JFK Assassination Forum
The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Charles Collins on April 01, 2019, 03:53:38 PM
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Years ago there was a thread about the girl in blue that is visible in at least one film as the motorcade passed in front of the TSBD building. She was standing on top of the wall and waving at the President. She was identified and actually participated here on this forum and shared her experience with us. I was able to let her know that it appears LHO walked right by their car (which was parked on Elm) right about the time she indicated she and her mother walked back to their car to leave. So it was possible that they saw LHO leaving the scene and never knew it. And if I remember correctly, she was in the process of writing a book.
If anyone remembers her name or knows whether her book is available I sure would like to know. Thanks.
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Years ago there was a thread about the girl in blue that is visible in at least one film as the motorcade passed in front of the TSBD building. She was standing on top of the wall and waving at the President. She was identified and actually participated here on this forum and shared her experience with us. I was able to let her know that it appears LHO walked right by their car (which was parked on Elm) right about the time she indicated she and her mother walked back to their car to leave. So it was possible that they saw LHO leaving the scene and never knew it. And if I remember correctly, she was in the process of writing a book.
If anyone remembers her name or knows whether her book is available I sure would like to know. Thanks.
Toni Glover
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Gallery/Hughes%20Gallery/hughes_crop_small.jpg)
https://www.mcall.com/news/nation-world/mc-girl-in-blue-remembers-jfk-assassination-20131118-story.html
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Toni Glover
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Gallery/Hughes%20Gallery/hughes_crop_small.jpg)
Thanks Steve, I was thinking to myself it might be Terri and the last name starts with a G.
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Thanks Steve, I was thinking to myself it might be Terri and the last name starts with a G.
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Toni Glover
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Gallery/Hughes%20Gallery/hughes_crop_small.jpg)
https://www.mcall.com/news/nation-world/mc-girl-in-blue-remembers-jfk-assassination-20131118-story.html
Very good article by mcall. 😎
Her memory of the sounds of the gunshots is better defined in that article than I remembered. I sometimes get emotional thinking about the tragedy. And that article definitely triggers the emotions.
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Very good article by mcall. 😎
Her memory of the sounds of the gunshots is better defined in that article than I remembered. I sometimes get emotional thinking about the tragedy. And that article definitely triggers the emotions.
I had a few conversations with her. I specifically wanted to know if she had a camera and she answered that she did not . Her description of the immediate aftermath of the head shot is quite graphic as one would expect.
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I had a few conversations with her. I specifically wanted to know if she had a camera and she answered that she did not . Her description of the immediate aftermath of the head shot is quite graphic as one would expect.
Yes, she is one of the best eyewitnesses I have encountered. I sure am glad that she decided to come forward and share her experience.
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It appears to me that Toni Glover has not yet published her book. But she did participate in the oral history project at the sixth floor museum. Has anyone here checked her interview out? Please let us know. Thanks
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I had an email dialogue with Ms. Glover several years ago and asked her specific questions about that day. She was very credible.
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I had an email dialogue with Ms. Glover several years ago and asked her specific questions about that day. She was very credible.
Yes, I agree. The comments she made here were too. Was all that lost when the forum was reworked and we all had to re-register?
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It’s been a long time since I posted on this forum. 1. Book actually finishing up. Look for “Being There: The girl in Blue”. It has as much detail as I could remember. And remember, memory is a bitch.
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Just reading through the Glover article that was done shortly before the 50th Anniversary of the assassination. That article reflects poorly on Sixth Floor Museum "Curator" Gary Mack. Glover goes to Curator Gary Mack "around 1995". 30+ yrs after the assassination, tells him where she was standing, the Blue she was wearing, and Mack and her begin combing through assassination films & photos trying to locate her? The 1st film they viewed together she did Not appear in? Mack should have known right off the top of his head the films/photos that captured the area of that stone pedestal she said she was standing atop. 30+ yrs after the fact is a very long time. How can THE Curator of a JFK Museum not know the visual evidence connected to the assassination like the back of his hand? The "Men Who Killed Kennedy" was shown in 1988, and Oliver Stone's "JFK" came out in late 1991. We all know the immense scrutiny that these presentations drew to the JFK Assassination. Yet, here "around 1995", we have the Curator of the Sixth Floor Museum Not being familiar with the JFK Assassination visual evidence when an assassination eyewitness walks in and presents herself and her position inside Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63? The Curator's lack of knowledge/depth makes the Sixth Floor Museum look like a House Of Mirrors.
