JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Podcast On Tippit
Martin Weidmann:
--- Quote from: John Mytton on April 14, 2026, 03:47:34 PM ---I've got you really rattled as you are resorting to making the most absurd claims and making up things I never even remotely said? Your World is falling down all around you and it's Hilarious. :D
Well Weidmann, let's put that to the test, on the jacket on the left we can easily see the elastic and the subsequent gathering of the material above and on the jacket on the right we can clearly see the gathered fabric above and therefore we can determine where the elastic would be.
The end of the sleave is a relative constant size, which I've called "W" and in both images the distance between the elastic sections is Wx2.
Thanks for making this proof even stronger and your demise even sweeter.
JohnM
--- End quote ---
I've got you really rattled as you are resorting to making the most absurd claims and making up things I never even remotely said?
So, you didn't say this;
--- Quote from: John Mytton on April 14, 2026, 05:56:12 AM ---OMG WOW!
After going through my collection of images I found a photo of the rear of Oswald's jacket and the similarity to the carpark photo is even more striking, at both ends across the back of Oswald's jacket we see a small elastic section where the fabric is gathered and allowed to stretch so as to provide a snug fit around the mid-section, this design is seen in both photos!!
To confirm the uniqueness of this find,........
--- End quote ---
Well Weidmann, let's put that to the test, on the jacket on the left we can easily see the elastic and the subsequent gathering of the material above and on the jacket on the right we can clearly see the gathered fabric above and therefore we can determine where the elastic would be.
The end of the sleave is a relative constant size, which I've called "W" and in both images the distance between the elastic sections is Wx2.
Thanks for making this proof even stronger and your demise even sweeter.
So now you figure that the two photos actually show exactly the same size of the jackets?
You're looking at two photo and are desperately trying to make a point but failing miserably. But, what else is new?
You really need to get that desperation of yours under control.
John Mytton:
--- Quote from: Martin Weidmann on April 14, 2026, 05:07:40 PM ---You really need to get that desperation of yours under control.
--- End quote ---
Get a grip.
I'm not the one inventing fantasyland delusions.
I'm not the one saying Oswald's only accessible jacket at the time was a perfect match for what the killer was wearing.
I'm not creating scenarios where jackets are secretly stolen.
I'm not the one who's saying stolen jackets are being clandestinely swapped into evidence.
I'm not the one saying that your Oswald doppelganger entered a carpark and dropped a perfectly matched jacket under a car.
I'm not the one cruelly saying Roberts was yet another mistaken eyewitness.
I'm not the one making up fairy tales that I have two identical Jackets in my clothing collection.
I'm not the one that's twisting my comments and lying about what I wrote.
The problem for you is that the Warren Commission did such a thorough job in finding Oswald guilty that you now have to keep inventing a string of impossible, illogical narratives to cover each piece of incriminating evidence.
Instead of just accepting a single individual assassinated Kennedy and Tippit, you dementedly have teams of unrelated conspirators in every branch of law enforcement and men in positions of power, organizing teams of assassins and doing all sorts of undetected tampering.
And you call me desperate?? -sigh-
JohnM
Bill Brown:
--- Quote from: Martin Weidmann on April 14, 2026, 07:51:29 AM ---Thanks for helping John Mytton out. He was struggling, so now he can relax a bit.
Helen Markham, standing at the northwest corner of Tenth and Patton, testified to the Warren Commission that the cop-killer (who she positively identified as Lee Oswald) had on a short jacket that was open in the front and was grayish-tan in color.
As you mention Markham, there's something I have wanted to ask you ever since you did that video interview. Let me establish the context first. Markham testified that she took her usual bus to work from Jefferson at 1.15. You made a big deal about the time table showing there was a bus at 1.12 an 1.22 and I agreed it could have been either bus; a delayed 1.12 or indeed 1.22. The point is that if you take the same bus to work, you normally would try to get to the bus stop a few minutes earlier than the scheduled departure time. I know I did in my late teens when I caught the bus to my first, very modest, job. So, let's say for argument's sake that Markham would have at least tried to have gotten to the bus stop some three minutes earlier, at around 1.12 perhaps 1.13. Would that be fair?
Now we know from the FBI that Markham had to walk two blocks, from 9th street to Jefferson and that walking each block would have taken her 2,5 to 3 minutes. So, in order to get to the bus stop at a fairly safe time she would have had to leave 9th street at around 1.06 or 1.07, right?
