Determining a Timestamp for Darnell

[Dan O'meara]

   On a good copy of the Wiegman Film, (good being relative to the early Wiegman Film Copies), you can see the Pedestal, the Top of the Pedestal, and the concrete that we see Zapruder and Sitzman walking atop on Altgens 8. There is No Zapruder & No Sitzman in any of these areas on the Wiegman Film. Same goes for the Empty Shelter behind the pedestal. Zapruder and Sitzman are not on these Wiegman Film frames that show these areas. There's a couple of these frames when Wiegman was still physically on Elm St, and 2-3 good frames when Wiegman had physically moved onto the Knoll. This is before Wiegman filmed the Hesters. One of the guys that was wearing a shirt/jacket with the white trim that encircled the shoulder, is also filmed on the knoll. I believe this is 1 of the 2 guys we see on the Bell Film near/inside the shelter behind the Bench. (Time Stamp). The absence of Zapruder and Sitzman on these Wiegman Frames calls the current timeline assigned to the Wiegman Film into question. The same goes for the Bell Film timeline being Wrong. The Bell Film shows 2 guys wearing shirts with the shoulder trim inside the shelter behind the Bench.
   During the Josiah Thompson interview of Sitzman for "Six Seconds In Dallas", Sitzman said that the 1st thing she did after getting down from the Pedestal was to go down to the bottom of the Knoll to see what was going on. (paraphrasing). She said she talked with who she thought was a SS Agent down there. She then returned to the top of the knoll. Maybe Sitzman being at the bottom, or in the process of reaching the bottom of the Knoll, explains her absence from the Wiegman Film? Zapruder's absence? I don't know.

From even the best copy of Weigman I can find and the best frame I can find, it's impossible to say whether or not Zapruder and Sitzman are on top of the pedestal. Zapruder is a black smudge against a black background and the footage is blurred and grainy.
To assert that all the film/photograph has been altered because you can't make out Zapruder in such poor quality footage is unrealistic.
If I come across better quality footage that shows, without question, that Zapruder is not on the pedestal during the Weigman footage I will concede something is seriously wrong. But I'm not anywhere near that.

Remind me again why you believe all the footage has been altered.

[Royell Storing]

From even the best copy of Weigman I can find and the best frame I can find, it's impossible to say whether or not Zapruder and Sitzman are on top of the pedestal. Zapruder is a black smudge against a black background and the footage is blurred and grainy.
To assert that all the film/photograph has been altered because you can't make out Zapruder in such poor quality footage is unrealistic.
If I come across better quality footage that shows, without question, that Zapruder is not on the pedestal during the Weigman footage I will concede something is seriously wrong. But I'm not anywhere near that.

Remind me again why you believe all the footage has been altered.

     I am challenging the Wiegman Film "TIME LINE". You immediately have knee jerked to alleging that I have claimed, ".... all the footage has been altered". This is simply Not  True.
     I am using the Wiegman Film copy on the Discovery Channel DVD, "Unsolved History JFK, Death in Dealey Plaza". Specifically, what Wiegman Film copy are you examining?   

[Tom Graves]

[Royell Storing], remind me again why you believe all the footage has been altered.

Because Dan Rather, who got to watch the confusing Zapruder film on 11/25/63 only one time (and who, understandingly, didn't take notes while doing so), ran back to the broadcasting studio as fast as he could and proceeded to tell the whole nation that it showed (among other mistakes) "the limousine turning onto Elm Street."

LOL!

[Dan O'meara]

     I am challenging the Wiegman Film "TIME LINE". You immediately have knee jerked to alleging that I have claimed, ".... all the footage has been altered". This is simply Not  True.
     I am using the Wiegman Film copy on the Discovery Channel DVD, "Unsolved History JFK, Death in Dealey Plaza". Specifically, what Wiegman Film copy are you examining?   

I'm using the Weigman version at the JFK Theorist.
Just to clarify:
1] You accept Altgens 8 shows the Hesters both lying on the grass while Zapruder and Sitzman are by the pedestal.
2] The Bell footage showing only Mrs Hester on the grass and her husband hiding out in the pergola while Zapruder and Sitzman are still moving about by the pedsestal.