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It’s been a long time since I posted on this forum. 1. Book actually finishing up. Look for “Being There: The girl in Blue”. It has as much detail as I could remember. And remember, memory is a
Thanks for the heads up. Looking forward to your book! Please let us know when it becomes available and where to find it!
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Don't be too hard on Gary Mack. He only showed one or two videos before getting to the Bell film, and both showed the corner of Elm and Houston. I went to the museum in 1995, chickened out, and left. Came back again in 1999 before I got my PhD and moved to Pennsylvania. That's when I spent time with Gary. Bob ? (I don't know his last name) did the first "oral history."
I found some differences between my first oral history and the latest interview. First oral history "I could only see grey burst from his head. I couldn't see blood, but it sparkled in the sunshine."
Last interview. "I could only see grey blast out of his head. I couldn't see red blood or any sparkles." I'm sure there are many more. To that problem I say, "memory is a bitch." It comes and goes. The human brain just doesn't work like a computer.
My favorite description of memory comes from Mary Carr.
"Memory is a pin ball in a machine.
It ricochets between image, idea,
fragments of scenes, stories you’ve heard.
Then the machine goes tilt
and everything stops."
So forgive witnesses whose 'story' changes from time to time. We do the best we can. It was 62 years ago.
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Don't be too hard on Gary Mack. He only showed one or two videos before getting to the Bell film, and both showed the corner of Elm and Houston. I went to the museum in 1995, chickened out, and left. Came back again in 1999 before I got my PhD and moved to Pennsylvania. That's when I spent time with Gary. Bob ? (I don't know his last name) did the first "oral history."
I found some differences between my first oral history and the latest interview. First oral history "I could only see grey burst from his head. I couldn't see blood, but it sparkled in the sunshine."
Last interview. "I could only see grey blast out of his head. I couldn't see red blood or any sparkles." I'm sure there are many more. To that problem I say, "memory is a As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day? It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair. His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate. Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare. There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.'." It comes and goes. The human brain just doesn't work like a computer.
My favorite description of memory comes from Mary Carr.
"Memory is a pin ball in a machine.
It ricochets between image, idea,
fragments of scenes, stories you’ve heard.
Then the machine goes tilt
and everything stops."
So forgive witnesses whose 'story' changes from time to time. We do the best we can. It was 62 years ago.
A prime example of a fading memory is that of Karen Scranton ne Westbrook, who was standing on Elm Street with three of her TSBD / South-West Publishing Company colleagues, all of whom were wearing headscarves that day (hers was light blue). Of the four young women in her group in the Zapruder film, she is standing nearest the TSBD. She is tall and thin and wearing a dark-blue dress or coat. She is hard to make out in the film because she is partly obscured and because her dark clothing blends in with that of the woman standing to her left. During an interview with Stephen Fagin in 2017, she mistook medium-blue-headscarf-wearing Sharon Simmons (who was standing nearest the Stemmons Freeway sign in Zapruder -- some fifteen feet from Westbrook) for herself, and she mistook strawberry-blond Gloria Holt for Westbrook's own colleague and friend, large, tall, red-haired Gloria Calvery (who happened to be wearing a black or dark blue headscarf and blouse that day).
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Toni Glover
(https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Gallery/Hughes%20Gallery/hughes_crop_small.jpg)
https://www.mcall.com/news/nation-world/mc-girl-in-blue-remembers-jfk-assassination-20131118-story.html
this does get interesting. thank you for your time, Toni+
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The book, The Girl in Blue, is published by Pegasus Books. It is in pre-order. Release date April 2027.
It turned out better than
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Yes, she is one of the best eyewitnesses I have encountered. I sure am glad that she decided to come forward and share her experience.
I have to confess, I had never heard of this woman until reading this thread. I appreciate it when a witness expresses ambiguity regarding something she is unsure of, which is the first shot.
