10 Reasons to Believe That Oswald Was Innocent

[Bill Brown]

I'm guessing that you didn't bother to read the rest of the thread before you posted your reply. I also gather that your research into forensic and ballistics evidence in the JFK case has been rather insufficient.

You're the one "spewing misinformation." Again, you appear to have posted this gaffe without reading the rest of the thread, but even then you should have known better than to make such an erroneous claim.

One, no FMJ bullet would never, ever, ever produce the kind bullet fragmentation that we see on the JFK autopsy skull x-rays. Those x-rays show a "lead snowstorm" of over 40 tiny fragments in the right-frontal region, which alone automatically rules out FMJ ammo, as world-renowned forensic pathologist Dr. Vincent DiMaio pointed out:

An x-ray of an individual shot with a full metal-jacketed rifle bullet . . . usually fails to reveal any bullet fragments at all even if the bullet has perforated bone such as the skull or spine.If any fragments are seen, they are very sparse in number. . . .(Gunshot Wounds, p. 166)

In x-rays of through-and-through gunshot wounds, the presence of small fragments of metal along the wound track virtually rules out full metal-jacketed ammunition.. . . In rare instances involving full metal-jacketed centerfire rifle bullets, a few small, dust-like fragments of lead may be seen on x-ray if the bullet perforates bone. One of the most characteristic x-rays and one that will indicate the type of weapon and ammunition used is that seen from centerfire rifles firing hunting ammunition. In such a case, one will see a 'lead snowstorm'. . . . Such a picture rules out full metal-jacketed rifle ammunition or a shotgun slug. (Gunshot Wounds, p. 318)

Are we clear? Let's review: (1) In the "rare" cases when FMJ bullets do fragment if they penetrate bone, they will only leave "a few" fragments. And (2) if an x-ray shows a "lead snowstorm," this "rules out" FMJ ammo.

Two, the alleged murder weapon was a low-velocity rifle. I quote none other than FBI firearms expert Robert Frazier, who explained this to the Warren Commission:

Mr. FRAZIER. Considerably less. The recoil is nominal with this weapon, because it has a very low velocity and pressure, and just an average-size bullet weight.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is the killing power of the bullets essentially similar to the killing power at these ranges---the killing power of the rifles you have named?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. How much difference is there?
Mr. FRAZIER. The higher velocity bullets of approximately the same weight would have more killing power. This has a low velocity. . . . (3 H 414, emphasis added)

I'm guessing that you didn't bother to read the rest of the thread before you posted your reply. I also gather that your research into forensic and ballistics evidence in the JFK case has been rather insufficient.

No, I didn't bother to read through most of the thread.  Why?  Did you backpedal?

The bottom line is that you stated that "FMJ bullets will never, ever, ever fragment in this manner" as you were describing a specific manner in which the bullet which struck Kennedy in the head fragmented.  I am telling you that what you are saying is simply not true.

Full metal jacketed bullets can indeed fragment in ANY specific manner when traveling at full velocity and striking a skull.

[John Corbett]

I'm guessing that you didn't bother to read the rest of the thread before you posted your reply. I also gather that your research into forensic and ballistics evidence in the JFK case has been rather insufficient.

You're the one "spewing misinformation." Again, you appear to have posted this gaffe without reading the rest of the thread, but even then you should have known better than to make such an erroneous claim.

One, no FMJ bullet would never, ever, ever produce the kind bullet fragmentation that we see on the JFK autopsy skull x-rays. Those x-rays show a "lead snowstorm" of over 40 tiny fragments in the right-frontal region, which alone automatically rules out FMJ ammo, as world-renowned forensic pathologist Dr. Vincent DiMaio pointed out:

An x-ray of an individual shot with a full metal-jacketed rifle bullet . . . usually fails to reveal any bullet fragments at all even if the bullet has perforated bone such as the skull or spine.If any fragments are seen, they are very sparse in number. . . .(Gunshot Wounds, p. 166)

In x-rays of through-and-through gunshot wounds, the presence of small fragments of metal along the wound track virtually rules out full metal-jacketed ammunition.. . . In rare instances involving full metal-jacketed centerfire rifle bullets, a few small, dust-like fragments of lead may be seen on x-ray if the bullet perforates bone. One of the most characteristic x-rays and one that will indicate the type of weapon and ammunition used is that seen from centerfire rifles firing hunting ammunition. In such a case, one will see a 'lead snowstorm'. . . . Such a picture rules out full metal-jacketed rifle ammunition or a shotgun slug. (Gunshot Wounds, p. 318)

Are we clear? Let's review: (1) In the "rare" cases when FMJ bullets do fragment if they penetrate bone, they will only leave "a few" fragments. And (2) if an x-ray shows a "lead snowstorm," this "rules out" FMJ ammo.

