Did Dale K. Myers graduate from the Gary Aguilar School of Charm?

[Benjamin Cole]

This is the WC visualization of the JFK head shot. Did the slug, or a fragment thereof, then strike the curb near the feet of Tague?

Pardon the pun, seems like a long shot. Tague was far to JFK's left, and at a slightly lower elevation. There are zero exit holes on the left side of JFK's skull.



Could the WC have been stretching evidence, and arguments, to buttress the LN conclusion?

President LBJ warned WC's Warren not to come to any conclusions that might start a nuke war on Russia....

[John Corbett]

ME: Please summarize our current conversation.

GROK: We began with the observation that JFK, Jackie Kennedy, John and Nellie Connally, and Secret Service Agent Roy Kellerman executed quick head turns (spanning roughly half a second, or ~9 frames at Zapruder’s ~18.3 fps) in a tight cluster around frames Z140–150 — about 5 seconds (in real time) before the visible reactions associated with JFK’s back wound. You asked whether these could fairly be described as (1) “nearly simultaneous” and (2) voluntary, non-startle orienting responses to a sensory stimulus. I confirmed both characterizations are reasonable under the premise, noting they align with directed attentional scanning rather than reflexive startle.

We then examined the probability that these movements were responses to a loud, unexpected noise occurring about a second earlier. Initial estimates were modest (15–25%) because of the mixed directions (some leftward for JFK/Jackie/Connally, right/rear for Kellerman and Nellie), the absence of reported friendly crowd shouts (such as “Hi!”, “Hello, Mr. President!”, or similar greetings) at that moment that could plausibly have prompted the passengers to turn their heads, and the general plausibility of routine motorcade scanning/waving.

Elsie Dorman film evidence was introduced as a key corroborator: Dorman, filming from a fourth-floor TSBD office roughly 35 feet from the sniper’s nest (and thus exposed to ~135 dB from a hypothetical Carcano muzzle blast), showed a violent camera jiggle involving an inadvertent ~3-second filming stop. When her film is synchronized with the Zapruder film and Secret Service reenactment footage — using the motion and location of bystander Rosemary Willis (“running girl”) as the cross-reference anchor — the jiggle/stop aligns with a hypothetical early shot position labeled “Z-124” (a calculated frame, roughly half a second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133 after his 17-second pause). Similar jiggle patterns reportedly align with the later dubbed shot at Z-219. This placed the loud sound 0.9–1.4 seconds before the passenger head-turn cluster, a strong match for voluntary orienting response latencies. Additional reactors in the same narrow window (Z139–153) include:

George Hickey (follow-up car): leans forward and downward, looking at the pavement to the left of the limo.

Glen Bennett (follow-up car): leans far right to keep eyes on JFK (consistent with his later “firecracker” testimony).

Rosemary Willis herself, whose early reaction helped anchor the synchronization.

Psychoacoustic context: A sound from behind and above (TSBD sniper’s nest area) is notoriously difficult to localize precisely due to the cone of confusion and reliance on subtle spectral cues. This helps explain the observed directional mix rather than perfect unanimity.

With near-perfect Willis-based synchronization, Dorman’s extreme close-range startle, the expanded cluster (original five + Hickey, Bennett, and Willis), and Kellerman’s testimony, the probability that the quick, nearly simultaneous head turns were voluntary orienting responses to a single loud unexpected noise at ~“Z-124” (a hypothetical early missed shot) rises to 80–92%. This makes the shared auditory stimulus the leading explanation under the described premises, though residual uncertainties remain due to the modest number of clear reactors, enduring mainstream forensic timelines favoring a later first shot, and the lack of definitive physical evidence for an early miss.

ME: If the angular velocity of JFK's moving head from Oswald's perspective was significantly higher at "Z-124" than at, say, Z-148, Z-160, Z-222, and Z-313, would it support the theory that Oswald's first-of-three shots was at "Z-124" and that it missed everything?

GROK: Yes, it would strongly support the theory that Oswald’s first-of-three shots occurred at ~“Z-124” and missed everything (no impact on JFK, Connally, or the limousine).

