Lee Oswald The Cop Killer

[Dan O'meara]

How odd you wouldn't highlight Whaley giving you color matched clothes!

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. I didn't pay much attention to it right then. But it all came back when I really found out who I had. He was dressed in just ordinary work clothes. It wasn't khaki pants but they were khaki material, blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in khaki. Then he had on a brown shirt with a little silverlike stripe on it and he had on some kind of jacket, I didn't notice very close but I think it was a work jacket that almost matched the pants.

For good measure he even dresses "Oswald" in both jackets:

Mr. BALL. Here is Commission No. 162 which is a gray jacket with zipper.
Mr. WHALEY. I thank that is the jacket he had on when he rode with me in the cab.
Mr. BALL. Look something like it?
And here is Commission Exhibit No. 163, does this look like anything he had on?
Mr. WHALEY. He had this one on or the other one.
Mr. BALL. That is right.
Mr. WHALEY. That is what I told you I noticed. I told you about the shirt being open, he had on the two jackets with the open shirt.
Mr. BALL. Wait a minute, we have got the shirt which you have identified as the rust brown shirt with the gold stripe in it.
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You said that a jacket--
Mr. WHALEY. That jacket now it might have been clean, but the jacket he had on looked more the color, you know like a uniform set, but he had this coat here on over that other jacket, I am sure, sir.
Mr. BALL. This is the blue-gray jacket, heavy blue-gray jacket.
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.

He's all in on the blue 163 jacket found in the TSBD (allegedly) -- ROFL

Only a delusional nut job would put his money on Whaley.

You showed your profound ignorance of even the basics of this aspect of the case with this post:

"I haven't seen Whaley quoted to support the jacket tale, or did I miss it?"

All I did was point out to you where it was in his testimony and now I'm a "delusional nut job".
Why couldn't you just check through his testimony before asking such a stupid question?

Why not a "thanks for that" rather than frothing at the mouth?

"...or did I miss it?"

Yes, you did miss it Otto.
Think about that.

[Martin Weidmann]

Any theory that brushes over something as elementary as this;

A curious thing happens at this point in the questioning. Ball asks - "It isn't one of these two zipper jackets we have shown?" - to which Frazier replies - "No, sir"
There are two jackets in evidence that are thought to be Oswald's - the dark blue one (CE 163) and a light grey one (CE 162)
As we have seen, CE 163 was introduced into the hearing and given to Frazier to look at. However, at no point in proceedings is CE 162 introduced. It is never mentioned and Frazier is never asked to give an opinion about it so I find Ball's mention of two zipper jackets quite baffling.

without giving due consideration to it's signifance, isn't much of theory at all.


However, at no point in proceedings is CE 162 introduced.

And this is not considered a bit strange? Perhaps they simply did not want to risk asking Frazier for an identification of CE 162 and being told it wasn't the jacket he saw on Friday morning. 
It wouldn't be the only time they pulled a prosecutorial stunt on a witness. They did the same to Tomlinson, by not introducing CE 399 into evidence until after his testimony.

Perhaps Ball simply screwed up by asking that question (and letting the truth out) after they tried so hard to keep CE 162 away from Frazier in the official record. Who knows!
Fact is that Oswald owned only two jackets. Fact is that Ball asked Frazier about two jackets and Frazier denied that either one was the jacket he had seen Oswald wear on Friday morning.

To ignore that and much more isn't developing a theory, it's concocting a fairytale.

[Bill Chapman]

Sorry Bill, I have to disagree with you here.
Not out of awkwardness or contrariness or an agenda but because I believe I have a genuine and valid point.
Your math does not include Frazier's testimony, regarding the jacket, in any way.
Your math is refuted by this particular part of Frazier's testimony.
Frazier isn't wishy-washy or uncertain in this part of his testimony, as you insinuate.
He is unequivocal about the following points:

1) CE 163 is NOT the jacket Oswald wore that morning
2) Oswald wore a light grey, long-sleeved, zipper jacket to work that morning.
3) Oswald wore the same jacket on Friday morning as he did on Thursday when Frazier dropped him off in Irving.

Frazier has never seen CE 163 before but he is really familiar with the light grey jacket. He states on three separate occasions in his testimony that he is familiar with the jacket. The only tiny bit of uncertainty in Frazier's testimony is when he is asked about a really specific detail regarding the jacket - whether it had buttons on the sleeves - and he admits he hadn't studied the jacket that closely.
Other than that he is unequivocal and emphatic - Oswald wore a light grey, long-sleeved zipper jacket to work that morning.
This refutes your notion that he wore CE 163 to work that day.

