Understanding the JFK Assassination Conspiracy Cover-Up

[John Corbett]

Oswald was a well-known commodity to the pro- and anti-Castro communities, especially in New Orleans – Marcello’s turf – long before the JFKA. His uncle Dutz Murret had underworld connections, which in New Orleans meant Marcello connections; the Oswald-Dutz relationship was not a distant one by any means, and Oswald knew of Dutz’s shady activities and discussed them with Marina. JFK’s trip to Dallas was known in September before Oswald visited Mexico City and reportedly made JFK-related threats. I have no idea precisely whose radar Oswald may have been on before or after his employment at the TSBD, but there are numerous possibilities for him coming to the attention of Marcello as either a possible JFKA participant or a patsy.

Also distinctly odd is Oswald’s inquiry about employment at the Allright Parking Garage just a week before the JFKA and his curious interest in the height of the building and its view of downtown Dallas. https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190240/m1/1/. I muse upon this oddity here: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4612.0.html.

It’s entirely possible, it seems to me, that Oswald had been recruited into a JFKA plot before the motorcade route was finalized and then – voila – the TSBD in which he happened to be employed turned out to be perfect for both a patsy and a pro in the Dal-Tex or County Records building when the route was finalized. I have a hard time with Orr’s theory of Oswald as a knowing participant because having him shoot from TSBD6 would have been fantastically, absurdly risky for the Mafia (i.e., if he had even the faintest inkling that this was a Mafia plot), but I can easily see him as a patsy in what he thought was a pro-Castro plot, with Marcello et al. having no reason to care if he was captured or killed.

My level of conviction is probably 80% that the LN narrative is true and 20% that a Mafia plot is true, but that 20% could go up substantially if Orr’s trajectory analysis delivers all that he and Schnapf seem to promise.

I am 100 to 0% that Oswald was the shooter. I'll generously make it 99.99 to 0.01% he was acting on behalf of anyone but himself.

You still have the problem of explaining how any plotters could have possibly known 6 weeks in advance that the TSBD was going to be a perfect location to kill JFK from. You seem to suggest that after recruiting Oswald, they got an unbelievable stroke of luck when the found out JFK's motorcade was going to ride right past Oswald's workplace. The were bringing the mountain to Mohammed. What are the odds?

Having people who knew Oswald in New Orleans isn't going to be much of a help. Do you think anyone of those people were even aware of the fact Oswald had taken the job at the TSBD. Even if they did, so what? Would those people even know the motorcade was going past the TSBD.

Oswald getting his job at the TSBD was pure happenstance. It wasn't part of any plot. What if he had taken the job at the parking garage instead of the TSBD. What would these mysterious plotters have done then. I see no plausible scenario in which Oswald taking his job at the TSBD was part of any nefarious plot. There were other reasons I gave up on being a CT but this one was as important as any of them. In 35 years of posing this question to CTs on various forums, I have yet to see a plausible answer.

[Benjamin Cole]

MTG--

The real LHO was in MC, and did meet with three KGB'ers there.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/oswald/

see about 1:05 mark.

LHO may have been impersonated while in MC, by both CIA'ers or KGB'ers, in the normal course of Spy v Spy antics. Larry Hancock thinks so. 

LHO evidently did meet with G2'ers while in MC, who, by some accounts, encouraged him to perp the JFKA.

LHO spent three or four days in MC, and no one knows where he went or met.

[John Corbett]

MTG--

The real LHO was in MC, and did meet with three KGB'ers there.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/oswald/

see about 1:05 mark.

LHO may have been impersonated while in MC, by both CIA'ers or KGB'ers, in the normal course of Spy v Spy antics. Larry Hancock thinks so. 

LHO evidently did meet with G2'ers while in MC, who, by some accounts, encouraged him to perp the JFKA.

How did these G2ers know that two months later Oswald would have a perch overlooking the motorcade route. Oswald didn't even know that.

