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Author Topic: If you'll look, you'll see what I'm talking about.  (Read 103 times)

Online Tom Graves

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Note how Secret Service Agent George Hickey, having heard what he thought was a firecracker, leans far over and looks down at the pavement starting around Z-145, about one second after Oswald's first, missing-everything shot at hypothetical "Z-124," half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133.

Note how Secret Service Agent Jack Ready, on the passenger side running board, leans over to his right and turns his head around during the same time frame, and how Secret Service Agent Glen Bennett, below him, leans over far to his right, too. (He said he started looking at JFK after the firecracker-like sound and that he saw a bullet hit him in the back.)

JFK turns his head quickly to his left starting in Z-144 and then turns it back to his right and starts waving to Mary Woodward and her three journalism colleagues around Z-175.

Governor Connally, having heard the first shot and recognized it as such, first turns his head quickly to his left starting in Z-150, and then turns it far to his right, starting in Z-164, to catch a glimpse of JFK over his right shoulder. However, JBC can't "see" JFK in Z-180 (etc.) because he has turned his head far to his right, too, and has raised his arm to wave to Wooward and Co., thereby obscuring his face from JBC's view.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:43:47 PM by Tom Graves »

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Online John Corbett

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Re: If you'll look, you'll see what I'm talking about.
« Reply #1 on: Today at 02:47:01 PM »
To the best of my knowledge, Hickey never testified before the WC. The only record of his account of the assassination is his report on the incident:

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-hicke.htm

Hickey's report does not mention looking over the side of the limo to his left. He makes no mention of looking to his left upon hearing the first shot. He says his reaction was to look over his right shoulder to a sound he perceived to have come from ground level.  By his estimate, it was 2-3 seconds later that he looked to the limo and saw JFK reacting to being shot. He then heard a double report from the headshot. This tells me two things. Like other agents, he either didn't hear or recognize the first sound as a gunshot. I continue to believe the roar of the motorcycles contributed to a muffling of the sound of the first shot so that a number of people did not recognize it. The first sound he recognized as a gunshot was actually the second shot which had struck JFK. By the time JFK was hit by the second shot, Hickey is out of the frame so we can't see how he reacted to the second shot. The double report he heard as JFK was struck in the head was likely a double sound from a single shot. Perhaps it was the sonic crack of the bullet passing over his head which he would have heard a split second before the muzzle blast. As with other witnesses, we can't be certain Hickey had perfect recall of the sequence of events, but I see nothing in Hickey's report that gives us a clue as to when the first shot was fired unless one wants to believe that JFK was hit by the first shot, which I don't and I don't think you do either.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:55:47 PM by John Corbett »

Online Tom Graves

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Re: If you'll look, you'll see what I'm talking about.
« Reply #2 on: Today at 03:01:26 PM »
To the best of my knowledge, Hickey never testified before the WC. The only record of his account of the assassination is his report on the incident:

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-hicke.htm

Hickey's report does not mention looking over the side of the limo to his left. He makes no mention of looking to his left upon hearing the first shot. He says his reaction was to look over his right shoulder to a sound he perceived to have come from ground level.  By his estimate, it was 2-3 seconds later that he looked to the limo and saw JFK reacting to being shot. He then heard a double report from the headshot. This tells me two things. Like other agents, he either didn't hear or recognize the first sound as a gunshot. I continue to believe the roar of the motorcycles contributed to a muffling of the sound of the first shot so that a number of people did not recognize it. The first sound he recognized as a gunshot was actually the second shot which had struck JFK. By the time JFK was hit by the second shot, Hickey is out of the frame so we can't see how he reacted to the second shot. The double report he heard as JFK was struck in the head was likely a double sound from a single shot. Perhaps it was the sonic crack of the bullet passing over his head which he would have heard a split second before the muzzle blast. As with other witnesses, we can't be certain Hickey had perfect recall of the sequence of events, but I see nothing in Hickey's report that gives us a clue as to when the first shot was fired unless one wants to believe that JFK was hit by the first shot, which I don't and I don't think you do either.

George Hickey heard more than a generic "sound" early on.

ME: Did George Hickey say he heard a firecracker-like sound?

Perplexity AI: Yes.  Hickey’s statement says, “I heard a loud report which sounded like a firecracker,” and also that it “appeared to come from the right and rear.” He goes on to say that he later heard “two reports” that he thought were shots, so in his own account the “firecracker” description refers to the first sound, not the later pair.

. . . . . .

Regarding whether he looked "over his right shoulder" or down at the pavement after hearing the early-on firecracker-like "sound," what does the Zapruder film show?
« Last Edit: Today at 03:23:59 PM by Tom Graves »

Online John Corbett

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Re: If you'll look, you'll see what I'm talking about.
« Reply #3 on: Today at 03:37:59 PM »
George Hickey heard more than "a sound" early on.