For some reason, that first shot seemed to have a different sound than the succeeding shots which might explain why many didn't recognize it as the sound of a gunshot. Some have suggested the first shot was fired with the rifle muzzle inside the building instead of extended out of the window as it was for the last two shots. My own belief is the roar of four motorcycles accelerating out of the sharp turn had a lot to do with partially muffling that first shot. Her account is consistent with the first shot missing and the next two hitting JFK.
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I have to confess, I had never heard of this woman until reading this thread. I appreciate it when a witness expresses ambiguity regarding something she is unsure of, which is the first shot.
For some reason, that first shot seemed to have a different sound than the succeeding shots which might explain why many didn't recognize it as the sound of a gunshot. Some have suggested the first shot was fired with the rifle muzzle inside the building instead of extended out of the window as it was for the last two shots. My own belief is the roar of four motorcycles accelerating out of the sharp turn had a lot to do with partially muffling that first shot. Her account is consistent with the first shot missing and the next two hitting JFK.
All of us have no idea regarding the loudness of the DPD Motorcycles in the motorcade. I am Not aware of witnesses claiming of having to yell in order to communicate with friends standing next to them. Sure, motorcycles make noise. So do gas powered lawnmowers. So what? Personally, I believe if the sound of these motorcycles was that loud, at some point, there woulda been a class action lawsuit with respect to ear damage. Describing the sound of these motorcycles on Elm St as a "Roar" is another JFK Urban Legend. Also, I have Not viewed a DPD Motorcycle, "ACCELERATING out of the sharp turn...". This is yet another exaggeration/JFK Urban Legend in the making.
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All of us have no idea regarding the loudness of the DPD Motorcycles in the motorcade. I am Not aware of witnesses claiming of having to yell in order to communicate with friends standing next to them. Sure, motorcycles make noise. So do gas powered lawnmowers. So what? Personally, I believe if the sound of these motorcycles was that loud, at some point, there woulda been a class action lawsuit with respect to ear damage. Describing the sound of these motorcycles on Elm St as a "Roar" is another JFK Urban Legend. Also, I have Not viewed a DPD Motorcycle, "ACCELERATING out of the sharp turn...". This is yet another exaggeration/JFK Urban Legend in the making.
Do you think any vehicle is going to go around a 110 degree turn at the same speed as it would on a straightaway or do you think it would speed up coming out of the turn?
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Do you think any vehicle is going to go around a 110 degree turn at the same speed as it would on a straightaway or do you think it would speed up coming out of the turn?
You described the motorcycles rounding of the corner as the, "ROAR of 4 motorcycles accelerating out of the sharp turn...". Now, you want to describe it as merely a "speed up". And, there is a difference between "4 Motorcycles" and "Any VEHICLE". You wanna go Drama Queen, and you will be held accountable. The Facts are important. So is the verbiage you choose to use.
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You described the motorcycles rounding of the corner as the, "ROAR of 4 motorcycles accelerating out of the sharp turn...". Now, you want to describe it as merely a "speed up". And, there is a difference between "4 Motorcycles" and "Any VEHICLE". You wanna go Drama Queen, and you will be held accountable. The Facts are important. So is the verbiage you choose to use.
Please explain the difference between "speed up" and "accelerate".
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Please explain the difference between "speed up" and "accelerate".
"Roar"? This is Not the Ed Forum. You will be held accountable around here. Count on it going forward, and choose your words carefully. And Elm St runs downhill. A motorcycle(s) coasting around the corner would "speed up" automatically. Again, think what you are claiming through.
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"Roar"? This is Not the Ed Forum.
I've never been a member of the Ed Forum so I guess I'll have to take your word for that.
You will be held accountable around here.
4
How so?
Count on it going forward, and choose your words carefully.
Oh, goody
And Elm St runs downhill. A motorcycle(s) coasting around the corner would "speed up" automatically. Again, think what you are claiming through.
I have thought about it. That's why I know that both limos are going to accelerate (or speed up if you prefer) coming out of that turn. They aren't going to just coast down a 3 degree incline. Since the motorcycle escort's job was to keep pace with the limos, they would have to get on their throttles too and 4 accelerating Harleys are going to create quite a ROAR (I carefully chose that word).