woman at gun point?


Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on June 26, 2021, 05:21:58 PM
(https://dallasnews.imgix.net/1503935236-mansfield-front2.PNG)


  (https://www.focusdailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/FB-post.png)<<<<Integration still hasn't caught on very well in Mansfield
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 26, 2021, 05:28:24 PM
They're the "same ones"? You sure about that? You seem to paint pretty broadly there and delight in stereotypes.

The Floyd statue is mean to honor the Turning Point in History of his death, when a White Power police officer was finally brought to justice for the cold-blood murder of a black man.

Maybe you think Chauvin is the one who, per Fox News' Tucker Carlson, was lynched? Or are you just going to keep pussyfooting around with your dog-whistles and tropes?

Are they going to build a statue to the unarmed woman and former military vet killed by the Capitol police?  I'm guessing not.  At least Floyd's murderer was convicted after an open investigation.  They have covered up all the details of the Jan. 6 shooting including the name of the officer involved.  Where is the outrage?  Again, you do not appear to really be concerned with police abuses or racism but using certain selective incidences for political purposes.  The Dems need 80-90% of the black vote to have any chance of winning an election.  As a result, they must convince black citizens that they are subject to racism and only their white elitists liberal overlords can protect them from the racist republicans.  But if a liberal elitist like Trudeau puts on blackface and acts like a moron, there is nothing to see.  It's all Trump's fault.   In actuality, we live in the most prosperous and diverse society in the history of the world.  It is sad and unfortunate that there are those who try to divide folks based on race, gender, and income.  A very destructive way to maintain political power.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on June 26, 2021, 09:56:30 PM
Ashli Babbitt was shot leading a violent mob........ 
Ashli Babbitt was not leading anything.
Before you come back with the usual...the DOJ has already closed the thing and continues to refuse to name the shooter that murdered her.
Quote
The investigation determined that, on January 6, 2021, Ms. Babbitt joined a crowd of people that gathered on the U.S. Capitol grounds to protest the results of the 2020 presidential election.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/department-justice-closes-investigation-death-ashli-babbitt
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on June 27, 2021, 12:49:23 AM
The Capitol Police said not releasing the name was: "standard procedure when there are concerns for an officer’s safety, as there are in this case."
  Babbitt did far worst than many unarmed black people do when they're shot by police. The officer may have thought Babbitt had a gun in her hand; you know, one of the usual excuses police use when they shoot blacks.
Babbitt did far worst worse?
Lets see...The nation makes a role model out of a career criminal, drug addict and all around bum---
By evenings end...the entire planet knew Derek Chauvin's name no "officer's safety concern there.
https://greatgameindia.com/george-floyd-criminal/
Ashli Babbitt's crime was that she was a supporter of Donald Trump and part of the Capitol crowd. I can find no criminal history concerning her. So "far worse"? Why say that?
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on June 27, 2021, 02:58:12 AM
So, Babbitt was just a typical run-of-the-mill supporter of Donald Trump who believed Democrats were raping children?
Was that a question? Raping children? Well...if you say so. But I would call that idea completely off the wall. Not surprisingly.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 27, 2021, 02:59:40 AM
What I was discussing was Babbitt's actions at the time she was shot; she was a QAnon zealot

You're showing yourself to be incoherent. The person who shot the woman did not know anything about her background at time he shot her nor had read anything she had posted on Twitter or Facebook. The idiot needlessly shot an unarmed woman in the neck. He knew nothing of her background - good or bad.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 27, 2021, 03:53:57 AM
Babbitt was trying to overthrow the US government? Using what, her bare hands?
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on June 27, 2021, 04:04:01 AM
Jerry Freeman is another one spreading false right wing propaganda.
Does that mean there is a 'true' right wing propaganda?
 
Quote
Ashli Babbit's was a far right wing domestic terrorist. That is treason against the United States of America...  Ashli Babbit was warned several times not to enter the Capitol and she smashed through the window anyway. She got what she deserved attempting to overthrow the US Government.
Always the pompous Plant. "Attempting to overthrow".... "Warned several times" huh? "Got what she deserved"? You were there? Your hatred for Trump has melted your brain. I feel sorry for you.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 27, 2021, 03:57:02 PM
Tell us where we can see Floyd was made "a role model".