ME: Did George Hickey say he heard a firecracker?

Perplexity AI: Yes.  Hickey’s statement says, “I heard a loud report which sounded like a firecracker,” and also that it “appeared to come from the right and rear.” He goes on to say that he later heard “two reports” that he thought were shots, so in his own account the “firecracker” description refers to the first sound, not the later pair.

. . . . . .

Regarding whether he looked "over his right shoulder" or down at the pavement after hearing the early-on firecracker-like "sound," what does the Zapruder film show?

Hickey describes the second two reports as "completely different in sound than the first report and were in such rapid succession that there seemed to be practically no time element between them." That doesn't sound to me like he was describing the second and third shots since those two came almost 5 seconds apart. "No time element between them" sounds like a description of a double sound produced by a single shot. If that is so, what Hickey described as the first shot would have actually been the second.  He estimated that the total elapsed time was about 5 seconds from the first shot he heard until the last. If  that is accurate, that's further indication he only heard the second and third shots and not the first. The sequence of events as he described them ar as follows:

1. Hickey first hears a shot.
2. Hickey looks to the right rear.
3. 2-3 seconds later, Hickey looks to JFK and sees his reaction to being shot.
4. Hickey hears a double sound and sees JFK was shot in the back of the head.

I can reconcile this account only if I believe he did not hear the first shot. The other way to reconcile it is that he got the sequence and timing of the events wrong.
Either is possible, but Hickey not hearing the first shot seems to be the more probable answer.

Online Tom Graves

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Re: If you'll look, you'll see what I'm talking about.
« Reply #4 on: Today at 03:51:29 PM »
Hickey describes the second two reports as "completely different in sound than the first report and were in such rapid succession that there seemed to be practically no time element between them." That doesn't sound to me like he was describing the second and third shots since those two came almost 5 seconds apart. "No time element between them" sounds like a description of a double sound produced by a single shot. If that is so, what Hickey described as the first shot would have actually been the second.  He estimated that the total elapsed time was about 5 seconds from the first shot he heard until the last. If  that is accurate, that's further indication he only heard the second and third shots and not the first. The sequence of events as he described them ar as follows:

1. Hickey first hears a shot.
2. Hickey looks to the right rear.
3. 2-3 seconds later, Hickey looks to JFK and sees his reaction to being shot.
4. Hickey hears a double sound and sees JFK was shot in the back of the head.

I can reconcile this account only if I believe he did not hear the first shot. The other way to reconcile it is that he got the sequence and timing of the events wrong.
Either is possible, but Hickey not hearing the first shot seems to be the more probable answer.

How could Hickey have not heard a nearby high-powered rifle shot at either "Z-124" or your beloved Z-148?

I've always heard, "Actions speak louder than words."

Regardless of the fact that he didn't remember doing it, why do you think Hickey started leaning over to look at the pavement in Z-146, even before your beloved jiggle-proved / misinterpreted-JBC-headturn-proved Z-148?
« Last Edit: Today at 03:53:29 PM by Tom Graves »

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: If you'll look, you'll see what I'm talking about.
« Reply #5 on: Today at 04:05:43 PM »


Note how Secret Service Agent George Hickey, having heard what he thought was a firecracker, leans far over and looks down at the pavement starting around Z-145, about one second after Oswald's first, missing-everything shot at hypothetical "Z-124," half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133.

Note how Secret Service Agent Jack Ready, on the passenger side running board, leans over to his right and turns his head around during the same time frame, and how Secret Service Agent Glen Bennett, below him, leans over far to his right, too. (He said he started looking at JFK after the firecracker-like sound and that he saw a bullet hit him in the back.)

JFK turns his head quickly to his left starting in Z-144 and then turns it back to his right and starts waving to Mary Woodward and her three journalism colleagues around Z-175.

Governor Connally, having heard the first shot and recognized it as such, first turns his head quickly to his left starting in Z-150, and then turns it far to his right, starting in Z-164, to catch a glimpse of JFK over his right shoulder. However, JBC can't "see" JFK in Z-180 (etc.) because he has turned his head far to his right, too, and has raised his arm to wave to Wooward and Co., thereby obscuring his face from JBC's view.

 We have to find a larger copy of the film to actually see what you're referring to.  I have analyzed this film sprocket area for years, since its release by MPI in 1998, and I can honestly say that at no time have I ever seen SS agent Ready "leans over to his right and turns his head around during the same time frame".  Ready's position, when he first appears in the film, shows him looking to his left, then his head turns and he faces forward, and before he disappears from the Z film, he looks as if he's looking in Zapruder's direction. 

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Re: If you'll look, you'll see what I'm talking about.
« Reply #5 on: Today at 04:05:43 PM »