LHO spent three or four days in MC, and no one knows where he went or met.

Do you realize you contradicted yourself in just two sentences. After telling us he met with G2ers, you now say no one know who he met.

CTs never seem to care if the pieces of their puzzle actually fit together. They just say anything that pops into their heads if it sounds good to them at the time.

[Lance Payette]

I am 100 to 0% that Oswald was the shooter. I'll generously make it 99.99 to 0.01% he was acting on behalf of anyone but himself.

You still have the problem of explaining how any plotters could have possibly known 6 weeks in advance that the TSBD was going to be a perfect location to kill JFK from.

How many times do I have to say they didn't have to know in advance? Did LN Oswald have to know 6 weeks in advance?

You seem to suggest that after recruiting Oswald, they got an unbelievable stroke of luck when the found out JFK's motorcade was going to ride right past Oswald's workplace. The were bringing the mountain to Mohammed. What are the odds?

What are the odds of many things in the JFKA? What are the odds of the SBT, the Magic Bullet, the Ruby hit, many other aspects of the LN narrative? In the LN scenario, what are the odds TSBD6 would just happen to be an ideal location? One could go on and on.

Having people who knew Oswald in New Orleans isn't going to be much of a help. Do you think anyone of those people were even aware of the fact Oswald had taken the job at the TSBD. Even if they did, so what? Would those people even know the motorcade was going past the TSBD.

If Oswald was actively on the radar screen of someone like Marcello through Murret, or in communication with pro- or anti-Castro types, they certainly could have known when JFK's trip to Dallas was announced that Oswald was in Dallas and then when he took the job at the TSBD.The job at least placed him in downtown Dallas. Oswald's apparent scouting of the Allright Parking Garage a mere week before the JFKA could suggest he was going to be used "somewhere" in Dallas.

Oswald getting his job at the TSBD was pure happenstance. It wasn't part of any plot. What if he had taken the job at the parking garage instead of the TSBD. What would these mysterious plotters have done then. I see no plausible scenario in which Oswald taking his job at the TSBD was part of any nefarious plot. There were other reasons I gave up on being a CT but this one was as important as any of them. In 35 years of posing this question to CTs on various forums, I have yet to see a plausible answer.

There is "outside the box" thinking, and then there is "so locked into the box that I don't even realize I'm in it" thinking. Yes, I agree, the TSBD was pure happenstance. That does not rule out a plot. Oswald never even filed an application with the Allright garage - he may have just been on an assignment to scout locations, or he may have done this entirely on his own as part of the LN scenario.

The debate will go on unless something definitively proves that the shots could not have been fired by one gunman.

I happened to notice this from Pat Speer at the Ed Forum today. Note that, as others described, two shots happened in such rapid succession that a bystander who was attributing the "first" shot to a firecracker could not even finish his sentence before the next two followed:

