Malcolm Wallace's fingerprint from carton on 6th floor

[Ray Mitcham]

Irrelevant.

In the sniper's nest, there were four boxes used in connection with the shooting.  One large box containing books and then two of the smaller "Rolling Readers" boxes atop the large box of books.  The fourth box was on the floor behind the stack of three,
obviously used as a seat.

On one of the Rolling Readers boxes at the window, Oswald's left palmprint and his right index fingerprint were found.

The employees laying the floor moved the large boxes of books from the west end of the floor over to the east end.  However, the "Rolling Readers" boxes did not need to be moved, i.e. they weren't over on the west end where the new floor was being placed down.  The two "Rolling readers" boxes in the sniper's nest were originally about three aisles over from the sniper's nest window and were taken to that window for the purposes of being used as a gun rest.  The "Rolling Readers" boxes didn't contain books.

On the box on the floor, the one used as a seat, Day, using powder, dusted the box and developed a palmprint.  Latona examined the print and found it to be from Oswald's right palm.  Because Day used a powder to develop the print, Latona stated that not too long a time had passed between the time the print was placed on the box and the time it was developed by Day.  Powder cannot develop prints beyond a certain point in time.

FBI experiments showed that twenty-fours was a likely maximum time between the print being placed on the box and the time it was developed by the powder.  However, Latona would only state that he could only testify with certainty that the print was less than three days old.

"was a likely maximum time between the print being placed on the box and the time it was developed by the powder.  However, Latona would only state that he could only testify with certainty that the print was less than three days old" Could Oswald not have moved the box to get at an order that morning?

Arthur Mandella (fingerprint expert, NYPD), examined the prints and agreed that they belonged to Oswald.  Mandella was of the opinion that the palmprint developed by Day (using the powder) from the box on the floor (the one used as a seat) was probably made within a day to a day and a half of the examination made on the 22nd.

See above

Oswald could obviously have handled the boxes as part of his normal work duties.  Fingerprints were taken from the twelve Depository employees who may have had cause to handle the boxes (found in the sniper's nest) as part of their normal work duties as well.

Other identifiable prints were developed on the boxes.  These prints were compared with the fingerprints of all other employees as well as law enforcement personnel who handled the boxes.  None of the identifiable prints belonged to any of the other employees.

Point being, the larger box on the sniper's nest floor used as a seat, was moved by the floor laying crew at some point earlier in the week.  Day dusted this box with powder and developed a palmprint, which Latona said belonged to Oswald.  The process of using the powder develops prints based on perspiration and therefore would not find prints older than one to three days (timeframe dependent on which fingerprint expert you listen to).

See above

While it's possible to handle the boxes and not leave a print at all, it's also likely as possible that Oswald was the only person to handle that box at any point in time past Tuesday the 19th (per Latona's three days out).  Or, if you go by Mandella of the NYPD, Oswald could have been the only person to handle that box after Wednesday the 20th.  If you go by the FBI's experiments, Oswald was possibly the only person to handle that box after Thursday the 21st.

Don'tcha love these "possibly"s?

Oswald's prints on the boxes prove he was in that window, but they can't prove when he was there exactly.

Rubbish. he could have handled the box elsewhere, and somebody else could have moved the box into the window.

Therefore, it certainly is "significant" that Oswald's prints were on those boxes.  Saying you don't find it significant that Oswald's prints were on those boxes is to only be in denial.

If you can't show that Oswald didn't take any orders from  any of the boxes that morning, then it is totally relevant. At least to anybody without an agenda.

[Bill Brown]

"Other identifiable prints were developed on the boxes.  These prints were compared with the fingerprints of all other employees as well as law enforcement personnel who handled the boxes.  None of the identifiable prints belonged to any of the other employees."

It appears as though, from the quoted statement, that although no matches were found of "other employees", there may have been "matching prints" among "law enforcement personnel who handled the boxes."

In any event, I do wonder, as I wander, if there is a "scientific method regarding non-points that determines a non-match"?

Certainly, "scientific" along with using terms like "possible","probable", and "in the opinion of" can be a little discerning. At least to me.

It appears as though, from the quoted statement, that although no matches were found of "other employees", there may have been "matching prints" among "law enforcement personnel who handled the boxes."

Yes.  There were prints found which matched law enforcement personnel known to have handled the boxes after the assassination as well as prints of an FBI clerk.

[John Iacoletti]

In the sniper's nest, there were four boxes used in connection with the shooting.

That's an assumption not supported by any evidence.

  One large box containing books and then two of the smaller "Rolling Readers" boxes atop the large box of books.  The fourth box was on the floor behind the stack of three,
obviously used as a seat.

That's an assumption not supported by any evidence.

The two "Rolling readers" boxes in the sniper's nest were originally about three aisles over from the sniper's nest window and were taken to that window for the purposes of being used as a gun rest.

That's an assumption not supported by any evidence.

Oswald could obviously have handled the boxes as part of his normal work duties.

Isn't that what I said?

Oswald's prints on the boxes prove he was in that window,

No they don't.  If the identifications were accurate, they only show that he handled one of the boxes 1-3 days before it was dusted, and the others at some indeterminate amount of time in the past.

[Bill Brown]

One thing to keep in mind -- fingerprint/palm print analysis is subjective. It is not an exact science. Each reviewer can reach a different number of matching points.

One thing to keep in mind -- Latona, Wittmus and Mandella each examined the prints and each, independent of each other, concluded that the prints on the boxes were Oswald's.

[Joe Elliott]

See:

http://www.clpex.com/images/Darby-Wallace-Analysis/Erroneous-Match.htm


If some CTers wanted to find an ?expert? to make a bogus fingerprint match, it would be logical to seek out the services of someone who last worked on fingerprint identification several decades before and was now 83 years old. So, it makes sense for a Walt Brown to seek out someone like Nathan Darby to make the identification.


Question

Have the CTers found someone to second this opinion? Someone who Is not so old, who currently, or at least within the previous ten years, worked mostly on making fingerprint identifications?

[Bill Brown]

Oswald's prints were found on the "Rolling Readers" box inside the sniper's nest.  Other than the two at the window, there were no other "Rolling Readers" boxes anywhere near the sniper's nest.  The smaller "Rolling Readers" boxes were not among the group of larger boxes needing to moved by the employees laying the floor on the west end of the floor.

The "Rolling Readers" box sitting atop the larger box that was sitting on the floor in the sniper's nest had the prints of law enforcement personnel known to have handled the box after the assassination, an FBI clerk and Lee Oswald.

The FBI took prints from the Depository employees.  No other Depository employee left prints on that box.  In other words, take out the law enforcement personnel (and the FBI clerk) who handled the box after the assassination and all you have are prints left behind by Oswald.

There is no good reason for those two particular "Rolling Readers" boxes to have been moved to that window, other then to serve as a gun rest.  All of the other "Rolling Readers" boxes were three aisles over.

An employee other than Oswald could have placed the two "Rolling Readers" boxes by that window but they did not leave their prints on the boxes and they would have had no reason whatsoever to place those two boxes there.  Oswald, on the other hand, touched at least one of those two boxes.

This is not proof that Oswald placed the two "Rolling Readers" boxes inside the sniper's nest, but to say the prints are insignificant because Oswald worked there is to be in simple denial.

[Bill Brown]

All this verbiage, but NO answer to my question is given. Let's try again.

How long could the prints have been left on the boxes before the assassination?

Already been addressed in this thread.