JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
What about that dent?
Jack Nessan:
--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on June 04, 2026, 03:13:45 PM ---Just SMH. So now you're changing your story. Just think about this ludicrous scenario, especially in light of the hard ballistics evidence I've presented about CE 543. You have no idea if Oswald "mostly" dry-fired the alleged murder weapon. Even WC staffer Wesley Liebeler doubted that unsubstantiated tale. Here's what Liebeler said on the matter in internal memos (all the memos are reprinted in 11 HSCA):
1. I do not believe there is any real authority for the proposition that Oswald sighted through the telescopic sight on the porch in New Orleans. Marina Oswald first said she did not know what he did with the rifle out on the porch, and then was led into a statement which might be thought to support the instant proposition. It is not very convincing. . . .
I should add that when first questioned, Marina said she'd never seen the rifle with a scope on it. She knew nothing about weapons anyway. If she didn't know what Oswald did with the rifle, this is just further proof that the dry-fire story is pure speculation.
Again:
-- CE 543 has three sets of marks on the base that are not found on the two other shells and that were not made on any of the numerous shells that were ejected from the alleged murder weapon during firing tests.
-- CE 543 does not have the characteristic chambering impression along the side exhibited by the other cartridges we know to have been seated in the chamber of the alleged murder weapon, i.e.,, CE 544 and CE 545, and also CE 141 (the live round found in the chamber of the rifle. The impression on CE 141 is in the same location but is not as pronounced as on CEs 544 and 545, almost certainly due to the fact that it was not fired.
-- CE 543 could not have been marked by the alleged murder weapon’s magazine follower during the assassination because there was a live round left in the rifle’s chamber and only the last shell in the clip is marked by the magazine follower. This fact alone discredits the HSCA firearms experts' claims about the dented shell, as research scientist Dr. Don Thomas has explained:
Furthermore, according to the FBI experts, the casing had been marked by the magazine follower. This fact is especially relevant because only the last cartridge in the clip is marked by the magazine follower, and inasmuch as the Oswald rifle still had one live round in the chamber, CE 543 could not have been marked by the magazine follower as an operation of the rifle during the assassination. The failure of the HSCA Firearms Panel to disclose or discuss the discrepancy between their conclusion and the FBI findings forces the conclusion that the Firearms Panel analysis of this problem was less than forthright and certainly less than thorough. (Hear No Evil: Politics, Science, and the Forensic Evidence in the Kennedy Assassination, New York: Skyhorse Publishing, 2010, p. 141)
I discuss the dented shell at length in my book A Comforting Lie: They Myth That a Lone Gunman Killed President Kennedy. A condensed version of that discussion is available on my website:
The Dented Bullet Shell: Hard Evidence of Conspiracy in the JFK Assassination
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ihue8a0GmN_Ptl38bPjpu1F99nqU0Z6f/view
--- End quote ---
Do you honestly not understand the evidence you have presented here.
-- CE 543 has three sets of marks on the base that are not found on the two other shells and that were not made on any of the numerous shells that were ejected from the alleged murder weapon during firing tests.
The marks are the result of the shell being pressed against the extractor when the trigger is pulled during the process of dry firing. You know Joseph Nicols' testimony to the WC. He was a real life expert, not this pretend nonsense presented here.
-- CE 543 does not have the characteristic chambering impression along the side exhibited by the other cartridges we know to have been seated in the chamber of the alleged murder weapon, i.e.,, CE 544 and CE 545, and also CE 141 (the live round found in the chamber of the rifle. The impression on CE 141 is in the same location but is not as pronounced as on CEs 544 and 545, almost certainly due to the fact that it was not fired.
That is the point. Josiah Thompson understood the ramifications of it very well. Wrote about it in his book. It seems the importance of it has gone right over your head.
You presented CE 141 as evidence but don’t understand the mechanics of how the chamber mark was impressed into the shell casing? You know heat from the other cartridges having been fired before its introduction. Maybe if you had ever been around a firearm, you would know that.
-- CE 543 could not have been marked by the alleged murder weapon’s magazine follower during the assassination because there was a live round left in the rifle’s chamber and only the last shell in the clip is marked by the magazine follower. This fact alone discredits the HSCA firearms experts' claims about the dented shell, as research scientist Dr. Don Thomas has explained:
Your belief is that rifles cannot be loaded and unloaded. They have to be fired to empty the magazine. Again, maybe if you had ever been around a firearm, you would know that is wrong.
Seriously, you are posting about your supposed military training and you don't understand any of the info you presented here?
Jarrett Smith:
--- Quote from: Jack Nessan on June 04, 2026, 03:07:26 PM ---Any breakthrough on proving your early missed shot fantasy yet? A rifle shot described by the HSCA Sound Analysis as being too loud to miss, is missed by all the eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza and you are totally OK with that belief. Unbelievable.
--- End quote ---
What fantasy? The first shot was fired around Z-157, the second Z-223
The acoustics is incorrect. IF there were 2 head shots right together his head was pushed forward first then back, not the opposite.
Many witnesses heard 3 shots the first when JFK slumped, and the third at Z-313. No way Oswald could fire 3 shots in 5 seconds.
Jack Nessan:
--- Quote from: Jarrett Smith on June 04, 2026, 04:40:45 PM ---What fantasy? The first shot was fired around Z-157, the second Z-223
The acoustics is incorrect. IF there were 2 head shots right together his head was pushed forward first then back, not the opposite.