Robert Jackson, a Dallas Times Herald photographer, was sitting on the right rear seat of the car. (11-22-63 interview on KRLD radio, at approximately 3:15 P.M.) "We were just turning the corner and a gunman would have about a 45' angle from the buildings to the car. I looked to my left and I could see both cars in front speeding off, the President's car and the car behind him carrying the Vice President. They disappeared under the underpass. Then I could see a colored family covering up their child on the grass. A policeman was down on his knee. I couldn't tell if he were hit. I thought the child was dead or something. Then the negro parents picked up the boy and ran. (On the shots at Kennedy and Connally) As soon as I saw the rifle, I knew someone was trying to kill them, but it never entered my mind that he could be dead. I just couldn't believe it at first." (11-22-63 AP eyewitness account, sent over the teletype at 3:47 PM CST) “When we heard the first shot, the president had already turned the corner. We had not made the corner yet. Then we heard two more shots. As far as I know, three shots were all I heard...Since I was facing the building where the shots were coming from, I just glanced up and saw two colored men straining to look at a window just above them. As I looked up to the window above, I saw a rifle being pulled back in the window. It might have been resting on the window sill. I did not see a man. I didn't even see if it had a scope on it...The President's car was about halfway between Houston Street and the underpass.” (11-23-63 AP article found in the L.A. Times) "Bob Jackson, a photographer for the Dallas Times Herald, heard one shot, then two rapid bursts as he rode in an open convertible in the presidential motorcade." (11-23-63 FBI report based upon an 11-22-63 interview, CD5 p.15) “he advised the car in which he was riding was proceeding north on Houston Street…and the presidential car had already turned left on Elm Street…when he heard three loud reports which sounded like shots from a gun.  He stated that there was a “pause” after the first shot, followed by the second and third shots in rapid succession. Jackson advised that upon hearing the three shots, he looked upward and straight ahead at a window in the Texas School Book Depository…in time to see the barrel of a rifle being pulled inside the window.” (3-10-64 testimony before the Warren Commission, 2H155-165) “I was in the process of unloading a camera and I was to toss it out of the car as we turned right onto Houston Street to one of our reporters…And that I did as we turned the corner…as I threw it out the wind blew it, caught it and blew it out into the street and our reporter chased it out into the street, and the photographers in our car, one of the photographers, was a TV cameraman whom I do not recall as his name , and he was joking about the film being thrown out and he was shooting my picture of throwing the film out… Well as our reporter chased that film out in the street, we all looked back at him and were laughing, and it was approximately that time that we heard the first shot, and we had already rounded the corner, of course, when we heard the first shot. We were approximately half a block on Houston Street…as we heard the first shot, I believe it was Tom Dillard from Dallas News who made some remark as to that sounding like a firecracker, and it could have been somebody else who said that. But someone else did speak up and make that comment and before he actually finished the sentence we heard the other two shots…We were still moving slowly, and after the third shot the second two shots seemed much closer together than the first shot, than they were to the first shot.” (Interview presented on the Capitol Records release The Controversy, 1967) (After the shooting) "We looked around and I just looked straight up ahead, and the first thing I saw was these two negro men in the window. And immediately my eyes just followed up to where they were looking. And that's when I saw the rifle. I saw no figure behind the rifle. All I could was about 3/4 of the rifle, maybe for no more than a second."

[Michael T. Griffith]

WC defenders ignore or summarily brush aside the fact that on November 16-17, five days before the assassination, David Ferrie spent the weekend with Mafia kingpin Carlos Marcello at Marcello's Churchill Farms estate. Supposedly, the two were discussing "defense strategy" for the final week of Marcello's deportation trial in federal court. However, strangely enough, Marcello’s attorneys were not there.. Humm. . . . Ferrie was no lawyer. It is very hard imagine what legal strategy Marcello and Ferrie could have discussed for two entire days; it is also hard to fathom how a weekend-long legal defense strategy meeting would not have included at least one of Marcello's attorneys. Dr. Richard Mahoney correctly and logically suspects that Marcello and Ferrie were finalizing some of the details of the planned assassination of JFK in Dallas (The Kennedy Brothers: The Rise and Fall of Jack and Bobby, 2017 edition, p. 386).

[John Corbett]

How many times do I have to say they didn't have to know in advance? Did LN Oswald have to know 6 weeks in advance?

It isn't enough to say it. You need a plausible explanation. It seems far fetched that the Mafia or any other entity would have chosen Oswald as their shooter/patsy without knowing in advance he would be handed a golden opportunity to shoot JFK from his workplace. Oswald didn't need to know in advance that taking the job at the TSBD would provide him with that opportunity. Killing JFK would have been the furthest thing on his mind when he took that job. He took it so he could feed his family. So did Oswald just get lucky? Yes, he did and that might seem far-fetched too. If Oswald was the only twisted individual in the country with a propensity to do what he did, it would have been a remarkable piece of bad luck that JFK would cross paths with him. But we don't know how many dozens, maybe hundreds of similarly twisted individuals there were around the country at the time who would have done what Oswald did if given the opportunity. Combine that with a President who had a fondness from riding through crowded urban streets in a slow moving open top car, it doesn't seem remarkable at all that JFK would happen to end up within easy rifle range of one of them. It was Oswald who happened to be the one who won the assassin's lottery.

