Yet Another Bullet That the Lone-Gunman Theory Cannot Explain

[Michael T. Griffith]

There is yet another bullet, another missed shot, that the lone-gunman theory cannot explain. During the autopsy, a misshapen bullet was found in JFK's limo by two senior Navy non-commissioned officers (NCOs), Chief Mills and Chief Martinell. The two Navy NCOs gave the bullet to Dr. James Young in the Bethesda morgue, and Dr. Young gave it to Dr. James Humes, the chief autopsy pathologist.

For years, Dr. Young assumed the bullet was entered into evidence and discussed in the Warren Report. When he learned, much to his surprise, that it was not, he tried to find out why the bullet had been ignored and why it had vanished. Before he contacted then-Senator Arlen Specter, he checked with one of the Navy NCOs, Chief Mills, to ensure he had his story straight, and Chief Mills confirmed the finding of the deformed bullet. 

Dr. Young's account is so compelling because he was an ardent believer in the Warren Commission's version of the shooting. He assumed the bullet was one of the shots that Oswald allegedly fired.

In an attempt to find out what had happened to the bullet, on December 27, 2000, Dr. Young wrote a letter to former President Gerald Ford, a former member of the WC. Among other things, Dr. Young told Ford the following:

Two of the corpsmen left and returned sometime later with three varying sized pieces of President Kennedy’s skull bones. In addition, they brought back in an envelope a spent misshapen bullet which they had found on the back floor of the “Queen Mary” where they had found the pieces of skull bones. The bullet and pieces of skull were given to Dr. Jim Humes.

Dr. Young discussed the finding of the bullet with the Navy’s Office of Medical History in 2001, but the interview was not published until 2013. Here is an excerpt from his interview:

They picked up the bullet off of the floor in the back of the car. Well, I decided that this is something, you know, the third bullet has never been decided about ever, apparently. So what I did was I decided there was only one person still alive from the original Warren Commission. I went through the entire Warren Commission book. I've got the whole report of the Warren Commission as a matter of fact. I went through the whole thing and there was nothing in it.

Now, at that particular time nobody said anything about this. And I know what we did. We brought that in, I mean Chief Martinell and Chief Mills went to the White House, went to the Queen Mary, got the stuff off of the floor in the back seat, brought it back out to us and we gave that to Commander Humes at the time.

I don't know what happened to it, so I decided that what I would do is I would write to President Ford, which I did. I wrote to President Ford and asked him, this was this past summer. I asked him about, you know, did he know anything about this particular bullet that was given to the autopsy surgeons and he wrote me back a very nice letter, said, “No, he didn't know anything about it, had not heard anything about it ever.” Well, at that point then I began to look around for other issues and I found that Senator Arlen Specter had been an Assistant Counsel to the Warren Commission.

So I made a telephone call to Senator Specter's office, got one of his individuals, told that individual about what I had and what I was concerned about, and I wanted to talk with Senator Specter. Well, he did call me back and we spent half an hour on a Friday night about ten thirty at night, he called me back and we talked about it. And he said, “well send me the material,” he said, “and I'll see what we can do.” So I have sent him a copy of What Price a Rose? [Dr. Young’s book] and asked him to look into what happened to that bullet.

Now just to reassure myself, Chief Martinell unfortunately has died. Chief Mills had become a Lieutenant Commander in a Medical Service Corps and retired from the Navy.

However, I found him living in Johnson City, Texas, where he had been working for the Johnson family on the ranch and whatnot. But he had retired in Johnson City. I picked up the phone and I called him. He confirmed exactly what I had put down in my notes, that there was a bent brass slug that they had brought out that they had picked up off the floor of the Queen Mary. (Navy Bureau of Medicine and Surgery, “Navy Medicine and President Kennedy’s Autopsy: Recollections from a former White House Physician,” Washington, D.C.: Navy Bureau of Medicine and Surgery, 2013, pp. 10-11)

The 2021 documentary JFK: Destiny Betrayed includes an excellent segment on this historic disclosure. I discuss Dr. Young's account at length in my book A Comforting Lie: The Myth That a Lone Gunman Killed President Kennedy (pp. 83-86).

For online sources regarding Dr. Young's disclosure, see the following:

“Navy Doctor: Bullet Found in JFK’s Limousine, and Never Reported,” WhoWhatWhy website, 10/6/2017

"Extra Bullets and Missed Shots in Dealey Plaza"

"White House Physician, Autopsy Eyewitness, Questions President Ford about Missing Bullet"

"Bending the Story on a Bent Bullet"

[John Corbett]

For this half-assed story to make sense, JFK's limo would have to have been driven to Bethesda. Why the hell would that have been done and what is your evidence that was done. Inquiring minds want to know.

