JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate => Topic started by: Marjan Rynkiewicz on May 25, 2021, 03:07:34 AM
-
Ok lets have another look at Adams & Styles great escape.
Adams said that after the shots they stood at the 4th floor window for 20 sec. Styles said a bit longer. Adams said that they went to the back stairs. Styles said that they went to the elevator first. How long did they stand at the elevator (was the electricity off). From there they would have walked throo the storage area to the back stairs via the door near the elevator, not the door from the office. Anyhow the elevator detour adds a few seconds to their transit. I reckon that they didn’t enter the storage area until 40 sec after the shots.
After entering the storage area Adams & Styles would have taken about 48 sec to exit to the Houston dock, this route having the same overall distance & the same length of stairway & the same time as the Oswald re-enactment. Actually, they were rushing, whilst in The 6th Floor Museum youtube re-enactment "Oswald" aint, so they would have exited in say 40 sec, making it a total of 80 sec (instead of Adam's claimed 60 sec).
In Secret Service re-enactments in the TSBD Oswald took 78 sec & 74 sec to get to the 2nd floor (after the last shot). In a modern Sixth Floor Museum re-enactment in a similar warehouse Oswald took 48 seconds without rushing. In the Secret Service re-enactment the Agent is mincing along nonchalant & smelling the flowers as he goes. He must have been paid by the second. In The 6th Floor Museum re-enactment "Oswald" was paid by the yard, but wasn’t rushing, & didn’t take any short cuts.
The critical thing is that Oswald had already quietly snuk around the say 8 paces from one leg of the stairs to the other leg well before Adams & Styles had entered the storage area. Indeed he would have already reached the 2nd floor & exited the stairs if Adams & Styles took 48 sec to enter the storage area.
Even if Oswald did take say 8 paces on the 4th floor (to get from one leg of the stairs to the other leg) while Adams & Styles were already in the storage area then there is a possibility that they couldn’t easily see him. The sight line from the door to the stairs is a long diagonal (they entered via the door near the elevator)(ie very near the Houston wall), there are concrete columns, there are high stacks of boxes, & possibly other infrastructure, & Adams & Styles & Oswald are not tall. Photos of other floors in the TSBD show that it is nigh impossible to see very far on a diagonal if there are stacks of boxes. And Oswald's 8 paces do not cross a window. But we don’t need any of that stuff. Oswald had already passed the 4th floor when Adams & Styles entered the storage area.
In Baker & Truly re-enactments Baker took 90 sec & 75 sec to get up to the 2nd floor after the first shot (equal to 100 sec or 85 sec if after the shots). Baker said that he had been slower than that there 90 sec, so lets call it 100 sec. In which case Baker & Truly enter the storage area of the first floor at say 80 sec. That allows 20 sec to gallop to the elevators, they are sitting at floor 5 & 6 say, the west elevator wont come down probly koz the gate has been left open. So, they then gallop to the stairs & up one floor to the 2nd floor (where they see Oswald).
Adams exited the TSBD to the Houston dock 80 sec after the shots. I wont call it the rear dock koz the Elm St dock (the Elm dock) is sometimes called the rear dock. Baker & Truly entered the storage area at 80 sec. Hence Baker & Truly didn’t see Adams & Styles. In any case their sight-line would have been affected by stacks of books. In any case 2 gals exiting that far doorway would not have worried them & would be forgettable. And there were other workers on the first floor. And Baker & Truly were hell bent on getting to the roof.
It’s a mystery why Baker was at all worried by Oswald, ie on the lowly 2nd floor, the first level that they reached on the way up, with 6 more levels to go after the 2nd (the roof being level 8 ). Had they used an elevator (ie Plan A) Baker would have happily gone straight up to the 7th floor. He wouldn’t have stopped at every floor & taken valuable time to check for snipers. For sure he wouldn’t have stopped the elevator at the 2nd floor, even if he had seen Oswald. The whole sorry saga reminds me of a Monty Python film where the knight slays everyone he meets on the way up a castle tower to save a damsel in distress.
So, where were we, we have Adams & Styles exiting at 80 sec & Baker & Truly entering at 80 sec. There is no problem there at all. That leaves us with one big problem. Why did Oswald stop at the 2nd floor? He was at least 10 sec ahead of Adams & Styles. Had Oswald not stopped he would have been at the front door before Baker & Truly. Hell, it could have been Oswald that volunteered to show Baker the stairs, ie doing a U-turn, & praps going all the way back up with Baker. On the way up it would have been Oswald saying "that man works here".
Oswald had time. But he dug in on the 2nd floor. Why?
Nearly forgot. Praps i should have written this first. Dorothy Garner followed Adams & Styles to the stairs. I think that Garner belatedly decided to follow Adams & Styles down in the elevator. And she saw that Adams & Styles had headed for the back stairs, so she praps decided to follow, instead of taking the front stairs. Anyhow she didn’t go down the back stairs, she looked out the nearby western window (there is no western window in her office), & there sure was lots to see, bedlam, so she watched for we don’t know how long.
She said she saw Baker & Truly gallop past (they would have been 10 ft away). But Baker & Truly make no mention of Garner, certainly Baker didn’t slay her, i mean stick his gun in her ribs. And of course she didn’t see Oswald, or anyone else, Oswald was long gone.
Anyhow, Oswald got to the 2nd floor in 48 sec. Baker & Truly got there in 100 sec.
Why did Oswald stop?
What did Oswald do for 52 sec?
-
Oswald gets to the 2nd floor after 48 sec. He stops. What to do next?
Should he continue down to the first floor?
Should he go to the first floor via the front stairs?
Should he lay low in the lunch room?
His jacket is in the Domino Room.
Uh Oh -- He hears Adams & Styles klomping down the stairs in a real hurry on a mission.
Best to visit the coke machine & hope that whoever it is goes clean past.
They pass. He comes back out. What to do next?
He can't decide. He will be less conspicuous if he takes the front stairs, but he would then have to walk back into & throo the storage area to get his jacket in the Domino Room.
He decides to continue down the back stairs.
He makes a start but then Truly hollers up the elevator shaft, so he goes back up.