Many witnesses heard 3 shots the first when JFK slumped, and the third at Z-313. No way Oswald could fire 3 shots in 5 seconds.
--- End quote ---
Which one is it. The first shot at Z157 or the first shot when JFK slumped.
What witness to a first shot before JFK slumped. That is the point.
Michael T. Griffith:
--- Quote from: Jack Nessan on June 04, 2026, 04:22:16 PM ---Do you honestly not understand the evidence you have presented here.
--- End quote ---
I do, but you clearly don't. You always pretend to know more than anyone else but then make one blundering statement after another.
--- Quote from: Jack Nessan on June 04, 2026, 04:22:16 PM ----- CE 543 has three sets of marks on the base that are not found on the two other shells and that were not made on any of the numerous shells that were ejected from the alleged murder weapon during firing tests.
The marks are the result of the shell being pressed against the extractor when the trigger is pulled during the process of dry firing. You know Joseph Nicols' testimony to the WC. He was a real life expert, not this pretend nonsense presented here.
--- End quote ---
LOL! One, CE 543 was supposedly fired during the assassination, but obviously it was not, even according to your amateurish take on Nicols' testimony. Two, this does not explain why there are no chambering impressions on CE 543.
--- Quote from: Jack Nessan on June 04, 2026, 04:22:16 PM ----- CE 543 does not have the characteristic chambering impression along the side exhibited by the other cartridges we know to have been seated in the chamber of the alleged murder weapon, i.e.,, CE 544 and CE 545, and also CE 141 (the live round found in the chamber of the rifle. The impression on CE 141 is in the same location but is not as pronounced as on CEs 544 and 545, almost certainly due to the fact that it was not fired.
That is the point. Josiah Thompson understood the ramifications of it very well. Wrote about it in his book. It seems the importance of it has gone right over your head.
--- End quote ---
This is just silly, not to mention dishonest. Yes, that is indeed the point, which I made clear. I tend to doubt that you've even read Thompson's analysis of CE 543. If you did, you didn't understand it.
--- Quote from: Jack Nessan on June 04, 2026, 04:22:16 PM ---You presented CE 141 as evidence but don’t understand the mechanics of how the chamber mark was impressed into the shell casing? You know heat from the other cartridges having been fired before its introduction. Maybe if you had ever been around a firearm, you would know that.
--- End quote ---
This is another one of your silly and dishonest strawman attacks. Why don't you quote from Thompson's analysis, hey? I wonder if you just don't know that Thompson argues that at least four shots were fired.
--- Quote from: Jack Nessan on June 04, 2026, 04:22:16 PM ----- CE 543 could not have been marked by the alleged murder weapon’s magazine follower during the assassination because there was a live round left in the rifle’s chamber and only the last shell in the clip is marked by the magazine follower. This fact alone discredits the HSCA firearms experts' claims about the dented shell, as research scientist Dr. Don Thomas has explained:
Your belief is that rifles cannot be loaded and unloaded. They have to be fired to empty the magazine. Again, maybe if you had ever been around a firearm, you would know that is wrong.
--- End quote ---
LOL! Are you in junior high or something? The level of silliness and dishonesty in your strawman arguments is pitiful. I notice you snipped Dr. Thomas's comments. Gee, I wonder why.
--- Quote from: Jack Nessan on June 04, 2026, 04:22:16 PM ---Seriously, you are posting about your supposed military training and you don't understand any of the info you presented here?
--- End quote ---
I know far more than you do about firearms. You're a silly troll who pretends to understand issues that you clearly don't understand. Your tactic is to make ad hominem attacks and strawman arguments because you can't deal credibly with the evidence.
Why don't you address the arguments about CE 543 made by recognized firearms experts that I present in my article? I'm guessing you still haven't bothered to read my article on CE 543.
People should know that you're a peddler of the fringe two-shots-only lone-gunman scenario, a theory that even 98% of your fellow lone-gunman theorists reject as ridiculous, including Gerald Posner, Vincent Bugliosi, and Jim Moore.
Lance Payette:
--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on June 04, 2026, 03:13:45 PM ---Just SMH. So now you're changing your story. Just think about this ludicrous scenario, especially in light of the hard ballistics evidence I've presented about CE 543. You have no idea if Oswald "mostly" dry-fired the alleged murder weapon. Even WC staffer Wesley Liebeler doubted that unsubstantiated tale. Here's what Liebeler said on the matter in internal memos (all the memos are reprinted in 11 HSCA):
1. I do not believe there is any real authority for the proposition that Oswald sighted through the telescopic sight on the porch in New Orleans. Marina Oswald first said she did not know what he did with the rifle out on the porch, and then was led into a statement which might be thought to support the instant proposition. It is not very convincing. . . .
--- End quote ---
What on earth are you talking about? I didn't "change my story" - I've said the same thing on here 15 times. I'm not sure what Liebeler's doubt about sighting through the scope has to do with anything. Everyone who owns a rifle, including me, does more dry-firing than live firing, and an empty shell in the chamber prevents damage to the firing pin. Live firing with a large-caliber rifle is damn expensive, and Oswald was not only frugal but had limited opportunities for live practice. I simply believe he likely kept a dry-firing shell in the chamber and it was there when he assembled the rifle in the TSBD. A dented shell that cannot be reloaded is typically used for dry-firing - I myself did it.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version