JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate

CTers: Do yourself a favor and focus on plausibility

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Michael T. Griffith:
Given that surveys have repeatedly shown that only 1/4 to 1/3 of the Western world believes the lone-gunman theory, you and your fellow WC apologists are the ones who need to focus on plausibility.

I find it so curious that you guys talk like you represent the mainstream, the majority, and that those who posit a conspiracy in the case are a fringe minority, when in fact your view is rejected by 2/3 to 3/4 of the Western world, when we now know that even three members of the WC did not buy the Commission's story, and when the last official U.S. Government investigation--the HSCA--concluded that the WC failed to follow up on evidence that indicated conspiracy, that two gunmen were involved, that four shots were fired, that one of the shots came from the grassy knoll, that Silvia Odio's account of an anti-Castro Cuban trying to frame Oswald for the assassination weeks before the event was credible, that Ruby had significant Mafia ties, that Ruby lied about how he entered the police basement to shoot Oswald, that Ruby lied about why he shot Oswald, etc., etc.

Lance Payette:
I really am going on hiatus after this post. I just do not have this sort of time for the JFKA follies, much as I enjoy reading my own thoughts.  :D

All I'm doing here is thinking out loud - as one who has organized and presented cases, just thinking how I would assemble a plausible conspiracy scenario. If you live and breathe Harvey and Lee or think MTG is the epitome of rationality - please, go for it.

A plausible conspiracy can be described in which nothing takes place in Dealey Plaza other than what the LN narrative posits. It's hard for me to believe that sophisticated conspirators would entrust the entire operation to Oswald and his $20 M-C, or that the operation would have unfolded as it did, but it's possible.

Regarding the SBT and whatnot: I am certainly not going to enter THAT debate. For starters, I'm not qualified. I'm just thinking out loud - the stuff that has always nagged at me.

It has always seemed to me that the supposed "early shot" and the SBT were and are motivated in part to avoid a conspiracy, as opposed to being entirely evidence-based. I think an excellent case can be and has been made that Oswald fired only two shots. As Jack Nessan has pointed out, the LN narrative can easily accommodate this; there simply was no early shot - the SBT and the head shot were it. But then we have the witnesses who insist there were two shots that were almost simultaneous. Were these two shots the ones that the SBT has merged into one, definitely meaning two gunmen? Were they the head shot and a shot almost simultaneous with it, as I think Josiah Thompson believes - definitely meaning two gunmen? It does seem to me that the SBT has some implausibilities as I've described. I don't know how it all hashes out and don't feel obligated to try. I simply said that I would focus on this rather than other supposed (and more unlikely) "conspiracy" aspects of Dealey Plaza if I were assembling a conspiracy theory.

FWIW, John Orr's Mafia theory posits a shot by Oswald at Z204 that went through JFK's back and neck and exited the car. He posits a second shot by Oswald at Z236 that strikes JBC. He posits the head shot at Z312 by a different gunman, with a fragment causing JBC's wrist wound. He posits a third shot by Oswald at Z326 that strikes the pavement left of the car, but he admits this is tentative. Is this solid reasoning? I don't know. But it is what I'm talking about when I say a "plausible" conspiracy theory. You are free to scream "It's not plausible AT ALL!" Maybe it's not, but it's certainly an example of a tight, minimalist theory that is more plausible and well-thought-out than most of the CT stuff.

https://www.mountainrivercabins.com/JohnOrrReport.pdf

Benjamin Cole:
LP--

Fair enough, though I think LHO's confederates were either lower-level G-2'ers, likely acting on their own initiative...or

...hanger-on Alpha-66'ers, keeping in mind Alpha-66 had been penetrated by G-2, and there were double agents in Alpha-66. They had a house in Dallas, adding to the mix. There is a lone eyewitness account of LHO at the Alpha 66 house, on Harlandale in Dallas.

In fact, Rolando Cubela, indisputably given a poison pen by the CIA on 11.22.63, with which he was to assassinate Castro, is thought by many to have been a double agent. This is murky stuff.

Such a small, informal, ad hoc JFKA plot, involving three people (including LHO) with no written record, would be hard to detect. And the WC was, in general, prosecuting the LNT-SBT narrative.

Arlen Specter's lawyerly reasoning on the SBT is a work of art. Basically he said, "If we assume one bullet missed the limo, then the SBT is the only remaining explanation." He reasoned from a premise.

The CIA, in general, would be averse to a JFKA investigation, if suspected anti-Castro assets, or double-agents were in the brew.

It appears George Joaniddes wanted to put the kibosh on the HSCA's look-see into MC. Blakey thought so, after the fact.

OTOH, I do not see much of connection between LHO and the Mafia.

But who knows?

Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.

John Corbett:

--- Quote from: Steve M. Galbraith on June 05, 2026, 12:44:27 AM ---FYI, there were five executions done in Texas in 1964. All were black men and two did not involve murder.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_in_Texas,_1960%E2%80%931964#cite_note-5



--- End quote ---

Your chart doesn't show the date of the crime so it doesn't give us a clue as to the length of the appeals process. I have little doubt Oswald would have been convicted of a double homicide and sentenced to death but I have serious doubt his sentence would have been carried out before SCOTUS vacated all existing death penalty statutes in 1972. There is a real possibility an 86 year old Oswald would still be sneering at us from his jail cell in Texas.

Lance Payette:
This old recreation of the Discovery Channel's "Beyond the Magic Bullet," which ended up with the bullet going Where It's Not Supposed to Go (i.e., JFK's sternum), recently received some discussion at the Ed Forum.

I also noticed that Larry Schnapf, who works closely with John Orr, says Orr's latest work shows the Mafia bullet being fired from the County Records building. You may recall that Orr sponsored the Knott Lab study of the bullet trajectories but then rejected the results (not because they confirmed the SBT, because they didn't).

Mafia! Mafia! Mafia!  :D :D :D

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjcLtPsOML8

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