Lone Nutters Abuse Of The Term "Conspiracy Theory"

[Michael Capasse]

He told Secret Service Agent Roger Warner on Dec 3 or 4 of 1963 that it was on the stretcher that he had pulled off the elevator. He was asked about it in 1967 by Eddie Barker of CBS and he said that he was sure of it. That was one thing that he had no doubt about. 

That was Connally's stretcher.

He does not say he was sure of JBCs stretcher to Eddie Barker

"...well I know that that I know I just don't know who was on that stretcher but the stretcher was on the elevator right and this was the elevator that Governor Conley would have taken or would have been placed on to go to the operating room is that yes sir that's that's the one he went up on..."

[Martin Weidmann]

Odum deferred to the FBI document. That was him saying that he believed that he did show the bullet to Tomlinson and Wright on June 12, 1964. Tomlinson and Wright told him that the bullet appeared to be the same one that they handled on Nov 22, 1963. Tomlinson thought it might have been Shanklin who showed him the bullet. He was wrong. And his memory was way off as far as time goes. That fact is evidenced by CD1258 and by the the Airtel of SAC Dallas that you referred to. And I'll just note here that, contrary to what you claimed, that Airtel and the information on page 3 of CD1258 do not conflict with one another. They both say that Tomlinson and Wright were unable to positively identify CE-399 as the bullet that they handled on Nov 22, 1963.

Odum deferred to the FBI document. That was him saying that he believed that he did show the bullet to Tomlinson and Wright on June 12, 1964.

No, that's what you want to believe.

Tomlinson and Wright told him that the bullet appeared to be the same one that they handled on Nov 22, 1963.

No, according to CE 2011 only Tomlinson said that and even that wasn't true

Tomlinson thought it might have been Shanklin who showed him the bullet. He was wrong. And his memory was way off as far as time goes.

Nope... Have you read the transcript of the Marcus interview?

Tomlinson was sure that he was shown a bullet once by an FBI officer and he told Marcus that it was Shanklin and about a week after the assassination.

In his WC deposition he said;

Mr. SPECTER. Have you been interviewed about this matter by any other Federal representative?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Who interviewed you about it?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I don't remember the name of either one of them, but one was the FBI man and one was the Secret Service man.
Mr. SPECTER. How many times did the FBI interview you?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Once.
Mr. SPECTER. How many times did the Secret Service interview you?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Once.
Mr. SPECTER. When did the FBI interview you?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I believe they were the first to do it.
Mr. SPECTER. Approximately when was that?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I think that was the latter part of November.
Mr. SPECTER. And when did the Secret Service interview you?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Approximately a week later, the first part of December.

There is in fact a report, dated 12/05/63, by Secret Service Agent Roger C. Warner in which he confirms interviewing Tomlinson, at Parkland Hospital, on December 4, 1963.

Tomlinson was spot on!

That fact is evidenced by CD1258 and by the the Airtel of SAC Dallas that you referred to. And I'll just note here that, contrary to what you claimed, that Airtel and the information on page 3 of CD1258 do not conflict with one another. They both say that Tomlinson and Wright were unable to positively identify CE-399 as the bullet that they handled on Nov 22, 1963.

Nobody disputes that, according to the Shanklin's Airtel, Tomlinson and Wright were unable to identify CE 399. What is in dispute is that they said that the bullet appeared to be the same one that they handled on Nov 22, 1963. On that point CE 2011 and the Airtel do conflict with eachother.

Now, let me tell you with I think possibly happened. When the WC asked the FBI to confirm the chain of evidence for an number of items, including CE 399, Shanklin understood he had a problem as soon as he saw the bullet that was send to him in June 1964. I believe Shanklin did in fact show a bullet to Wright and Tomlinson about a week after the assassination and, at that time, it actually was the bullet that Tomlinson had found. So, when Shanklin saw the bullet in June 1964 he instantly knew that it wasn't the bullet he had shown to Tomlinson and Wright. Rather than actually show this bullet and risk getting a denial from both men, he solved the problem by simply claiming in his Airtel that Tomlinson and Wright could not identify the bullet. Can I prove that? No, but it is a plausible explanation once you get beyond the belief that no evidence in this case was manipulated.

