Podcast On Tippit

[Martin Weidmann]

Get a grip.

I'm not the one inventing fantasyland delusions.
I'm not the one saying Oswald's only accessible jacket at the time was a perfect match for what the killer was wearing.
I'm not creating scenarios where jackets are secretly stolen.
I'm not the one who's saying stolen jackets are being clandestinely swapped into evidence.
I'm not the one saying that your Oswald doppelganger entered a carpark and dropped a perfectly matched jacket under a car.
I'm not the one cruelly saying Roberts was yet another mistaken eyewitness.
I'm not the one making up fairy tales that I have two identical Jackets in my clothing collection.
I'm not the one that's twisting my comments and lying about what I wrote.

The problem for you is that the Warren Commission did such a thorough job in finding Oswald guilty that you now have to keep inventing a string of impossible, illogical narratives to cover each piece of incriminating evidence.
Instead of just accepting a single individual assassinated Kennedy and Tippit, you dementedly have teams of unrelated conspirators in every branch of law enforcement and men in positions of power, organizing teams of assassins and doing all sorts of undetected tampering.

And you call me desperate?? -sigh-

JohnM

You're only the one who makes up all that bogus "I'm not the one..." BS!

Instead of just accepting a single individual assassinated Kennedy and Tippit,

I wouldn't hesitate one second to accept Oswald's guilt if the LN clan provides persuasive evidence for that guilt.
The problem is that you can't and never will be able to do so.

[Martin Weidmann]

No.

To get to her bus stop "some three minutes earlier" than the time the bus was due by would mean she would get to the bus stop at around 1:09 (for the 1:12 bus) or 1:19 (for the 1:22 bus).

The mistake you're making above is that you're assuming that she said the bus arrived at 1:15.  When she gave the time of 1:15 (which is the ONLY time she ever gave, re: her bus), we really can't know if she's saying she caught the bus at 1:15 (she'd be wrong if this is what she was saying) or that she usually got to the bus stop at 1:15.

The police radio report by Bowley at 1:17 (combined with what Bowley tells us he did upon arriving at the scene before taking the mic from Benavides) tells me that Markham was approaching the corner of Tenth & Patton around 1:15.


I guess it depends on what you mean by "a fairly safe time".  I mean, was she saying that she tries to get to the bus stop at 1:15?  If that's what she was saying and she was on what she'd consider her perfect schedule, then yes, she'd be at Tenth & Patton around 1:12 or a half minute after.

I don't rely on Markham's time estimate for one simple reason.  The police tapes, combined with the actions of T.F. Bowley (reporting the shooting on the squad car radio at 1:17), Mary Wright, Barbara Davis and L.J. Lewis (calling the police on the phone almost immediately after the shots rang out and the dispatcher Murray Jackson being unaware of any of their phone calls by the time he received the radio call from Bowley) tells me that Markham was at the corner at roughly 1:15/1:16.  In other words, the police tapes (combined with the self-described actions of the four I just mentioned) tell me that Markham's time estimate of when it was that she was at the corner was flat-out wrong.

It happens.


Here's how I've always seen it play out...

Markham is not actually at the corner when Tippit cruises slowly through the intersection.  I can imagine it like this... she's approaching the corner, perhaps forty or fifty feet still from the corner when she sees Tippit cruise along Tenth and crossing Patton.  By the time she actually gets to the corner, Tippit is pulling over or has just pulled over.  She sees the guy who was walking then walk over to the passenger side of the car and watched as the conversation between the two takes place.  Because of this, instead of continuing to walk on her merry way, she stands there at the corner wondering why a police officer in his squad car has pulled alongside a guy who was walking on the sidewalk.

In short, she has not arrived at the corner yet when Tippit drove through the intersection.


We can't assume that Markham was trying to catch a bus at 1:15.  There's no reason to assume that, especially since we know there was no 1:15 bus.

By the way, my opinion is that the shooting occurred around 1:15:30(ish).

Domingo Benavides told Eddie Barker (The Warren Report, part 3, CBS-TV, 1967) that he watched the killer go around the corner and then sat there in his truck "for a second or two" before getting out and going over to Tippit and, realizing there was nothing he could do for Tippit, grabs the police radio.  My opinion is that Benavides begins keying the mic shortly after 1:16 and was on the mic 30 to 45 seconds after the shots (based on getting out of his truck "a second or two" after the killer went around the corner).

No.

To get to her bus stop "some three minutes earlier" than the time the bus was due by would mean she would get to the bus stop at around 1:09 (for the 1:12 bus) or 1:19 (for the 1:22 bus).

