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Author Topic: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer  (Read 358271 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2408 on: June 02, 2021, 01:35:20 AM »
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If you had the decency to read the post I was responding to you would see there is no need for your unwarranted accusations of 'bias' (you, of all people on this forum, accusing anyone of 'bias' is beyond a joke).

Why are you so aggressive and paranoid at the same time?

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Jerry expressed his failure to understand how someone, namely Oswald, could get from his rooming house to the Tippit shooting in 10-15 minutes. Why Oswald was at this specific location. And why Oswald shot Tippit for no apparent reason.
The assumption of Oswald being 'the man' was put forward by Jerry and I was putting forward some opinions regarding the points Jerry raised. Not facts or the "truth". Just some opinions.

I agree that Oswald, walking, could get from the rooming house to the Tippit scene in 12 minutes but not in 10.

But you haven't answered my question. You have agreed that my timeline shows that Tippit was most probably shot around 1:09, which means that his killer must have been there at 1:08. So, if the killer was Oswald, how do you get him from the rooming house to 10th street in 8 minutes max.?

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Here's some more assumptions based on the following assumption - Oswald was involved in the assassination of JFK.

That's one hell of an assumption, but it happens to be one I agree with to the extent that Oswald must have been involved, because you can't frame a complete outsider. What Oswald exactly was involved in is another matter.

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#1 He's on the run.
This is supported by Whaley's testimony that Oswald was supposed to get out of the cab a lot further down Beckley. Oswald gets Whaley to drive by the house so he can check it out. He sees it's all clear and jumps out of the cab before his designated stop. If it wouldn't have been all clear he would've got Whaley to drop him off further down Beckley where he'd originally agreed to be dropped off.

Hindsight and speculation! Whaley's testimony does not support that Oswald was "on the run".

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#2 He's in a hurry.
This is supported by Roberts' testimony. She is certain about two things in her testimony - that Oswald is in a hurry and that he is zipping up a jacket when he leaves the house.
It's also supported by the bus transfer ticket - Oswald can only use it at Marsalis and Jefferson and he has to get there before 1:15PM.
He has a small window of opportunity to get to the transfer point. Oswald jogging at 6mph would get him to Patton in 8 minutes.

No. It might have been Roberts' impression that Oswald was in a hurry, but that doesn't mean he actually was. And the bus transfer ticket doesn't prove anything of the kind. Even if the transfer did in fact belong to Oswald, that still doesn't mean that he was on his way to a bus stop at Marsalis and Jefferson

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#3 He uses the back streets.
It makes sense that he would avoid main streets like Beckley or Jefferson if he was on the run. With this in mind Oswald got off Beckley and onto North Crawford street, crossed the 8th and Davis triangle and carried on down North Crawford. He turned left onto 10th Street. This is supported by Markham's testimony that she first saw the shooter crossing Patton and moving east.
Oswald may have intended to go further down North Crawford but may have seen Tippit's squad car coming up from Jefferson so decided to duck down East 10th Street.
When Markham saw him walking he was already being followed by Tippit. If he was aware of that he would hardly be running.

Now, you are only making things up and claiming it makes sense. In reality you have no idea whatsoever what route Oswald took, if he was indeed Tippit's killler. Markham may have seen him when he was walking east, but other witnesses saw him walking west first. The whole thing is pure 100% speculation.

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Oswald had to get to Marsalis and Jefferson by 1:15 PM
He was in a big hurry and used the back streets.

Who said that Oswald had to get to Marsalis and Jefferson by 1:15 PM?

With enough speculation you can get anybody to do anything, but I can just as easily speculate that Oswald left the rooming house and went straight to the Texas Theater, where Burrows saw him at 1:07 PM.

You can't build a house on quicksand (i.e. speculations) and expect it will survive the first storm.


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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2408 on: June 02, 2021, 01:35:20 AM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2409 on: June 02, 2021, 02:22:33 AM »
Why are you so aggressive and paranoid at the same time?

Because I'm sick and tired of your accusations of hypocrisy, dishonesty and bias.
And if I was paranoid about it then it wouldn't be in the written record of this forum, would it?
The really grating aspect of it is that you are clearly an unreasonably aggressive tinfoil tiara-wearing CT zealot pretending to be a open, reasonable person.

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I agree that Oswald, walking, could get from the rooming house to the Tippit scene in 12 minutes but not in 10.