[John Corbett]

Here is an actual account written by Captain James Young on 11/21/2013. The only mention of any bullets was when he was writing about the bullets that had struck JFK. Nothing about a bullet being found in the limo.

https://www.med.navy.mil/Media/News/Article/2608993/what-price-a-rose-a-navy-physician-remembers-nov-22-1963/

Do you ever bother to vet the horseshit stories you post?

[Mark A. Oblazney]

The problem with this guy, John, is newbies who come here (think dating service lol) trying to “hook up” with the concensus truth get a date with this john (not you lol).  There’s a few here who don’t post, or hardly at all. Are they trying to learn something new, or just confirmation bias to justify their lost time on all this?  Doubling down is quite in vogue these days, oui?

[Michael T. Griffith]

For this half-assed story to make sense, JFK's limo would have to have been driven to Bethesda. Why the hell would that have been done and what is your evidence that was done. Inquiring minds want to know.

Another one of your blundering, frivolous replies. Did you even actually read the OP and/or any of the links therein?

If you had gathered up the courage and objectivity to read any of the links on Dr. Young's account, you would have learned that the limo was at the White House garage, and that the two senior Navy NCOs were sent to the garage to check the limo for evidence, especially skull fragments. The White House garage was only about 20 minutes from Bethesda.

Here is an actual account written by Captain James Young on 11/21/2013. The only mention of any bullets was when he was writing about the bullets that had struck JFK. Nothing about a bullet being found in the limo.

https://www.med.navy.mil/Media/News/Article/2608993/what-price-a-rose-a-navy-physician-remembers-nov-22-1963/

Do you ever bother to vet the *&*^% stories you post?

Oh my goodness. I'm sure your subconscious asked the frontal lobe of your brain this very question.

First off, the 2013 article you are citing is a highly condensed version of the same article that I quote in the OP! The version you are citing consists of some excerpts from the full article. The excerpts were selected by a historian at the U.S. Navy Bureau of Medicine and Surgery's Office of Medical History, Andre Sobocinski. Did you not notice that the byline of the version you are citing explains that it was edited by Sobocinski? The full version of the 2013 article is 12 pages long, whereas the excerpted version you are citing is only three pages long.

Second, as I explain in the OP, the full 2013 article, titled “Navy Medicine and President Kennedy’s Autopsy: Recollections from a former White House Physician,” was based on an interview done with Dr. Young in 2001 by the Office of Medical History. You can find the full 2013 article here:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Navy_Medicine_and_President_Kennedy%E2%80%99s_Autopsy-_Recollections_from_a_former_White_House_Physician_(IA_NMAndTheKennedyAssassination).pdf

Yeah, whoops, you have posted another embarrassing gaffe. Do you ever get tired of making an absolute fool of yourself?

Moving on from Corbett's latest blundering, I should make four follow-up points about Dr. Young's disclosure:

-- Dr. Young was the chief assistant of Dr. George Burkley, JFK's personal physician. Dr. Burkley was a Navy admiral at the time. Dr. Young was a Navy captain at the time. Before JFK's body arrived at Bethesda, Burkley contacted Young and told him to prepare for the autopsy.

The rank of captain in the Navy is a very high rank; it is equivalent to a full-bird colonel in the Army, Air Force, and Marine Corps, or O-6. It is the rank immediately below admiral in the Navy.

-- Chiefs Thomas Mills and William Martinell were Dr. Young's assistants. Dr. Young was the one who ordered them to go to the White House garage to inspect JFK's limo.

-- Jan K. Herman, one of the two historians from the Office of Medical History who interviewed Dr. Young in 2001, contacted Chief Mills and asked him about Dr. Young's account. Chief Mills acknowledged the finding of the bullet and confirmed that Dr. Young later called him to verify his recollection.

-- Once Dr. Young realized that the misshapen bullet had not been addressed by the Warren Commission, he was reluctant to go public with his disclosure, which is why the 2001 interview was not published until 2013.

[John Corbett]

Another one of your blundering, frivolous replies. Did you even actually read the OP and/or any of the links therein?

If you had gathered up the courage and objectivity to read any of the links on Dr. Young's account, you would have learned that no one said the limo was driven to Bethesda. No one even implied this, and I certainly say no such thing in the OP.

The limo was in the White House garage, and the two senior Navy NCOs were sent to the garage to check the limo for evidence, especially skull fragments.

Oh my goodness.

First off, the 2013 article you are citing is a highly condensed version of the same article that I quote in the OP! The version you are citing consists of some excerpts from the full article. The excerpts were selected by a historian at the U.S. Navy Bureau of Medicine and Surgery's Office of Medical History, Andre Sobocinski. Did you not notice that the byline of the version you are citing explains that it was edited by Sobocinski? The full version of the 2013 article is 12 pages long, whereas the excerpted version you are citing is only three pages long.