Two, the alleged murder weapon was a low-velocity rifle. I quote none other than FBI firearms expert Robert Frazier, who explained this to the Warren Commission:

Mr. FRAZIER. Considerably less. The recoil is nominal with this weapon, because it has a very low velocity and pressure, and just an average-size bullet weight.
Mr. EISENBERG. Is the killing power of the bullets essentially similar to the killing power at these ranges---the killing power of the rifles you have named?
Mr. FRAZIER. No, sir.
Mr. EISENBERG. How much difference is there?
Mr. FRAZIER. The higher velocity bullets of approximately the same weight would have more killing power. This has a low velocity. . . . (3 H 414, emphasis added)

Did you ever ask yourself a simple question. How much first hand experience do you think Vincent Di Maio had with FMJ rifle ammo striking a skull. Most gun homicides are committed with handguns. Homicides with rifles are rare, a very small subset of all gun homicides. FBI stats show that more homicides are committed each year with bare hands and feet than with all rifles combined. Of homicides committed with rifles, an even smaller subset of them are committed using FMJ ammo. Of all rifle homicides committed using FMJ ammo, an even smaller subset are gunshots to the skull using FMJ ammo fired from a rifle. I'm sure most of Vincent Di Maio's experience with homicides using FMJ ammo would be with handgun ammo. Typically, handguns have about half the muzzle velocity of Oswald's Carcano, which had an average muzzle velocity of 2265 fps. Since FMJ bullets fired from a handgun have about half the velocity of Oswald's FMJ bullet, it makes no sense to believe such ammo would shatter to the same degree as those fired from Oswald's Carcano. Given the small sample size of homicides committed with FMJ rifle ammo fired into the victim's skull, it makes the statement that "no FMJ bullet would never, ever, ever produce the kind bullet fragmentation that we see on the JFK autopsy skull x-rays." a highly dubious one.

PS. Are you aware the statement you made which I quoted contains a double negative. Maybe you should remember that next time you want to chastise me for my spelling and grammar errors.   

[John Corbett]

Just to add context to my previous post regarding the number of homicides committed with rifles, AI gave the following answer:

Annual Homicides Involving Rifles in the U.S.

In the most recent full FBI dataset available (2024), 401 homicides in the United States were committed with rifles www.opencrime.us. This represents about 1.5% of all firearm homicides in that year, which totaled 23,434 www.opencrime.us.

For comparison, earlier years show a similar small share:

2019: 364 rifle homicides FBI

2018: 305 rifle homicides FBI

2017: 389 rifle homicides FBI

These numbers are far below the dominant role of handguns in U.S. homicides — which accounted for roughly two-thirds of all firearm homicides in 2024 www.opencrime.us. Rifles, while present, are a minor weapon type in the overall homicide landscape.

Key context:

Firearms were used in 85.2% of all U.S. murders in 2024 www.opencrime.us.

Handguns made up the largest single category of firearm homicides, with rifles and shotguns each representing less than 2% of all firearm homicides.

The share of rifle homicides has been relatively stable over the past decade, with slight year-to-year variation.

[John Corbett]

I used my AI app to get information about Dr. Vincent Di Maio's work in regards to the fragmentation of full metal jacket (FMJ) bullets. Here is the result:

[quote on]

Vincent Di Maio on Fragmentation of Full Metal Jacket Ammo in Skull Penetration

Vincent J. M. Di Maio, a renowned forensic pathologist and expert on gunshot wounds, has written extensively on the ballistic behavior of full metal jacket (FMJ) bullets and their interaction with bone, including the skull. In his authoritative work Gunshot Wounds: Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics, and Forensic Techniques, Di Maio explains that FMJ bullets are designed to maintain their jacket integrity during flight, but when they encounter bone, the jacket can fragment due to the high pressures and stresses involved.