Then he hears Baker & Truly galloping up the stairs, & he retreats to the coke machine a second time.
He walks slow & cool.
He would have been better off diving into the lunchroom in a hurry, & laying low, he knows there is no-one in there, but he knows that if seen rushing (by Truly & Co) it will be a sure sign that he is guilty of something.
He nearly makes it, another couple of slow steps & he will be out of sight.
But damn, Baker spots a bit of him throo the glass of the door & says to come back.
Truly says that Oswald works here, & Baker & Truly gallop off.
They get to the 5th floor & take the east elevator to the 7th floor.
Oswald gets a coke to look less guilty & more cool if confronted again. And assassinations go better with coke.
The back stairs are now dangerous. He heads for the front stairs, either forgetting about his jacket or deciding that his jacket is a dead duck.
But just in case more dumb cops are entering along the corridor he goes via the office.
Damn, he meets Jeraldean Reid as she returns to her desk. Mrs Hine is also in the office but she doesn't notice Oswald, or forgets.
Reid in 3 re-enactments took exactly 120 sec to get to her desk, which is about right (ie to meet Oswald).
She says something as they pass & he mumbles something back. Its not a good look. He has no business in the office, unless wanting change for the coke machine. Its not even a short cut to the stairs. Damn. Anyhow no big deal.
He goes down the front stairs & mixes with the growing throng in the lobby near the front door without raising any suspicion.
Someone asks him about a phone.
Ok, things aint so bad, praps he can take a chance & get his jacket from the Domino Room anyhow.
Hmmm – he can get his jacket by going out the front door & down the steps & around & entering via the Houston dock (like he does each morning), & walking 16 paces to the jacket.
Getting caught walking in shouldn’t result in getting bitten by a cop.
So, off he goes, but he gets a little ways up Houston & he sees Officer Barnett on sentry duty at the dock, & Barnett looks vicious.
So, a quick U-turn & back down Houston. Buell Frazier sees him walking south along Houston.
No, the jacket is a dead duck. He decides to get out of there asap, he crosses Houston & then crosses Elm.
Tippit is waiting.
-
Jack E Dougherty was a co-worker of Oswald's.
Dougherty didn’t go out to see JFK, he went back to work, getting stock from the 6th floor & 5th floor.
He didn’t hear Oswald's 2 shots, nor Hickey's shots. And he didn’t see Oswald during those minutes or even during that hour.
He probly didn’t see Oswald koz Dougherty hadnt finished his lunch in the Domino Room untill a little after 12:30.
That’s why he didn’t hear any shots. And that’s why he didn’t see Baker & Truly running up at 12:31.
Dougherty used the elevator, & he heard one shot while he was standing next to the elevators on the 5th floor.
The noise came from directly overhead. That must have been the trapdoor to the roof slamming shut due to the wind, while Baker & Truly were on the roof, they had used a ladder.
Truly said that they reached the roof via the stairs, however Baker said that they used the ladder.
The trapdoor was directly above Dougherty, albeit with the 6th floor & the 7th floor planking tween Dougherty & the trapdoor.
And the slam would have been about 4 minutes after the shots. A number of people on the tops of buildings near the Plaza heard a lone shot about 4 minutes after the other shots.
But i don’t think that Baker & Truly ever mentioned it.
Anyhow with Dougherty for some silly reason continuing to work, on the 5th & 6th floors, Oswald was lucky that Dougherty didn’t ever see him.
What i mean is that Dougherty intended to get up back to work at 12:30 sharp, but his watch was a few minutes out.
Aerials of the present TSBD roof show that the trapdoor is no longer there. There is some kind of external ladder near the new elevator building.
Alltho there are now lots of rectangular gizmos that could easily be trapdoors.
-
So, what is your take on Tippit picking up (or intercepting) Oswald?
The timelines for the Oswald & Tippit saga sure look complicated.
I have been reading some of the postings. I have always been interested in whether Oswald had an escape strategy.
I dont think that he had any help, but where was he going?
He probly needed to do a holdup for cash. And take a bus to mexico. He might have been walking to a bus depot.
U would think that he would have brought a bag of stuff with him so that he did not have to go back to the rooming house.
It was all in effect a suicidal plan. Almost no plan at all. Even if he had a car & lots of cash he had no future unless he had help, which he didn't.
Shooting Tippit was silly. He had no chance after that.
He could have just played cool, & hoped that Tippit didnt find his gun, & that Tippit & Co were not yet looking for a guy called LHO.
Shooting Tippit meant that Oswald had a good plan going, worth shooting for. What plan was that?
If he had no good plan then shooting Tippit doesnt compute.
Oswald did not know that JFK was dead.
Oswald knew that his first shot missed (ricochet off signal arm guy rod)(the west guy rod)(the west side of the west guy rod)(about 9" from the collar).
Oswald knew that his second shot hit (he was probly aiming for JFK)(but mightbe Connally)(likewise for the first shot).
Oswald knew that Hickey had accidentally blown JFK's head open (ok so he did know that JFK was dead).
Oswald could have fired his last bullet, but he didn't. He had decided not to fire even before he saw Hickey kill JFK.
This suggests that his aim was Connally, who was by then out of sight behind JFK (not important).
Oswald knew that Hickey had killed JFK, in which case Oswald was indeed later a patsy.
So why shoot Tippit? Now its murder. Why? What kind of grand plan made shooting Tippit worthwhile, koz now its murder.
If he hadnt shot Tippit would Ruby still have shot Oswald. I suppose that the answer is yes.
Except of course that the Ruby saga had so many what-ifs that could have changed in a drastic way by a butterfly in Brazil.
So, forgetting the Ruby saga, Oswald would have had a trial. And it would have come out that Oswald fired 2 shots, & that he had not killed JFK.
And it would have come out that Hickey accidentally killed JFK.
Oswald would have gotten out of jail in say 1983 (ignoring the Ruby saga), & he would have written a book.
And Hickey would have written a book.
And Tippit would have written a book.
Oswald would today be 81 yrs old, & he could be posting on this forum, about how Tippit was lucky to have arrested him.
But he shot Tippit.
