The Magic Bullet

[Andrew Mason]

Your previous post talks about evidence but comes to conclusions based on your interpretation and opinion of

that evidence. That's belief based and a case of the kettle calling the pot black.

A conclusion based on a rational assessment of the evidence is fundamentally different than a belief in the existance of facts for which there is no evidence. While it is true that one has to carefully look at the evidence and apply some judgement to the evidence that is a process that can be rationally explained.

My point was that my conclusions are based on a rational assessment of the evidence that is fully explainable. If one has a "belief" in a fact scenario but cannot point to any evidence supporting such facts, it is a matter of faith.

[John Iacoletti]

That may be your belief. Rather, it is a belief based on a belief that the evidence is false.  I prefer to base conclusions on evidence.

Gary didn't say evidence is false.  He pointed out that different people look at the Z film and interpret what they see differently.  Of course you think your interpretation is the most rational.  Everybody does.

[Gary Craig]

A conclusion based on a rational assessment of the evidence is fundamentally different than a belief in the existance of facts for which there is no evidence. While it is true that one has to carefully look at the evidence and apply some judgement to the evidence that is a process that can be rationally explained.

My point was that my conclusions are based on a rational assessment of the evidence that is fully explainable. If one has a "belief" in a fact scenario but cannot point to any evidence supporting such facts, it is a matter of faith.

I got news for you.

You're not the first and I'm sure you won't be the last.

My rational assessment is:

Everybody who micro analysis the Z-film seems to come up with their own theory.

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[Andrew Mason]

Gary didn't say evidence is false.  He pointed out that different people look at the Z film and interpret what they see differently.  Of course you think your interpretation is the most rational.  Everybody does.

I agree with your comment if you mean that one cannot determine when the shots other than the head shot occurred just by looking at the zfilm.  An opinion as to when the first two shots occurred based only on the zfilm that conflicts with the other evidence is bound to be wrong.  That is why the SBT is wrong.

However, the zfilm can be useful in identifying when the shots occurred if one uses other evidence to bracket the shot times. Then you can use the zfilm to narrow down the frame range for the shots.

For example, it is not possible to tell from the zfilm when the first shot occurred.  But there is a strong convergence on the first shot being after z191. A first shot earlier than that conflicts with a great deal of consistent evidence.  A first shot after z191 conflicts with no evidence.  (By "evidence" I do not include interpretations of what people think they see from the zfilm).  A first shot after z202 conflicts with other evidence, particularly Phil Willis whose z202 photo, he said, was taken an instant after the first shot. Jack Ready said he turned around to look behind him immediately after the first shot.  He removes his right hand from the handhold and begins turning around at z199.

Not surprisingly, a first shot between those brackets, around z195, conflicts with none of the evidence, including the view of the President from the SN on November 22, 1963.  The President is quite visible when he emerges from under the oak tree leaves when he is between the lamppost and the Thornton Freeway sign. He was opposite the sign at z200. This means he was completely clear of the tree at z195, not z210 as the WC found.


So the first shot is bracketed by z191 and z199.   That is not an interpretation of the zfilm. That is what the evidence says.

[Jerry Organ]

I agree with our comment if you mean that one cannot determine when the shots other than the head shot occurred just by looking at the zfilm.  An opinion as to when the first two shots occurred based only on the zfilm that conflicts with the other evidence is bound to be wrong.  That is why the SBT is wrong.

However, the zfilm can be useful in identifying when the shots occurred if one uses other evidence to bracket the shot times. Then you can use the zfilm to narrow down the frame range for the shots.

For example, it is not possible to tell from the zfilm when the first shot occurred.  But there is a strong convergence on the first shot being after z191. A first shot earlier than that conflicts with a great deal of consistent evidence.  A first shot after z191 conflicts with no evidence.  (By "evidence" I do not include interpretations of what people think they see from the zfilm).  A first shot after z202 conflicts with other evidence, particularly Phil Willis whose z202 photo, he said, was taken an instant after the first shot.

Willis 04 (ca. Z133)

Willis 05 (Z202)

Jackie turned towards JFK (arrow)

Problem is that Willis pinpoints the first shot to a moment before Mrs. Kennedy turned her head from his side of the street to the opposite side.

    "When I took slide No. 4, the President was smiling and waving
     and looking straight ahead, and Mrs. Kennedy was likewise smiling
     and facing more to my side of the street. When the first shot was
     fired, her head seemed to just snap in that direction, and he more
     or less faced the other side of the street and leaned forward, which
     caused me to wonder, although I could not see anything positively.
     It did cause me to wonder."

Jack Ready said he turned around to look behind him immediately after the first shot.  He removes his right hand from the
handhold and begins turning around at z199.