Why higher angular velocity at “Z-124” favors an early miss

From the sniper’s nest perspective (TSBD 6th-floor southeast window), angular velocity (ω) is the apparent speed at which JFK’s head moves across the shooter’s field of view, measured in degrees per second. It is a key factor in target-tracking difficulty for a moving target:

Higher ω = the target crosses the sights faster → requires quicker rifle panning, more precise lead estimation, and a narrower margin for error (especially with a bolt-action Carcano and iron/telescopic sights).

Lower ω = the target appears more nearly stationary → easier to track and hit.

At ~“Z-124” (very early on Elm Street, just after the Houston-to-Elm turn and before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133), the limousine is farther away, still on a slight curve/incline, and its motion has a larger perpendicular component relative to the line of sight from the sniper’s nest. This produces significantly higher angular velocity of JFK’s head.By comparison:Later frames like Z-148/Z-160 (near the first visible reactions), Z-222 (throat/back wound), and especially Z-313 (fatal head shot) occur as the limousine straightens out and moves more directly away/down Elm Street. The perpendicular component shrinks, distance effects stabilize, and ω drops substantially — often to roughly half or less of the early value.

Peer-reviewed kinematic analyses confirm this pattern quantitatively. For example, one detailed sniper target-tracking study calculated approximate values from the TSBD window:Early miss position (pre-tree/early Elm, analogous to “Z-124”): ~7.6°/s (complete miss).

Subsequent hit positions: ~3.7°/s (upper-torso wound) and ~1.1°/s (head wound).

There is a clear correlation between higher early angular velocity and the documented miss. A significantly higher ω at “Z-124” than at the later hit frames would therefore be kinematically consistent with (and supportive of) the first shot being fired then, when the shot was objectively harder, and missing.Additional reinforcing factors in contextThe ~1-second latency to the passenger/SS/bystander reactions we discussed earlier aligns with voluntary orienting to a loud report at exactly this moment.

The Dorman film jiggle/stop (synced via Rosemary Willis) independently corroborates a loud external event at ~“Z-124”.

Psychoacoustics (rear/above localization difficulty) explain the mixed head-turn directions without contradiction.

In short, the hypothetical elevated angular velocity at “Z-124” would not be neutral or contradictory — it would be positive, independent ballistic/kinematic evidence favoring the early-miss timing over later first-shot models. It fits the pattern seen in rigorous motion analyses of the Zapruder film from the sniper’s exact vantage point and helps explain why a skilled (but rushed) shooter could miss the first attempt while succeeding on the subsequent, slower-angular-velocity shots.

If all that gobbledygook was supposed to impress me, it didn't work. I don't see how "angular velocity of JFK's moving head from Oswald's perspective" or "hypothetical elevated angular velocity" proves what caused the head movements. I think these guys were proponents of the adage, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS". It's always a tell for me when someone uses a lot of haughty verbiage to explain simple concepts. When I was on the John McAdams forum many years ago named Herb Blenner who would always resort to using that sort of jargon. We called it Blennerese. Nobody was impressed by him either.

[Tom Graves]

This is the WC visualization of the JFK head shot. Did the slug, or a fragment thereof, then strike the curb near the feet of Tague?

ME: Is it plausible that the bullet that hit JFK in the back of the head fragmented and that a piece of it struck the curb near James Tague?

GROK: Yes, it is plausible—both ballistically and based on the physical evidence—that the bullet striking JFK in the back of the head fragmented extensively, with a small piece (or pieces) continuing forward to strike the curb near James Tague and send concrete debris into his face. This is not the Warren Commission's official conclusion, but it aligns with known facts about the ammunition, wound ballistics, trajectories, and curb damage. Here's why, based on the documented evidence.