How FMJ Bullets Fragment in Bone
When an FMJ bullet strikes bone, especially dense bone like the skull, the jacket can deform and break apart. This fragmentation is a result of:

High pressure and velocity from the bullet’s flight.

Bone resistance causing localized stress concentrations.

Jacket material properties — the copper or gilding metal jacket can fracture under impact, especially if the bullet is not perfectly round or if there are imperfections in the jacket layer.

Di Maio notes that fragmentation in bone is more common with FMJ than with pure lead bullets, because the jacket is more rigid and less ductile, making it more prone to cracking under the compressive and shear forces of bone contact ia800508.us.archive.org.

Forensic Pathology Context
In forensic examinations, the pattern of fragmentation can be important for:

Determining the caliber and type of bullet.

Assessing the trajectory and impact point.

Understanding the mechanism of injury in bone and soft tissue.

For skull penetration, fragmentation can lead to multiple entry wounds or bone chips being propelled into surrounding tissue, which can complicate the wound pattern and the pathologist’s reconstruction of the event.

Key Takeaway
According to Di Maio’s forensic ballistics principles, FMJ bullets can fragment in bone, including the skull, due to the combination of high-velocity impact and the rigidity of the jacket. This fragmentation is a documented phenomenon in forensic pathology and can be observed in autopsy findings, though it is not always the primary cause of injury — the bullet’s core and the bone’s reaction are equally important in determining the wound’s characteristics.

If you need a visual or technical reference, Di Maio’s Gunshot Wounds book and his other forensic pathology publications provide detailed diagrams and case-based explanations of bullet fragmentation in bone.

[quote off]

In my previous post, I suggested Di Maio might not have much direct experience with FMJ rifle gunshots to the head. However, since he did write a book about gunshot wounds, it seems probable to me he would have looked at case studies beyond his own experience and would have larger knowledge base than what he acquired through his own work as a forensic medical examiner.

MTG has made several claims about Di Maio's work which I am quite skeptical about. For one, MTG claims Di Maio changed his mind about his earlier work which accepted Oswald was the lone assassin. We only have MTG's word for this since he doesn't actually quote Di Maio rejecting his earlier belief. He goes on to claim that Di Maio said that FMJ bullets would never shatter the way that the bullet that struck  JFK's head did. This gets back to a question I raised in my earlier post. Was Di Maio speaking about FMJ rifle ammo or pistol ammo. Due to the vast difference in velocity, this is an important factor. Given MTG's practice of citing people out of context, I am highly skeptical of his claims about Di Maio's conclusions. I will give MTG the opportunity to clarify his claims by answering two simple questions.

1. Can MTG QUOTE Di Maio actually saying that he had abandoned his earlier position that Oswald was the lone assassin?

2. Can MTG provide context that would tell us Di Maio said FMJ rifle ammo would not fragment as shown in the JFK x-rays or was Di Maio speaking specifically of handgun ammo when he made that observation.

I suspect MTG has been giving us his own interpretation of what Di Maio has said on the subject but will be glad to drop my skepticism if he can provide quotes from Di Maio that specifically address the question of Oswald as the lone assassin and that he was speaking specifically of rifle ammo when he made his observations on how a FMJ bullet would fragment after striking a skull.

[Michael T. Griffith]

In his Commission testimony Captain Will Fritz was not going to let yankee federal commission members make a good Texan lie so when Commission lawyer Ball asked Fritz where Oswald said he was during the assassination Fritz responded with the truth...He told Ball that Oswald told him he was eating a cheese sandwich and apple in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...That cheese sandwich and apple was Oswald's description, not Fritz's...Ball went in to panic mode and guided Fritz back to the official story, but not before Fritz had gotten the full truth out that Oswald was eating a cheese sandwich and apple in the same 2nd Floor Lunch Room that Carolyn Arnold saw him in...That is the same cheese sandwich and apple that Frazier is talking about that the un-named employee said was on the 2nd Floor Lunch Room table after the assassination...And if it was on the table after the assassination then it had to be right there on the table when Truly & Baker confronted Oswald in that same Lunch Room...The Education Forum calls itself a research forum but it seems to be more interested in writing overbearing rules than actually discussing case-cracking solving of the case like this... 