The hand movement is just a cute way of advancing when Ready might have first reacted to hearing the first shot. However his head first begins to turn rightward in the Z160s, within the same second when the Governor and Mrs. Kennedy exhibit rightward head turns. All three said the first shot cause them to turn their heads rightward.


_{Ready lower-left inset}

Not surprisingly, a first shot between those brackets, around z195, conflicts with none of the evidence, including the view of the President from the SN on November 22, 1963.  The President is quite visible when he emerges from under the oak tree leaves when he is between the lamppost and the Thornton Freeway sign. He was opposite the sign at z200. This means he was completely clear of the tree at z195, not z210 as the WC found.

This is stupid. Kennedy's head wasn't opposite the little sign on the lamppost. According to the Cutler map, JFK was slightly short of being opposite the base of the lamppost at Z190.

So the first shot is bracketed by z191 and z199.   That is not an interpretation of the zfilm. That what the evidence says.

It reflects your moonbeam-crazy pet theory.

[Royell Storing]

Willis 04 (ca. Z133)

Willis 05 (Z202)

Jackie turned towards JFK (arrow)

Problem is that Willis pinpoints the first shot to a moment before Mrs. Kennedy turned her head from his side of the street to the opposite side.

    "When I took slide No. 4, the President was smiling and waving
     and looking straight ahead, and Mrs. Kennedy was likewise smiling
     and facing more to my side of the street. When the first shot was
     fired, her head seemed to just snap in that direction, and he more
     or less faced the other side of the street and leaned forward, which
     caused me to wonder, although I could not see anything positively.
     It did cause me to wonder."

The hand movement is just a cute way of advancing when Ready might have first reacted to hearing the first shot. However his head first begins to turn rightward in the Z160s, within the same second when the Governor and Mrs. Kennedy exhibit rightward head turns. All three said the first shot cause them to turn their heads rightward.


_{Ready lower-left inset}

This is stupid. Kennedy's head wasn't opposite the little sign on the lamppost. According to the Cutler map, JFK was slightly short of being opposite the base of the lamppost at Z190.

It reflects your moonbeam-crazy pet theory.

          Casually rubber stamping the recollections of Willis with regard to what he HEARD is a mistake commonly made with other WW2 Vets that were present inside Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63.  Willis was a WW2 Vet and survived the BOMBING of Pearl Harbor. His Testimony based on anything he HEARD on 11/22/63 would be highly suspect.

[Andrew Mason]

Problem is that Willis pinpoints the first shot to a moment before Mrs. Kennedy turned her head from his side of the street to the opposite side.

    "When I took slide No. 4, the President was smiling and waving
     and looking straight ahead, and Mrs. Kennedy was likewise smiling
     and facing more to my side of the street. When the first shot was
     fired, her head seemed to just snap in that direction, and he more
     or less faced the other side of the street and leaned forward, which
     caused me to wonder, although I could not see anything positively.
     It did cause me to wonder."

In the photo, Jackie already has her head turned to JFK.  He said that the photo was an instant after the first shot.  When the car passed him she was looking to her left.  I don't see JFK suddenly leaning forward prior to z200.

The hand movement is just a cute way of advancing when Ready might have first reacted to hearing the first shot. However his head first begins to turn rightward in the Z160s, within the same second when the Governor and Mrs. Kennedy exhibit rightward head turns. All three said the first shot cause them to turn their heads rightward.

You are changing their evidence. Ready did not say he just turned to his right. He said he turned to look behind him. In order to do that he first had to remove his right hand from the handhold. He does not do that until z199. That is the evidence.

Besides, Mary Woodward said that she shouted to the President as the car was approaching. They were standing just west of the lamppost. She said they all turned in her direction. She said that was BEFORE the first shot.  That is what you are seeing in your clip in the z170s.  No one is even attempting to turn to look rearward.

This is stupid. Kennedy's head wasn't opposite the little sign on the lamppost.

I am not saying he was.  The arrow is from the curb between the lamppost and the Thornton sign.

According to the Cutler map, JFK was slightly short of being opposite the base of the lamppost at Z190.

That is correct. I have the positions of JFK plotted here. On a map of Dealey Plaza a line from Zapruder to JFK when he was opposite a point midway between the lamppost and the Thornton Freeway sign extends to the rounded end of the north reflecting pool. If you watch JFK in the zfilm this alignment occurs in frame z195.  So this photo, showing JFK clear when he is past the lamppost about halfway to the Thornton sign was his position at z195.  So the WC was wrong when it said he was not visible until z210.

[Bill Chapman]

One fact is that as soon as Kennedy appears from behind the sign in Zapruder, his hands are seen as jerking up from about chest level. He's just been hit, before coming into view.