However, his testimony is, as you point out, contradicted by Linnie Mae.
The reasons I favour Frazier's testimony are that he rode to work with him that morning and was walking behind him as they crossed the car park. He must have been paying some kind of attention to him as he noticed how Oswald was carrying the package.
Linnie Mae only saw him very briefly and, as we shall see, wasn't paying that much attention to Oswald's jacket. In fact, her whole testimony on this point could hardly be any more uncertain:

Mrs. RANDLE. He had on a white T-shirt, I just saw him from the waist up, I didn't pay any attention to his pants or anything, when he was going with the package. I was more interested in that. But he had on a white T-shirt and I remember some sort of brown or tan shirt and he had a gray jacket, I believe.
Mr. BALL. A gray jacket. I will show you some clothing here. First, I will show you a gray jacket. Does this look anything like the jacket he had on?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. That morning?
Mrs. RANDLE. Similar to that. I didn't pay an awful lot of attention to it.
Mr. BALL. Was it similar in color?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir; I think so. It had big sleeves.
Mr. BALL. Take a look at these sleeves. Was it similar in color?
Mrs. RANDLE. I believe so.
Mr. BALL. What is the Commission Exhibit on this jacket?
Mrs. RANDLE. It was gray, I am not sure of the shade.
Mr. BALL. 163.
I will show you another shirt which is Commission No. 150.
Does this look anything like the shirt he had on?
Mrs. RANDLE. Well now, I don't remember it being that shade of brown. It could have been but I was looking through the screen and out the window but I don't remember it being exactly that. I thought it was a solid color.
Mr. BALL. Here is another jacket which is a gray jacket, does this look anything like the jacket he had on?
Mrs. RANDLE. No, sir; I remember its being gray.
Mr. BALL. Well, this one is gray but of these two the jacket I last showed you is Commission Exhibit No. 162, and this blue gray is 163, now if you had to choose between these two?
Mrs. RANDLE. I would choose the dark one.
Mr. BALL. You would choose the dark one?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Which is 163, as being more similar to the jacket he had?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir; that I remember. But I, you know, didn't pay an awful lot of attention to his jacket. I remember his T-shirt and the shirt more so than I do the jacket.
Mr. BALL. The witness just stated that 163 which is the gray-blue is similar to the jacket he had on. 162, the light gray jacket was not

"I didn't pay any attention to his pants or anything"
"I believe"
"I didn't pay an awful lot of attention to it"
"I think so"
"I believe so"
"I am not sure of the shade"
" didn't pay an awful lot of attention to his jacket"

You are free to choose Linnie Mae's testimony over Frazier's on this point and I am free to choose Frazier's.
Clearly I choose Frazier's and I've provided the reasons why I do.
Obviously this leaves the conundrum of CE 163 being found in the TSBD (obviously it was post Oswald's departure, it could hardly have been before he departed)
I refuse to just make up some kind of unprovable speculation about it.
It makes sense Oswald left it there at some point but Frazier's testimony tells me he didn't bring it on the Friday so, I assume, it was already in the TSBD when Frazier took Oswald to Irving on Thursday.

As for Brewer.
You brought Brewer up, insinuating it was somehow strange that Brewer saw Oswald without a jacket.
I merely pointed out that Oswald was supposed to have dumped his jacket before he got to Brewer's store so there was no reason why he should be wearing it.
I might be wide of the mark here [it wouldn't be the first time] but I get the feeling you've made a simple error regarding Brewer but you can't take it back because of the toxic, hard-core, tinfoil-tiara-wearing, fringe CT mentality that dogs a lot of these discussions.


Below is an earlier analysis I did of Frazier's testimony regarding the jacket Oswald wore that morning just to demonstrate how unequivocal Frazier is on this point:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Frazier is shown the dark blue jacket (CE 163) that was found in the TSBD and is asked if he recognises it. For some reason Ball describes it as a "gray blue" jacket.



Mr. BALL - I have here Commission's 163, a gray blue jacket. Do you recognize this jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever see Lee Oswald wear this jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't believe I have.

It doesn't get much more straight-forward than that. Not only isn't it the jacket Oswald wore to work that morning, it's a jacket Frazier is completely unfamiliar with. It must be remembered, Frazier is in the company of Oswald quite a number of times taking him to and from Irving. He is sat right next to him at a time Oswald would most likely be wearing his jacket - before and after work.
Frazier has never seen the jacket before (to the best of his knowledge)

So what was Oswald wearing to work that day?

Mr. BALL - On that day you did notice one article of clothing, that is, he had a jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What color was the jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was a gray, more or less flannel, wool-looking type of jacket that I had seen him wear and that is the type of jacket he had on that morning.
Mr. BALL - Did it have a zipper on it?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; it was one of the zipper types.

The one item of clothing Frazier specifically remembers is Oswald's gray jacket. A zipper jacket. In this part of his testimony we see the first of three times Frazier makes the point he had seen Oswald wearing this jacket before. He is unequivocal that this was the jacket Oswald had on that morning - "and that is the type of jacket he had on that morning."

A curious thing happens at this point in the questioning. Ball asks - "It isn't one of these two zipper jackets we have shown?" - to which Frazier replies - "No, sir"
There are two jackets in evidence that are thought to be Oswald's - the dark blue one (CE 163) and a light grey one (CE 162)
As we have seen, CE 163 was introduced into the hearing and given to Frazier to look at. However, at no point in proceedings is CE 162 introduced. It is never mentioned and Frazier is never asked to give an opinion about it so I find Ball's mention of two zipper jackets quite baffling.
Frazier is then asked about Oswald's pants but he makes the point he can't really remember what else he had on:

Mr. BALL - You are not able to tell us then anything or are you able to tell us, describe any of the clothing he had on that day, except this gray jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - That is the only thing you can remember?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.