As to the evidence that was collected against Oswald, that was a combination of defrauded evidence and that evidence which occurs when an Intelligence agent is cooperating with his being framed...

British scholar Anthony Summers was impressed with the evidence that indicates Oswald was not on the sixth floor during the shooting, noting, among other things, that Oswald correctly described Junior Jarman and Harold Norman as walking through the first-floor lunchroom at around noon, strongly indicating that he was indeed in that lunchroom at noon. If one wants to argue that Oswald made a lucky guess, such a guess would have been amazingly lucky indeed since 75 people worked in the Book Depository. Says Summers, 

Other evidence suggests that Oswald not only declared his intention of going downstairs to lunch, but actually did so. It is evidence which, with disregard for the facts, official inquiries have either probed little or ignored.

When Oswald’s coworkers left the sixth floor for their lunch break around 11:45 a.m., they left behind them an Oswald vocally impatient to come down and join them. Two, Bonnie Ray Williams and Billie Lovelady, remembered Oswald shouting to them as they went down in the elevator, “Guys! How about an elevator?” and adding words to the effect: “Close the gate on the elevator” or “Send one of the elevators back up.” Sometime after this, around noon, Bonnie Ray Williams went back to the sixth floor to eat his own lunch in peace and quiet. Later, his lunch bag, chicken bones, and empty pop bottle were found there to prove it. Williams stayed on the sixth floor until at least 12:15 p.m., perhaps until 12:20. He saw nobody, certainly not Oswald.

Under interrogation, Oswald insisted he had followed his workmates down to eat. He said he ate a snack in the first-floor lunchroom alone, but thought he remembered two black employees walking through the room while he was there. Oswald believed one of them was a colleague known as Junior, and said he would recognize the other man but could not recall his name. He said the second man was short. There were two rooms in the Book Depository where workers had lunch, the “domino room” on the first floor and the lunchroom proper on the second floor.

There was indeed a worker called Junior Jarman, and he spent his lunch break largely in the company of another black man called Harold Norman. Norman, who was indeed short, said later he ate in the domino room between 12:00 and 12:15 p.m., and indeed thought “there was someone else in there” at the time, though he couldn’t remember who. At about 12:15, Jarman walked over to the domino room, and together the two black men left the building for a few minutes. Between 12:20 and 12:25 -- just before the assassination -- they strolled through the first floor once more, on the way upstairs to watch the motorcade from a window. If Oswald was not in fact on the first floor at some stage, it is noteworthy that he described two men -- out of a staff of seventy-five -- who actually were there. This information is nowhere noted in the Warren Report. (Not In Your Lifetime: The Defining Book on the JFK Assassination, 2013, pp. 90-91)

As I point out in my article "Where Was Oswald During the Shooting?", since Oswald was seen by Eddie Piper on the first floor at noon, and since Williams was on the sixth floor at noon to eat his lunch, the only time Oswald could have gone up to the sniper's nest was after Williams left the sixth floor at 12:15 or 12:20, but Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald on the first or second floor at 12:15 or 12:20.

There is also good evidence that Oswald did not come down the stairs after the shooting. For example, Roy Truly was already heading up the stairs to the third floor when Officer Marrion Baker reached the second-floor landing and saw Oswald in the second-floor lunchroom or in the hallway leading to the lunchroom. This is a vital fact because it shows that Oswald could not have come down the stairs and gone beyond the hallway door without being seen by Truly, who was running ahead of Baker. The foyer door to the lunchroom had an automatic closer, and Truly specified that did not see the door close, which means Oswald had already been in the lunchroom a good 5-10 seconds before Truly reached the second-floor landing. To put it another way, if Baker actually saw Oswald beyond the foyer door leading to the lunchroom when he reached the second-floor landing, Oswald could not have gone through that door without being seen by Truly. I discuss this in my article "The Baker-Oswald Encounter: Proof That Oswald Did Not Shoot JFK?"

"Where Was Oswald During the Shooting?"

"The Baker-Oswald Encounter: Proof That Oswald Did Not Shoot JFK?"

