Zapruder film "fakery" and the ED Forum Kooks!

[John Mytton]

I still recall your spurious argument that Nix and Zapruder filmed from such drastically different angles that the readily apparent contradiction between what they show about Agent Hill and Jackie Kennedy's relative positions at the same moment in time is just an optical illusion.

Griffith in his following (mis)info graphic uses this sole example of his proof of fakery in both Nix and/or Zapruder, yeah I know, it's kind of pathetic.



But Jerry Organ who is/was a master of 3D modelling, with a tiny bit of help and direction from me, proved it's just the change in perspective from either side of Dealey Plaza.





BTW, Marie Muchmore also captured the headshot and again, her footage shows the EXACT same event, no limo stop and no biological matter expulsion from the back of JFK's head. Griffith, it's time you stop your amateur anomaly hunting and just accept that the Zapruder film is what it is.

JohnM

[Lance Payette]

I guess it's just "the game," and without "players" there would be no "game," but I'm mystified as to why people keep feeling the need to engage with and try to refute self-evident nonsense? It just give the nonsense a veneer of credibility, as though it needed to be refuted and there's some fear that rational people might be persuaded. The one definitive response to someone like MTG is, "What you say MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL." Put it into a narrative that ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE and we'll talk. You can't, and you don't try, because IT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL. Folks who engage with MTG on his goofy "facts" are playing on his turf, just egging on his nonsense and ratcheting him up to the next level of nonsense. People who believe the things MTG asserts have cognitive faculties that are not tracking in the channels of normality. It's that simple. Engaging with MTG is like going to the local institution and trying to convince with rational argument the guy who insists he's Napoleon that he isn't really Napoleon. If you lined up the Z-film alteration fans - MTG, David Josephs, Keven Hofeling, et al. - you'd have a cast of characters who are intelligent, educated, articulate ... and completely outside the channels of rational thought, at least in this area of their lives. This was one great lesson of my three years of representing a mental health agency in the commitment of folks with serious mental illnesses who were deemed a danger to themselves or others. Few were obviously "crazy." Some held responsible positions. But they were way outside the channels of normality. At least when it comes to the JFKA, the narrative that Z-film alteration fans promote is way outside the channels of normality. If you can't see this, perhaps you have a problem. Accept my challenge and try to articulate a JFKA narrative from A to Z whereby the need to alter the Z-film and the alteration itself ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE. Maybe work Napoleon into it if you think it will help.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Zapruder's granddaughter, Alexandria, explained the entire problem here, e.g., if you think the film is authentic you're a "Warren Commission apologist", Itek was controlled by the CIA, et cetera:

[Lance Payette]

Steve's post somewhat relates to another "epistemological" point I was going to make. When you confront MTG and others like him with the stark reality that what they say MAKES NO SENSE, they do not - EVER - attempt to explain how it does make sense, even in their quirky view of the JFKA. They adopt one or both of two tactics:

1. You really know nothing about the JFKA. You may have been studying it for 50 years and have read essentially everything ever written, but you lack their deep knowledge. You are an amateur who has no business even participating in discussions about the JFKA, let alone trying to engage at the level of deep and arcane knowledge at which these folks operate. If only poor unworthy you knew what they know, you'd see what they see.

2. You're just a crank who thinks all CTers are crazy. Since many CTers are obviously not crazy, and many CT arguments are quite rational, this allows folks like MTG to adopt the high ground (I'm just like Larry Hancock!) and imply that it is in fact you who are crazy. No, sorry, there is a lunatic fringe of the CT community that is distinct and recognizable because what they say MAKES NO SENSE and THEY DON'T EVEN CARE that it makes no sense.

Pay attention, and you will see how many responses from MTG and his ilk fall into one or both of these categories.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

And one more on film fakery/alteration (from Alexandria Zapruder again):

[Lance Payette]

The wife is gone, the cats are fed, and I'm on a roll. 

When I say that what MTG says MAKES NO SENSE, I mean that there is no internal logic. The conspirators did A ... and then they did B ... and then they did C ... but A, B and C simply cannot be rationally reconciled.

Very early on in my participation at the Ed Forum, one of my epiphanies was that virtually every conspiracy theory requires the conspirators to have been diabolical geniuses at steps 1-3-5-7-9 and complete bumbling fools at steps 2-4-6-8-10. It just MAKES NO SENSE. They engaged in incredible, almost science-fiction-like cover-up activities ... but also left 3,829 clues for decades of conspiracy enthusiasts to drool over. It just MAKES NO SENSE.

Even if it's not entirely convincing, you at least have to be able to articulate a conspiracy theory that holds together rationally from A to Z.