The Tippit Shooting At 1:15-1:16, FACT

[John Corbett]

I basically agree with this. The Tippit murder has really never interested me beyond the level of the broad questions: Where was Oswald going? Why did Tippit stop? Why did Oswald shoot him?

Whys ask why. Both men are dead. They are never going to tell us why.

In another thread, I pointed out that the WC answered the key questions of who, where, when, and how. I purposely left off why from that list because we can never know the why nor do we need to know why. It's fun to speculate about the why and we might even guess right, but we can never know if we have guessed right.

All of the "problematical minutiae" has just never really interested me. The notion that this was some conspiratorial frame-up of Oswald just strikes me as so fantastically improbable that I've really never got past the threshold question, "What sense would that have made?" I read a great quote from a presentation that Paul Hoch gave in 1993: "We [CTers] have identified twelve of the three gunmen." I think this is the problem with much conspiracy thinking - there is just "too much" to be plausible. Hence my thread about focusing on plausibility, quality rather than quantity.

The WC took all the fun out of the game by giving us the answers to the important questions. I think that is what drives many CTs. They don't want a pat answer. They want something more interesting. It is rather boring to accept the answer that the DPD gave us about 12 hours after these double murders were committed. We aren't entitled to an interesting story. We are entitled to know the truth. In 62 years, I have seen nothing that makes me doubt the answers the WC provided us with.

[Mitch Todd]

So, if we can't rely on clocks and thus time stamps, how can LNs say with any kind of certainty that Tippit was shot at around 1:14:30?

Even more so, as there is evidence that Tippit's ambulance arrived at the hospital at 1:15. This time is given for the time of D.O.A. and also confirmed by police officer Davenport who followed the ambulance.

Btw, Tippit's murder wasn't a federal crime, yet the F.B.I. pestered hospital employees for days about the time of D.O.A.. Why would the F.B.I. even be interested in that, when they could simply have accepted the time on the death certificate?

MW: Even more so, as there is evidence that Tippit's ambulance arrived at the hospital at 1:15. This time is given for the time of D.O.A. and also confirmed by police officer Davenport who followed the ambulance.

As you are well aware, two members of the Methodist staff on hand for Tippit's arrival have said that the clocks in Methodist ER were unreliable. Dr Mollenhoff said, any discrepancy was due to issues with Methodist's time system.


MW: Btw, Tippit's murder wasn't a federal crime, yet the F.B.I. pestered hospital employees for days about the time of D.O.A.. Why would the F.B.I. even be interested in that, when they could simply have accepted the time on the death certificate?

At the time it occurred, JFK's murder was also not a federal crime. So why was the FBI investigating it?

[Martin Weidmann]

MW: Even more so, as there is evidence that Tippit's ambulance arrived at the hospital at 1:15. This time is given for the time of D.O.A. and also confirmed by police officer Davenport who followed the ambulance.

As you are well aware, two members of the Methodist staff on hand for Tippit's arrival have said that the clocks in Methodist ER were unreliable. Dr Mollenhoff said, any discrepancy was due to issues with Methodist's time system.


MW: Btw, Tippit's murder wasn't a federal crime, yet the F.B.I. pestered hospital employees for days about the time of D.O.A.. Why would the F.B.I. even be interested in that, when they could simply have accepted the time on the death certificate?

At the time it occurred, JFK's murder was also not a federal crime. So why was the FBI investigating it?

As you are well aware, two members of the Methodist staff on hand for Tippit's arrival have said that the clocks in Methodist ER were unreliable. Dr Mollenhoff said, any discrepancy was due to issues with Methodist's time system.

Since when are hospital workers experts on time systems? Show me their statements, please? I can't find their affidavits. Or did they simply express an opinion that you find convenient?

If the time system was indeed having problems, they could have easily get it repaired and obtain a written confirmation of what the problem was. I have never seen or heard this was ever done.

The official document authorizing an autopsy (written on November 22, 163 at 3:00 PM) says that Tippit was declared D.O.A. at 1:15 PM. If you want to dispute that time you will need a little bit more than an alleged statement by one or two hospital workers. Even more so as the officers Davenport and Bardin observed the doctors trying to revive Tippit before declaring him dead at 1:15 PM (which implies that the ambulance actually arrived at the hospital before 1:15 PM). They also mention in their report that 15 minutes later Dr. Moellenhoff removed a bullet from Tippit's body. The only problem is that we don't know which time piece Davenport and Bardin used.

Btw, another contemporary document that confirms the times reported by Davenport and Bardin is the receipt for the submission of a an uniform button and a bullet to the DPD evidence room, issued at 3:10 PM, on 11/22/63 On that document it is noted that Dr Liguori pronounced Tippit D.O.A. at 1:15 PM and Dr. Moellenhoff removed a bullet at 1:30 PM.


At the time it occurred, JFK's murder was also not a federal crime. So why was the FBI investigating it?

That's a good question. Dr. Earl Rose objected to the removal of Kennedy's body from Parkland Hospital on exactly that ground, but the Secret Service broke the law and took the casket anyway.

Where Kennedy differs from Tippit is that he was a federal employee and Tippit was a state officer. I'm only guessing that this could be the reason that FBI got involved, but a more likely scenario is that Hoover simply wanted to control the investigation and leaned on Chief Curry to ask the FBI for "assistance".