Was Floyd arrested in the midst of a sympathetic angry semi-armed mob who were threatening the police with taunts, physical assaulting several and refusing to comply? Also, Chauvin wasn't the singular policeman who did harm to Floyd over the course of nearly ten minutes.

That's not a crime nor why she was shot. Supporting a racist like Trump is a huge moral lapse, maybe. So, Babbitt was just a typical run-of-the-mill supporter of Donald Trump who believed Democrats were raping children?

You're comparing criminal records. What I was discussing was Babbitt's actions at the time she was shot; she was a QAnon zealot at the front of a vicious mob defying police and causing them physical harm, she reportedly shouted threats against the police and shouted "Go! Go!" as she was lifted up (so she could, I believe, attempt to unbolt the hallway barrier). By contrast, Floyd was handcuffed and pinned to the ground, gradually getting weaker until he suffocated.

Whether it's the Klan or Donald Trump talking about women being killed by migrants, the deaths of white women have served as a "rallying cry" to recruit or justify their evil.

Do you think the Capitol police would have been justified in shooting every unarmed protestor who entered the Capitol?  And you are really citing her political opinions as a justification for the police to kill her?  Scary.  I view this through the prism of the law.  Not race or politics.  If someone is committing a crime, then arrest them.  That goes for BLM and Jan. 6.  I think Chauvin should have been given the death penalty.  Not because he killed a black man but because he committed murder.  I have seen no reason to justify the killing of Babbitt.  She was one among many unarmed protestors that day.  Why kill her amongst that large crowd?  No answers have been provided but simple trespass is not a sufficient justification to shoot her.  Here in America everyone is entitled to have their own political opinions.  That is not a justification to kill them.  Maybe things are different in Canada where everyone has been brainwashed to have the same liberal woke ideas.  Easier there where there is no diversity.  It is all talk with no consequences.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 27, 2021, 04:57:26 PM
There is no way to know if the protestors weapons were for self defense against antifa or for attack. Antifa more likely. Antifa were at the protest and looking for trouble.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on June 27, 2021, 07:04:37 PM
Caro is often highly critical of LBJ.  He is the foremost expert on the topic and has spent decades researching his books.  If there is any "myth" in this context it is JFK's "Camelot."  JFK accomplished very little.  Certainly nothing of importance with Civil Rights.  Rather than the shining prince of white liberal elitist lore, JFK was an entitled lightweight with a well documented record of adultery, drug use, and undisclosed serious medical condition that he lied to the public about while running for office.  More Harvey Weinstein than King Arthur.
Caro says he "detests" and "loathes" LBJ for his appalling behavior and dishonesty. And he documents much of this behavior in his earlier volumes; the horrible mistreatment of "Bird", the dishonesty (LBJ's fellow college friends called him "Lying Lyndon") and more. In fact, Caro says that the LBJ family stopped responding to his requests for interviews because they were angry at his portrayal of LBJ.

My guess is that his next book will document the duplicity and corruption of LBJ during the Vietnam War. Anyone who thinks Caro is mythologizing LBJ hasn't read his books.

LBJ's a difficult man to understand. He was so awful, so mean spirited and deceitful. How could someone like that be so right when it came to civil rights and racial justice? People need to say "He was awful" and all of his work for civil rights was for personal gain. And nothing more. But that's simply not true. Caro shows this. So does Dallek, So do other historians.

People can reject all of this documentation if they want to. Or need to.

As for your JFK comments: in his defense he always was dealing with crises; the historian Richard Reeves called it a "crisis Presidency". Some were his fault, some beyond his control. So he really had little time to deal with his domestic agenda, either civil rights or Medicare or the tax cuts. And it took someone like an LBJ, who knew how to get legislation around the various "fiefdoms" that powerful Congressman held, to push it through.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Bill Chapman on June 27, 2021, 08:57:46 PM
Would like to see your location under your name.