What are the odds of many things in the JFKA? What are the odds of the SBT, the Magic Bullet, the Ruby hit, many other aspects of the LN narrative? In the LN scenario, what are the odds TSBD6 would just happen to be an ideal location? One could go on and on.

I just dealt with the issue of odds. I don't need to repeat myself.

If Oswald was actively on the radar screen of someone like Marcello through Murret, or in communication with pro- or anti-Castro types, they certainly could have known when JFK's trip to Dallas was announced that Oswald was in Dallas and then when he took the job at the TSBD.The job at least placed him in downtown Dallas. Oswald's apparent scouting of the Allright Parking Garage a mere week before the JFKA could suggest he was going to be used "somewhere" in Dallas.

Of all the people the Mafia could have chosen to do a hit, why the hell would they pick somebody like Oswald and why would they pick him without knowing the opportunity he would have one day?

Ditto for the pro/anti/Castro groups.

Why would Oswald be scouting a shooting location without knowing where the motorcade be going or even if there was going to be a motorcade.

There is "outside the box" thinking, and then there is "so locked into the box that I don't even realize I'm in it" thinking. Yes, I agree, the TSBD was pure happenstance. That does not rule out a plot. Oswald never even filed an application with the Allright garage - he may have just been on an assignment to scout locations, or he may have done this entirely on his own as part of the LN scenario.

I've already said countless times that the time for being open minded about Oswald's innocence expired a long time ago. That is idiotic. So I freely admit I am "locked into the box" of Oswald's guilt. As I said earlier, I leave the door open a very tiny crack to the possibility he was working in cahoots with somebody else. To be convinced of that, I would have to see compelling evidence of that. Wild speculation is a poor substitute for actual evidence.

The debate will go on unless something definitively proves that the shots could not have been fired by one gunman.

That is problematic because the evidence tells us the shots definitely were fired by one man. There is zero evidence of another. Do you think after 62 years, some additionaly evidence is going to magicly appear that will force us to completely rethink the JFKA.

The evidence is all out on the table. Anybody who thinks there is going to be more forthcoming is fooling themselves. If they can't make their case for conspiracy with what they have now, they never will. There's a greater chance they will find Amelia Earhart and Jimmy Hoffa before anyone finds any credible evidence anyone other than Oswald took part in the JFKA.

I happened to notice this from Pat Speer at the Ed Forum today. Note that, as others described, two shots happened in such rapid succession that a bystander who was attributing the "first" shot to a firecracker could not even finish his sentence before the next two followed:

Oh, goody. Another witness with another version of how they think it happened. Forgive me if I ignore this one.

[John Corbett]

WC defenders ignore or summarily brush aside the fact that on November 16-17, five days before the assassination, David Ferrie spent the weekend with Mafia kingpin Carlos Marcello at Marcello's Churchill Farms estate. Supposedly, the two were discussing "defense strategy" for the final week of Marcello's deportation trial in federal court. However, strangely enough, Marcello’s attorneys were not there.. Humm. . . . Ferrie was no lawyer. It is very hard imagine what legal strategy Marcello and Ferrie could have discussed for two entire days; it is also hard to fathom how a weekend-long legal defense strategy meeting would not have included at least one of Marcello's attorneys. Dr. Richard Mahoney correctly and logically suspects that Marcello and Ferrie were finalizing some of the details of the planned assassination of JFK in Dallas (The Kennedy Brothers: The Rise and Fall of Jack and Bobby, 2017 edition, p. 386).

CTs love when they get a blank sheet of paper they can fill with their wild speculations.