Second, as I explain in the OP, the full 2013 article, titled “Navy Medicine and President Kennedy’s Autopsy: Recollections from a former White House Physician,” was based on an interview done with Dr. Young in 2001 by the Office of Medical History. You can find the full 2013 article here:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Navy_Medicine_and_President_Kennedy%E2%80%99s_Autopsy-_Recollections_from_a_former_White_House_Physician_(IA_NMAndTheKennedyAssassination).pdf

Yeah, whoops, you have posted another embarrassing gaffe. Do you ever get tired of making an absolute fool of yourself?

Moving on from Corbett's latest blundering, I should make four follow-up points about Dr. Young's disclosure:

-- Dr. Young was the chief assistant of Dr. George Burkley, JFK's personal physician. Dr. Burkley was a Navy admiral at the time. Dr. Young was a Navy captain at the time. Before JFK's body arrived at Bethesda, Burkley contacted Young and told him to prepare for the autopsy.

The rank of captain in the Navy is a very high rank; it is equivalent to a full-bird colonel in the Army, Air Force, and Marine Corps, or O-6. It is the rank immediately below admiral in the Navy.

-- Chiefs Thomas Mills and William Martinell were Dr. Young's assistants. Dr. Young was the one who ordered them to go to the White House garage to inspect JFK's limo.

-- Jan K. Herman, one of the two historians from the Office of Medical History who interviewed Dr. Young in 2001, contacted Chief Mills and asked him about Dr. Young's account. Chief Mills acknowledged the finding of the bullet and confirmed that Dr. Young later called him to verify his recollection.

-- Once Dr. Young realized that the misshapen bullet had not been addressed by the Warren Commission, he was reluctant to go public with his disclosure, which is why the 2001 interview was not published until 2013.

I don't doubt that you've found some  stories about a bullet being found in the limo by a couple of Navy NCOs. I also don't doubt that you would be gullible enough to believe them. The internet is loaded with sensational stories such as this. They are the modern equivalent of supermarket tabloids. I'll bet you used to eat those up as well.

The story makes no sense. I can believe that Dr. Young would have sent the NCOs to the White House garage if the Secret Service had found bone fragments in the limo. That would be relevant to the autopsy. Why would the Secret Service turn over a bullet to those NCOs? Did they turn over the fragmented bullet they found in the limo? Of course they didn't. So why would they turn over a bullet?

What you have demonstrated here is your complete lack of critical thinking. If you find a story anywhere that supports your belief that JFK died as the result of a conspiracy, you will accept it at face value. You don't even care if those stories are compatible with one another.

All one has to do is look at your sources and see they are obscure websites. I've never heard of any of them.

Wikimedia Commons?

WhoWhatWhy.org? Now there's a pillar of American Journalism?

Assassination Archives and Research Center (AARC)? I'll bet they wanted people to think they were associated with ARRB. It wouldn't surprise me if you think they were.

Your post reminds me of a joke from a TV commercial from a couple decades ago.

"You can't put something on the internet that isn't true."

"Where did you hear that."

"On the internet."

[John Corbett]

I went to the Navy's website to find the original article and this is what it had to say:

"They picked up the bullet off of the floor in the back of the car. Well, I
decided that this is something, you know, the third bullet has never been decided
about ever, apparently. So what I did was I decided there was only person still alive
from the original Warren Commission. I went through the entire Warren
Commission book. I've got the whole report of the Warren Commission as a matter
of fact. I went through the whole thing and there was nothing in it.

Now, at that particular time nobody said anything about this. And I know
what we did. We brought that in, I mean Chief Martinell and Chief Mills went to the
White House, went to the Queen Mary, got the stuff off of the floor in the back seat,
brought it back out to us and we gave that to Commander Humes at the time.

I don't know what happened to it, so I decided that what I would do is I
would write to President Ford, which I did. I wrote to President Ford and asked
him, this was this past summer. I asked him about, you know, did he know anything
about this particular bullet that was given to the autopsy surgeons and he wrote me

back a very nice letter, said, "No, he didn't know anything about it, had not heard
anything about it ever." Well, at that point then I began to look around for other
issues and I found that Senator Arlen Specter had been an Assistant Counsel to the
Warren Commission. "

Young wasn't specific about who the "They" were in the opening sentence but it only makes sense that "They" were the Secret Service. The Navy NCOs were sent to retrieve the bone fragments, not search the limo. The fragments apparently were placed in an envelope which was later given to Humes.  Young might have simply assumed the envelope also contained the bullet found on the floor of the limo. Nothing I have read indicates Young actually saw a bullet. As I observed earlier that it would make no sense that the Secret Service would turn over a whole bullet to the Navy NCOs while retaining the fragmented bullet. The only thing that makes sense is that the bullet Young had heard about and the fragmented bullet the Secret Service found were one and the same and that Young simply assumed the bullet was in the envelope. Misunderstandings such as this are the source for so many of the myths surrounding the JFKA.

Humes never said anything about receiving a bullet with the bone fragments and Young never said he saw a bullet so where is the evidence a bullet was received at Bethesda