Yes, I've read Corbett's latest reply. I think it's so evasive, childish, and uninformed that I see no need to respond to it. I would, however, like to follow up (1) on my comments on Lattimer's position on how long it would have taken JFK to react to his non-fatal wounds and (2) on the issue of how long it would have taken for Connally's body to visibly react to the bullet's impact.
JFK and JBC visibly reacted at the same moment, Z226, when both suddenly flipped their arms upward in perfect unison.
'Nuff said.
In fact, come to think of it, Lattimer was talking about an involuntary movement, i.e., the Thorburn reaction, which is a neurological reflex associated with spinal injury. Lattimer said that JFK assumed the Thorburn Position after he was hit, and that the Thorburn reaction would have taken around four frames to happen, which is why he said JFK was hit by no later than Z221.
Lattimer might have been under the impression that JFK was visibly reacting when he reappeared at Z225, something I believed for many years and I think most people still believe. However, a close examination of enlarged frames tell us that JFK's right arm was still moving DOWNWARD at Z225. We know that by comparing JFK's right arm in Z224 to the position it was in at Z225. Although JFK's face doesn't appear until Z225, his right arm is visible at Z224. Looking at the Z-film at normal speed and without magnification, it does seem JFK was already reacting when he reappeared at Z225 which would tell Lattimer JFK was hit no later than Z221 and possibly before. However, the simultaneous reaction of JFK and JBC at Z226 comes 4 frames after Z222 which establishes that as the LATEST the two men could have been hit, and they might not have been hit until Z223 or possibly during the brief gap between Z222 and Z223 when the film was advancing one frame.
The estimated response time has been state to be ABOUT 200 milliseconds. This is, of course, and estimate. It would be a truly remarkable coincidence if the response time was not only a round number, but an integer. 200 milliseconds for a response is likely a good ballpark number to work with. The witness who said that each frame of the Z-film was 56 milliseconds was apparently using 18 fps as the speed of the camera. 1000/18 comes out to 55.55555... which does round up to 56 milliseconds. However using 18.3 fps, 1000/18.3 comes out to 54.6448... milliseconds. I know it's quibbling, but that is a more accurate figure. 200 milliseconds is roughly 3.66 frames which no surprisingly, is also not an integer. For this reason, a reaction at Z226 is compatible with a single bullet strike at either Z222, Z223, or during the gap between those two frames.
The above is a perfectly logical explanation of the timing and physics involved, which is why MTG chooses to label it as "childish and uninformed". That's his typical response to critical questioning which challenges his long-held conspiracy dogma. It's his excuse for dodging the critical questioning.
Now, of course, Lattimer's claim that Kennedy assumed the Thorburn Position starting in Z225 is demonstrably wrong, as has been pointed out by numerous scholars over the years.
I find it amusing that MTG refers to everyone who agrees with him as a scholar while he has a wide array of epithets for those who dare to challenge his claims.
The point is that Lattimer acknowledged that an involuntary movement in response to injury would take around four frames. Forensic literature on the Thorburn reaction says it happens "immediately" and "instantaneously" after the required spinal injury occurs. Posner says "Kennedy's Thorburn response from spinal damage . . . came between one-tenth to two-tenths of a second after the bullet hit him, which translates to 1.8 to 3.66 Zapruder frames."
In terms of the time it would have taken for Connally's torso to show visible movement in response to the force of the bullet's impact, this would have taken no more than four Zapruder frames, or about 220 milliseconds. This matches perfectly with Connally's selection of Z234 as the moment impact, since his right shoulder starts to be driven downward in Z238.
JBC's arm flip at Z226 matches perfectly with a bullet strike in the Z222-223 window. So does JFK's sudden raising of his arms at the same frame. It's doesn't matter whether it was a Thorburn response or not. He was reacting to getting shot.
I asked Google AI, "If a bullet hits your back how long will it take your torso to show a visible reaction?" Google AI answered that the visible reaction will occur "within milliseconds of the impact" and that "the physical response is governed by the laws of physics and biomechanics rather than a conscious delay":
"Within milliseconds"
WOW, that's really narrowing it down.
When a bullet strikes the torso, a visible reaction begins instantly, within milliseconds of the impact. The physical response is governed by the laws of physics and biomechanics rather than a conscious delay.