If Ruby hadn't shot Oswald then Oswald would have got the chair, for shooting Tippit.
Dumb patsy.
Actually, if Oswald had not shot Tippit (& if Oswald had shot Tippit), & if Ruby had not shot Oswald, then there would be no assassination forums, they would be accidental homicide forums.
However there might still be conspiracy theory forums.
-
A few pix of the Domino Room. That aint Frankie Kaiser pointing to where he found Oswald's jacket, koz Kaiser when he saw the photo said that the hand was pointing to the wrong place, hence the correct place is left or right of that point. There was some confusion as to whether Kaiser found the jacket a few days after or a few weeks after.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1tpTpPhL/kaiser-finds-jacket-in-domino-room-1.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/02t4GcF2/kaiser-finds-jacket-in-domino-room-2.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pXV7ng06/kaiser-finds-jacket-in-domino-room-4.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jSSbtW0C/kaiser-finds-jacket-in-domino-room-5.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MH5FFDG5/kaiser-finds-jacket-in-domino-room-6.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pXxvcGsf/kaiser-finds-jacket-in-domino-room-7.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dtBYb2fz/kaiser-finds-jacket-in-domino-room-8.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/nz8gjr54/kaiser-finds-jacket-in-domino-room-9.jpg)
-
From the WCR.
................Three employees-- James Jarman, Jr., Harold Norman, and Bonnie Ray Williams--were watching the parade from the fifth floor, directly below the window from which the shots were fired. They rushed to the west windows after the shots were fired and remained there until after they saw Patrolman Baker's white helmet on the fifth floor moving toward the elevator.
374 While they were at the west windows their view of the stairwell was completely blocked by shelves and boxes.
375 This is the period during which Oswald would have descended the stairs................
http://www.patspeer.com/chapter4b%3A%22theso-calledevidence%22
A 12-7-63 Secret Service report on Jarman relates: "He went with Williams and Norman to the west side of the building where they looked out those windows for a few minutes and then went down the back stairway to the first floor. He did not see any police officer on the stairway, but says that
he did see a woman looking out a window on the west side of the fourth floor as they went down...
Jarman estimated that they remained on the fifth floor for about five minutes after the shots, before they started down the stairway." (CD87 p785) And a 12-4-63 affidavit by Harold Norman confirms that after they (Jarman, Norman, and Williams) reached the west side of the building, "We discussed the shots, and where they had come from, and decided we better go down stairs. We walked down the stairs to the first floor and did not see anyone else on the stairway as we went down. From the time of the shots until we started downstairs was about five minutes." (CD7, p783)
The woman looking out the western window would have been Dorothy Garner, who saw Adams & Styles go down the stairs, & saw Baker & Truly go up the stairs shortly after.
-
Employee Franklin (Frankie) Kaiser found Oswald's blue jacket a few weeks after the shooting.
Oswald's departure from building.--Within a minute after Baker and Truly left Oswald in the lunchroom, Mrs. R. A. Reid, clerical supervisor for the Texas School Book Depository, saw him walk through the clerical office on the second floor toward the door leading to the front stairway. Mrs. Reid had watched the parade from the sidewalk in front of the building with Truly and Mr. O. V. Campbell, vice president of the Depository. 385 She testified that she heard three shots which she thought came from the building. 386 She ran inside and up the front stairs into the large open office reserved for clerical employees. As she approached her desk, she saw Oswald. 387 He was walking into the office from the back hallway, carrying a full bottle of Coca-Cola in his hand, 388 presumably purchased after the encounter with Baker and Truly. As Oswald passed Mrs. Reid she said, "Oh, the President has been shot, but maybe they didn't hit him." 389 Oswald mumbled something and walked by. 390 She paid Page 155 no more attention to him. The only exit from the office in the direction Oswald was moving was through the door to the front stairway. 391 (See Commission Exhibit 1118, p. 150.) Mrs. Reid testified that when she saw Oswald, he was wearing a T-shirt and no jacket.
392 When he left home that morning, Marina Oswald, who was still in bed, suggested that he wear a jacket.
393 A blue jacket, later identified by Marina Oswald as her husband's, 394 was subsequently found in the building, 395 apparently left behind by Oswald.
Mrs. Reid believes that she returned to her desk from the street about 2 minutes after the shooting.
396 Reconstructing her movements, Mrs. Reid ran the distance three times and was timed in 2 minutes by stopwatch.
397 The reconstruction was the minimum time.
398 Accordingly, she probably met Oswald at about 12:32, approximately 30-45 seconds after Oswald's lunchroom encounter with Baker and Truly.
After leaving Mrs. Reid in the front office, Oswald could have gone down the stairs and out the front door by 12:33 p.m.
399--3 minutes after the shooting. At that time the building had not yet been sealed off by the police.
https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-mystery-of-ce163
The jacket was allegedly discovered on the first floor of the TSBD inside the Domino room by an employee named Franklin (Frankie) Kaiser. During her interview with the FBI on 4/1/64, Marina Oswald claimed that her husband owned two jackets "one a heavy jacket, blue in color, and another light jacket, gray in color."[1] Page 175 of the Warren report contains the following information:
"Marina Oswald stated that her husband owned only two jackets, one blue and the other gray. The blue jacket was found in the Texas School Book Depository and was identified by Marina Oswald as her husband's." [2]
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNDFKWhC/Photo-naraevid-CE163-2.jpg)
Mr. BALL. Now, did you later find clothing?
Mr. KAISER. I just found the coat there---I didn't even know it was his until somebody told me it was. I thought they were kidding.
Mr. BALL. This is Commission Exhibit 163--do you recognize that blue jacket?
Mr. KAISER. That's the one I found.
Mr. BALL. Where did you find it--tell me first.
Mr. KAISER. It was in the window sill.
Mr. BALL. In what room?
Mr. KAISER. In the domino room.
Mr. BALL. Now, I show you a picture, No. 17, this is marked---does this show the window?
Mr. KAISER. Right down in here.
Mr. BALL. There is a Jacket showing in that window, is that where the jacket was found?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, sir; but it was laying behind this in the window.