Frazier reiterates that he is only sure about the gray jacket. The testimony is about to move on to the bag Oswald was carrying that day but Ball wants more details about the gray jacket:

Mr. BALL - I have here a paper sack which is Commission's Exhibit 364. That gray jacket you mentioned, did it have any design in it?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - Was it light or dark gray?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was light gray.
Mr. BALL - You mentioned it was woolen.
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Long sleeves?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

Here we find out it was a long-sleeved, light gray jacket. It is a zippered, long-sleeved, light gray jacket that Oswald was wearing to work that morning. Ball wants even more detail but Frazier isn't sure:

Mr. BALL - Buttoned sleeves at the wrist, or do you remember?
Mr. FRAZIER - To be frank with you, I didn't notice that much about the jacket, but I had seen him wear that gray woolen jacket before.
Mr. BALL - You say it had a zipper on it?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.

Although Frazier can't confirm whether or not there were buttons on the wrist he states for the second time that he had seen Oswald wearing the jacket before.  There can be little doubt what jacket Oswald wore to work that morning and it most certainly was not the dark blue jacket subsequently found at the TSBD.

Towards the end of his questioning Frazier is asked about the Thursday he dropped Oswald off:

Mr. BALL - On Thursday afternoon when you went home, drove on home, did he carry any package with him?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; he didn't
Mr. BALL - Did he have a jacket or coat on him?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What kind of a jacket or coat did he have?
Mr. FRAZIER - That, you know, like I say gray jacket.
Mr. BALL - That same gray jacket?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir. Now, I can be frank with you, I had seen him wear that jacket several times, because it is cool type like when you keep a jacket on all day, if you are working on outside or something like that, you wouldn't go outside with just a plain shirt on.

For the third time Frazier states he had seen Oswald wearing this jacket before and that he was wearing it when he dropped him off on Thursday. The same jacket he was wearing Friday morning which is why an extensive search of the Paine house never turned up this light gray, long-sleeved, zippered jacket.
It should also be remembered that nobody saw Oswald leave the TSBD.
Nobody saw what he was wearing.
And this jacket was never found in the TSBD so it is safe to assume that when Oswald left the TSBD that day he was wearing his light gray jacket.

Given that CE163 was found in the TSBD and CE162 wasn't, it seems logical that the lighter jacket was the one Oswald put on @Beckley. Arriving in shirt sleeves nails it.

I originally posted the Brewer thing to Weidmann, not you, by the way. And did not find it 'strange' that he didn't see a jacket. Go back and try to figure out why I posted that to Weidmann, not you.

[Richard Smith]

Just plain mumbo jumbo. I'm getting a bit bored with your rants. Stop asking silly questions and telling me what I supposedly have claimed and start dealing with the actual evidence.

How do we know that the revolver now in evidence at the NA is the same revolver they took from Oswald?

A simple question, so try to answer it for once instead of posting another rant.


some alleged minor delay in logging it into evidence.

OK this is definitely going to make the all time favorite top 10 of oversimplifications... 

So you have no explanation whatsoever for why the DPD would switch the pistols, frame a person they knew was innocent, and let the guilty person who they obtained the pistol from go free?  It just could have happened.  Got it. 

[Martin Weidmann]

Given that CE163 was found in the TSBD and CE162 wasn't, it seems logical that the lighter jacket was the one Oswald put on @Beckley. Arriving in shirt sleeves nails it.

I posted the Brewer thing to Weidmann, not you, by the way.

Given that CE163 was found in the TSBD and CE162 wasn't, it seems logical that the lighter jacket was the one Oswald put on @Beckley. Arriving in shirt sleeves nails it.

Except for the fact that Frazier said that Oswald was wearing a light grey jacket (which can only be CE 162) to Irving on Thursday evening.

[Bill Chapman]

Given that CE163 was found in the TSBD and CE162 wasn't, it seems logical that the lighter jacket was the one Oswald put on @Beckley. Arriving in shirt sleeves nails it.

Except for the fact that Frazier said that Oswald was wearing a light grey jacket (which can only be CE 162) to Irving on Thursday evening.

Except for the fact that Randle said that the jacket looked more like CE163. Except for the fact that Earlene said Oswald arrived @Beckley in shirt sleeves Friday afternoon.

[Michael Davidson]

Was JD Tippit an innocent cop or was he as corrupt as the rest of the Dallas Police Force ? Just a thought ...

[Martin Weidmann]

Except for the fact that Randle said that the jacket looked more like CE163. Except for the fact that Earlene said Oswald arrived @Beckley in shirt sleeves Friday afternoon.

Hey, I agree with this. The question is; Frazier said Oswald was wearing a light grey jacket (which can only be CE 162) to Irving on Thursday and returned to the TSBD on Friday morning wearing CE 163. So, how did the light grey jacket (CE 162) from Irving to the rooming house?