So the idea that Connally's dramatic shoulder drop in Z238-242 is a "delayed reaction" to a hit at Z222-224 is unreasonable and unscientific. Jim Moore, one of the most honest WC apologists around, freely acknowledges the sharp right shoulder drop in Z238-242 . He theorizes that JFK's arm and hand movements in Z224-237 are in response to being hit with bits of concrete and/or metal from the bullet that hit the pavement behind the limo, and that the alleged SBT hit occurs at Z237:
And again, MTG ignores the very obvious shoulder drop by JBC at Z225, 2-3 frames after he was shot.
Governor Connally himself studied the Zapruder film and picked frame 234 as the moment of the bullet’s impact upon his back. In the film itself, less than a third of a second after Connally says he was hit, one can see the dramatic effect of the bullet’s impact. Between frames 237 and 238, the bullet strike is evident as the Governor’s right shoulder collapses, his cheeks suddenly puff, and his hair is disarranged. Indeed, between the two frames, the slope of the Governor’s right shoulder suddenly drops by about twenty degrees. . . .
MTG continues to ignore the fact that JBC could only judge when he was hit by looking for when he made the reaction he remembered. He was unaware of his involuntary arm flip at Z226 which was a reaction to the bullet which struck his wrist 3-4 frames earlier.
The problem Dr. Lattimer, the Warren Commission and HSCA investigators share is the sudden drop of Connally’s right shoulder at frames 237-238. Portions of the human frame don’t suddenly drop 20 degrees without some significant outside force acting upon them. And, when you consider that this shoulder drop took place within an eighteenth of a second, that outside force must have been very significant indeed. Impact on the Governor’s back, then, most likely took place at Zapruder frame 237. Interestingly enough, Connally’s doctors also reviewed the Zapruder film and placed the moment of impact at about frame 236. . . .
I guess JBC's Z225 shoulder drop was in anticipation of the bullet that was about to hit him in the back.
I believe that President Kennedy shared Tague’s experience. Doubtless the bullet hitting the concrete only a few feet from the President showered President Kennedy with bits of concrete and possibly metal fragments. . . .
Pelted or forcibly struck by bits of concrete and metal, he lived the next two seconds in a daze. His right arm, which had been waving to the Elm Street crowd, froze in place. By the time he emerged from behind the road sign and back into Zapruder’s view, his hands were rising to cover his face. (Conspiracy of One: The Definitive Book on the Kennedy Assassination, 2018 edition, pp. 167-169, 197-198)[/font]
JFK's right hand did not freeze in place. There was almost nobody left on Elm St. to continue to wave to. Perhaps Joe Biden would have continued to wave to non-existent spectators, but JFK's cognitive decline wouldn't begin for another 6 seconds.
This is actually the least ridiculous version of the SBT that has been offered by WC apologists. Of course, it, too, is fatally flawed because of the conflicting trajectories, because of the narrow wound path through Connally's chest, because of the wound-ballistics evidence that CE 399 could not have done all the damage required by the SBT, and because of the disclosures that the back wound had no exit point, that there was no hole in the tie and no nick on the tie knot's left or right edge, and that the back wound was well below the throat wound, etc.
MTG has been spewing that
for 35 years. No reason to expect him to stop now.
However, at least this version of the SBT offers a non-ludicrous explanation for JFK's Z200-237 reaction, offers a non-ludicrous explanation for the location of the rear JFK clothing holes, and acknowledges the obvious implications of the Z238-242 right shoulder drop.
Conspiracy of One was one of the first books i read when I started to study the JFK assassination in depth. As a newbie, I was susceptible to quite a bit of nonsense and Moore's book had plenty of that. Fortunately, I quickly learned to apply a healthy dose of skepticism to future books I read on the subject, such as Plausible Denial, Mafia Kingfish, and Best Evidence to name a few. These books have been relegated to history's clearance table while the WCR still stands as the definitive account of the JFKA.
For information on why JFK's reaction in Z224-232 does not even come close to a Thorburn reaction, see the following articles:
"Dr. Lattimer and the Great Thorburn Hoax"
"John Lattimer Never Quit"
I have no opinion on whether JFK's reaction to the bullet that went through his torso was a true Thorburn response or not. It doesn't matter whether it was or was not. It is a reaction to having been shot which is what matters. I have seen similar responses by football players, usually quarterbacks, who absorb violent blows to the head. The most recent example was by Oregon QB Dante Moore, who took a vicious helmet-to-helmet hit by a USC defender as Moore was sliding to the ground. His hands both went up towards his ears as he lay motionless on the ground. Was that Thorburn? I don't know. I don't care. It was the dirtiest play I've seen so far this season.