C'mon, Jerry.. you're not being totally Canadian with your location
Halifax, Nova Scotia > should be > Halifax, Nova Scotia, eh?

I won't go any further than 'Canada, eh?'
Maybe these characters could narrow theirs down to which solar system, at least..
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Bill Chapman on June 28, 2021, 05:00:33 AM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Canada_provincial_parties_map_by_political_position.svg/496px-Canada_provincial_parties_map_by_political_position.svg.png)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
"The governing political party(s) by political
position in each Canadian province." (Wikipedia)

Here's the "socialist utopia" they seem to think Canada is, as shown by provincial  governments (the US equivalent to provinces are states; provinces share co-sovereignty with the federal government). The one "left-wing" province (orange color) is British Columbia, with the NDP who won last year (the last time they previously won a majority government was in 1991).

Of the four major political parties in national politics, three are conservative or have conservative economic policies. The one "left-wing" party usually comes in third and is more a pro-union party. There have been in the past several small extreme-right federal parties, the current one being the People's Party of Canada.

I'm Canadian, btw.. no need to explain to me what provinces are..
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on June 28, 2021, 03:39:49 PM
This is a very frightening and disturbing post.  You are arguing that Babbitt's political view somehow justified her killing.  The classic victim blaming.  Imagine if that standard were applied to Floyd.  There were hundreds or thousands who entered the Capitol with similar views.  Her situation was not singular.  She was unarmed.  Again, do you think all the protestors should have been killed that day?  It's a simple question.

This whole thing was like a bank robbery.  But it wasn't for money, honey.  Where was her flack jacket?  She was such a toad.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 28, 2021, 04:39:32 PM
This whole thing was like a bank robbery.  But it wasn't for money, honey.  Where was her flack jacket?  She was such a toad.

You're probably one of those people who supports a woman's right to choose, unless she chooses to be conservative, in which case she should be shot.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on June 30, 2021, 10:13:08 PM
Babbitt was trying to overthrow the US government? Using what, her bare hands?
No. Apparently, she had a whip [to make the cops submit to her will!] also, her friends had brought weapons of mess destruction.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on June 30, 2021, 10:43:24 PM
It must have been back in the 80s or so. I can't find any link. Anyway, some Dallas city counsel guy said that he thinks the TSBD [which had fallen into disuse] should be torn down because he thought that it was a "shrine to Oswald". His idea [obviously] got no support.
Today it is a rip off 6th floor museum and county offices.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 30, 2021, 11:35:33 PM
It must have been back in the 80s or so. I can't find any link. Anyway, some Dallas city counsel guy said that he thinks the TSBD [which had fallen into disuse] should be torn down because he thought that it was a "shrine to Oswald". His idea [obviously] got no support.
Today it is a rip off 6th floor museum and county offices.

Often the buildings in which notorious killers have killed people get torn down to stop people visiting them. It wouldn't have been unusual if the TSBD building had been demolished too.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 17, 2021, 02:32:58 AM
(https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/L4CQRFWAVII6VCIINCRLT2XJ4A.jpg)  (https://www.irishcentral.com/uploads/article-v2/2019/11/135880/donald_trump_jr_jfk___getty.jpg)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
They don't wear the hood anymore. Not since Gramps' day (note Klan outfit on lap).

But their heads are still pointed.
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Richard Smith on July 27, 2021, 06:47:52 PM
I was giving it a rest. My last blackface post was 15 days ago. Racism seems prevalent in your thoughts and maybe even on your conscience, so you keep dredging it up.

Rick is doing a commendable job denying the Republicans' gas-lighting of recent events and pleas to dismiss Trump's "absolutes" phraseology as just locker-room talk.

