JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate

CTers: Do yourself a favor and focus on plausibility

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John Corbett:

--- Quote from: Lance Payette on June 04, 2026, 11:18:53 PM ---You continue to live in your own little LN Bubble that is as impermeable as any Conspiracy Bubble.
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That's a good thing. It keeps me from getting silly ideas for which there is no evidence. CTs continue to assume there was a conspiracy despite never providing any evidence of such.
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Mr. Pretend Lawyer strikes again. In 1963, any participant in the JFKA - up to and including LBJ - would have faced a certain sentence of execution.
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Yes, that is what I said. 
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You optimistically assume none of these would have been carried out by 1972. In 1963, the average time between sentencing and execution was far less than eight years - some sources say two. Apart from all this, my point was that anyone planning a Presidential assassination in 1963 would have known "We're all looking at execution if this goes south."
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Only one man who committed a murder after the JFKA was executed for his crime and that was a man who chose not to appeal his sentence. Everyone else who was on death row extended the appeals process beyond 1967 when there was a de facto moratorium on executions because of cases working their way up to SCOTUS. The only way Oswald would have been executed would have been if he chose not to take advantage of the appeals process and accepted his death sentence.
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But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about plausible conspiracy theories.
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As far as the JFKA is concerned, "plausible conspiracy theories" is an oxymoron. No one has ever come up with one for which there is any evidence. There are lots of make believe conspiracy theories.
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For that matter, there are plausible conspiracies that can accommodate pretty much everything the LN narrative posits.
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Maybe you can share one with us. The only one that is even theoretical/y possible is one in which Oswald conspired with maybe one or two individuals for which no evidence was ever found. In that circumstance, the evidence would be exactly what it is, but since there is no evidence of such a small conspiracy and the fact Oswald was a loner his whole life, I see no reason to believe even a small conspiracy existed.
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OK, and so? One of my stated parameters is that the only two plausible conspiratorial roles for Oswald were as a knowing gunman in a pro-Castro conspiracy or as a patsy gunman in what he thought was a pro-Castro conspiracy.
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Such a conspiracy would out of necessity been put together in just a matter of days because the motorcade route was not made public until the Monday of that week.
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The SBT posits a so-called Magic Bullet that emerges nearly pristine even after the damage caused to JBC.
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Oh, Christ. Are you still peddling that old wives' tale. The bullet was not nearly pristine. It was flattened at the base indicating it was tumbling when it first struck bone. Full metal jacket bullets are designed not to deform when passing through soft tissue which CE399 did when it went through JFK's torso. Such a bullet tumbles upon exiting which has been shown experimentally. The shape of the entry wound on JBC's back indicates it did not enter nose first.   The only way that happens is if the bullet had struck something else first, like JFK's torso.
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The SBT requires JFK's clothes to have been bunched to accommodate the misaligned holes in his clothing and body, and even then it's difficult to make it work.
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Where the hell are you going with this. Are you saying the bullet that went through his clothing isn't the one that entered his back. That would require a real Magic Bullet.
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The provenance of the Magic Bullet is uncertain at best, with Landis claiming he found it on the back seat of the limousine.
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Landis claim is quite dubious given that he waited 60 years to tell anybody about it and it would make him look like an idiot because anyone with an ounce of sense would know that was a really important piece of evidence. Even if it is true, it does nothing to invalidate the SBT.
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One of the victims, JBC, rejected it.
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JBC rejected the SBT because he had been told JFK was hit by the first shot and he knew he had been hit by the second shot. It follows that if JFK was hit by the second shot, which he was, then they were both hit by the same shot.
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The witnesses such as Baker who described a very quick bang-bang sequence are problematical for the SBT. The SBT may be correct, but it is far from rock-solid.
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Marrion Baker was on Houston St. when the shots were fired. How the hell would he know which shots hit JFK and JBC.
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You once again continue to play the "no evidence" game as though saying this made it true.
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You could prove me wrong by presenting evidence of your goofy theories but you never do.
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The supposed confessions by Trafficante and Marcello are evidence for Mafia involvement.
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Supposed? You really are reaching now.
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They are not evidence that will ever be tested in court, but none of the evidence has ever been tested in court other than in the artificial environment of a mock trial. All we can do is attempt to determine how credible any piece of evidence is and how much weight it should receive.
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That is true but the bad news is you are really bad at weighing evidence as you have just demonstrated. Don't feel too bad. Most CTs have the same problem. Do you ever bother to think these things through before you post them. I feel like I'm back in 1991 debunking the same old nonsense I was dealing with back then.
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This is the the reason I urge CTers to focus on the theories that are actually plausible and the evidence supporting them.