Where in my post does it mention Oswald walking the distance in 10 minutes?
What are you talking about?
What's wrong with you?

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But you haven't answered my question. You have agreed that my timeline shows that Tippit was most probably shot around 1:09, which means that his killer must have been there at 1:08. So, if the killer was Oswald, how do you get him from the rooming house to 10th street in 8 minutes max.?

But I have answered this question.
It's in the post you're supposed to be replying to.
You've not even read the post you're criticising.
Really, what is wrong with you? It's written there for all to see (except you)

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That's one hell of an assumption, but it happens to be one I agree with to the extent that Oswald must have been involved, because you can't frame a complete outsider. What Oswald exactly was involved in is another matter.

That Oswald was involved in the assassination of JFK is "one hell of an assumption"?
Really?
It's just something I plucked out of thin air?
Get a grip.

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Hindsight and speculation! Whaley's testimony does not support that Oswald was "on the run".

Of course it's speculation. My whole post is speculation. It's opinions and assumptions.
I've made that perfectly clear in the post.
Why can't you understand something so simple.
Oswald asking to be dropped on 500 block and getting out on 700 block when he lives at 1026 is strange behaviour.
It can be explained by Oswald being on the run and wanting to check out whether the coast was clear outside his rooming house.
If you have a better piece of speculation let's hear it.

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No. It might have been Roberts' impression that Oswald was in a hurry, but that doesn't mean he actually was. And the bus transfer ticket doesn't prove anything of the kind. Even if the transfer did in fact belong to Oswald, that still doesn't mean that he was on his way to a bus stop at Marsalis and Jefferson

You've not read the memo I posted have you.
Read it, then comment.

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Now, you are only making things up and claiming it makes sense. In reality you have no idea whatsoever what route Oswald took, if he was indeed Tippit's killler. Markham may have seen him when he was walking east, but other witnesses saw him walking west first. The whole thing is pure 100% speculation.

Well done.
You're getting it.
It's 100% speculation.
Well done.
Markham testified to seeing him crossing Patton and walking east followed shortly by Tippit. If that is the case, and I'm not saying it's a fact, but if her testimony on this point is reliable then he came from North Crawford, as did Tippit.
Remember, it was you who brought Markham into it.

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Who said that Oswald had to get to Marsalis and Jefferson by 1:15 PM?

I did.
Don't you get it.
I did as part of my speculating.
If you'd read the memo you'd understand where I'm getting that idea from.
But you've not.

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With enough speculation you can get anybody to do anything, but I can just as easily speculate that Oswald left the rooming house and went straight to the Texas Theater, where Burrows saw him at 1:07 PM.

How would you explain Brewer's testimony. That he watched Oswald go into the Texas Theater.

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You can't build a house on quicksand (i.e. speculations) and expect it will survive the first storm.

 :D :D :D
« Last Edit: June 02, 2021, 02:23:40 AM by Dan O'meara »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2410 on: June 02, 2021, 02:29:11 AM »
Because I'm sick and tired of your accusations of hypocrisy, dishonesty and bias.
And if I was paranoid about it then it wouldn't be in the written record of this forum, would it?
The really grating aspect of it is that you are clearly an unreasonably aggressive tinfoil tiara-wearing CT zealot pretending to be a open, reasonable person.

Where in my post does it mention Oswald walking the distance in 10 minutes?
What are you talking about?
What's wrong with you?

But I have answered this question.
It's in the post you're supposed to be replying to.
You've not even read the post you're criticising.
Really, what is wrong with you? It's written there for all to see (except you)

That Oswald was involved in the assassination of JFK is "one hell of an assumption"?
Really?
It's just something I plucked out of thin air?
Get a grip.

Of course it's speculation. My whole post is speculation. It's opinions and assumptions.
I've made that perfectly clear in the post.
Why can't you understand something so simple.
Oswald asking to be dropped on 500 block and getting out on 700 block when he lives at 1026 is strange behaviour.
It can be explained by Oswald being on the run and wanting to check out whether the coast was clear outside his rooming house.
If you have a better piece of speculation let's hear it.

You've not read the memo I posted have you.
Read it, then comment.

Well done.
You're getting it.
It's 100% speculation.
Well done.
Markham testified to seeing him crossing Patton and walking east followed shortly by Tippit. If that is the case, and I'm not saying it's a fact, but if her testimony on this point is reliable then he came from North Crawford, as did Tippit.
Remember, it was you who brought Markham into it.

