The JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate
How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
Michael T. Griffith:
--- Quote from: Tim Nickerson on September 07, 2026, 04:17:19 AM ---I sliced it the way that I sliced it. Please read it again. Ford did not change the location of the entry wound. He did not move it by as much as a mm in any direction.
--- End quote ---
Surely you're joking. "Please read it again"? What don't you understand here? You can read it a thousand times, and it's still going to read that Ford replaced "at a point slightly below the shoulder" with "the back of his neck."
Sheesh, even Google AI says that Ford changed the wound's description so that it would "better align" with the single-bullet theory:
Gerald Ford successfully pushed the Warren Commission to change the written description of President John F. Kennedy's back wound from the upper back to the base of the neck to better align with the single-bullet theory. (Google "gerald ford's alteration of the description of jfk's back wound")
I was surprised by this acknowledgment because Google AI usually gives answers that are pro-WC.
And surely you can't look at the autopsy photo of the back wound and claim with a straight face that it shows the wound in "the back of his neck" where Humes put it in his drawing for the WC, can you? The HSCA FPP concluded the photo puts the wound at T1, which is a good 2 inches lower than where Humes placed it in his WC drawing. Indeed, the FPP said they placed the wound "in the back area" and "a few inches lower" than where Humes put it in his drawing:
The panel also places the entrance perforation on the lower, in the back area, a few inches lower than illustrated in this drawing. (1 HSCA 256)
--- Quote from: Tim Nickerson on September 07, 2026, 04:17:19 AM ---He recommended a change in the wording of the draft report. He did not unilaterally change that wording. His recommendation was valid. Humes et al said that the wound was in the low neck. I'm not interested in defending Ford. I didn't particularly care for him. My interest is for historical accuracy. Your issue is with Humes et al. You may be right. The bullet may not have entered the back of the neck. I usually argue that it did but I don't need it to have. The bullet traversed downward through Kennedy and exited his throat. It honestly makes no difference to me if it entered at the level of C7 or T1.
--- End quote ---
But Humes's wound diagram for the WC put the wound at C3 or C4, not C7. He put the wound noticeably above the throat wound, as we see in CE 385. Humes had to put the back wound above the throat because he and the WC claimed the bullet traveled a "downward path" from the back wound to the throat wound, a piece of pure fiction that even the HSCA FPP rejected.
A bullet entering at C7 would have struck barely level with or slightly below the throat wound. A bullet entering at T1 would have struck at least 1/3 of an inch below the throat wound, which is one reason the HSCA FPP said the bullet hit the back at an upward angle and that it tunneled upward, a fact that Dr. Werner Spitz had confirmed for the Rockefeller Commission three years earlier:
There is no doubt that the bullet which struck the President’s back penetrated the skin in a sharply upward direction, as is evident from the width of the abrasion at the lower half of the bullet wound of entrance. The term "sharply upward direction" is used because it is evident from this injury that the missile traveled upwards within the body. (Report of Werner Spitz, 4/24/75, p. 1, Rockefeller Commission papers, see https://websites.umich.edu/~ahaq/correspondence.pdf)
This is why the FPP had to assume that JFK was leaning so far forward as to be nearly doubled over when the bullet struck, as Dr. Baden was nice enough to demonstrate in front of TV cameras.
Also, we know the back wound was actually at T3, as documented in the death certificate (marked "verified") and on the autopsy face sheet (also marked "verified"), and as confirmed by the hard physical evidence of the rear JFK clothing holes.
Sibert and O'Neill insisted the back wound was well below the throat wound and could not have exited the throat.
A careful look at the autopsy photo of the back wound shows the photo is consistent with the T3 location, when you take into account the fact that the head is tilted substantially backward, so much so that two lines of folded skin can be seen on the upper part of the neck just below the hairline. With those two lines of folded skin unfolded, the wound could very well be at T3 or more than halfway between T2 and T3.
"JFK's Clothing Proves the Single-Bullet Theory Is Impossible"
"Where Was President Kennedy's Back Wound?"
John Corbett:
--- Quote from: Tim Nickerson on September 07, 2026, 04:17:19 AM ---I sliced it the way that I sliced it. Please read it again. Ford did not change the location of the entry wound. He did not move it by as much as a mm in any direction. He recommended a change in the wording of the draft report. He did not unilaterally change that wording. His recommendation was valid. Humes et al said that the wound was in the low neck. I'm not interested in defending Ford. I didn't particularly care for him. My interest is for historical accuracy. Your issue is with Humes et al. You may be right. The bullet may not have entered the back of the neck. I usually argue that it did but I don't need it to have. The bullet traversed downward through Kennedy and exited his throat. It honestly makes no difference to me if it entered at the level of C7 or T1.
