Zapruder film "fakery" and the ED Forum Kooks!

[Mike Orr]

Orville Nix's film has never been seen again since the FBI took it into their custody ! What did Orville's film show that would have been different than what the Zapruder film shows ?

[Tommy Shanks]

Orville Nix's film has never been seen again since the FBI took it into their custody ! What did Orville's film show that would have been different than what the Zapruder film shows ?

Absolutely nothing. It matches the Z film precisely.

[Kevin Balch]

The secret service follow up car was following 5 feet behind the limo and both were initially traveling at about 15 feet per second. The BEST driver reaction time for recognizing the need to brake, removing the foot from the accelerator and to begin actual braking is 0.7 seconds. In that time, the secret service follow up car would have already traveled 10 feet. It would have to brake extremely abruptly to have maintained any distance from the limo which would have been quite noticeable to all the passengers including Kennedy loyalists O’Donnell and Powers. If Clint Hill wasn’t pinned between the two cars, he certainly would have had to climb between them to get on the limo.

That 5 foot separation was required when the vehicles were traveling at or below 15 mph just so agents could reach the limo if needed. You can see this clearly in the footage on Houston Street. There had to be some kind of advanced communication if a stop was intended. There is no evidence of that happening. Why those with advanced degrees in physics such as Mantik, Costella and Lifton fail to see this causes me to question their physics.

[Royell Storing]

Absolutely nothing. It matches the Z film precisely.

   The "issue" with the Missing Original NIX Film is that it shows a Man wearing a WHITE SHIRT running up-the-steps. Non of the 3 guys standing at the bottom of The Steps was wearing a White Shirt. A man wearing a White Shirt near The Steps was corroborated in Lee Bower's WC Q/A.

[Kevin Balch]

I found the 0-30 mph time for a 1961 4-door Lincoln Continental sedan with a 300 hp engine. Estimating the weight of the much heavier modified vehicle delivered along with four adult male and two adult female passengers would have increased the weight by 75%. Since acceleration is inversely proportional to mass for a constant applied force (the engine was not modified), that 0-30 mph increases to 7 seconds. When I compared this acceleration to the speeds Mark Tyler inferred from the Z-film and other photographic evidence in his Motorcade63 animation for the period when Greer floored it (roughly Z-325 to Z-395), there was very good agreement between the two.

It also suggests that if Clint Hill was able to put a foot on the limo step at Z-368 when it was traveling at 16 mph (per Motorcade63) it would have had to have been accelerating for at least 3.7 seconds from a dead stop. In the mean time, Clint Hill could have WALKED to the limo.

This did not register with Davidson or Josephs.

[Michael T. Griffith]

I came across Chris Davidson and Keven Hofeling's allegations at the Ed Forum that the Zapruder film that we know, isn't the original. Chris Davidson uses "maths" to allege that the Limo stopped, while Hofeling has accumulated a vast number of buzzwords which he uses to sound somewhat knowledgeable but as they say in the classics, garbage in garbage out.

1. Refuting a Limo stop.

I don't think Zapruder critics realize that the changes they suggest were impossible;
For example, say you remove frames then how do you have the people outside moving towards the Limo not be affected by the frame removal and that goes for the Limo passengers, there is no sudden jumps and everyone has constant motion. And then you have the problem of the Limo, it doesn't stop and start on a dime but has to come to a stop and then has to gain speed to go again, so at what two points in the "original" Zapruder film do you snip the film to show the slowing Limo and how do you account for the multiple people elements and the missing yards to account for the slow down, stop and reacceleration?
This may be difficult to grasp but to have an end product that equals the "Current" Zapruder film we need to edit out a stop, so we match the Limo's approach speed of say 8mph and edit that with a departure speed of 8mph but what happens to the footage in between? The Limo has travelled some distance, the people outside didn't become statues and likewise the occupants of the Limo have continued to move.

And considering that Nix captured from the opposite end of Dealey Plaza, the entire sequence where the Limo was supposed to have stopped, makes the limo stop theory dead in the water.

2. Addressing Hofeling's needlessly verbose allegations or in other words, if you can't impress with science and legitimate evidence, then baffle them with BS!

According to Jonathan Cohen, in Hofeling's latest post at the ED Forum, Hofeling used over 10,000 words to attack his critics and repeat much of the garbage which he has posted multiple times before. I have previously created a thread addressing Hofeling's belief that JFK's back of head "patch" at Z317 was painted on to cover a back of head hole but this is only the start of a much larger problem, namely how do you cover up the cloud of expelled matter? 

My original thread addressing Hofeling's first wave of Zapruder fakery.
Ever wonder why the hardcore CT's try to create doubt about the Zapruder
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,3920.msg154876.html#msg154876

Hofeling has recently added some new pieces of "evidence", some of which are the very definition of intellectual dishonesty.

2a. Hofeling lists some witnesses who allegedly corroborate Brugioni's "Multi-Frame, Rearward-Flying Biological Debris", for those who don't know who Brugioni is, he watched the Zapruder film on the day after the assassination. And for a start, Brugioni was the worst witness because after seeing the Zapruder film 50+ years later said of the original film, "it(biological matter) was straight up [gesturing high above his own head]... in the sky..." which is precisely what we see in the current Zapruder film and is totally at odds with rearward-flying anything! Brugioni also says that this biological matter was visible for more than 1 frame but the Zapruder film shows this debris in the air for more than 1 frame, so who knows what he was shown and at what resolution? and let's not forget that Brugioni back in 1963 saw either the much clearer original or at the very least a first generation print?
To support the rearward-flying matter, Hofeling lists along with Brugioni, Zapruder himself and Sitzman who was Zapruder's secretary who stood behind Zapruder and kept him steady.