That assumes that Markham knew the official timetable and that the busses would always run on time. The reality is that Markham, in her mind, needed to be at the bus stop at 1:15 to get her bus!

Mr. BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?
Mrs. MARKHAM. 1:15.

Busses seldom run exactly on time, so trying to argue that they did in this instance is disingenuous. Markham, in her mind, clearly needed to be at the bus stop every day at 1:15 and she would get on the first bus on her route that came along. That's how it works in the real world.

Markham is not actually at the corner when Tippit cruises slowly through the intersection.  I can imagine it like this... she's approaching the corner, perhaps forty or fifty feet still from the corner when she sees Tippit cruise along Tenth and crossing Patton.  By the time she actually gets to the corner, Tippit is pulling over or has just pulled over.  She sees the guy who was walking then walk over to the passenger side of the car and watched as the conversation between the two takes place.  Because of this, instead of continuing to walk on her merry way, she stands there at the corner wondering why a police officer in his squad car has pulled alongside a guy who was walking on the sidewalk.[/b]

Markham is not actually at the corner when Tippit cruises slowly through the intersection.  I can imagine it like this... she's approaching the corner, perhaps forty or fifty feet still from the corner when she sees Tippit cruise along Tenth and crossing Patton. 

Nice try, but that's not what is shown in a video you recently took part in, which showed a map with Markham being stationary for some time at 10th and Patton.
I just can't remember which video that was, but perhaps you know. Beyond that, you can imagine it all you want, it's still self-serving speculation.

Markham tells a different story;

In her statement to FBI Agent Robert Barrett on 3/16/64 she said "she had hoped to catch a bus at about 1:15 PM" According to Barrett "She stopped at this intersection in order to allow a police squad car and some other cars pass by.

Mr. BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?
Mrs. MARKHAM. 1:15.
Mr. BALL. So it was before 1:15?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it was.
Mr. BALL. When you came to the corner of Patton and 10th Street--first of all, what side of the street were you walking on?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Now you have got me mixed up on all my streets. I was on the opposite of where this man was.
Mr. BALL. Well, you were walking along the street--
Mrs. MARKHAM. On the street.
Mr. BALL. On Patton, you were going toward Jefferson?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And you were on the right- or left-hand side of the street as you were walking south?
Mrs. MARKHAM. That would be on the left.
Mr. BALL. Your right.
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it would be right.
Mr. BALL. Right-hand side, wouldn't it? When you came to the corner did you have to stop before you crossed 10th Street?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, I did.
Mr. BALL. Why?
Mrs. MARKHAM. On account the traffic was coming.
Mr. BALL. And you stopped there on the corner?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

If Markham wasn't stopped at the intersection by Tippit's cruiser passing by, she would have had no plausible reason for stopping. She was on her way to catch her usual bus and only had minutes to spare. That's not a moment for sightseeing!

By the time she actually gets to the corner, Tippit is pulling over or has just pulled over.  She sees the guy who was walking then walk over to the passenger side of the car and watched as the conversation between the two takes place.  Because of this, instead of continuing to walk on her merry way, she stands there at the corner wondering why a police officer in his squad car has pulled alongside a guy who was walking on the sidewalk.

And risk missing her usual bus? For a police officer calling a civilian and having a conversation with him? Really?

We can't assume that Markham was trying to catch a bus at 1:15.  There's no reason to assume that, especially since we know there was no 1:15 bus.

We don't have to assume it. Markham herself told us!

By the way, my opinion is that the shooting occurred around 1:15:30(ish).

So now you disagree with Dale Myers?

[Bill Brown]

No.

To get to her bus stop "some three minutes earlier" than the time the bus was due by would mean she would get to the bus stop at around 1:09 (for the 1:12 bus) or 1:19 (for the 1:22 bus).

That assumes that Markham knew the official timetable and that the busses would always run on time. The reality is that Markham, in her mind, needed to be at the bus stop at 1:15 to get her bus!

Mr. BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?
Mrs. MARKHAM. 1:15.

Busses seldom run exactly on time, so trying to argue that they did in this instance is disingenuous. Markham, in her mind, clearly needed to be at the bus stop every day at 1:15 and she would get on the first bus on her route that came along. That's how it works in the real world.

Nice try, but that's not what is shown in a video you recently took part in, which showed a map with Markham being stationary for some time at 10th and Patton.
I just can't remember which video that was, but perhaps you know. Beyond that, you can imagine it all you want, it's still self-serving speculation.