Giving it a rest entails posting a picture of the Trump family on a thread about the TSBD and claiming they have some association to the KKK?  Unreal.  And racism is prevalent in my thoughts?  LOL.  This from the same hypocrite who defends blackface as a "youthful indiscretion."  Here is a simple suggestion.  Keep this looney spombleprofglidnoctobunse off this board and take it to the off topic section if you feel the need to discuss current politics.   
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 27, 2021, 08:12:33 PM
@Trump arse-kissers

Trump said there was 'a lot of love' at the Capitol on January 6. One of the cops testifying at the Insurrection Hearing today, who was fkn' nearly killed while defending the seat of government, remarked 'I'm still recovering from all those hugs and kisses'

--------
BONUS
--------
If you support Trump,
You might be a redneck
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 27, 2021, 09:17:12 PM
Re masks, as of just now on CNN, a guy (who was not vaccinated and wore no mask himself apparently) got COVID when somebody with no mask coughed right in his face, had to get a double-lung transplant.

Of course these people are just actors and the whole thing is faked..
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 27, 2021, 09:34:15 PM
Apparently you consider Ashli Babbitt being "murdered" and deserving of a statue more on-topic.

Many believe Fred Trump was arrested in costume at a NYC Klan march. And an out-of-court settlement was all that prevented the Trumps from being convicted of "red-lining".

    "In 1973, the U.S. Department of Justice sued Trump Management,
     Donald Trump and his father Fred, for discrimination against African
     Americans in their renting practices.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
     Testers from the New York City Human Rights Division had found that
     prospective black renters at Trump buildings were told there were no
     apartments available, while prospective White renters were offered
     apartments at the same buildings. During the investigation four of
     Trump's agents admitted to using a "C" (for "colored") or "9" code to
     label Black applicants and stated that they were told their company
     "discouraged rental to blacks" or that they were "not allowed to rent to
     black tenants," and that prospective Black renters should be sent to the
     central office while White renters could have their applications accepted
     on site. Three doormen testified to being told to discourage prospective
     Black renters by lying about the rental prices or claiming no vacancies
     were available. A settlement was reached in 1975 where Trump agreed
     to familiarize himself with the Fair Housing Act, take out ads stating that
     Black renters were welcome, give a list of vacancies to the Urban League
     on a weekly basis, and allow the Urban League to present qualified
     candidates for 20% of vacancies in properties that were less than 10%
     non-White.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
     Elyse Goldweber, the Justice Department lawyer tasked with taking 
     Trump's deposition, has stated that during a coffee break Trump said
     to her directly, "You know, you don't want to live with them either."
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
     The Trump Organization was sued again in 1978 for violating terms of
     the 1975 settlement by continuing to refuse to rent to black tenants;"
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
          — Wikipedia ( Link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump) )

And that's the tip of the iceberg.

The raft video clip is suspiciously cropped and brief; for all anyone knows, the group was doing "Lord of the Flies". The Drama Club "Day-O" and Arabian Nights Gala "Aladdin" pictures show a specific character, not a stereotype. And definitely not an Amos 'n' Andy skit nor discrimination against black renters.

Trudeau was in his 20s. By contrast, Trump was 59 in the "bus tape" when he made those degrading and hateful remarks about women.

BTW, if you're going to keep using my location against me, how about giving us your own: the states you grew up and where you currently live?

Speaking of spombleprofglidnoctobunse, did someone craap in your Corn Flakes?

How about no more Babbitt being lionized and Loony-Tunes claims of "Trump vaccine"?

'Tip of the iceberg' joke time:

A Titanic tour guide, pointing out features of the new ship, goes on about the big ballroom, swimming pool, great food, bowling alleys, etc etc... and finishes with 'And that's just the tip of the iceberg!'

Note: I forget the name of the comedian who wrote this joke
Update: Andy Kindler
Title: Re: Should the TSBD be demolished?
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 28, 2021, 12:55:56 AM
I'm knot shore, either. But the guys in the lifeboat were Rowin' Atkinson, Finny Youngman, Ebb-ie Murphy, Wreck Moranis, Seth Rowin' and Alec Bobbing. Fred Trump was cowering in a white outfit, dressed as a woman.

Good one

Actually it is Andy Kindler