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Author Topic: Another Missed Shot That the Lone-Gunman Theory Cannot Explain  (Read 5221 times)

Offline Michael Capasse

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Re: Another Missed Shot That the Lone-Gunman Theory Cannot Explain
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2026, 01:50:19 PM »
You said three witnesses said they saw a bullet. One the second page of this thread you posted this:

Richard Dudman | The Republic 12/21/63
"A group of police officers were examining the area at the side of the street where the President was hit,
and a police inspector told me they had just found another bullet in the grass.“

Dallas Times Herald 11/23/63
"Dallas Police Lt. J. C. Day of the crime lab estimated the distance from the sixth-floor window...
to the spot where one of the bullets was recovered at 100 yards.”

You cited Dudman saying somebody told him he saw a bullet. That's hearsay. Dudman did not say he saw a bullet.

There is no record of Day saying he saw a bullet. There is no record of anyone saying he saw a bullet. All of this nonsense comes from embellishments of things people said they heard, not something they actually saw.

We can safely label claims that somebody saw a bullet in the grass or saw a bullet taken from the grass as total  BS:

Quote
You cited Dudman saying somebody told him he saw a bullet. That's hearsay. Dudman did not say he saw a bullet.

A cop told him directly - how is that hearsay?

Quote
There is no record of Day saying he saw a bullet. There is no record of anyone saying he saw a bullet. All of this nonsense comes from embellishments of things people said they heard, not something they actually saw.

He said it directly to the Dallas Times Herald - in fact, he gave an estimation of yardage - Record of it was printed in the paper on 11/23
 :D Your faulted opinion of what is or isn't hear-say are just lame excuses that don't mean very much

« Last Edit: September 02, 2026, 01:52:01 PM by Michael Capasse »

Online John Corbett

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Re: Another Missed Shot That the Lone-Gunman Theory Cannot Explain
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2026, 02:00:46 PM »
A cop told him directly - how is that hearsay?

hear·say
[ˈhɪəseɪ]

noun
hearsay (noun)
information received from other people which cannot be substantiated; rumour:

Did Dudman substantiate that a bullet was taken from the grass? No, he only told us what he heard, or more to the point, what he thinks he was told. Often people misinterpret what they are told. Either way, Dudman's account is hearsay.
Quote

He said it directly to the Dallas Times Herald - in fact, he gave an estimation of yardage - Record of it was printed in the paper on 11/23
 :D Your faulted opinion of what is or isn't hear-say are just lame excuses that don't mean very much

I have yet to see you, MTG, or anybody else provide a direct quote from Day saying he saw a bullet in the grass. I can believe after being told there was a bullet hole that he might have estimated the distance. That doesn't mean Day confirmed there had been a bullet in the grass.

Offline Michael Capasse

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Re: Another Missed Shot That the Lone-Gunman Theory Cannot Explain
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2026, 02:11:54 PM »
hear·say
[ˈhɪəseɪ]

noun
hearsay (noun)
information received from other people which cannot be substantiated; rumour:

Did Dudman substantiate that a bullet was taken from the grass? No, he only told us what he heard, or more to the point, what he thinks he was told. Often people misinterpret what they are told. Either way, Dudman's account is hearsay.
I have yet to see you, MTG, or anybody else provide a direct quote from Day saying he saw a bullet in the grass. I can believe after being told there was a bullet hole that he might have estimated the distance. That doesn't mean Day confirmed there had been a bullet in the grass.

 BS: lame
Dudman was told directly and is substantiated by the other witnesses.
The Day quote is a first hand statement to the newspaper.

hearsay/ˈhirˌsā/
"Hearsay is information or a statement you heard from someone else rather than something you saw or experienced yourself."

There is nothing hear-say about either one.
 :D You just made that up.
 
« Last Edit: September 02, 2026, 02:17:41 PM by Michael Capasse »

Online John Corbett

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Re: Another Missed Shot That the Lone-Gunman Theory Cannot Explain
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2026, 03:03:08 PM »
BS: lame
Dudman was told directly and is substantiated by the other witnesses.
The Day quote is a first hand statement to the newspaper.

hearsay/ˈhirˌsā/
"Hearsay is information or a statement you heard from someone else rather than something you saw or experienced yourself."

There is nothing hear-say about either one.
 :D You just made that up.

Still waiting for you to name just one person who is on record as saying they saw a bullet taken from the grass. In lieu of that, it is nothing more than a rumor.