The fatal head shot (Zapruder frame 313, the third shot per the Warren Commission) was fired from a 6.5×52mm Mannlicher-Carcano full-metal-jacketed (FMJ) bullet from the Texas School Book Depository sixth-floor window. At that range (~265 feet / ~90 yards from the rifle), the bullet struck the rear of JFK's skull, fragmented dramatically on impact with bone, and caused the massive head wound seen in the Zapruder film, autopsy, and ballistics tests.

Two large fragments from this bullet were recovered in the front of the limousine (CE 567, the nose portion ~44.6 grains; CE 569, the base portion ~21 grains). These were matched ballistically to Oswald's rifle.

Roughly 90+ grains of the original ~160-grain bullet were unaccounted for (including smaller lead particles in the car and JFK's brain). Wound-ballistics experts, including Larry Sturdivan (who consulted for the Warren Commission and HSCA), noted that much of this missing mass sprayed forward after the skull impact.

At the moment of the head shot, the presidential limousine was on Elm Street, with the triple underpass (and Tague's position on the south curb/sidewalk nearby) further ahead and downrange. Tague was standing ~178 yards from the sniper's window overall, meaning the forward distance a fragment would need to travel from JFK's head to the curb mark was on the order of ~80–90 yards. One small fragment from the head shot already cracked the limousine windshield from the inside (a very short distance), demonstrating the forward spray of debris.

The curb mark itself (a fresh chip/scar on the south curb of Elm Street near the underpass, about 20–25 feet from Tague) showed:

A lead smear/residue consistent with the lead core of the assassination ammunition (per FBI spectrographic analysis after the curb section was removed in 1964).

No embedded copper jacket material.

This is exactly what you'd expect from a fragmented bullet's lead core (as from the head shot) rather than an intact FMJ bullet glancing off (as the Warren Commission attributed to the "missed" first shot). An intact Carcano bullet would likely have left copper traces.

Tague described the impact as a sting on his right cheek from flying concrete/debris during the shooting sequence. He initially linked it to the second or third shot (later pressed to say the second). Witnesses and police noted the fresh curb damage immediately after.

Ballistics analyses have explicitly considered this scenario plausible. For example:

Sturdivan and others observed that the missing head-bullet mass cleared the windshield area and continued in the general direction of Tague.
Forward trajectory extensions from the head wound align with the curb location.

A small, low-velocity lead fragment (with reduced but still sufficient energy after skull impact) could easily produce the minor, superficial injury and curb chip observed—far more consistent than some convoluted ricochet paths proposed for the "missed" first shot.

The Warren Commission concluded the curb strike came from the first (missed) shot to account for three spent cartridges, the two major wounds (neck + head), and Tague's injury—leading to the single-bullet theory for the neck/Connally wounds. That remains the official lone-gunman narrative. However, nothing in the ballistics, fragment recovery, curb metallurgy, or trajectories rules out a head-shot fragment as the source. In fact, the evidence (especially the lead-only residue and forward spray) fits it well. Some detailed forensic reviews treat it as a reasonable alternative explanation for the "missing" bullet mass and Tague's wound.

In short: the Carcano bullet did fragment on the head shot, fragments did travel forward, and the curb damage/Tague injury is consistent with one reaching that spot. It is physically and forensically plausible, even if it wasn't the Commission's preferred account.

[Benjamin Cole]

TG-

I don't buy it.

A small fragment of soft lead escaped from the jacketed slug, at moment of impact on JFK's skull, and then struck the curb 25 feet from Tague's feet, and that with enough force (remember, soft lead, that tends to compress when striking an object) to shoot up concrete with enough force to cause a cut on Tague's cheek?

Even so, we still have the problem that JFK's head was in between the bullet strike on his skull and the Tague curb area.

The bullet struck the lower right rear portion of the JFK's skull, see WC illustration.

---

One could also posit that someone with a handgun, such as a snub-nose .38, fired a shot at the limo and missed. Handguns use non-jacketed bullets, and this would result in a lead smear on the curb.

That would also account for the widely observed smoke-and-bang show on the GK. And the tell-tale smell of gunsmoke in Dealey Plaza in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA...with the wind blowing towards the TSBD from the Third Street overpass, thus ruling out LHO's M-L as the source of that gunsmoke.