The Weigman footage shows the moment Charles Hester gets up and moves to the pergola, heroically abandoning his wife.
The Weigman footage captures the moment that connects point #1 to point #2.
Are you suggesting Zapruder and Sitzman disappear between after point 1 (Altgens8) and reappear at point 2 (Bell)?
Or is it more plausible that, as Weigman runs towards the Hesters, Zapruder and Sitzman are still on top of the pedestal but the footage is too poor to pick them out?
We know Zapruder and Sitzman were still on top of the pedestal while Weigman was running towards the Hesters from the synchronisations provided by the JFK Theorist and me in this thread.
So - can you accept that the Weigman footage is too poor quality to show Zapruder and Sitzman still on the pedestal as Weigman runs towards the Hesters?

If you can provide a version of Weigman that clearly shows Zapruder and Sitzman are NOT on top of the pedestal while Weigman is running towards the Hesters then I will gladly concede that something suspicious is happening.

[Royell Storing]

I'm using the Weigman version at the JFK Theorist.
Just to clarify:
1] You accept Altgens 8 shows the Hesters both lying on the grass while Zapruder and Sitzman are by the pedestal.
2] The Bell footage showing only Mrs Hester on the grass and her husband hiding out in the pergola while Zapruder and Sitzman are still moving about by the pedsestal.

The Weigman footage shows the moment Charles Hester gets up and moves to the pergola, heroically abandoning his wife.
The Weigman footage captures the moment that connects point #1 to point #2.
Are you suggesting Zapruder and Sitzman disappear between after point 1 (Altgens8) and reappear at point 2 (Bell)?
Or is it more plausible that, as Weigman runs towards the Hesters, Zapruder and Sitzman are still on top of the pedestal but the footage is too poor to pick them out?
We know Zapruder and Sitzman were still on top of the pedestal while Weigman was running towards the Hesters from the synchronisations provided by the JFK Theorist and me in this thread.
So - can you accept that the Weigman footage is too poor quality to show Zapruder and Sitzman still on the pedestal as Weigman runs towards the Hesters?

If you can provide a version of Weigman that clearly shows Zapruder and Sitzman are NOT on top of the pedestal while Weigman is running towards the Hesters then I will gladly concede that something suspicious is happening.

      There are several issues from credible sources that you have Not taken into consideration: (1) The Thompson interview of Sitzman and her claiming that after getting down from the pedestal, she then went Down to the BOTTOM of the Knoll. (2) Wiegman detailing in "Pictures Of The Pain" that he saw SA Lem Johns UP on the knoll. Just how firm is the Wiegman ID on the Bell Film? The figure falling/running across the top of the knoll is cavalierly accepted as being Wiegman due to his wearing a Hat. Is it possible that SA Lem Johns was wearing a Hat UP on the Knoll? That I am aware of, Wiegman NEVER ID'd himself as being this figure on the Bell Film. Nor did anyone else.

[Dan O'meara]

      There are several issues from credible sources that you have Not taken into consideration: (1) The Thompson interview of Sitzman and her claiming that after getting down from the pedestal, she then went Down to the BOTTOM of the Knoll. (2) Wiegman detailing in "Pictures Of The Pain" that he saw SA Lem Johns UP on the knoll. Just how firm is the Wiegman ID on the Bell Film? The figure falling/running across the top of the knoll is cavalierly accepted as being Wiegman due to his wearing a Hat. Is it possible that SA Lem Johns was wearing a Hat UP on the Knoll? That I am aware of, Wiegman NEVER ID'd himself as being this figure on the Bell Film. Nor did anyone else.

Sitzman and Johns are completely irrelevant regarding the issue being dealt with.
How firm is the Weigman ID in Bell?
It's 100& Weigman.
You already accepted this ID but are now backtracking for some reason.
YOU must do your own analysis of the Weigman footage to determine his position when he filmed the Hesters.
You will see hie is approaching the concrete platform, just before he starts filming the Hesters his camera points downwards to reveal he is lying on this platform, thge footage is taken from floor level and use the pillars in the background to determine his reletive angle to them (I've already done this in an earlier post).
When you've done this analysis you will be 100% convinced it is Weigman in Bell.
When you are convinced of that consider the following from my previous post:

1] You accept Altgens 8 shows the Hesters both lying on the grass while Zapruder and Sitzman are by the pedestal.
2] The Bell footage showing only Mrs Hester on the grass and her husband hiding out in the pergola while Zapruder and Sitzman are still moving about by the pedsestal.