Mr. BALL. It wasn't found in the position of the jacket shown in the picture?
Mr. KAISER. No; it sure wasn't.
Mr. BALL. But was it the same window?
Mr. KAISER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And the window sill is shown there too?
Mr. KAISER. Yes; it is.
Mr. BALL. I show you a picture which is marked Exhibit 18, does this show the place where the jacket was found?
Mr. KAISER. Right over in here.
Mr. BALL. Where--put an "X" there---it's in the window sill?
Mr. KAISER. Right.
(Marked diagram with an "X". )
Mr. BALL. There is an Exhibit 17, which shows the corner of the domino room and the window and it is marked as Exhibit B and the picture marked No. 18, which shows the window sill, bearing an "X" placed there by the witness, and is marked as Exhibit "C". Will you initial that "C" please?
Mr. KAISER. ( Initialed instrument as requested. )
-
http://www.patspeer.com/chapter4b%3A%22theso-calledevidence%22
6. What did Dougherty hear if it wasn't a shot?
ANSWER: Well, one possibility is that he heard a sound related to Baker and Truly's running around on the roof, and subsequent descent using the east elevator.
Was it the slamming of the door to the roof?
The exact nature of this door remains a bit of a mystery. But it appears it was some sort of trap door or hatch.
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, I am going to hand you what the court reporter, what the Commission reporter, has marked as Exhibit 507 which purports to be a diagram of the seventh floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building and on that diagram you will see at the top the marks of two elevators and then, what looks to be the south, a stairway marked "Ladder to the roof."
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not this stairway marked "Ladder to the roof" is the stairway that you took to go to the roof?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; it would be.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Here is the top half of Exhibit 507.
And here is a drawing prepared by Roy Rose in March 1964, that was the source for this exhibit. (Thanks to Gary Murr and Bart Kamp for bringing this to my attention.)
Note that the stairway to the roof was indeed blocked off, and that the only way up to the roof was a ladder with 21 risers. Such a ladder does not stop at a door, but at a hatch.
Something like this...
There is a photo of the roof on the Baylor University website, from its Jack White collection, that supports my "hatch" theory, moreover. (Mucho thanks to Robin Unger for bringing this to my attention.)
Here it is.
The County Records Building, sitting on the southeast corner of Houston and Elm, is in the background, on the right side of the photo.
The white building on the left side of the photo is a small building which in 1963 sat atop the elevator shaft. The small shack in front of it then would have to have covered the outlet to the roof from the "Ladder to Roof" on the seventh floor diagram.
There wasn't enough room to stand up in this shack. It appears from this, then, that the outlet onto the roof was in the form of a hatch...
that would have made a loud noise should it have been slammed shut.
It should be noted here, while we're at it, that at least one other Dealey Plaza witness heard a loud sound around the time Baker and Truly descended from the roof. This was J.C. Price, an employee of the General Services Administration. Price watched the motorcade from the roof of the U.S. Post Office Terminal Annex Building. This was on the south side of the Plaza, and Price's recollections reflect that he was viewing the motorcade from some distance. On the day of the shooting, he presented the Dallas County Sheriff's Department with a signed statement. He asserted: "I was on the roof of the Terminal Annex Bldg on the NE corner when the presidential motorcade came down Main to Houston, North on Houston and then West on Elm. The cars had proceeded west on Elm and was just a short distance from the Triple underpass, when I saw Gov. Connally slump over. I did not see the president as his car had gotten out of my view under the underpass.
There was a volley of shots, and then much later, maybe as much as five minutes later, another one."
Now ain't that something. The only witness who'd watched the motorcade from the roof of a building to make a statement was also the only witness to claim he'd heard a loud sound around the time Baker and Truly came down from the roof of the depository building. The Terminal Annex Building is directly across the Plaza from the school book depository. It's about the same height... It's near certain a loud sound on the roof of the depository would be heard across the way. And was...
In any event, it seems probable that the sound heard by Dougherty came from the roof of the building as Baker and Truly returned to the seventh floor to take the east elevator down.
The sound Dougherty heard, after all, came from above him, not from the southeast windows of the fifth floor, off to his side. These were open windows but a few feet below an open window through which a high-powered rifle had supposedly fired three shots. Should shots have been fired while he was on the fifth floor, he would have heard these shots from the sniper's nest through these windows. That only makes sense.
So, okay, there's another one. Why wasn't this point ever brought up by Ball? Or Belin? And why wasn't this tested?
The Police Officer on duty on the roof on a building on the other side of Houston St also reported hearing a lone shot about 4 minutes after the other shots.
It would have been the trapdoor/hatch (at the top of the ladder) slamming shut.
Or it might have been a door in that there triangular penthouse over the exit of the stairs. However i think there was no such door, it too was a hatch.
Truly said that Baker & Truly used the stairs. Baker said they used the ladder. I think Truly meant the ladder.
(https://i.postimg.cc/R0Q0CgM9/hatch-on-roof-Screen-Shot-2017-10-13-at-8-29-31-AM.png)
There is a ramp at that there dock door. Shelly & Lovelady entered there. They (one ovem) mentioned a ramp.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DyH0xWjV/tsbd-loading-docks-roof-Screen-Shot-2017-10-14-at-12-11-31-AM.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wMBMGDYz/typical-roof-access-hatch.jpg)
-
Otis Williams said that after the shots he entered the TSBD almost immediately & took the back stairs to the 4th floor & watched the happenings near the triple underpass.
And then went back down to his office on the 2nd floor & rang his wife.
That aint possible.
Williams would have met Adams & Styles coming down the stairs from the 4th floor. He makes no mention of them & they make no mention of him.
And he might have met Oswald coming down the stairs say 10 sec ahead of Adams & Styles.
And he would have shared the window with Dorothy Garner who had been behind Adams & Styles. But he makes no mention of her & she makes no mention of him.
And he would have seen Baker & Truly gallop past he & Garner. But Williams doesnt mention B & T & they dont mention W & G.
We can explain why Williams didn't see Oswald, Oswald could have heard Williams coming up the stairs & Oswald could have dived into the lunch room.
But we don’t have to, Williams didn’t go up the back stairs immediately, he went to his office first.
