Should the TSBD be demolished?

[John Iacoletti]

And Johnson says, “What the hell’s the presidency for, then?” He makes civil rights a centerpiece of his speech. He puts it in the context of Kennedy’s memory. “This is what he fought for. This is what he wanted.” Sympathy for Kennedy is not the whole story, but it’s a big part of the story of why that Civil Rights Bill gets passed."

  Johnson, like other presidents, would often reveal his true motivations in asides that the press never picked up.
  During one trip, Johnson was discussing his proposed civil rights bill with two governors. Explaining why it was so
  important to him, he said it was simple: “I’ll have them niggers voting Democratic for two hundred years.”

  “That was the reason he was pushing the bill,” said MacMillan, who was present during the conversation. “Not
  because he wanted equality for everyone. It was strictly a political ploy for the Democratic party. He was phony
  from the word go.”

- Ronald Kessler, "Inside the White House: The Hidden Lives of the Modern Presidents and the Secrets of the World’s Most Powerful Institution", 1995

[Steve M. Galbraith]

  Johnson, like other presidents, would often reveal his true motivations in asides that the press never picked up.
  During one trip, Johnson was discussing his proposed civil rights bill with two governors. Explaining why it was so
  important to him, he said it was simple: “I’ll have them niggers voting Democratic for two hundred years.”

  “That was the reason he was pushing the bill,” said MacMillan, who was present during the conversation. “Not
  because he wanted equality for everyone. It was strictly a political ploy for the Democratic party. He was phony
  from the word go.”

- Ronald Kessler, "Inside the White House: The Hidden Lives of the Modern Presidents and the Secrets of the World’s Most Powerful Institution", 1995

So we have on the one hand Caro's (and other historians; see Dallek for example) long detailed account of LBJ and his support for civil rights and other legislation and then on the other you have this anecdote and you think the latter outweighs the former?

As I cited from Caro, LBJ literally risked his presidency - his election in 1964 - by pushing this legislation. His advisers told him no, don't do it, it's too risky, it might split the party, lose the South. But he went ahead. From our advantage point today it didn't appear too risky; but not at that time. They didn't know that a terrible candidate like Goldwater would get the Republican nomination.

He then worked after his election in '64 and after the Civil Rights Bill had been enacted for passage of a Voting Rights Act, a Fair Housing Act, poverty programs, education programs and more to address racial injustice. The civil rights bill alone was enough to secure the black vote. Particularly after Goldwater and the GOP came out against it. Once they did that the black vote was lost for generations. As it has been. So why then follow up with all of this other legislation? It's not needed. He's got the black vote secured.

That long series of acts (yes, he didn't pass them alone; he had a large majority in Congress after the '64 election) are not the acts of a racist who hates black people. If he hated black people then why try to get their vote? And by trying to get their votes in the South he risked losing the larger white vote. And chances for election. Which also happened later. As he said it probably would. It makes no sense.

Was all of this done with no self interest involved? Of course not. He was a mean, nasty, miserable person. Caro documents it - his regular use of the "n" word and other shocking language; as have others. In fact, Caro has repeatedly stated that he "loathes" LBJ. But to dismiss it all - when the evidence presented by Caro indicates otherwise - as being only selfish acts by a racist (really? why would a racist want black votes when he didn't need them? for what) to win over black votes is simply not supported by history.

It's difficult to reconcile these two images: LBJ the user of racist slurs and other horrible language and LBJ the promoter of racial justice. Who was the real LBJ? Answer: both. We have to somehow hold both views of the man at the same time. Not easy to do but it's what he was.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

LBJ won 94% of the black vote in the 1964 election. He didn't need to do anything more; the black vote was his. Meanwhile, the Republican Party, by opposing the '64 Civil Rights Act, had lost the black vote for generations. The "game" was over. As it essentially has been since then.

If LBJ was driven solely by a desire to secure or win over the black vote (a strange wish for a supposed racist), he had accomplished that. He didn't need to then pass, as was done in his administration, a Voting Rights Act, a Fair Housing Act, another civil rights bill, and a series of poverty and education programs that were intended to address racial injustice. Why do all of this? The black vote had been won. It wasn't necessary.

As to his role in the passage of the Civil Rights Bill, the accounts have been made by historians like Robert Caro, Robert Dallek and others. His work on behalf of the bill was essential in getting it passed. As Caro pointed out, at the time of JFK's death, the bill was going nowhere. It took JFK's death and LBJ's efforts (and yes, others) to get it passed. To ignore this is to ignore the fact that 1+1=2.

It has nothing to do with Donald Trump or "strongman" or any other silly argument. It has to do with the facts.

[Richard Smith]

Caro seems smitten with Johnson:

    "To see Lyndon Johnson get that bill through, almost vote by vote
     is to see not only legislative power but legislative genius."

