The Truly Magical Bullet

[Mitch Todd]

You might provide links there instead of making pithy statements.
Dr. Vincent J.M. Di Maio? Hell.... calls were made to revoke his medical license after his handling of the Zimmerman case. The other guys??
The desperate HSCA pulled all kinds of guys out of their backsides in order to bolster the fraudulent Warren Report.

You seem to know exactly who who these guys are, and why I mentioned them, so why ask for links?

Anyway, since you brought them all up, here is the HSCA FPP:

Michael M. Baden, M.D., Chairman of the Panel, Chief Medical Examiner, New York City, N.Y.
John I. Coe, M.D., Chief Medical Examiner, Hennepin County, Minn.
Joseph H. Davis, M.D., Chief Medical Examiner, Dade County, Miami,
George S. Loquvam, M.D., Director, Institute of Forensic Sciences, Oakland, Calif.
Charles S. Petty, M.D., Chief Medical Examiner, Dallas County, Dallas, Tex.
Earl F. Rose, M.D., LL.B., Professor of Pathology, University of Iowa, Iowa City, Iowa
Werner V. Spitz, M.D., Medical Examiner, Detroit, Mich.
Cyril H. Wecht, M.D., J.D., Coroner, Allegheny County, Pittsburgh,
James T. Weston, M.D., Chief Medical Investigator, School of Medicine, University of New Mexico, Albuquerque, N. Mex

Four were Chief Medical Examiners of major cities/counties at the time. Not some backwoods backbenchers, as you would have it.
Spitz was CME of Wayne County (ie, Detroit); he is author, along with Russel Fisher, of one of the foundational texts of forensic pathology

Fisher is considered to be something of the father of modern American Forensic pathology.

Vince DiMaio was CME of Bexar Couty, TX (ie, San Antonio), and is the guy who literally wrote the book on gunshot wounds.

BTW, who called for DiMiao's license to be revoked? Was it medical experts, legal experts, or just a bunch of random internet crackpots who didn't like something he said?

But, again, you already seem to know who they were and what they think. So why the bullshit exercise in demanding links?

[Tim Nickerson]

Easily found... https://www.change.org/p/revoke-the-lic-of-dr-vincent-di-maio-medical-examiner-for-the-defense-in-the-zimmerman-case

Defense or prosecution ...whoever needs him the most.

 Any deformation at all should dis-prove the theory.
I'm arguing with knot holes.

A Change.org petition that has 26 signatories?? 

WOW!!

[Jerry Freeman]

A Change.org petition that has 26 signatories??

 

You asked

[Jerry Freeman]

You seem to know exactly who who these guys are, and why I mentioned them, so why ask for links? 
But, again, you already seem to know who they were and what they think. So why the bullshit exercise in demanding links?

I "demanded" nothing so cut the crap.
I see that the gospel according to Bugliosi is the chief source of reference for the parrots here.
So I will search for links that might be relevant to CE 399
In a segment on the Kennedy assassination produced for the HBO program Autopsy, Dr. Michael Baden made a number of claims that were certifiably false and/or extremely doubtful. Here are but a sampling of them:

1. At roughly 3 minutes into the program, Baden discusses the initial press conference given by Kennedy's emergency room doctors. Baden says "In fact, the doctors down in Texas, where the shooting occurred, indicated he'd been shot in the back and in the front." The doctors, in fact, indicated no such thing. They described an entrance in Kennedy's throat and a large wound on the back of his head. They presumed this to be an exit for the bullet entering his throat. They said nothing to indicate the bullet causing this wound came from behind Kennedy.

2. A few minutes later, the program's narrator discusses the initial autopsy and states "Because the pathologist's notes were stained with blood, he burned them. After he found out that tracheotomy had been performed in Dallas, he tried to reconstitute his notes, based on what he could remember." This is nonsense. Dr. Humes, the pathologist in question, testified that he burned his notes only after copying them, and that he burned these notes after he found out about the tracheotomy. The implication that the initial autopsy report was in error because Dr. Humes couldn't remember what he saw is unjustified and undoubtedly deceptive, feeding into Dr. Baden's eventual conclusion that the mistakes in the autopsy report were all "innocent."

3. Shortly thereafter, when discussing the autopsy photos, Dr. Baden repeats the story of Floyd Riebe, a navy photographer whose camera was confiscated by the Secret Service. He then explains what he considers to be the poor quality of the photos by stating "The only one who was taking photographs was a Secret Service person who'd never taken autopsy photos before." This is frighteningly inaccurate. The lone autopsy photographer was John Stringer, the navy's top autopsy photographer, and Riebe's superior. In his memoirs, published nearly 20 years ago, Baden claimed the lone photographer was an FBI photographer. This incensed the original autopsists, Dr. James Humes and Dr. J. Thornton Boswell, to such an extent that they made a point of debunking Baden's claim and discussed Stringer's qualifications and abilities in a 1992 interview in the Journal of the American Medical Association. One would think Dr. Baden would remember his getting schooled in such a public fashion.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/11988-baden-blithers-on/
There is a 4-5-6-7-8-9 claims that follow.

On Coe- found nothing
Davis testified on the fatal shot.. not in discussion here.
 Dittos  Loquvam
etc etc
What Bugliosi doesn't reveal is that the magic bullet theory was cooked up by Arlen Specter and Gerald Ford because they had to have it or the single shooter myth was doomed.

[Andrew Mason]

The point of the demonstration was to show that below a certain velocity, a bullet ceases to be noticeably deformed by an impact. And 1100fps is still pretty quick.  Extend the  implications of this test into the question at hand (and there are always caveats to that, but still, that's the data we got) and you come into something like, the great bulk of damage to the bullet would have been from Connally's rib.