We can be sure that Williams went up the front stairs to his office for a while before going up to the 4th floor.
Thusly he didn’t go up the back stairs untill Oswald & Adams & Styles & Baker & Truly were well gone.
Oswald passed Williams while Williams was already in his office, & Williams did not notice Oswald walking past (its a big office), or forgot.
And Oswald went down the front stairs almost 2 min after Williams went up the front stairs.
Or, Williams came up in the front elevator while Oswald was going down the front stairs.
Or, Oswald went down the front stairs while Williams went up the front stairs & Williams forgot.
Or, Oswald went down the front stairs before Williams entered the TSBD, & Williams didn't notice Oswald passing by, or forgot.
http://www.patspeer.com/chapter4b%3A%22theso-calledevidence%22
…………. The second of these witnesses was Otis Williams. Williams made a number of statements suggesting he was on the back stairs within a few seconds of Adams and Styles--but did not see Oswald. So, of course, he was never called before the Warren Commission.
(11-24-63 FBI report, CD5 p.64) “He thought (the) blasts came from the location of the court house. He did not look up and immediately went back into the building into his office on the second floor.” (2-18-64 statement by Williams included in a report of the Dallas Police Department, box 3, folder 19, file 20 of the Dallas JFK Archive) "The president's car had gotten out of Mr. Williams' view when he heard the shots. Mr. Williams then came back into the building, and went to his office on the second floor. He then went to the fourth floor after hearing that the President had been shot. He used the stairway to go to the fourth floor, but stated that he did not see anyone on the stairway." (3-19-64 statement to the FBI, 22H683) “I thought these blasts or shots came from the direction of the viaduct which crosses Elm Street. I did not then know that President Kennedy had been shot. I remained momentarily on the steps and then returned inside the building.”
Williams was finally interviewed, however, by researcher Larry Sneed.
(No More Silence p.116-120, published 1998) (On the shots) “I thought it came from the underpass. I entered the building immediately, climbed up the stairs back where the warehouse elevator was which led to the sixth floor and went up to the fourth floor, which was the first one I could see from to see the underpass. After I got up there and saw that nothing was going on on the underpass, I turned around and came back down to the office and called my wife. Soon, while we were talking, people came in, officers rushed in, and I had to get off the phone... I could have gone down the steps while Oswald came down, but he came down on the elevator. Anyway, I walked down the steps but didn't see him or anything.”……………..
-
The testimony of Geneva L. Hine was taken at 2:45 p.m., on April 7, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Messrs. Joseph A. Ball and Samuel A. Stern, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. BALL. Please stand up and hold up your right hand. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give the Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Miss HINE. I do.
Mr. BALL. Will you state your name, please?
Miss HINE. Geneva L. Hine.
Mr. BALL. Where do you live.
Miss HINE. 2305 Oakdale Road in Dallas.
Mr. BALL. Can you tell me something about yourself; where you were born and raised, and educated and what kind of work you have done.
Miss. HINE. I was born and raised in Martinsville, Ind., and I graduated from elementary and junior high and high school at that same town. I attended the Ball State Teachers' College in Muncie, Ind., and I attended Metropolitan Bible Institute in Suffern, N.Y., and I received my Bachelor of Science theology degree from Assembly of God College in Waxahachie, Tex.
Mr. BALL. What did you do after that?
Miss HINE. Oh, I have always worked as a one-girl office girl until the job I have now.
Mr. BALL. When did you go to work at the Texas School Book Depository?
Miss HINE. In December 1956.
Mr. BALL. What kind of work do you do there?
Miss HINE. I have the credit desk.
Mr. BALL. Now, in November, November 22, 1963, where was your desk; in what part of the building?
Miss HINE. My desk was on the second floor, the inside wall just along by the corridor.
Mr. BALL. Did you spend most of your time at your desk?
Miss HINE. At that time?
Mr. BALL. Yes; at that time.
Miss HINE. No, sir; the girls were gone and they wanted to go out and see.
Mr. BALL. I mean did you spend most of your time in your work--it was a desk job?
Miss HINE. Yes; that's right.
Mr. BALL. Did you go in the other floors of the building any?
Miss HINE. Yes; sir; as my duties necessitated I did.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever know a fellow named Lee Harvey Oswald?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. When did you first meet him?
Miss HINE. I never met him to know his name but I saw him every day.
Mr. BALL. Where did you see him?
Miss HINE. Downstairs in the warehouse or stockroom whichever you want to call it.
Mr. BALL. The first floor?
Miss HINE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you see him on any other floors?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I saw him on the second floor about noontime almost
every day. He would come in and ask for change, for a dime or quarter.
Mr. BALL. Did you see him use any part of the second floor?
Miss HINE. No.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him spend the dime to buy anything with it?
Miss HINE. No, sir; the coke machine isn't in our room and I wouldn't have seen it.
Mr. BALL. Where is the coke machine?
Miss HINE. Out in the little lunchroom back of our office.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever speak to Oswald ?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did he ever speak to you?
Miss HINE. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. He never replied to you?
Miss HINE. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Would you say he was unfriendly?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I would.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him smile or laugh?
Miss HINE. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. What kind of an expression did he have on his face most of the time?
Miss HINE. I describe it as being stoic.
Mr. BALL. That's a pretty good description if he doesn't smile.
Miss HINE. It was just----
Mr. BALL. Did you ever mention this to any of the people around there about Oswald?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I mentioned it to Mr. Shelley.
Mr. BALL. What did you tell him ?
Miss HINE. One day I said to Mr. Shelley, "Who is that queer duck you have working down here" and I said that Just as a matter of slang because I've known Mr. Shelley for a long time and I was just talking to him, you see, and usually, all the boys that work down there speak to me because I have to go down here to pick up the little "comp" or gift slips on my desk. Every time I went by him I would speak to him, say "Good morning" and he would never catch or meet my gaze so I just made that remark to Mr. Shelley because I had spoken to him so many times and he never answered.
Mr. BALL. What did Shelley say?
Miss HINE. He said that was just his way.