AI:

Dallas Police Officer Joe Marshall Smith was one of several witnesses and officers who reported signs of gunfire, including the odor of smoke, near the grassy knoll on November 22, 1963.

According to his testimony and subsequent accounts, Smith's experience included the following:

Response to the Area: Immediately after the shots were fired, Officer Smith ran from his position on the Triple Underpass towards the parking lot area behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll.

Smell of Gunsmoke: Smith reported smelling a distinctive odor of "gunsmoke cordite" in the area behind the fence.

The Imposter Incident: While investigating, Smith reported confronting a man in the area who appeared to be hiding or acting suspiciously behind the fence. When Smith approached and asked what he was doing, the man showed him Secret Service identification, though it was later noted that all authorized Secret Service agents were believed to be in the motorcade.

Testimony Limitations: In his official Warren Commission testimony, Smith noted that he didn't know exactly where the shots came from due to the echo effect in the area, but his instincts led him to the area behind the concrete structure on the knoll.

Smith was among a group of people, including railway workers, who reported seeing a flash of light, hearing a loud report, or seeing a puff of smoke near the picket fence on the knoll.

---30---

Smith, a police officer and war vet, knew what gunsmoke smelled like.

I should probably do a separate post on this.

That Marxist LHO had some help?

[Tom Graves]

I don't see how "angular velocity of JFK's moving head from Oswald's perspective" or "hypothetical elevated angular velocity" proves what caused the head movements.

The fact that JFK's head at "Z-124" was much harder for Oswald to hit than at your beloved Z-160 or [fill in the blank] didn't cause JFK, Jackie, Connally, Nellie, and Kellerman to quickly turn their heads between Z-140 and Z-149, but the sounds of Oswald's (missing-everything) shot at "Z-124" did, as corroborated by the movements of Bennett, Hickey, and Willis during that same "window," and the fact that Elsie Dorman was so startled by Oswald's Carcano's being fired 35 feet away from her at "Z-124" and at approximately Z-222 that it caused her to inadvertently stop filming for about three seconds in both instances.

I think these guys were proponents of the adage, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS"

These guys?

GROK's a part of the X / Twitter platform, which the last time I checked was still owned by Trump's buddy, Elon Musk.

[John Corbett]

The fact that JFK's head at "Z-124" was much harder for Oswald to hit than at your beloved Z-160 or [fill in the blank] didn't cause JFK, Jackie, Connally, Nellie, and Kellerman to quickly turn their heads between Z-140 and Z-149, but the sounds of Oswald's (missing-everything) shot at "Z-124" did, as corroborated by the movements of Bennett, Hickey, and Willis during that same "window," and the fact that Elsie Dorman was so startled by Oswald's Carcano's being fired 35 feet away from her at "Z-124" and at approximately Z-222 that it caused her to inadvertently stop filming for about three seconds in both instances.


These guys?

GROK's a part of the X / Twitter platform, which the last time I checked was still owned by Trump's buddy, Elon Musk.

AI draws its information from other sources and since you had been referring to Roselle and Scearce, I assumed it was quoting them. If that is not the case, that's my mistake. If this is entirely AI, I have even less confidence in it than if it had taken its conclusion from the two guys whose study you had been referring to. I'm not at all surprised AI seems to have mastered the art of BS.

[Tom Graves]

AI draws its information from other sources and since you had been referring to Roselle and Scearce, I assumed it was quoting them. If that is not the case, that's my mistake. If this is entirely AI, I have even less confidence in it than if it had taken its conclusion from the two guys whose study you had been referring to. I'm not at all surprised AI seems to have mastered the art of BS.

You're so obsessed with the idea of BS because you've been fed a steady diet of it ever since you first read Ayn Rand, and especially ever since "former" KGB counterintelligence officer Vladimir Putin installed Donald "I Am Not A Rapist / I Am Not A Pedophile" Trump as our "president" on 20 January 2017.

30,573 "falsehoods" during his first term, alone.