[Martin Weidmann]

He told Secret Service Agent Roger Warner on Dec 3 or 4 of 1963 that it was on the stretcher that he had pulled off the elevator. He was asked about it in 1967 by Eddie Barker of CBS and he said that he was sure of it. That was one thing that he had no doubt about. 

That was Connally's stretcher.

So, what exactly are you saying here?

Tomlinson's memory was way off about who showed him CE 399 and when, but he was spot on about the stretcher. Is that what you are saying?

That was Connally's stretcher.

Tomlinson, nor anybody else, ever confirmed that the stretcher that came of the elevator was the one used for Connally.
In fact, he wouldn't have been able to confirm anything of the kind as he only saw the stretcher after it was placed on the elevator.
At best he could assume that this was the stretcher used for Conally.

According to the note Johnsen attached to the envelope containing the bullet; "It could not be determined who had used this stretcher or if President Kennedy had occupied it."
That's day one information!

Tomlinson told Specter he wasn't even sure which stretcher he took from the elevator.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, Mr. Tomlinson, are you sure that it was stretcher "A" that you took out of the elevator and not stretcher "B"?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, really, I can't be positive, just to be perfectly honest about it, I can't be positive, because I really didn't pay that much attention to it. The stretcher was on the elevator and I pushed it off of there and I believe we made one or two calls up before I straightened out the stretcher up against the wall.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say "one or two calls," what do you mean by that?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Went to pick up the technician from the second floor to bring him down to the ground floor to get blood.

[Tim Nickerson]

Odum deferred to the FBI document. That was him saying that he believed that he did show the bullet to Tomlinson and Wright on June 12, 1964.

No, that's what you want to believe.

It's not a matter of belief. Odum deferred to the FBI document. That is a fact.

Tomlinson and Wright told him that the bullet appeared to be the same one that they handled on Nov 22, 1963.

No, according to CE 2011 only Tomlinson said that and even that wasn't true

Tomlinson said that but it wasn't true? You're not making any sense. CE-2011 and CD-1258 are the same thing. You need to read page 3 of 1258 again and read it carefully. Wright told Odum that the slug looked like the slug that he gave to Richard Johnsen at parkland on Nov 22, 1963.

That fact is evidenced by CD1258 and by the the Airtel of SAC Dallas that you referred to. And I'll just note here that, contrary to what you claimed, that Airtel and the information on page 3 of CD1258 do not conflict with one another. They both say that Tomlinson and Wright were unable to positively identify CE-399 as the bullet that they handled on Nov 22, 1963.

Nobody disputes that, according to the Shanklin's Airtel, Tomlinson and Wright were unable to identify CE 399. What is in dispute is that they said that the bullet appeared to be the same one that they handled on Nov 22, 1963. On that point CE 2011 and the Airtel do conflict with each other.

I have read it. I have it on one of my laptops. I recall that Tomlinson thought it might have been Shanklin but wasn't sure. The notion that Shanklin waited to until July of 1964 to report on the interview is laughable. And CE 2011 and the Airtel do NOT conflict with each other. Stop being so dense.

Now, let me tell you with I think possibly happened. When the WC asked the FBI to confirm the chain of evidence for an number of items, including CE 399, Shanklin understood he had a problem as soon as he saw the bullet that was send to him in June 1964. I believe Shanklin did in fact show a bullet to Wright and Tomlinson about a week after the assassination and, at that time, it actually was the bullet that Tomlinson had found. So, when Shanklin saw the bullet in June 1964 he instantly knew that it wasn't the bullet he had shown to Tomlinson and Wright. Rather than actually show this bullet and risk getting a denial from both men, he solved the problem by simply claiming in his Airtel that Tomlinson and Wright could not identify the bullet. Can I prove that? No, but it is a plausible explanation once you get beyond the belief that no evidence in this case was manipulated.

Oh FFS! You've gone completely batty.