Markham tells a different story;

In her statement to FBI Agent Robert Barrett on 3/16/64 she said "she had hoped to catch a bus at about 1:15 PM" According to Barrett "She stopped at this intersection in order to allow a police squad car and some other cars pass by.

Mr. BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?
Mrs. MARKHAM. 1:15.
Mr. BALL. So it was before 1:15?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it was.
Mr. BALL. When you came to the corner of Patton and 10th Street--first of all, what side of the street were you walking on?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Now you have got me mixed up on all my streets. I was on the opposite of where this man was.
Mr. BALL. Well, you were walking along the street--
Mrs. MARKHAM. On the street.
Mr. BALL. On Patton, you were going toward Jefferson?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And you were on the right- or left-hand side of the street as you were walking south?
Mrs. MARKHAM. That would be on the left.
Mr. BALL. Your right.
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it would be right.
Mr. BALL. Right-hand side, wouldn't it? When you came to the corner did you have to stop before you crossed 10th Street?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, I did.
Mr. BALL. Why?
Mrs. MARKHAM. On account the traffic was coming.
Mr. BALL. And you stopped there on the corner?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

If Markham wasn't stopped at the intersection by Tippit's cruiser passing by, she would have had no plausible reason for stopping. She was on her way to catch her usual bus and only had minutes to spare. That's not a moment for sightseeing!

By the time she actually gets to the corner, Tippit is pulling over or has just pulled over.  She sees the guy who was walking then walk over to the passenger side of the car and watched as the conversation between the two takes place.  Because of this, instead of continuing to walk on her merry way, she stands there at the corner wondering why a police officer in his squad car has pulled alongside a guy who was walking on the sidewalk.

And risk missing her usual bus? For a police officer calling a civilian and having a conversation with him? Really?

We can't assume that Markham was trying to catch a bus at 1:15.  There's no reason to assume that, especially since we know there was no 1:15 bus.

We don't have to assume it. Markham herself told us!

By the way, my opinion is that the shooting occurred around 1:15:30(ish).

So now you disagree with Dale Myers?

That assumes that Markham knew the official timetable and that the busses would always run on time. The reality is that Markham, in her mind, needed to be at the bus stop at 1:15 to get her bus!

Mr. BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?
Mrs. MARKHAM. 1:15.

Busses seldom run exactly on time, so trying to argue that they did in this instance is disingenuous. Markham, in her mind, clearly needed to be at the bus stop every day at 1:15 and she would get on the first bus on her route that came along. That's how it works in the real world.

Again, the police tapes (combined with the actions of witnesses like Mary Wright, Barbara Davis and L.J. Lewis, who contacted the police shortly after the shooting) tell us that Markham was NOT going to arrive at Patton and Jefferson at 1:15.  She was approaching Patton and Tenth at 1:15.

Nice try, but that's not what is shown in a video you recently took part in, which showed a map with Markham being stationary for some time at 10th and Patton.
I just can't remember which video that was, but perhaps you know. Beyond that, you can imagine it all you want, it's still self-serving speculation.

You may be thinking of Fred Litwin's "On The Trail Of Delusion" podcast.  I was not responsible for the graphics, though I don't have a problem with them.

You asked for my opinion and then ridicule me by calling it "self-serving speculation".  You really are a dickhead, aren't ya?

Markham tells a different story;

In her statement to FBI Agent Robert Barrett on 3/16/64 she said "she had hoped to catch a bus at about 1:15 PM" According to Barrett "She stopped at this intersection in order to allow a police squad car and some other cars pass by.

Mr. BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?
Mrs. MARKHAM. 1:15.
Mr. BALL. So it was before 1:15?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it was.
Mr. BALL. When you came to the corner of Patton and 10th Street--first of all, what side of the street were you walking on?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Now you have got me mixed up on all my streets. I was on the opposite of where this man was.
Mr. BALL. Well, you were walking along the street--
Mrs. MARKHAM. On the street.
Mr. BALL. On Patton, you were going toward Jefferson?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And you were on the right- or left-hand side of the street as you were walking south?
Mrs. MARKHAM. That would be on the left.
Mr. BALL. Your right.
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it would be right.
Mr. BALL. Right-hand side, wouldn't it? When you came to the corner did you have to stop before you crossed 10th Street?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, I did.
Mr. BALL. Why?
Mrs. MARKHAM. On account the traffic was coming.
Mr. BALL. And you stopped there on the corner?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

If Markham wasn't stopped at the intersection by Tippit's cruiser passing by, she would have had no plausible reason for stopping. She was on her way to catch her usual bus and only had minutes to spare. That's not a moment for sightseeing!