--- End quote ---
The wording is what was FUBAR. The bullet did not hit JFK in the back of the neck. I don't know why he proposed that. Perhaps he misunderstood Humes's testimony.
I agree with 99% of what I have read in the WCR. If I could change one thing in the report, that would be it.
If I could change two things, the second one would be their statement that SBT is not essential to the finding that JFK was killed by a lone gunman. If there was no single bullet, there had to be a second shooter.
Zeon Mason:
The Myers computer graphics model somehow aligns the SBT trajectory. It looks good in that computer simulated reality, however in the real world of physics experiments the trajectory did not work out so well since no experiment so far has been able to replicate the bullet exiting the throat. They got it almost there in the 2003 experiment with the 2 torso models demonstrating the 6.5mm bullet fired from the MC rifle could go thru 2 bodies. However the straight line trajectory is clearly well below the throat wound location.
The experiment left off the arms and hands and heads and the torsos were fixed and stationary. Thus experiment was doomed from the start to be an inaccurate representation, probably because they did. not wish to address the wrist wound problem and where exactly JCs right hand was positioned at Z224.
John Corbett:
--- Quote from: Zeon Mason on September 07, 2026, 12:19:53 PM ---The Myers computer graphics model somehow aligns the SBT trajectory. It looks good in that computer simulated reality, however in the real world of physics experiments the trajectory did not work out so well since no experiment so far has been able to replicate the bullet exiting the throat. They got it almost there in the 2003 experiment with the 2 torso models demonstrating the 6.5mm bullet fired from the MC rifle could go thru 2 bodies. However the straight line trajectory is clearly well below the throat wound location.
The experiment left off the arms and hands and heads and the torsos were fixed and stationary. Thus experiment was doomed from the start to be an inaccurate representation, probably because they did. not wish to address the wrist wound problem and where exactly JCs right hand was positioned at Z224.
--- End quote ---
You give no specifics on how the straight line trajectory was determined so why should we assume this experiment was more accurate than what Dale Myers did.
The best evidence of the SBT trajectory is what did happen on 11/22/1963. We know the bullet that entered JFK's back exited his throat. It is hard to believe that the bullet would not have struck JBC somewhere on his back. If the experiment you reference indicates the bullet would have hit JBC lower than it did, than obviously, the experiment was faulty.
In order for any recreation to refute the SBT, it would need to show how the bullet that exited from JFK's throat could have missed JBC and if it did, what it would have hit. Any experiment or recreation that shows the bullet would have hit JBC somewhere other than where it did has disproved itself, not the SBT.
Steve M. Galbraith:
--- Quote from: John Corbett on September 07, 2026, 12:06:50 PM ---The wording is what was FUBAR. The bullet did not hit JFK in the back of the neck. I don't know why he proposed that. Perhaps he misunderstood Humes's testimony.
I agree with 99% of what I have read in the WCR. If I could change one thing in the report, that would be it.
If I could change two things, the second one would be their statement that SBT is not essential to the finding that JFK was killed by a lone gunman. If there was no single bullet, there had to be a second shooter.
--- End quote ---
Ford didn't see the autopsy photos; he had to rely on the autopsy report and the testimony. Warren absurdly decided not to allow anyone, including the members (not just the staff), to see them. Them included the x-rays. Right, don't ask me what he was thinking.
From Humes' testimony: "The wound in the low neck of which I had previously begun to speak is now posteriorly--is now depicted in 385, in 386 and in 388."
Here is what Ford saw:
And 388
Placing the wound on the neck is completely understandable based on what he heard and was shown.
From the Shenon book on the photos: "Now that he [i.e., Warren] had seen the photos for himself, Warren said he did not struggle about what to do with them. It was an easy decision: they would be locked away, forever, unless the Kennedy family decided otherwise. No one outside the family had the right to see them—and that included the other members of the commission and its staff, Warren decided. He ordered all of the autopsy photos, as well as all of the X-rays, be sent to the Justice Department, where Robert Kennedy would have control over them. Warren convinced himself that the commission did not need the photos and X-rays, since the navy doctors who had conducted the autopsy were available to testify and the commission had full access to the written autopsy report, which contained hand-drawn diagrams of the wounds to the president’s body. The photos and X-rays were of no special value, Warren declared. The commission, he said, would have “the convincing testimony of the Naval doctors who performed the autopsy to establish the cause of death, entry, exit and course of the bullets.”
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