JFK's raised left arm identified at Bethesda

[Darragh McConville]

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post - apologies if this topic has been broached before, I was unable to find it using the search feature.

I have followed and tracked the statements recorded by David Lifton and Doug Horne for many years.  I feel I have stitched together the - admittedly complex and at times hard to believe - timeline of events concerning the casket(s) and body from Parkland to Bethesda.

The one piece of the puzzle which I cannot fit is based on an "off the record" conversation between David Lifton and Richard Lipsey where no recording equipment was permitted or used.

Lipsey stated - and Lifton directly quoted him - that JFK's left arm was raised like a "Heil Hitler salute" when he saw the body at Bethesda.  Furthermore, Lipsey said that "Humes had to jump on the body and lower it with his knee."

Lifton has discussed this in a few online videos including this series -

Lifton proceeded to hypothesise why the left arm - and only the left arm - was raised.  He implied that this was due to storage conditions for the body aboard the luggage compartment of Air Force 1.

Irrespective of how it was raised, if we take Lipsey at his word, we assume the arm was as raised as it was, I have a major problem.

What I know to be true is that the body was delivered inside a "zipped body bag" inside a "shipping casket" by helicopter, then black cadillac hearse to the back door of the Bethesday morgue at rougly 6:35pm.

Looking at both the zipped body bag (as cofirmed by Paul O'Connor at Bethesday) and the grey shipping casket (as confirmed by Jim Jenkins at Bethesda) I can't physically see how JFK's arm could have been raised at all.  There just isn't the room inside the body bag NOR the casket.

I would warmly welcome this great community to challenge me on this and I am open to being convinced that this is simply a false statement from Lipsey - he is the only person as far as I know that stated this. Equally, I'm open to being told that the body bags have plenty of room for a raised arm - but logistically, I'm sceptical.

I'm looking forward to your comments.

Thank you.

[John Corbett]

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post - apologies if this topic has been broached before, I was unable to find it using the search feature.

I have followed and tracked the statements recorded by David Lifton and Doug Horne for many years.

Why would you do that? Their theory of postmortem surgery is among the silliest ever made about the JFKA.

 

I feel I have stitched together the - admittedly complex and at times hard to believe

That's an understatement.

- timeline of events concerning the casket(s) and body from Parkland to Bethesda.

The one piece of the puzzle which I cannot fit is based on an "off the record" conversation between David Lifton and Richard Lipsey where no recording equipment was permitted or used.

Lipsey stated - and Lifton directly quoted him - that JFK's left arm was raised like a "Heil Hitler salute" when he saw the body at Bethesda.  Furthermore, Lipsey said that "Humes had to jump on the body and lower it with his knee."

And here I though Lifton was crazy. What was I thinking?

Lifton has discussed this in a few online videos including this series -

Lifton proceeded to hypothesise why the left arm - and only the left arm - was raised.  He implied that this was due to storage conditions for the body aboard the luggage compartment of Air Force 1.

About as silly as the rest of his theory. No more. No less.

Irrespective of how it was raised, if we take Lipsey at his word,

Why would anyone do that?

we assume the arm was as raised as it was, I have a major problem.

What I know to be true is that the body was delivered inside a "zipped body bag" inside a "shipping casket" by helicopter, then black cadillac hearse to the back door of the Bethesday morgue at rougly 6:35pm.

What else do you know that isn't true?

Looking at both the zipped body bag (as cofirmed by Paul O'Connor at Bethesday)

I'm not at all surprised you think Paul O'Connor is a credible witness.

and the grey shipping casket (as confirmed by Jim Jenkins at Bethesda) I can't physically see how JFK's arm could have been raised at all.  There just isn't the room inside the body bag NOR the casket.

You're starting to sound rational now.

I would warmly welcome this great community to challenge me on this

I think I already have.

and I am open to being convinced that this is simply a false statement from Lipsey - he is the only person as far as I know that stated this. Equally, I'm open to being told that the body bags have plenty of room for a raised arm - but logistically, I'm sceptical.

I'm looking forward to your comments.

Thank you.