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It seems to me the first step should be to come up with a plausible conspiracy theory supported by evidence which no one ever has.

Lance Payette:
"What about Larry Hancock and John Newman?" screams the peanut gallery. "They know way more than you, bub."

Well, they know way more about some JFKA-related things, I'm sure. I think Newman and his crowd are driven by motives other than trying to solve the JFKA. There is no way the conspiracy they posit - whatever the hell it is - has any real-world plausibility. It's all dark intrigue and speculation, peppered with names and acronyms and documents until your eyes glaze over (or at least mine do). IMHO, they'll never connect it to Dealey Plaza.

Larry Hancock's work would fit into my category 4 and is certainly more plausible than Newman's. As with Newman, however, you are overwhelmed with names and acronyms and whatnot, and it's all just too elaborate for me to find it believable, nor have I seen anything convincingly tying Oswald into the plot.

I always remind myself and others that Newman is also the author of Quest for the Kingdom: The Secret Teachings of Jesus in the Light of Yogic Mysticism, a weird but undeniably scholarly book that I have never even seen mentioned in my vast Christian-oriented reading. Hancock is the author of Unidentified; The National Security Problem of UFOs, which I likewise have never even seen mentioned in my vast UFO-oriented reading. This is not to minimize their work - I found Newman's book fascinating - but just to emphasize that though they may seem to be "major figures" in the JFKA community they are pretty much fringe figures in other areas into which they have waded.

Just my $0.02 worth and where I would - and do - focus my attention if I were open to JFKA conspiracy theories.

P.S. - I'm not going to try to deal with John C.'s goofy formatting, but there were 46 executions between 1963 and 1967. WHAT THE HELL is the point, other than arguing for the sake of arguing? No one involved in the JFKA was thinking, "Hey, the way the law is trending we may only spend life in prison instead of being executed." What a weirdo.

John Corbett:

--- Quote from: John Corbett on June 04, 2026, 11:57:56 PM ---That's a good thing. It keeps me from getting silly ideas for which there is no evidence. CTs continue to assume there was a conspiracy despite never providing any evidence of such.
Yes, that is what I said. 
Only one man who committed a murder after the JFKA was executed for his crime and that was a man who chose not to appeal his sentence. Everyone else who was on death row extended the appeals process beyond 1967 when there was a de facto moratorium on executions because of cases working their way up to SCOTUS. The only way Oswald would have been executed would have been if he chose not to take advantage of the appeals process and accepted his death sentence.
As far as the JFKA is concerned, "plausible conspiracy theories" is an oxymoron. No one has ever come up with one for which there is any evidence. There are lots of make believe conspiracy theories.
Maybe you can share one with us. The only one that is even theoretical/y possible is one in which Oswald conspired with maybe one or two individuals for which no evidence was ever found. In that circumstance, the evidence would be exactly what it is, but since there is no evidence of such a small conspiracy and the fact Oswald was a loner his whole life, I see no reason to believe even a small conspiracy existed.
Oh, Christ. Are you still peddling that old wives' tale. The bullet was not nearly pristine. It was flattened at the base indicating it was tumbling when it first struck bone. Full metal jacket bullets are designed not to deform when passing through soft tissue which CE399 did when it went through JFK's torso. Such a bullet tumbles upon exiting which has been shown experimentally. The shape of the entry wound on JBC's back indicates it did not enter nose first.   The only way that happens is if the bullet had struck something else first, like JFK's torso.
Where the hell are you going with this. Are you saying the bullet that went through his clothing isn't the one that entered his back. That would require a real Magic Bullet.
Landis claim is quite dubious given that he waited 60 years to tell anybody about it and it would make him look like an idiot because anyone with an ounce of sense would know that was a really important piece of evidence. Even if it is true, it does nothing to invalidate the SBT.
JBC rejected the SBT because he had been told JFK was hit by the first shot and he knew he had been hit by the second shot. It follows that if JFK was hit by the second shot, which he was, then they were both hit by the same shot.
Marrion Baker was on Houston St. when the shots were fired. How the hell would he know which shots hit JFK and JBC.
You could prove me wrong by presenting evidence of your goofy theories but you never do.
Supposed? You really are reaching now.
That is true but the bad news is you are really bad at weighing evidence as you have just demonstrated. Don't feel too bad. Most CTs have the same problem. Do you ever bother to think these things through before you post them. I feel like I'm back in 1991 debunking the same old nonsense I was dealing with back then.
It seems to me the first step should be to come up with a plausible conspiracy theory supported by evidence which no one ever has.