Mr. BALL. On the 22d of November 1963, did you know that there was to be a motorcade or parade come by your building?
Miss HINE. Oh, yes, sir.
Mr. BALL How did 'you find that out?
Miss HINE. Sir, I don't remember. I probably heard over the news but I cannot remember.
Mr. BALL. You were just aware of the fact?
Miss HINE. Yes; I knew it and the girls were discussing it in the office that morning. Many of them, probably six, had not seen the President close. You see, I had seen him on two different occasions and I had been very close to him and so they were lamenting that they couldn't go out so I spoke up and said "I will be glad to answer the telephone so you girls may go out and see the motorcade" and I bad previously answered the telephone when we were in the other building before we moved in this building, so they were delighted and I thought nothing about it.
Mr. BALL. Did they all go out?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; everyone went out.
Mr. BALL. Was there anyone left in the office part of the building on that second floor office?
Miss HINE. Only Mr. Williams and myself and he stayed with me because he was working on his desk until he thought that the motorcade was about there.
Mr. BALL. Then he went out?
Miss HINE. When he thought it was about there he said "I think I will go out for 5 minutes."
Mr. BALL. What is his name?
Miss HINE. Otis N. Williams.
Mr. BALL. He works in the office, too?
Miss HINE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you have to change your desk over to another desk?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; to the middle desk on the front row.
Mr. BALL. Was there a switchboard?
Miss HINE. No, sir; we have a telephone with three incoming lines, then we have the warehouse line and we have an intercom system.
Mr. BALL. You don't have a switchboard?
Miss HINE. Not now; we did in the other building.
Mr. BALL. Were you alone then at this time?
Miss HINE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you stay at your desk?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir: I was alone until the lights all went out and the phones became dead because the motorcade was coming near us and no one was calling so I got up and thought I could see it from the east window in our office.
Here Hine did not necessarily mean that the office lights went out, ie that there was a power outage.
Mr. BALL. Did you go to the window?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you look out?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you see?
Miss HINE. I saw the escort car come first up the middle of Houston Street.
Mr. BALL. Going north on Houston Street?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; going north on Houston Street. I saw it turn left and I saw the President's car coming and I saw the President and saw him waving his hand in greeting up in the air and I saw his wife and I saw him turn the corner and after he turned the corner I looked and I saw the next car coming Just at the instant I saw the next car coming up was when I heard the shots.
So, the first shot was when the next car came, ie turned. The next car was Queen Mary. Obviously Hine didn't mean Queen Mary, she meant the LBJ limo. Obviously the first shot was when the JFK limo was a little past the signals. The first shot ricocheted offa the signal arm.
Mr. BALL. How many did you hear?
Miss HINE. Three.
Mr. BALL Could you tell where the shots were coming from?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they came from inside the building.
Mr. BALL. How do you know that?
Miss HINE. Because the building vibrated from the result of the explosion coming in.
Mr. BALL. It appeared to you that the shots came from the building?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you know they were shots at the time?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they sounded almost like cannon shots they were so terrific.
Mr. BALL. That is when you were at the window, is that right?
Miss HINE Yes, sir; that is when I was at the window, because the next car, you see, was coming up and turning and I looked. Of course I looked when I heard the shots. I just stood there and saw people running to the east up Elm Street. I saw people running; I saw people falling down, you know,
lying down on the sidewalk.
Mr. BALL. That was on Houston Street?
Miss HINE. No, sir; Elm.
Mr. BALL. You could see could you see any part of Elm?
Miss HINE. East, yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You could see east on Elm?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I could see east on Elm. I saw them run across east on Elm away from where his car had gone and my first thought was if I could only see what happened, so I went out our front door into the foyer.
Mr. BALL. You mean the front door to the office?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. That opens on---
Miss HINE. The foyer, little hall, and---
Mr. BALL. Steps lead down?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; but there is a door before the steps and the elevator is to my left and I went past the hall that goes to my right and I knocked on the door of Lyons and Carnahan; that's a publishing company.
Mr. BALL. What did you do then?
Miss HINE. I tried the door, sir, and it was locked and I couldn't get in and I called, "Me, please let me in," because she's the girl that had that office, Mrs. Lee Watley, and she didn't answer. I don't know if she was there or not, then I left her door. I retraced my steps back to where the hall turns to my left and went down it to Southwestern Publishing Co.'s door and I tried their door and the reason for this was because those windows face out.
Mr. BALL. On to Elm?
Miss HINE. Yes; and on to the triple underpass.
Mr. BALL. I See.
Miss HINE. And there was a girl in there talking on the telephone and I could hear her but she didn't answer the door.
Mr. BALL. Was the door locked?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. That was which company?
Miss HINE. Southwestern Publishing Co.
Mr. BALL. Did you call to her?
Miss HINE. I called and called and shook the door and she didn't answer me because she was talking on the telephone; I could hear her. They have a little curtain up and I could see her form through the curtains. I could see her talking and I knew that's what she was doing and then I turned and went through the back hall and came through the back door.
Mr. BALL. Of your office, the second floor office?
Miss HINE. Yes; and I went straight up to the desk because the telephones were beginning to wink; outside calls were beginning to come in.
Mr. BALL. Did they come in rapidly?
Miss HINE They did come in rapidly.
Mr. BALL. When you came back in did you see Mrs. Reid?
Miss HINE. No, sir; I don't believe there was a soul in the office when I came back in right then.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anybody else go in through there?
Miss HINE. No, sir; after I answered the telephone then there was about four or five people that came in.
Mr. BALL. Was there anybody in that room when you came back in and went to the telephone?
Miss HINE. No, sir; not to my knowledge.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Mrs. Reid come back in?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I think I felt sure that I did. I thought that there were five or six that came in together. I thought she was one of those.
Mr. BALL. Mrs. Reid told us she came in alone and when she came in she didn't see anybody there.
Miss HINE. Well, it could be that she did, sir. I was talking on the phones and then came the policemen and then came the press. Everybody was wanting an outside line and then our vice president came in and he said "The next one that was clear, I have to have it and so I was busy with the phone.
Mr. BALL. From the time you walked into the room you became immediately busy with the phone?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; sure was.