[Tim Nickerson]

It was OP Wright. He does not say he was sure of JBCs stretcher to Eddie Barker

"...well I know that that I know I just don't know who was on that stretcher but the stretcher was on the elevator right and this was the elevator that Governor Conley would have taken or would have been placed on to go to the operating room is that yes sir that's that's the one he went up on..."

That's Tomlinson, not Wright. He didn't know whose stretcher it was. But it was Connally's.

[Tim Nickerson]

Tomlinson was sure that he was shown a bullet once by an FBI officer and he told Marcus that it was Shanklin and about a week after the assassination.

In his WC deposition he said;

Mr. SPECTER. Have you been interviewed about this matter by any other Federal representative?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Who interviewed you about it?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I don't remember the name of either one of them, but one was the FBI man and one was the Secret Service man.
Mr. SPECTER. How many times did the FBI interview you?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Once.
Mr. SPECTER. How many times did the Secret Service interview you?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Once.
Mr. SPECTER. When did the FBI interview you?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I believe they were the first to do it.
Mr. SPECTER. Approximately when was that?
Mr. TOMLINSON. I think that was the latter part of November.
Mr. SPECTER. And when did the Secret Service interview you?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Approximately a week later, the first part of December.

There is in fact a report, dated 12/05/63, by Secret Service Agent Roger C. Warner in which he confirms interviewing Tomlinson, at Parkland Hospital, on December 4, 1963.

Tomlinson was spot on!

Tomlinson was obviously wrong in 1966 when he told Marcus that the FBI had only interviewed him once. Shanklin did not show him the bullet. Odum did.

[Tim Nickerson]

So, what exactly are you saying here?

Tomlinson's memory was way off about who showed him CE 399 and when, but he was spot on about the stretcher. Is that what you are saying?

That was Connally's stretcher.

Tomlinson, nor anybody else, ever confirmed that the stretcher that came of the elevator was the one used for Connally.
In fact, he wouldn't have been able to confirm anything of the kind as he only saw the stretcher after it was placed on the elevator.
At best he could assume that this was the stretcher used for Conally.

According to the note Johnsen attached to the envelope containing the bullet; "It could not be determined who had sued this stretcher of if President Kennedy had occupied it."
That's day one information!

Tomlinson told Specter he wasn't even sure which stretcher he took from the elevator.

Mr. SPECTER. Now, Mr. Tomlinson, are you sure that it was stretcher "A" that you took out of the elevator and not stretcher "B"?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, really, I can't be positive, just to be perfectly honest about it, I can't be positive, because I really didn't pay that much attention to it. The stretcher was on the elevator and I pushed it off of there and I believe we made one or two calls up before I straightened out the stretcher up against the wall.
Mr. SPECTER. When you say "one or two calls," what do you mean by that?
Mr. TOMLINSON. Went to pick up the technician from the second floor to bring him down to the ground floor to get blood.

Tomlinson did not know who had been on that stretcher. R.J. Jimison did.

Mr. SPECTER - Was there any other stretcher placed on that elevator later that day?
Mr. JIMISON - Not during my shift.
Mr. SPECTER - Are you the only man who would put the stretcher on the elevator if there were one?
Mr. JIMISON - No, I is not, but might near--I could might near see of anybody--from where the elevator sits from where the halls were--I could might near see all of the stretchers put on there.
Mr. SPECTER - If a stretcher was put on there it would have to be in your presence?
Mr. JIMISON - I would have had to be hid where I wouldn't be able to see it.
Mr. SPECTER - What time did you put the stretcher from Governor Connally on the elevator?
Mr. JIMISON - I'm not too sure I know of the time. I really don't know exactly the time.
Mr. SPECTER - Well, about how long after he was taken into the operating room, did you?
Mr. JIMISON - It was lesser than 10 minutes before or after.
Mr. SPECTER - What time did you get off that day?
Mr. JIMISON - 3:30.
Mr. SPECTER - And you say there was no other stretcher placed on that elevator from the time you put Governor Connally's stretcher on until the end of the day?
Mr. JIMISON - Until the end of my shift. You see, that's the emergency---- from the emergency that we had from that time that he was brought up until I was relieved from duty that afternoon.