Not only is Lipsey off his rocker, so are Lifton and Horne. The whole body snatcher theory of postmortem surgery is as silly as it gets. It's been about 10 years since I've seen a proponent of this goofball scenario. It is absolutely preposterous to think that postmortem surgery could have been performed on the body and that the pathologists wouldn't have instantly recoginzed it. Even a first year medical student wouldn't be fooled by something like that.

[Tommy Shanks]

The whole body snatcher theory of postmortem surgery is as silly as it gets. It's been about 10 years since I've seen a proponent of this goofball scenario. It is absolutely preposterous to think that postmortem surgery could have been performed on the body and that the pathologists wouldn't have instantly recoginzed it. Even a first year medical student wouldn't be fooled by something like that.

You're speaking the truth, John. I feel like Lifton took advantage of some of the Bethesda witnesses and through the power of suggestion was able to convince them that they saw or heard things that actually never happened.

[Royell Storing]

Why would you do that? Their theory of postmortem surgery is among the silliest ever made about the JFKA.That's an understatement.And here I though Lifton was crazy. What was I thinking?About as silly as the rest of his theory. No more. No less.Why would anyone do that?What else do you know that isn't true?I'm not at all surprised you think Paul O'Connor is a credible witness.You're starting to sound rational now.I think I already have.Not only is Lipsey off his rocker, so are Lifton and Horne. The whole body snatcher theory of postmortem surgery is as silly as it gets. It's been about 10 years since I've seen a proponent of this goofball scenario. It is absolutely preposterous to think that postmortem surgery could have been performed on the body and that the pathologists wouldn't have instantly recoginzed it. Even a first year medical student wouldn't be fooled by something like that.

   Did you forget about the, "surgery to the head area", declaration that Lifton discovered buried inside the 26 Volumes? Your "pathologist" claim above is incorrect based on this being in the 26 volumes.

[Royell Storing]

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post - apologies if this topic has been broached before, I was unable to find it using the search feature.

I have followed and tracked the statements recorded by David Lifton and Doug Horne for many years.  I feel I have stitched together the - admittedly complex and at times hard to believe - timeline of events concerning the casket(s) and body from Parkland to Bethesda.

The one piece of the puzzle which I cannot fit is based on an "off the record" conversation between David Lifton and Richard Lipsey where no recording equipment was permitted or used.

Lipsey stated - and Lifton directly quoted him - that JFK's left arm was raised like a "Heil Hitler salute" when he saw the body at Bethesda.  Furthermore, Lipsey said that "Humes had to jump on the body and lower it with his knee."

Lifton has discussed this in a few online videos including this series -

Lifton proceeded to hypothesise why the left arm - and only the left arm - was raised.  He implied that this was due to storage conditions for the body aboard the luggage compartment of Air Force 1.

Irrespective of how it was raised, if we take Lipsey at his word, we assume the arm was as raised as it was, I have a major problem.

What I know to be true is that the body was delivered inside a "zipped body bag" inside a "shipping casket" by helicopter, then black cadillac hearse to the back door of the Bethesday morgue at rougly 6:35pm.

Looking at both the zipped body bag (as cofirmed by Paul O'Connor at Bethesday) and the grey shipping casket (as confirmed by Jim Jenkins at Bethesda) I can't physically see how JFK's arm could have been raised at all.  There just isn't the room inside the body bag NOR the casket.

I would warmly welcome this great community to challenge me on this and I am open to being convinced that this is simply a false statement from Lipsey - he is the only person as far as I know that stated this. Equally, I'm open to being told that the body bags have plenty of room for a raised arm - but logistically, I'm sceptical.

I'm looking forward to your comments.

Thank you.

  Welcome Darragh. Good to have you aboard.

[John Corbett]

   Did you forget about the, "surgery to the head area", declaration that Lifton discovered buried inside the 26 Volumes? Your "pathologist" claim above is incorrect based on this being in the 26 volumes.

The 26 volumes are a log of all the evidence and data collected before any of it was vetted for probative value or relevance. It was left to the commissioners and the staff lawyers to sort through all that raw data and make sense of it. They did a masterful job of that.

[Zeon Mason]

The 26 volumes are a log of all the evidence and data collected before any of it was vetted for probative value or relevance. It was left to the commissioners and the staff lawyers to sort through all that raw data and make sense of it. They did a masterful job of that.

They did a masterful job of confusing us as to which evidence is valid and which evidence is not.