He must have gotten the "Johnson Treatment" from listening to all those WH recordings. The "myth" has gone on to infect other authors and now movies and documentaries. So entrenched, it's like JFK was assassinated by a conspiracy.

Caro is often highly critical of LBJ.  He is the foremost expert on the topic and has spent decades researching his books.  If there is any "myth" in this context it is JFK's "Camelot."  JFK accomplished very little.  Certainly nothing of importance with Civil Rights.  Rather than the shining prince of white liberal elitist lore, JFK was an entitled lightweight with a well documented record of adultery, drug use, and undisclosed serious medical condition that he lied to the public about while running for office.  More Harvey Weinstein than King Arthur.

[Rick Plant]

Cuomo? Like I said the rules of attacking politicians, whatever they are, should be applied equally to all.

Well, let me know when it's equally applied to Trump stooges Greg Abbott and Ron DeSantis as well, then we can talk about it being equal for all politicians.   

[Rick Plant]

JFK made no "contribution to Civil Rights".

Again, after I praised LBJ for his efforts with Civil Rights you bizarrely responded that I viciously attack "every Democratic President."  I assume that even you realize that LBJ was a "Democratic President."  Thus, a falsehood.  Just one of many.  Anyone can read your endless, hate-filled threads on Trump that contain all manner of debunked conspiracy theories and judge for themselves whether you are several fries short of a happy meal.

  

You only "praised" LBJ for Civil Rights so you could disparage President Kennedy claiming he "did nothing" while you viciously attack every other Democratic President. You aren't fooling anybody.

"Endless hate-filled threads on Trump that contain all manner of debunked conspiracy theories". That doesn't even exist. I gave you 3 opportunities to locate one of these posts you claim I posted and you ignored it each time. And rightly so, because they don't exist.

Here's something you might want to consider purchasing Richard. It's a gold coin from the American Mint commemorating President Kennedy's contribution to Civil Rights. It can remind you that you're just a propagandist that makes up garbage to disparage President Kennedy and other Democratic Presidents while you still fawn over your orange criminal that did great harm to Civil Rights.

Kennedy and the Civil Rights Movement Commemorative Coin

President Kennedy's Civil Rights Address - the Speech that Changed the Nation

Features a detailed portraitA 24k Gold-Layered Tribute to JFK on the 50th Anniversary of his Civil Rights Address

With an excerpt from his historic Civil Rights address on the obverse

"Today, we are commited to a worldwide struggle to promote and protect the rights of all who wish to be free."
John F. Kennedy

On June 6, 1963, President Kennedy presented anationally televised speech in response to the U.S. National Guard being sent to protect Vivian Malone and James Hood, two African-American students enrolling at the University of Alabama. In this nowhistoric address, he urged the nation to take action toward guaranteeing equal treatment of every American regardless of race. Soon after, Kennedy proposed that Congress consider civil rights legislation that would address voting rights, public accommodations, school desegregation, nondiscrimination in federally assisted programs, and more. Kennedy's proposal culminated in the Civil Rights Act of1964. Signed into law by President Lyndon Johnson on July 2, 1964 - less than a year after Kennedy's assassination - the act outlawed all discriminatory employment practices based on sex or race andended segregation in public places such as swimming pools, libraries, and public schools.

Specially minted to mark the 50th Anniversary of JFK's historic Civil Rights Address, this AMERICANMINT EXCLUSIVE coin features a highly detailed engraving of President Kenndy and an excerpt from his speech on the obverse. Minted to the highest quality "Proof" standard and layered in 24k gold, it is an incredible 2.75" in diameter. A stirring tribute to one of the most important Presidential speeches in the modern era, this colossal commemorative coin is limited to only 9,999 complete collections worldwide and comes encased in a protective capsule to preserve it for future generations.

[Rick Plant]

Kennedy was canonized all over the world. Many wanted to remember Kennedy in a positive light. His more-inspiring ideas ("New Frontier", Moon Landing, Peace Corps, and Civil Rights) seem to mark a change from the past. His "brand" was that of a young prince struck down by the forces of evil; the lot of the Irish to suffer tragedy.

These stamps show the funeral and the Kennedys at Love Field.

In the wake of the assassination, there would soon be enough Kennedy commemorative stamps to justify a thematic collection. Many of these stamps were called "Dunes" because they originated in what is today called the United Arab Emirates. In 1963, Britain relinquished control of the postal system there. Finbar Kenny, an American businessman, sold the UAE on the idea of printing commemorative stamps aimed at the global collector market. These stamps, sometimes oversized with metallic printing, commemorated people and events that had little to do with the issuing Arab sheikhdoms and weren't officially used as postage.

Thanks for posting these stamps Jerry.