Mr. BALL. Did you see Oswald come in?
Miss HINE. My back would have been to the door he was supposed to have come in at.
Mr. BALL. Were you facing the door he is supposed to have left by?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you recall seeing him?
Miss HINE. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you have any definite recollection of Mrs. Reid coming in?
Miss HINE. No, sir; I only saw four or five people that came by and they all came and were all talking about how terrible it was.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember their names?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Who were they?
Miss HINE. Mr. Williams, Mr. Molina (spelling), Miss Martha Reid, Mrs. Reid, Mrs. Sarah Stanton, and Mr. Campbell; that's all I recall, sir.
Mr. BALL. Miss Hine, this will be written up and it will be submitted for your signature if you wish, or you can waive signature right now; which do you prefer? Do you have any choice?
Miss HINE. Well, I would prefer to see it.
Mr. BALL. Prefer to see it, all right, then this young lady will inform you to come down, read it, look it over and sign it.
Miss HINE. Okay.
Mr. BALL. Thanks very much for coming in.
-
Ok, Geneva Hine might be a problem for our timeline, lemmeseenow.
The phone lights die out. [The time is now say -1:00]
She walks to an eastern window. [-0:50]
She sees the lead car coming along Houston St. [-0:30]
She sees the JFK limo turn into Elm St. [-0:05]
She hears a shot. [0:01]
She hears 2 more shots. [0:11].
She sees gawkers running & hitting the deck in Elm St (east end)(east end of east end). [0:20]
She walks south into the front Foyer to a locked office door & knocks, & yells, but no-one answers. [0:25]
She walks north up the corridor & then west along the corridor to another locked office door, & shakes the door & yells & yells, but is ignored. [0:40]
She walks west along the corridor & then north along the corridor, & opens a door to the lunchroom entrance hall, & enters the hall. [0:45]
She turns & opens a door into the north west corner of her office, & enters the office. [0:48]
Oswald exits the stairs & sees the door to the office closing behind Hine. [0:48]
Phew. That was a close shave. But the timeline works ok. Just.
Hmmmmm. Later, at 1:55, ie at 115 sec, Oswald enters that there same door, into that there office, instead of using the corridor.
We know that he enters at 115 sec koz he meets Jeraldean Reid at 118 sec, just before she gets to her desk at 120 sec.
Reid did 3 re-enactments of her traject from Elm St after the shots, & they all came to 120 sec.
Anyhow, i dont think that Oswald would have entered that there office if he knew for sure that someone was in there.
In which case Hine entered her office at 0:47, & Oswald didn't see her enter.
Re Hine versus Oswald, if u prefer, Hine entered her office at 0:48, & Oswald entered the 2nd floor at 0:49.
Yep, anyhow, one way or the other, Oswald was 1 sec later than Hine.
Hine walks to the phone desk. The 3 phone lines are going bezerk. [0:55]
Oswald enters Hine's office [1:55] & passes Jackalean Reid. [1:58]
Oswald walks past Hine & out of her office into the 2nd floor Lobby. [2:05]
Hine duznt notice Oswald, she is juggling the phones.
Now, if Oswald got to the 2nd floor at 48 sec, & if Baker & Truly got to the 2nd floor at 100 sec, then that means that Oswald dillyd for 52 sec.
And if he entered the office at 155 sec, then that means that he dallyd for another 55 sec, which adds to 107 sec of dillydally near the coke machine.
Anyhow it all turned out ok.
Except that he lost his jacket.
And a Carcano.
And one bullet.
And a brown paper bag.
And some curtain rods.
Which leaves us with one obvious question.
Where is Waxahachie?
Waxahachie might make a good Sister City for Wagga Wagga.
-
In that pix there duznt look to be a door in that penthouse.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NjqK9VYK/tsbd-roof-stair-door-Dealey-Plaza-Dallas-Texas-1977-02.png)
That penthouse was originally the support for the water tank. It wasn't a house for the stairs.
Truly said there was a door. I reckon that there was no door, there was a hatch or trapdoor at the top of the stairs.
Plus there was a hatch/trapdoor at the top of the ladder near the rear elevators.
And the stairway from the 7th floor to the roof was blocked, the wooden stairs must have been rotten.
They might have been the original timber, that had been sitting under the dripping tank for years.
Anyhow, a door or hatch or trapdoor slammed shut in the wind 4 minutes after the shots, while Baker & Truly were on the roof.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RhSjDvcW/tsbd-water-tank-Dealey-Plaza-Under-Construction-1935.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/NGPKkF82/tsbd-water-tank-beam-Dealey-Plaza-Dallas-Texas-11-24-63-05.jpg)
-
Anyhow, a door or hatch or trapdoor slammed shut in the wind 4 minutes after the shots, while Baker & Truly were on the roof.
You started well enough with a tentative speculation ("one possibility is that he heard a sound related to Baker and Truly's running around on the roof, and subsequent descent using the east elevator. Was it the slamming of the door to the roof?") but now you magically convert it into a confident statement of fact ("Anyway, a door or hatch or trapdoor slammed shut").
-
So, what is your take on Tippit picking up (or intercepting) Oswald?
Reply 1--- Getting caught walking in shouldn’t result in getting bitten by a cop. No, the jacket is a dead duck... He decides to get out of there asap ...Tippit is waiting.
Code? Something about they were going duck hunting and J D had his coat and they had to leave in a hurry or he would bite Oswald. I don't know...I got lost too.
-
You started well enough with a tentative speculation ("one possibility is that he heard a sound related to Baker and Truly's running around on the roof, and subsequent descent using the east elevator. Was it the slamming of the door to the roof?") but now you magically convert it into a confident statement of fact ("Anyway, a door or hatch or trapdoor slammed shut").
Re "possibility" here i was quoting i think pat speer or someone else quoting pat speer.
Yes & of course my own confident statement should have had an "i reckon that" in there somewhere. This must be the first time i have ever left out an "i reckon" & i got bitten.
But i am pretty sure. We have Dougherty. And Price. And a cop (whose name i can't remember) on the opposite rooftop (i think he said 4 minutes after the shots).