Online Michael T. Griffith

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Dr. Donald Thomas's analysis of the bullet that hit the grass near the manhole cover is worth quoting at length:

Without asking Foster what spurred him to look for a bullet, or why he searched where he did, Counsel Joseph Ball queried in an offhanded aside, "Find anything?" To which Foster responded,

"Yes, sir. Found where one shot had hit the turf there at the location."

There then followed a somewhat convoluted account in which Foster variously declared that the bullet had hit a manhole cover, that it had ricocheted off the pavement surrounding the manhole cover, or that directly or indirectly, it had wound up in the turf. Foster allowed that he had not actually found a bullet but he did call the crime scene unit's attention to the spot. Predictably, the Warren Commission took no further interest in Foster's testimony. That is to say, neither the crime scene unit, or Foster's partner J.C. White, who was with Foster on the Triple Underpass, were asked about the incident.

As it happens, Dallas Times Herald reporters interviewed crime scene detective Carl Day about the incident on the day after the assassination. In these early days before gag orders had been issued, Day told reporters that he had measured the distance from the sixth floor window to the spot where the bullet had been recovered in the turf at 100 yards!

The Saturday edition of the Fort Worth Star Telegram published a photograph of the turf next to the manhole cover with the caption,

"Assassin's Bullet - One of the rifle bullets fired by the murderer of President Kennedy lies in the grass across Elm Street from the building in which the killer was hiding and from where he launched his assault."

Harry Cabluck, the news photographer who took the picture, told researcher Jim Marrs that he did not actually see the bullet but was told by someone that a bullet had struck the grass at this spot.

There were other contemporary reports. St. Louis Dispatch journalist Richard Dudman was among the witnesses in Dealey Plaza. His firsthand report states,

"A group of police officers were examining the area at the side of the street where the President was hit, and a police inspector told me they had just found another bullet in the grass."

The FBI also learned of the incident. Witness Jean Lois Hill was interviewed by agents at the Sheriffs headquarters that afternoon. Learning that she had been standing on the Dealey Plaza lawn, they asked her if she had seen a bullet hit the grass (she had not). Another witness, Hugh Betzner, told Dallas agents that he had seen police digging for a bullet in the lawn.

Researcher Jim Marrs located and interviewed two other witnesses mentioned in the FBI report: Wayne and Edna Hartman told the FBI that they had seen the ground mounded up and asked the policemen if it was the work of moles. They were told that bullets had struck the ground. Nor was Foster the only person to see the initial strike. Richard Randolph Carr testified that one shot "knocked a bunch of grass up."


Now this is very interesting, and telling: so two other people noticed that the spot of grass near the manhole cover was "mounded up," and one other person saw a bullet knock "a bunch of grass up" near the manhole cover, just as Officer Foster saw and immediately reported.

Let's continue with Dr. Thomas's analysis:

The factor which lends weight to these accounts is that the whole incident was recorded in photographs taken by Black Star photographer, Jim Murray. With the Texas School Book Depository as a backdrop, and the Hertz clock on the roof reading 12:40, patrolman Foster can be seen with other officers hovering over the manhole cover on the south side of Elm Street (Fig. 11.4). In the series of photographs a sandy-haired man with a side-wall hair cut and a dark gray suit is seen bent over and probing the turf with his left hand. He rises with his left hand making a fist--seeming to clutch something--then in the next picture his hand is stuffed deep into his left side pants pocket.

The man in the pictures was later identified by police chief Jesse Curry as an FBI agent. Yet, he has never been officially identified. Prominent in the photographs, wearing a black suit, is Deputy Sheriff Ed "Buddy" Walthers. Just before testifying to the Warren Commission, the Commission's counsel exchanged an internal memorandum containing a statement concerning Walthers and the incident.

"At one time Walthers was quoted as having found a bullet, but he seems to have backed away from this position."

This memorandum suggests that the Commission was in receipt of a report or document quoting Walthers as having found a bullet and/or subsequently retracting. No such reports or documents are now present in the Archives. In subsequent years Walthers' wife Dorothy told researcher Mark Oakes (who told this writer) that her late husband had told her they had indeed found a bullet in the grass. (Hear No Evil, Mary Ferrell Foundation Press, 2010, pp. 400-401)
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« Last Edit: Today at 06:31:31 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Online John Corbett

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Dr. Donald Thomas's analysis of the bullet that hit the grass near the manhole cover is worth quoting at length:

Without asking Foster what spurred him to look for a bullet, or why he searched where he did, Counsel Joseph Ball queried in an offhanded aside, "Find anything?" To which Foster responded,

"Yes, sir. Found where one shot had hit the turf there at the location."