--- End quote ---

John Corbett:

--- Quote from: Lance Payette on June 05, 2026, 12:09:55 AM ---"What about Larry Hancock and John Newman?" screams the peanut gallery. "They know way more than you, bub."

Well, they know way more about some JFKA-related things, I'm sure. I think Newman and his crowd are driven by motives other than trying to solve the JFKA. There is no way the conspiracy they posit - whatever the hell it is - has any real-world plausibility. It's all dark intrigue and speculation, peppered with names and acronyms and documents until your eyes glaze over (or at least mine do). IMHO, they'll never connect it to Dealey Plaza.

Larry Hancock's work would fit into my category 4 and is certainly more plausible than Newman's. As with Newman, however, you are overwhelmed with names and acronyms and whatnot, and it's all just too elaborate for me to find it believable, nor have I seen anything convincingly tying Oswald into the plot.

I always remind myself and others that Newman is also the author of Quest for the Kingdom: The Secret Teachings of Jesus in the Light of Yogic Mysticism, a weird but undeniably scholarly book that I have never even seen mentioned in my vast Christian-oriented reading. Hancock is the author of Unidentified; The National Security Problem of UFOs, which I likewise have never even seen mentioned in my vast UFO-oriented reading. This is not to minimize their work - I found Newman's book fascinating - but just to emphasize that though they may seem to be "major figures" in the JFKA community they are pretty much fringe figures in other areas into which they have waded.

Just my $0.02 worth and where I would - and do - focus my attention if I were open to JFKA conspiracy theories.

P.S. - I'm not going to try to deal with John C.'s goofy formatting, but there were 46 executions between 1963 and 1967. WHAT THE HELL is the point, other than arguing for the sake of arguing? No one involved in the JFKA was thinking, "Hey, the way the law is trending we may only spend life in prison instead of being executed." What a weirdo.

--- End quote ---

Completely irrelevant. All of those executions were for murders committed prior to the JFKA and the condemned had run out their appeals process. Oswald would have had the same multi-layered appeals process available to him as the other murderers. For a comparison, the In Cold Blood murderers Perry Smith and Dick Hickock committed their gruesome murders in November of 1959 and weren't executed until April of 1965. A similar length appeals process for Oswald would have extended to 1969, when there was a moratorium on executions so Oswald would have still been on death row in 1972 when SCOTUS spared the life of all prisoners on death row and commuted their sentences to life in prison. It is extremely unlikely Oswald would have been executed had Jack Ruby not shot him.

Steve M. Galbraith:
FYI, there were five executions done in Texas in 1964. All were black men and two three did not involve murder.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_in_Texas,_1960%E2%80%931964#cite_note-5

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