The Weigman footage shows the moment Charles Hester gets up and moves to the pergola, heroically abandoning his wife.
The Weigman footage captures the moment that connects point #1 to point #2.
Are you suggesting Zapruder and Sitzman disappear between after point 1 (Altgens8) and reappear at point 2 (Bell)?
Or is it more plausible that, as Weigman runs towards the Hesters, Zapruder and Sitzman are still on top of the pedestal but the footage is too poor to pick them out?
We know Zapruder and Sitzman were still on top of the pedestal while Weigman was running towards the Hesters from the synchronisations provided by the JFK Theorist and me in this thread.
So - can you accept that the Weigman footage is too poor quality to show Zapruder and Sitzman still on the pedestal as Weigman runs towards the Hesters?

[Royell Storing]

Sitzman and Johns are completely irrelevant regarding the issue being dealt with.
How firm is the Weigman ID in Bell?
It's 100& Weigman.
You already accepted this ID but are now backtracking for some reason.
YOU must do your own analysis of the Weigman footage to determine his position when he filmed the Hesters.
You will see hie is approaching the concrete platform, just before he starts filming the Hesters his camera points downwards to reveal he is lying on this platform, thge footage is taken from floor level and use the pillars in the background to determine his reletive angle to them (I've already done this in an earlier post).
When you've done this analysis you will be 100% convinced it is Weigman in Bell.
When you are convinced of that consider the following from my previous post:

1] You accept Altgens 8 shows the Hesters both lying on the grass while Zapruder and Sitzman are by the pedestal.
2] The Bell footage showing only Mrs Hester on the grass and her husband hiding out in the pergola while Zapruder and Sitzman are still moving about by the pedsestal.

The Weigman footage shows the moment Charles Hester gets up and moves to the pergola, heroically abandoning his wife.
The Weigman footage captures the moment that connects point #1 to point #2.
Are you suggesting Zapruder and Sitzman disappear between after point 1 (Altgens8) and reappear at point 2 (Bell)?
Or is it more plausible that, as Weigman runs towards the Hesters, Zapruder and Sitzman are still on top of the pedestal but the footage is too poor to pick them out?
We know Zapruder and Sitzman were still on top of the pedestal while Weigman was running towards the Hesters from the synchronisations provided by the JFK Theorist and me in this thread.
So - can you accept that the Weigman footage is too poor quality to show Zapruder and Sitzman still on the pedestal as Weigman runs towards the Hesters?

   I am going to stop you at your very 1st point. Sitzman was needed to steady Zapruder on the pedestal. She would have needed to help him down from that same pedestal. She is also supposed to have then gone inside the shelter with Zapruder. Based on Sitzman telling Josiah Thompson that after she got down from the pedestal, she then went DOWN to the BOTTOM of the Knoll, makes this age old stuff of Sitzman sticking to Zapruder another JFK Urban Legend. Like the bucket sitting next to the JFK Limo being stored inside the JFK Limo trunk, and Barber's thread dismantling JFK clutching at his chest/throat. If YOU are going to establish timelines, you need to stick to the FACTS. Not JFK Assassination Urban Legends that mirror the clap trap connected to the Lost Dutchman's Mine. And "snychronisations" are Not Facts. The Wiegman Film is a FACT. Sitzman and Zapruder are Not on the Pedestal or near the Pedestal on the Wiegman Film. The frames showing they are Not There are shot from Elm St and from the Knoll. 2 different views at 2 different points in time.
    On "Unsolved History JFK Death In Dealey Plaza" (2003) Discovery Channel, Gary Mack takes Wiegman on a walk-through there on the Knoll. Wiegman then describes what he did on the Knoll. At NO POINT does Wiegman mention running across the knoll like that figure we see on the Bell Film. You need to establish what is FACT and what is JFK Assassination Urban Legend/Clap Trap. To this day, NOBODY including Wiegman himself has EVER verified the figure we see running across the Knoll on the Bell Film is Wiegman.