Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Another Missed Shot That the Lone-Gunman Theory Cannot Explain  (Read 1022 times)

Online Michael T. Griffith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1901
    • JFK Assassination Website
Re: Another Missed Shot That the Lone-Gunman Theory Cannot Explain
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2026, 04:02:49 PM »
MTG seems incapable of grasping that his numerous factoids are completely illogical.

Anyone who reads the OP and Capasse's and my replies in this thread will laugh at this statement.

Is the photo of the hole a "factoid"? What in the world would have created that hole in such a way as to make Officer Foster feel certain it was a bullet strike?

Is Officer Foster's WC testimony a "factoid"? (Note: Foster told the WC that he saw a bullet hit the grass, and that he assumed the bullet had ricocheted out of the hole.)

Is Dudman's account of being told by a police inspector that bullet had been found in the grass a "factoid"?

Is the fact that Lt. Day told the Dallas Times-Herald that a bullet was recovered from the hole in the grass and that Day even estimated the distance between the hole and the sixth-floor window a "factoid"?

I just have to laugh at this howler:

Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on August 26, 2026, 08:23:03 PM
Obviously, he has no rational explanation for what created the hole and its accompanying mound in the grass, . . .


I don't need a rational explanation. I'm not the one claiming it is a bullet hole. The burden of proof is on those making the claim that it is a bullet hole. Nobody has the burden to prove it is not.

You "don't need a rational explanation"?! LOL! Yeah, who needs rational explanations, right?!

No, of course you're not the one claiming it is a bullet hole. No kidding. Officer Foster, Deputy Sheriff Walthers, Richard Dudman, Lt. J. C. Day, and reporters at two Dallas-Fort Worth newspapers said the hole was made by a bullet. Foster, Walthers, Day, and the Fort Worth Star-Telegram reporter saw the hole. Foster saw the hole made and recognized it as a bullet strike, and never wavered from that position.

Since you say they were all wrong, it is up to you to explain why they were wrong and what made the hole in the grass if it wasn't a bullet.

You are still ducking and dodging about what made the dug-out hole if it was not made by a bullet and about why Foster was certain that a bullet made the hole.

This thread is a perfect example of your abject refusal to deal honestly and credibly with facts that refute your theory of the shooting. No matter how clear and compelling the evidence is, no matter how well corroborated the evidence is, you won't budge but instead will offer lame, vacuous evasions and falsehoods.


« Last Edit: August 28, 2026, 04:10:19 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Online John Corbett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2315
Re: Another Missed Shot That the Lone-Gunman Theory Cannot Explain
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2026, 06:11:38 PM »
Anyone who reads the OP and Capasse's and my replies in this thread will laugh at this statement.

If only you could hear what people think.
Quote

Is the photo of the hole a "factoid"? What in the world would have created that hole in such a way as to make Officer Foster feel certain it was a bullet strike?

There was no hole. It was crack caused by a bullet fragment which struck the windshield from the inside. Why are you willing to believe Foster but not the Secret Service agents who closely examined the windshield in the White House garage that night?
Quote

Is Officer Foster's WC testimony a "factoid"? (Note: Foster told the WC that he saw a bullet hit the grass, and that he assumed the bullet had ricocheted out of the hole.)

Much of what Foster said is his assumptions. You combined his assumptions with your lies to create a factoid. Foster did not say he saw a bullet hit the grass. This is what he told the WC:

Mr. FOSTER - I moved to -down the roadway there, down to see if I could find where any of he shots hit.
Mr. BALL - Find anything?
Mr. FOSTER - Yes, sir. Found where one shot had hit the turf there at the location.
Mr. BALL - Hit the turf?

All he saw was a hole in the grass and he just assumed it was caused by a bullet just as he assumed it had ricocheted out of the hole.
Quote

Is Dudman's account of being told by a police inspector that bullet had been found in the grass a "factoid"?

I don't know what Dudman was told. I know there was no bullet found in the grass. According to Foster's account, the bullet had ricocheted out. That doesn't square with the bullet being found in the grass.
Quote

Is the fact that Lt. Day told the Dallas Times-Herald that a bullet was recovered from the hole in the grass and that Day even estimated the distance between the hole and the sixth-floor window a "factoid"?

In an event such as this, what people hear and what actually happened are not necessarily one and the same. A lot of misinformation gets reported. What we know is that Foster, by his own admission, said he didn't find a bullet. The other people you have cited didn't find a bullet either. They reported what they had heard. IOW, hearsay.

If you are going to insist that a bullet was found in the grass or anywhere else, tell us who said they found it.
Quote

I just have to laugh at this howler:

You "don't need a rational explanation"?! LOL! Yeah, who needs rational explanations, right?!

I hope everyone notices that MTG has quoted a phrase out of context to hide the point that was actually being made. He did this because MTG is a liar and the biggest liars are the ones who tell half truths, as MTG has done here.
Quote

No, of course you're not the one claiming it is a bullet hole. No kidding. Officer Foster, Deputy Sheriff Walthers, Richard Dudman, Lt. J. C. Day, and reporters at two Dallas-Fort Worth newspapers said the hole was made by a bullet. Foster, Walthers, Day, and the Fort Worth Star-Telegram reporter saw the hole. Foster saw the hole made and recognized it as a bullet strike, and never wavered from that position.