A couple of points:

1.  The SBT has CE399 striking bone other than nose-first, and it has it striking and shattering a rib at a speed much greater than 1100 fps.

2.  The SBT has CE399 striking the radius butt-first at about 1100 fps to explain the dent in the butt end.

So if there is any meaningful demonstration it should be to have the bullet strike a radius butt-first at 1100 fps and see what both the bullet and radius look like.

[Tim Nickerson]

A couple of points:

1.  The SBT has CE399 striking bone other than nose-first, and it has it striking and shattering a rib at a speed much greater than 1100 fps.

2.  The SBT has CE399 striking the radius butt-first at about 1100 fps to explain the dent in the butt end.

So if there is any meaningful demonstration it should be to have the bullet strike a radius butt-first at 1100 fps and see what both the bullet and radius look like.

One of the Fackler test bullets was travelling over 1300 ft/s when it struck and fractured the radius bone. That bullet also was not deformed at all.

[Mitch Todd]

I "demanded" nothing so cut the crap.

You demanded it mostly nicely, but over the years, I've seen how that goes when someone asks for documentation for something they already know. In any case, why did you ask for linkage when you already knew who they were and what  their position was?

I see that the gospel according to Bugliosi is the chief source of reference for the parrots here.

Actually, I've never so much as picked up his book. Are you really that presumptuous?

So I will search for links that might be relevant to CE 399
In a segment on the Kennedy assassination produced for the HBO program Autopsy, Dr. Michael Baden made a number of claims that were certifiably false and/or extremely doubtful. Here are but a sampling of them:http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/11988-baden-blithers-on/

"1. At roughly 3 minutes into the program, Baden discusses the initial press conference given by Kennedy's emergency room doctors. Baden says "In fact, the doctors down in Texas, where the shooting occurred, indicated he'd been shot in the back and in the front." The doctors, in fact, indicated no such thing. They described an entrance in Kennedy's throat and a large wound on the back of his head. They presumed this to be an exit for the bullet entering his throat. They said nothing to indicate the bullet causing this wound came from behind Kennedy.

2. A few minutes later, the program's narrator discusses the initial autopsy and states "Because the pathologist's notes were stained with blood, he burned them. After he found out that tracheotomy had been performed in Dallas, he tried to reconstitute his notes, based on what he could remember." This is nonsense. Dr. Humes, the pathologist in question, testified that he burned his notes only after copying them, and that he burned these notes after he found out about the tracheotomy. The implication that the initial autopsy report was in error because Dr. Humes couldn't remember what he saw is unjustified and undoubtedly deceptive, feeding into Dr. Baden's eventual conclusion that the mistakes in the autopsy report were all "innocent."

3. Shortly thereafter, when discussing the autopsy photos, Dr. Baden repeats the story of Floyd Riebe, a navy photographer whose camera was confiscated by the Secret Service. He then explains what he considers to be the poor quality of the photos by stating "The only one who was taking photographs was a Secret Service person who'd never taken autopsy photos before." This is frighteningly inaccurate. The lone autopsy photographer was John Stringer, the navy's top autopsy photographer, and Riebe's superior. In his memoirs, published nearly 20 years ago, Baden claimed the lone photographer was an FBI photographer. This incensed the original autopsists, Dr. James Humes and Dr. J. Thornton Boswell, to such an extent that they made a point of debunking Baden's claim and discussed Stringer's qualifications and abilities in a 1992 interview in the Journal of the American Medical Association. One would think Dr. Baden would remember his getting schooled in such a public fashion."

There is a 4-5-6-7-8-9 claims that follow.

None of them have to do with Baden's qualifications, abilities, or really anything at all about forensic medicine. How well Baden knows the exact story about Stringer and Reibe is immaterial with regard to what the photos and x-rays show, and says nothing about the skills required to correctly interpret such material. Ditto with exactly what Humes did with his notes, or with exactly what the Dallas doctors said in the news conference. It's like saying Jackie Stewart couldn't drive because he didn't remember the names of the pit crew or what the team owner told him about turn 4 at Spa. What a silly way to argue!

On Coe- found nothing
Davis testified on the fatal shot.. not in discussion here.
 Dittos  Loquvam
etc etc

All but Wecht signed off on the HSCA FPP report. He was allowed to testify to his dissent, and his dissenting opinion was added as an appendix to it.  If any of the other non-Wecht members of the HSCA FPP disagreed with the SBT, they've been mighty quiet about it for a very long time. For that matter, I've never heard that Wecht has claimed that other FPP members didn't believe in the SBT. He's not exactly a quiet guy, or a particularly diplomatic one, so the silence is significant.

In his dissenting opinion, he singles out Weston and Spitz in particular for arguing for the SBT. And, he points out with no small umbridge:

"I should like to point out in its report (first page of part 1), the statement that following its very first meeting at the National Archives on September 18, 1977, 'it was disclosed that subpanel l was in unanimous agreement with respect to the interpretation of the evidence.' (Subpanel 1 consisted of a]] the FPP members except Spitz, Wecht and Weston.)"

Loquvam and Weston wrote the FPP report  supporting the FPP Baden and Petty testified for it.

Given all that, there is no room to argue that the other FPP members didn't agree with the SBT, unless someone comes up with evidence otherwise. I've never found any.

What Bugliosi doesn't reveal is that the magic bullet theory was cooked up by Arlen Specter and Gerald Ford because they had to have it or the single shooter myth was doomed.

Which really doesn't apply to the question of how many experienced forensic pathologists agree with the SBT vs how many disagree with it. Why change the subject?