And no-one seemed to hear at ground level.
And the pigeons hadn't yet returned. Mightbe they never did return.
And on a different subject i have edited my older postings to erase mention of a power outage, until i see proof of an outage.
-
Reply 1---Code? Something about they were going duck hunting and J D had his coat and they had to leave in a hurry or he would bite Oswald. I don't know...I got lost too.
I woz trying to make my publisher happy.
-
Ok, Geneva Hine might be a problem for our timeline, lemmeseenow.
The phone lights die out. [The time is now say -1:00]
She walks to an eastern window. [-0:50]
She sees the lead car coming along Houston St. [-0:30]
She sees the JFK limo turn into Elm St. [-0:05]
She hears a shot. [0:01]
She hears 2 more shots. [0:11].
She sees gawkers running & hitting the deck in Elm St (east end)(east end of east end). [0:20]
She walks south into the front Foyer to a locked office door & knocks, & yells, but no-one answers. [0:25]
She walks north up the corridor & then west along the corridor to another locked office door, & shakes the door & yells & yells, but is ignored. [0:40]
She walks west along the corridor & then north along the corridor, & opens a door to the lunchroom entrance hall, & enters the hall. [0:45]
She turns & opens a door into the north west corner of her office, & enters the office. [0:48]
Oswald exits the stairs & sees the door to the office closing behind Hine. [0:48]
Phew. That was a close shave. But the timeline works ok. Just.
Hmmmmm. Later, at 1:55, ie at 115 sec, Oswald enters that there same door, into that there office, instead of using the corridor.
We know that he enters at 115 sec koz he meets Jeraldean Reid at 118 sec, just before she gets to her desk at 120 sec.
Reid did 3 re-enactments of her traject from Elm St after the shots, & they all came to 120 sec.
Anyhow, i dont think that Oswald would have entered that there office if he knew for sure that someone was in there.
In which case Hine entered her office at 0:47, & Oswald didn't see her enter.
Re Hine versus Oswald, if u prefer, Hine entered her office at 0:48, & Oswald entered the 2nd floor at 0:49.
Yep, anyhow, one way or the other, Oswald was 1 sec later than Hine.
Hine walks to the phone desk. The 3 phone lines are going bezerk. [0:55]
Oswald enters Hine's office [1:55] & passes Jackalean Reid. [1:58]
Oswald walks past Hine & out of her office into the 2nd floor Lobby. [2:05]
Hine duznt notice Oswald, she is juggling the phones.
Now, if Oswald got to the 2nd floor at 48 sec, & if Baker & Truly got to the 2nd floor at 100 sec, then that means that Oswald dillyd for 52 sec.
And if he entered the office at 155 sec, then that means that he dallyd for another 55 sec, which adds to 107 sec of dillydally near the coke machine.
Anyhow it all turned out ok.
Except that he lost his jacket.
And a Carcano.
And one bullet.
And a brown paper bag.
And some curtain rods.
Which leaves us with one obvious question.
Where is Waxahachie?
Waxahachie might make a good Sister City for Wagga Wagga.
The door to Hines' office is next to the lunch room door.
Oswald entered that office door less than a minute after Hines.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5NHRtJBc/hine-2nd-floor.png)
-
Oswald gets to the 2nd floor after 48 sec. He stops. What to do next?
Should he continue down to the first floor?
Should he go to the first floor via the front stairs?
Should he lay low in the lunch room?
His jacket is in the Domino Room.
Uh Oh -- He hears Adams & Styles klomping down the stairs in a real hurry on a mission.
Best to visit the coke machine & hope that whoever it is goes clean past.
They pass. He comes back out. What to do next?
He can't decide. He will be less conspicuous if he takes the front stairs, but he would then have to walk back into & throo the storage area to get his jacket in the Domino Room.
He decides to continue down the back stairs.
He makes a start but then Truly hollers up the elevator shaft, so he goes back up.
Then he hears Baker & Truly galloping up the stairs, & he retreats to the coke machine a second time.
He walks slow & cool.
He would have been better off diving into the lunchroom in a hurry, & laying low, he knows there is no-one in there, but he knows that if seen rushing (by Truly & Co) it will be a sure sign that he is guilty of something.
He nearly makes it, another couple of slow steps & he will be out of sight.
But damn, Baker spots a bit of him throo the glass of the door & says to come back.
Truly says that Oswald works here, & Baker & Truly gallop off.
They get to the 5th floor & take the east elevator to the 7th floor.
Oswald gets a coke to look less guilty & more cool if confronted again. And assassinations go better with coke.
The back stairs are now dangerous. He heads for the front stairs, either forgetting about his jacket or deciding that his jacket is a dead duck.
But just in case more dumb cops are entering along the corridor he goes via the office.
Damn, he meets Jeraldean Reid as she returns to her desk. Mrs Hine is also in the office but she doesn't notice Oswald, or forgets.
Reid in 3 re-enactments took exactly 120 sec to get to her desk, which is about right (ie to meet Oswald).
She says something as they pass & he mumbles something back. Its not a good look. He has no business in the office, unless wanting change for the coke machine. Its not even a short cut to the stairs. Damn. Anyhow no big deal.
He goes down the front stairs & mixes with the growing throng in the lobby near the front door without raising any suspicion.
Someone asks him about a phone.
Ok, things aint so bad, praps he can take a chance & get his jacket from the Domino Room anyhow.
Hmmm – he can get his jacket by going out the front door & down the steps & around & entering via the Houston dock (like he does each morning), & walking 16 paces to the jacket.
Getting caught walking in shouldn’t result in getting bitten by a cop.
So, off he goes, but he gets a little ways up Houston & he sees Officer Barnett on sentry duty at the dock, & Barnett looks vicious.
So, a quick U-turn & back down Houston. Buell Frazier sees him walking south along Houston.
No, the jacket is a dead duck. He decides to get out of there asap, he crosses Houston & then crosses Elm.
Tippit is waiting.
Nice work.
-
Why do you believe it's implausible that Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK?
-
It is impossible that Oswald fired the Z313 headshot.
-
It is impossible that Oswald fired the Z313 headshot.
Why?