[Brian Doyle]

British scholar Anthony Summers was impressed with the evidence that indicates Oswald was not on the sixth floor during the shooting, noting, among other things, that Oswald correctly described Junior Jarman and Harold Norman as walking through the first-floor lunchroom at around noon, strongly indicating that he was indeed in that lunchroom at noon. If one wants to argue that Oswald made a lucky guess, such a guess would have been amazingly lucky indeed since 75 people worked in the Book Depository. Says Summers, 

My discovery of Sarah Stanton seeing Oswald waiting on the 2nd Floor staircase landing for Mrs Reid to clear the lady employees out of the 2nd Floor Lunch Room means that Oswald could have known about Jarman and Norman entering the rear loading dock entrance when he saw or heard them going up the elevator to the 5th Floor...It is possible that Oswald did not like being caught by Stanton and went down to the 1st Floor right after his encounter with Stanton and saw Jarman and Norman at that time, however Oswald definitely went back up to the 2nd Floor Lunch Room that Mrs Reid was clearing out for him because we know Carolyn Arnold saw him there alone eating lunch like Oswald told Hosty...

I don't trust Summers because Summers ignored Earl Golz's discovery that Carolyn Arnold told FBI 12:25 in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...Summers stuck with the FBI's criminal alteration of what Carolyn Arnold told them and cannot be trusted...Summers insisted on 12:15 in the Lobby when Carolyn Arnold herself emphasized that she never said that and that she told FBI 12:25 in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...The latter being confirmed by Carolyn Arnold's March 1964 FBI statement that she was allowed to proofread that said 12:25 in plain writing...Not only did FBI alter Carolyn Arnold's statement but they also quoted Sarah Stanton as saying she never saw Oswald that day when the truth was she had a decisive witnessing of Oswald that cracks the case...While calling itself a credible research forum The Education Forum remains dedicated to ignoring this key new witnessing and most important evidence discovery of our generation and vindictively banning its source...

 

[Michael T. Griffith]

I don't trust Summers because Summers ignored Earl Golz's discovery that Carolyn Arnold told FBI 12:25 in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...Summers stuck with the FBI's criminal alteration of what Carolyn Arnold told them and cannot be trusted...Summers insisted on 12:15 in the Lobby when Carolyn Arnold herself emphasized that she never said that and that she told FBI 12:25 in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...The latter being confirmed by Carolyn Arnold's March 1964 FBI statement that she was allowed to proofread that said 12:25 in plain writing...Not only did FBI alter Carolyn Arnold's statement but they also quoted Sarah Stanton as saying she never saw Oswald that day when the truth was she had a decisive witnessing of Oswald that cracks the case...While calling itself a credible research forum The Education Forum remains dedicated to ignoring this key new witnessing and most important evidence discovery of our generation and vindictively banning its source...

You've misread Summers. Here's what he says about Carolyn Arnold and her FBI statement:

In 1963, Carolyn Arnold was secretary to the vice president of the Book Depository.14 An FBI report, omitted from the Warren Commission Report, said Arnold was standing in front of the Depository waiting for the motorcade when she “thought she caught a fleeting glimpse of Lee Harvey Oswald standing in the hallway . . . on the first floor.”

When the author contacted Arnold in 1978 to get a firsthand account, she was surprised to hear how she had been reported by the FBI. Her spontaneous reaction, that the FBI had misquoted her, came before the author explained to her the importance of Oswald’s whereabouts at given moments. Arnold’s recollection of what she observed was clear -- having spotted Oswald had been her one personal contribution to the record of that memorable day. As secretary to the company vice president she knew Oswald; he had been in the habit of coming to her for change. What she claimed she told the FBI is very different from the Bureau report of her comments.

“About a quarter of an hour before the assassination,” she said in 1978, “I went into the lunchroom on the second floor for a moment. . . . Oswald was sitting in one of the booth seats on the right-hand side of the room as you go in. He was alone as usual and appeared to be having lunch. I did not speak to him, but I recognized him clearly.”

Arnold had some reason to remember having gone into the lunchroom. She was pregnant at the time and had a craving for a glass of water. She also recalled, in 1978, that this was “about 12:15. It may have been slightly later." (Not In Your Lifetime, pp. 91-92)