I did.
Don't you get it.
I did as part of my speculating.
If you'd read the memo you'd understand where I'm getting that idea from.
But you've not.

How would you explain Brewer's testimony. That he watched Oswald go into the Texas Theater.

 :D :D :D

Thank you for showing your true colors, mr. truth-seeker   :D

Because I'm sick and tired of your accusations of hypocrisy, dishonesty and bias.

Then stop being a dishonest and bias driven hypocrite! It's an easy solution to your problem.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2021, 02:31:13 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2410 on: June 02, 2021, 02:29:11 AM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2411 on: June 02, 2021, 02:41:46 AM »
Thank you for showing your true colors, mr. truth-seeker   :D

Because I'm sick and tired of your accusations of hypocrisy, dishonesty and bias.

Then stop being a dishonest and bias driven hypocrite! It's an easy solution to your problem.

What a pathetic, weak-minded response.
What a show of your true colours.
A complete lack of substance.
A complete lack of character.
Run along, I've wasted as much time on you as I'm going to.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2412 on: June 02, 2021, 02:45:54 AM »
What a pathetic, weak-minded response.
What a show of your true colours.
A complete lack of substance.
A complete lack of character.
Run along, I've wasted as much time on you as I'm going to.

 Thumb1:   :D

That's what happens when somebody mistakenly considers his own opinion to be the only right one.

A complete lack of substance.

Substance? What substance? All you are doing is speculating. Do you really expect to be taken seriously?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2021, 02:50:45 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2412 on: June 02, 2021, 02:45:54 AM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2413 on: June 02, 2021, 04:56:09 AM »
   All this stuff was all covered on page one of this thread and has gone in circles ever since. And let's not insult the other posters...it accomplishes nothing and is violating forum regulations. Scrutinizing everything...Oswald just simply did not have the time to meander down back streets etc and arrive on site and engaging in a shooting of the policeman. As the crow may fly...yeah it is a bit less than a mile perhaps but I walked it [the shortest route possible] and saw for myself that things just didn't fit. Also if Oswald wanted to take a bus... there was a stop right next to his rooming house.

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2414 on: June 02, 2021, 09:44:04 AM »
   All this stuff was all covered on page one of this thread and has gone in circles ever since. And let's not insult the other posters...it accomplishes nothing and is violating forum regulations. Scrutinizing everything...Oswald just simply did not have the time to meander down back streets etc and arrive on site and engaging in a shooting of the policeman. As the crow may fly...yeah it is a bit less than a mile perhaps but I walked it [the shortest route possible] and saw for myself that things just didn't fit. Also if Oswald wanted to take a bus... there was a stop right next to his rooming house.

Clearly Oswald didn't 'meander' anywhere. He was in a big hurry and had exactly the correct amount of time to get him to the Tippit shooting. The distance of 0.8 miles is not as the crow flies, it's Google Maps walking distance.
Oswald could jog that distance (6mph) in 8 minutes.
At a brisk walk (4mph) he could do it in 12 minutes.
Meandering could have taken him all day.

As explained in the memo I posted, the nearest point to Oswald's house that he could use his transfer ticket was Marsalis and Jefferson, 3 blocks from where the shooting occurred. This would explain why he was on 10th when the shooting took place.

When you say "things didn't fit" what do you mean?

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2414 on: June 02, 2021, 09:44:04 AM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #2415 on: June 02, 2021, 10:35:41 AM »
This is a snapshot of a Google maps walking route from 1026 North Beckley Avenue to 401 East 10th Street:



It shows the walking distance to be 0.8 miles.
At a normal walking rate of 3mph this distance can be covered in 16 minutes
At a brisk walking rate of 4mph this distance can be covered in 12 minutes
At a jog of 6mph this distance can be covered in 8 minutes
These figures are not up for dispute. They are facts.

To imagine that a young, fit man like Oswald, who was trained in the Marines, couldn't make this distance in 8 minutes is baffling.
To imagine he couldn't do it in 10 minutes is incomprehensible. Unless there is an underlying medical condition Oswald was suffering from that I've yet to come across.
As far as I'm concerned there is no reason to believe Oswald could not have made the distance in 8 minutes and even less if he really pushed himself. I'm not saying he did do that. I'm saying I'm perplexed at inability to accept that he could do that.