There then followed a somewhat convoluted account in which Foster variously declared that the bullet had hit a manhole cover, that it had ricocheted off the pavement surrounding the manhole cover, or that directly or indirectly, it had wound up in the turf. Foster allowed that he had not actually found a bullet but he did call the crime scene unit's attention to the spot. Predictably, the Warren Commission took no further interest in Foster's testimony. That is to say, neither the crime scene unit, or Foster's partner J.C. White, who was with Foster on the Triple Underpass, were asked about the incident.

As it happens, Dallas Times Herald reporters interviewed crime scene detective Carl Day about the incident on the day after the assassination. In these early days before gag orders had been issued, Day told reporters that he had measured the distance from the sixth floor window to the spot where the bullet had been recovered in the turf at 100 yards!

The Saturday edition of the Fort Worth Star Telegram published a photograph of the turf next to the manhole cover with the caption,

"Assassin's Bullet - One of the rifle bullets fired by the murderer of President Kennedy lies in the grass across Elm Street from the building in which the killer was hiding and from where he launched his assault."

Harry Cabluck, the news photographer who took the picture, told researcher Jim Marrs that he did not actually see the bullet but was told by someone that a bullet had struck the grass at this spot.

There were other contemporary reports. St. Louis Dispatch journalist Richard Dudman was among the witnesses in Dealey Plaza. His firsthand report states,

"A group of police officers were examining the area at the side of the street where the President was hit, and a police inspector told me they had just found another bullet in the grass."

The FBI also learned of the incident. Witness Jean Lois Hill was interviewed by agents at the Sheriffs headquarters that afternoon. Learning that she had been standing on the Dealey Plaza lawn, they asked her if she had seen a bullet hit the grass (she had not). Another witness, Hugh Betzner, told Dallas agents that he had seen police digging for a bullet in the lawn.

Researcher Jim Marrs located and interviewed two other witnesses mentioned in the FBI report: Wayne and Edna Hartman told the FBI that they had seen the ground mounded up and asked the policemen if it was the work of moles. They were told that bullets had struck the ground. Nor was Foster the only person to see the initial strike. Richard Randolph Carr testified that one shot "knocked a bunch of grass up."


Now this is very interesting, and telling: so two other people noticed that the spot of grass near the manhole cover was "mounded up," and one other person saw a bullet knock "a bunch of grass up" near the manhole cover, just as Officer Foster saw and immediately reported.

Let's continue with Dr. Thomas's analysis:

The factor which lends weight to these accounts is that the whole incident was recorded in photographs taken by Black Star photographer, Jim Murray. With the Texas School Book Depository as a backdrop, and the Hertz clock on the roof reading 12:40, patrolman Foster can be seen with other officers hovering over the manhole cover on the south side of Elm Street (Fig. 11.4). In the series of photographs a sandy-haired man with a side-wall hair cut and a dark gray suit is seen bent over and probing the turf with his left hand. He rises with his left hand making a fist--seeming to clutch something--then in the next picture his hand is stuffed deep into his left side pants pocket.

The man in the pictures was later identified by police chief Jesse Curry as an FBI agent. Yet, he has never been officially identified. Prominent in the photographs, wearing a black suit, is Deputy Sheriff Ed "Buddy" Walthers. Just before testifying to the Warren Commission, the Commission's counsel exchanged an internal memorandum containing a statement concerning Walthers and the incident.

"At one time Walthers was quoted as having found a bullet, but he seems to have backed away from this position."

This memorandum suggests that the Commission was in receipt of a report or document quoting Walthers as having found a bullet and/or subsequently retracting. No such reports or documents are now present in the Archives. In subsequent years Walthers' wife Dorothy told researcher Mark Oakes (who told this writer) that her late husband had told her they had indeed found a bullet in the grass. (Hear No Evil, Mary Ferrell Foundation Press, 2010, pp. 400-401)
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Much ado about nothing.

That pretty much describes the nearly 63 year long snipe hunt the conspiracy hobbyists have been on. And what do they have to show for their efforts? A hole in the ground.