But unfortunately for Hofeling, Sitzman and Zapruder's evidence equally doesn't support rearward-flying debris, in fact it strengthens the exact opposite??



These Dealey Plaza eyewitnesses just an hour or two later were interviewed and all said what they saw and guess what, they all saw what the Zapruder film shows! How about that!

2b. In Hofeling's latest presentation, Hofeling boasts that him and his team of modern researchers are working off the fabled 6K Zapruder film print which came from a second generation NARA copy and then was logarithmically improved! Let's see where that takes us?

This GIF demonstrates a "logarithmically" adjusted Hofeling frame over an original Zapruder frame and the obvious strong red bias just increases and crushes the blacks and all for what? For the misguided hope of artificially enhancing JFK's back of head shadow and this deception is the exact the opposite of what a logarithmically manipulated image is designed to show.

Hofeling also links to a video which shows his team analysing their high res 6K logarithmically enhanced Zapruder frames and even though this video capture lose a little resolution, the much lauded microscopically visible film grain is a joke and the clearly visible macro blocking is an embarrassment. It's no wonder that previous to this that they only showed zoomed out images which hid their poor copies and awful artefacts.

A near original Zapruder Film frame demonstrates the Back of head shadow showing subtle shade variation, a feathered edge and clear film grain.

On this supposed 6K frame grab, the microscopic visible film grain is severely lacking, the macro blocking is painfully obvious and the hard edged, solid coloured back of head shadow is not seen on the original.

2c. Hofeling has been very busy making all sorts of infographics, but what use are they if they are intellectually dishonest? In the following table, his team compares JFK's hair to Connally's grey hair in the same frame, Z317 but we have different ambient lighting, different angle of incidence and different reflective properties then declares same same! Give me a break! How about comparing Kellerman and Kennedy? Nah, that would give the game away.

And upon closer examination the "drop-off" is only visible in their horrible attempt to "logarithmically" enhance/alter the Zapruder original.

My second generation Zapruder vs Hofeling's dogs breakfast!

2d. Hofeling also cites two Hollywood experts who don't seem to have the relevant credentials for a detailed analysis of the back of head "patch" but even if they did, they were no doubt showed the above fraudulent "logarithmically" enhanced/altered Zapruder frames which makes their opinions worthless.

2e. Hofeling also makes the same claim as Davidson, that because some eyewitnesses saw the Limo stop or slow down then that must mean the Zapruder film was faked but how reliable are these eyewitnesses who saw these two contradictory events, it's physically impossible for a Limo to stop and slow down at the same time but the Zapruder film does in fact show the Limo to slow down, so some of the witnesses were correct and some were wrong, it's as simple as that!

In conclusion, and I've said this before, whatever could be done with celluloid film in 1963 can be done infinitely easier using computers and photoshop but I still haven't seen anybody replicate anything that was alleged to have occurred with the Zapruder film? Why can't someone film a car stop and then edit the film to show that the car didn't stop? I can tell you why, because even with advanced SFX, the job would be mammoth, it would require the car element to be digitally removed, then because the car slows, stops and starts this car element would be excised and then we require three dimensional perspective correction to be reinserted over the constantly updating background. And BTW just editing out some frames would look absurd, so don't even go there.

And finally, David Healey who worked in the film/TV industry provided this proof of concept image where he used Photoshop an image manipulation tool which was unheard of for at least a couple of decades after 1963(the technology at the time was literally a sharp knife and sticky tape) and it just looks fake AF and it's only a single frame, imagine the mess that would be created by a string of these in photoreal film!

JohnM

Anyone who reads the serious, scholarly research on evidence of alteration in the Zapruder film will see that your post is your usual mix of strawman arguments, exaggerations, omissions, pseudo-science, and errors.

One would never know to read your arguments that dozens of film experts have concluded the Zapruder film has been altered. One would never know that Stanford physicist Dr. Art Snyder refuted your argument that there are no indications among the movements of the passengers that the limo stop was removed from the film. One would never know about the extensive research of Australian physicist and film expert John Costello on evidence of alteration in the film. Etc., etc., etc.

I still recall your spurious argument that Nix and Zapruder filmed from such drastically different angles that the readily apparent contradiction between what they show about Agent Hill and Jackie Kennedy's relative positions at the same moment in time is just an optical illusion.

For those who want an introduction to the evidence of alteration, I offer this article for your consideration:

Evidence of Alteration in the Zapruder Film
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YOK_7uLe49zgXADGQxkIH1dmaEcpyaWd/view

[Lance Payette]

I realize common sense is no fun at all, but what is the logic here?

We have conspirators who are sophisticated enough to immediately leap into action and alter the Z film – so pretty sophisticated, yes?

How do these sophisticated folks have a conspiracy so clumsy that they need to alter the Z film? If the plan is to sell Oswald as a lone gunman in TSBD6, why do any shots come from anywhere other than a location and trajectory plausibly attributable to TSBD6?

How did they know the shot(s) from the front would even be amenable to alteration? What if the frontal gunman had hit JFK squarely in the nose – what then?

How did they know there wouldn’t be three, six or ten other people filming in Dealey Plaza? How did they know on the evening of 11-22 there weren’t? How did they know their alterations wouldn’t be immediately exposed by a different film that surfaced a week later?

Why wasn't the film immediately confiscated from Zapruder? Instead of an elaborate plot to alter the Z film, why not just say it was destroyed during processing or whatever? Sorry, it’s gone. Why go through this elaborate hoax?

Once again, it seems to me, CTers bog down in minutiae – all the supposed “evidence” of alteration – and simply ignore that …

THIS MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL

Does it? If someone thinks it does, take me through how it worked. Take me plausibly through - just plausibly, that's all I ask - why there was a shot from the front, what the contingency plan was “just in case someone captures it on film,” and all the rest. I’ll bet you can’t!