Mark Lane and Charles Brehm

[John Corbett]

Cronkite was full of xxxx. The WC never said the first shot was fired at Z210. They said the shot that hit JFK in the back was fired between Z210 and Z225. They were correct about that. They reached no conclusion as to whether that was the first or second of Oswald's shots. Given the advantage of decades to look at the Z-film and technologies not available to the WC at time, we can safely conclude that the first shot missed and it was the second shot that hit JFK in the back and went on to wound JBC.

It's amazing how many myths have arisen about the WC's conclusions regarding the timing of the shots, given the WC's clearly stated summary at the conclusion of the chapter that dealt with that issue. For many years there was a widely held belief that the WC concluded Oswald fired all three shots in 5.6 seconds or less. Perhaps Josiah Thompson's book Six Seconds in Dallas cemented that erroneous conclusion in people's minds. Nowhere was this myth more evident than in the scene from Oliver Stone's shitass movie in which Garrison and his assistant were in the sniper's nest with a Carcano rifle and his assistant started off with two lies. First he claimed the WC said the first shot missed. False. That is what happened but that was not a conclusion of the WC. Then he says the WC claimed the three shots were fired in under 6 seconds. That's false both regarding what the WC concluded and what actually happened. What made that especially deceitful is the two claims are mutually exclusive. The WC did allow for a first shot miss and they allowed for a 5.6 second time for all three shots but not both. The 5.6 second time frame is only compatible with a SECOND shot miss. Then to top it all off, the assistant tells Garrison, "I'm Oswald. Time me.". He then dry fires the rifle three times and Garrison tells him it was over 7 seconds. If you actually time that yourself with a stopwatch, it is under 6 seconds. And from that the assistant says that Oswald couldn't have done the shooting. All he did was prove that when one starts with invalid premises, one will likely reach invalid conclusions.  What is truly remarkable is how many whoppers Oliver Stone was able to cram into one short scene.

[Royell Storing]

   Oliver Stone's "JFK" is a movie. Why are you going ape sh*t over a movie? It's a very entertaining, star studded movie. And, it ultimately brought us the ARRB. Save your energy, save your profanity, pop some corn, and just enjoy the show. 

[John Corbett]

   Oliver Stone's "JFK" is a movie. Why are you going ape sh*t over a movie? It's a very entertaining, star studded movie. And, it ultimately brought us the ARRB. Save your energy, save your profanity, pop some corn, and just enjoy the show.

The problems is so many people think it is a work of history. It's amazing how many people I've dealt with over the years who learned most of what they think they know about the assassination from that movie. People to this day think the single bullet theory is impossible because of that flawed courtroom demonstration by Cosnter. Another fine example of how starting with a flawed premise leads to flawed conclusions.

[Joe Elliott]

None of this has the least bit of relevance.

For starters, Brehm seems not to have heard the first shot and can be seen in the Z-film still clapping his hands as JFK passed by him, slumping from having been hit by the second shot. Brehm is hardly alone. It appears that some people recognized the first bang as a gunshot and others did not. Connally instantly recognized it as the sound of a high powered rifle while JFK sitting behind him seemed oblivious to it. SS agent Bennett recognized the first sound as a gunshot while he was scanning the crowd to his right. He immediately turned his attention to JFK and saw the second shot strike him high on his upper right back. Meanwhile, SS agent Hill apparently did not recognize the first shot and is seen looking forward toward JFK after the second shot had struck JFK in the back. He heard the third shot as he was racing to the limo but only remembers hearing two shots total. It's a mystery as to why some recognized the first shot for what it was and others did not. Perhaps the accelerating motorcycles coming off the sharp turn on Elm St muffled the sound of that first shot. Perhaps some thought the first shot was a motorcycle backfire.

The direction a piece of skull flew is no indication of the direction of the shot. Only an autopsy can determine that. Entry and exit wounds have distinct characteristics and it is elementary for qualified medical examiners to determine which wounds were entrances. That's why EVERY qualified medical examiner who has seen the autopsy photos and x-rays has concurred with the original finding that JFK was hit by two shots from behind and there is no medical evidence of a shot from any other direction.

Case closed.

This is correct. Clearly from the Zapruder film, Brehm did not recognize either of the first two shots as shots. A very small group of people do seem to react to a shot around z153. Many to the shot at z222. And most to the shot at z312. A lot depends, I think, of what people were looking at when the shots were fired. Jean Hill was clearly not looking at JFK, but was turning her head to the rear to look at the follow up vehicles. I don't think she realized shots had been fired until after z312 and she found out due to the reactions of others. Never mind what she claimed.

Shouldn't a combat veteran like Brehm be among the first to recognize shots were being fired? It would depend on he was looking at, at Z222. If he was glancing down to make certain his young son did not dart into the street, probably not. The sound won't tell, necessarily because different weapons make different sounds and the motorcycles had a lot of backfires. We do not see Brehm until z276. My guess is that a z222, he was not looking at JFK. In any case, while it may seem surprising, Brehm did not recognize that shots had been fired until after z312.

[Tom Graves]

This is correct. Clearly from the Zapruder film, Brehm did not recognize either of the first two shots as shots. A very small group of people do seem to react to a shot around z153. Many to the shot at z222. And most to the shot at z312. A lot depends, I think, of what people were looking at when the shots were fired. Jean Hill was clearly not looking at JFK, but was turning her head to the rear to look at the follow up vehicles. I don't think she realized shots had been fired until after z312 and she found out due to the reactions of others. Never mind what she claimed.

Shouldn't a combat veteran like Brehm be among the first to recognize shots were being fired? It would depend on he was looking at, at Z222. If he was glancing down to make certain his young son did not dart into the street, probably not. The sound won't tell, necessarily because different weapons make different sounds and the motorcycles had a lot of backfires. We do not see Brehm until z276. My guess is that a z222, he was not looking at JFK. In any case, while it may seem surprising, Brehm did not recognize that shots had been fired until after z312.

Regarding the reactions of "a very small group of people around Z-153," do you think what we're seeing are startle reactions, or conscious reactions?

https://d7922adf-f499-4a26-96d4-8ab2d521fa35.usrfiles.com/ugd/d7922a_e280e26982b44f2c97c6e6e27026e385.pdf

[John Corbett]

Regarding the reactions of "a very small group of people around Z-153," do you think what we're seeing are startle reactions, or conscious reactions?

https://d7922adf-f499-4a26-96d4-8ab2d521fa35.usrfiles.com/ugd/d7922a_e280e26982b44f2c97c6e6e27026e385.pdf

I'll answer that. Clearly the reactions of JBC and Rosemary Willis are not startle reactions but cognitive reactions. Connally's reaction began at Z164 when he began to turn to his right. That is more than a half second after he would have heard the shot if indeed it was fired in the early 150s. Rosemary Willis gradually came to a stop before turning toward the TSBD. That happened in the early 170s.

[Steve Barber]

 
John Connally heard the first shot.  Therefore, he couldn't have been hit by that first shot.
Everything he said he did after hearing the first shot is captured on the Zapruder film.  He had just turned his head from right to left, then he suddenly jerked his head back to his right, and there his head remained in that position until he appeared from behind the Stemmons Freeway sign, the sudden two-time up and down motion of his shoulders, and the grimace on his face are the first signs of him being struck by the shot that he did not hear, and then he heard the third shot which stuck President Kennedy in the head. 

 This can all be heard in the 1964 CBS program "The Warren Report", which aired the day the Warren Report was released to the public.  Governor Connally gives a detailed account of what happened as soon as the car turned onto Elm Street.