Clearly YOU aren't aware that Jack Tatum would be approaching the intersection of Tenth & Patton while Tippit and his killer were talking.  Markham described "traffic was coming".  She didn't say a police car was coming.  Or... are we now accepting everything the FBI (in this case, Barrett) says is 100% true?  If that's the case, then the bag was indeed three feet long by six inches wide, according to Linnie Mae Randle (per Bookhout).

We don't have to assume it. Markham herself told us!

Markham tells us no such thing.  You're putting words into her mouth.  That's bad form.

[Martin Weidmann]

Again, the police tapes (combined with the actions of witnesses like Mary Wright, Barbara Davis and L.J. Lewis, who contacted the police shortly after the shooting) tell us that Markham was NOT going to arrive at Patton and Jefferson at 1:15.  She was approaching Patton and Tenth at 1:15.


You may be thinking of Fred Litwin's "On The Trail Of Delusion" podcast.  I was not responsible for the graphics, though I don't have a problem with them.

You asked for my opinion and then ridicule me by calling it "self-serving speculation".  You really are a dickhead, aren't ya?


Clearly YOU aren't aware that Jack Tatum would be approaching the intersection of Tenth & Patton while Tippit and his killer were talking.  Markham described "traffic was coming".  She didn't say a police car was coming.  Or... are we now accepting everything the FBI (in this case, Barrett) says is 100% true?  If that's the case, then the bag was indeed three feet long by six inches wide, according to Linnie Mae Randle (per Bookhout).

Markham tells us no such thing.  You're putting words into her mouth.  That's bad form.

Again, the police tapes (combined with the actions of witnesses like Mary Wright, Barbara Davis and L.J. Lewis, who contacted the police shortly after the shooting) tell us that Markham was NOT going to arrive at Patton and Jefferson at 1:15.  She was approaching Patton and Tenth at 1:15.

Rely on bad evidence and get bad results.

You may be thinking of Fred Litwin's "On The Trail Of Delusion" podcast.  I was not responsible for the graphics, though I don't have a problem with them.

Could be. No surpise that you don't have a problem with them. You won't have a problem with them if they showed Markham having a barbeque at that intersection.

You asked for my opinion and then ridicule me by calling it "self-serving speculation".  You really are a dickhead, aren't ya?

Said one dickhead to another. I asked you because there was a possibility you might come up with something credible. All I got was the same BS as per usual.

When you start talking about how you can imagine something; you are by definition speculating. Easy enough to understand!

Clearly YOU aren't aware that Jack Tatum would be approaching the intersection of Tenth & Patton while Tippit and his killer were talking.  Markham described "traffic was coming".  She didn't say a police car was coming.  Or... are we now accepting everything the FBI (in this case, Barrett) says is 100% true?  If that's the case, then the bag was indeed three feet long by six inches wide, according to Linnie Mae Randle (per Bookhout).

So, the FBI only tells the truth when you need them to? In my opinion no FD 302 is evidence of anything. It is my personal opinion that we would have been far better off without them as they only muddy the waters. Plain and simple. The point was that Markham told Bookhout that she hoped to catch a bas at about 1:15 PM and she only stopped because of a police car and cars passing by. She basically said the same thing in her WC testimony, athough she didn't mention the police car. If you think Bookhout lied about that, be my guest.

I'm very much aware of Jack Tatum coming up, but he didn't pass the intersection until after the shots, so he would have far enough away to give Markham time to pass the street. You make it out as a highway with loads of cars passing by. It wasn't and still isn't.

Markham tells us no such thing.  You're putting words into her mouth.  That's bad form.

She didn't? HAHAHAHAHA. Are you playing your typical semantics game again? Talk about utter dishonesty!

Markham never said that she took her regular bus at 1:15 PM? Are you for real?

Let me guess, normally Markham "usually" get's her bus at 1:15 PM (which would either be a delayed 1:12 or the 1:22) but on that day she figured she would leave 9th street later and just risk missing her usual bus. Oh well, anything to keep your fairytale alive, I suppose.

[John Corbett]

You're only the one who makes up all that bogus "I'm not the one..." BS!

Instead of just accepting a single individual assassinated Kennedy and Tippit,

I wouldn't hesitate one second to accept Oswald's guilt if the LN clan provides persuasive evidence for that guilt.
The problem is that you can't and never will be able to do so.

You can lead a horse to water...

[Martin Weidmann]

You can lead a horse to water...

I would let you lead me, if you only knew where the water actually is.....