They saw a hole in the turf. There is no evidence the hole was caused by a bullet. That is pure assumption.
Quote

Since you say they were all wrong, it is up to you to explain why they were wrong and what made the hole in the grass if it wasn't a bullet.

Another of your feeble attempts at shifting the burden of proof. You are the one claiming the hole they saw was caused by a bullet. Since none of these people actually saw a bullet, that is going to be quite difficult. Of course we can count on doing what you always do. Assume what you can't prove.

I don't dispute that these people saw a hole in the turf. I dispute that there is credible evidence the hole was caused by a bullet strike. You have provided no evidence it was.
Quote

You are still ducking and dodging about what made the dug-out hole if it was not made by a bullet and about why Foster was certain that a bullet made the hole.

Again, I don't have to prove what caused the hole in the turf because I don't pretend to know what caused it. You have resorted to the standard CT practice of assuming every unexplained event is evidence of a conspiracy. Since it is unknown what caused the hole in the turf, you take that as an invitation to assume it was a bullet strike. Completely illogical.
Quote

This thread is a perfect example of your abject refusal to deal honestly and credibly with facts that refute your theory of the shooting. No matter how clear and compelling the evidence is, no matter how well corroborated the evidence is, you won't budge but instead will offer lame, vacuous evasions and falsehoods.

You are the last person on this forum who has the moral authority to talk about honesty, given your long history of deceit. You have presented no facts which refute the lone gunman position. You have strung together assumptions and mixed in your own lies to create your factoids. You have been doing this sort of thing for the 35 years I have been reading your crap.

You have presented zero witnesses to a bullet being found in the turf or anywhere else along Elm St.  You have taken a hole in the turf and simply assumed it was made by a bullet. Are we supposed to believe that every hole in the turf is evidence of a bullet strike. If that is the case, I could go down to my local park and I'll bet I could find 100 bullet holes in no time.

Online Zeon Mason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1350
Re: Another Missed Shot That the Lone-Gunman Theory Cannot Explain
« Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 01:48:22 AM »
There is an “X” and a note on the 63 map of Dealey Plaza denoting the manhole cover and uprooted grass location and it has  “missed shot” Z285 written there. Somebody originally thought that Z285 was a missed shot that struck the manhole cover and then went into the grass.

That is certainly wrong if it’s the TSBD shooter because it would  be an even MORE absurd shot missing the limo To the left side and at Z285, it’s only 1.5 sec preceding Z313. Highly improbable if the rifle used was the MC rifle.

Other than Corbett dismissing witnesses, then it’s either a 2nd gunman or it’s the TSBD shooter who fired a 1st shot that for some reason missed far LEFT of the limo.

Would a 2nd gunman have missed  the entire limo that far left even if it was a shot intended to hit Greer the driver or the left front tire to cause the limo to come to a stop. ( could it be that far off due to malfunction caused by a suppressor device on the rifle  IDK)

Cannot explain the manhole cover strike / grass uprooted with the Andrew Mason
Z190-Z270-Z313 sequence.


The Tom Graves early Z124 standing up shot from TSBD is highly unlikely to have hit the manhole cover as it’s too downward an angle, and the shot supposedly buries into the asphalt.

The other LN proposed  missed 1st shots somewhere from Z140-z170 are predicated on the shot missing just RIGHT of JFK and maybe struck the street to the RIGHT side of the limo. So that does not explain a manhole cover on the left side of the limo ever being struck by any of 3 shots fired by a TSBD 6th floor shooter.

Charles idea of an unintentional accidental firing the 1st shot AS the shooter was adjusting /placing the rifle on the box platform is therefore the best LN alternative because it’s an unaimed shot. However Tague thought it was either the 2nd shot OR 3rd shot that hit curb. Opps!

One other alternative is the Dan the Man’s Z224 1st shot theory where the 3rd shot  is fired approx 2.5 sec AFTER Z313. However this one seems a little strange that the shooter was not still aiming after Z313 and just took a final unaimed no shot fired as rapidly as an MC rifle  can be operated.

The only way ANY of the above alternatives would explain the curb being hit by the bullet hitting the manhole cover requires the bullet broke up into pieces after striking the manhole cover, where some lead fragment separated completely from the copper jacket and flew across the green almost nearly horizontal to the ground, while the rest of the bullet with lead and copper jacket still joined together as a 2nd fragment that buried into the grass just a few feet away from the manhole cover.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:52:07 AM by Zeon Mason »

Online John Corbett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2315
Re: Another Missed Shot That the Lone-Gunman Theory Cannot Explain
« Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 03:59:02 AM »

Other than Corbett dismissing witnesses, then it’s either a 2nd gunman or it’s the TSBD shooter who fired a 1st shot that for some reason missed far LEFT of the limo.


Do you think everything every witness told us about the assassination is accurate? If not, you are dismissing witnesses too.

Have you bothered to consider that the hole in the turf near the manhole is NOT a bullet strike? There is no record of anyone saying they found a bullet in the turf on the southside of Elm St. There are people who said they HEARD that a bullet was found in the turf on the southside of Elm St.