Here's the problem I can't solve, so perhaps you can help me. Dale Myers has Markham standing on the corner of 10th and Patton when Tippit drives by. There's anything unusual to see a police cruiser pass by, she you would expect that after the car had passed, she would just cross the street and carry on walking to get to the bus stop on time. Right? But according to Myers, Markham didn't do that and I have never been able to understand that. Perhaps it would have been more understandable if Markham had a bit more spare time before she had to be at the bus stop, but why in the world would she risk missing her bus to observe for two minutes or so a police car? Can you explain that to me?
Now, let's just get back to the FBI timing of the walking distance. If we assume that Markham would have tried to be at least two minutes earlier at the bus stop to catch her bus at 1.15, and she did leave 9th street at 1.06 or 1.07, that would have gotten her to 10th and Patton at 1.10, perhaps 1.11. But according to Myers, and you argree with him, Tippit was shot at around 1.14.30. So what am I missing here? Did Markham get to 10th and Patton at 1.11 and stayed there for several minutes, or did she leave 9th street several minutes later at the risk of not getting to the bus stop on time. Can you make sense of this?
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---As you mention Markham, there's something I have wanted to ask you ever since you did that video interview. Let me establish the context first. Markham testified that she took her usual bus to work from Jefferson at 1.15. You made a big deal about the time table showing there was a bus at 1.12 an 1.22 and I agreed it could have been either bus; a delayed 1.12 or indeed 1.22. The point is that if you take the same bus to work, you normally would try to get to the bus stop a few minutes earlier than the scheduled departure time. I know I did in my late teens when I caught the bus to my first, very modest, job. So, let's say for argument's sake that Markham would have at least tried to have gotten to the bus stop some three minutes earlier, at around 1.12 perhaps 1.13. Would that be fair?
--- End quote ---
No.
To get to her bus stop "some three minutes earlier" than the time the bus was due by would mean she would get to the bus stop at around 1:09 (for the 1:12 bus) or 1:19 (for the 1:22 bus).
The mistake you're making above is that you're assuming that she said the bus arrived at 1:15. When she gave the time of 1:15 (which is the ONLY time she ever gave, re: her bus), we really can't know if she's saying she caught the bus at 1:15 (she'd be wrong if this is what she was saying) or that she usually got to the bus stop at 1:15.
The police radio report by Bowley at 1:17 (combined with what Bowley tells us he did upon arriving at the scene before taking the mic from Benavides) tells me that Markham was approaching the corner of Tenth & Patton around 1:15.
--- Quote ---Now we know from the FBI that Markham had to walk two blocks, from 9th street to Jefferson and that walking each block would have taken her 2,5 to 3 minutes. So, in order to get to the bus stop at a fairly safe time she would have had to leave 9th street at around 1.06 or 1.07, right?
--- End quote ---
I guess it depends on what you mean by "a fairly safe time". I mean, was she saying that she tries to get to the bus stop at 1:15? If that's what she was saying and she was on what she'd consider her perfect schedule, then yes, she'd be at Tenth & Patton around 1:12 or a half minute after.
I don't rely on Markham's time estimate for one simple reason. The police tapes, combined with the actions of T.F. Bowley (reporting the shooting on the squad car radio at 1:17), Mary Wright, Barbara Davis and L.J. Lewis (calling the police on the phone almost immediately after the shots rang out and the dispatcher Murray Jackson being unaware of any of their phone calls by the time he received the radio call from Bowley) tells me that Markham was at the corner at roughly 1:15/1:16. In other words, the police tapes (combined with the self-described actions of the four I just mentioned) tell me that Markham's time estimate of when it was that she was at the corner was flat-out wrong.
It happens.
--- Quote ---Here's the problem I can't solve, so perhaps you can help me. Dale Myers has Markham standing on the corner of 10th and Patton when Tippit drives by. There's anything unusual to see a police cruiser pass by, she you would expect that after the car had passed, she would just cross the street and carry on walking to get to the bus stop on time. Right? But according to Myers, Markham didn't do that and I have never been able to understand that. Perhaps it would have been more understandable if Markham had a bit more spare time before she had to be at the bus stop, but why in the world would she risk missing her bus to observe for two minutes or so a police car? Can you explain that to me?
--- End quote ---
Here's how I've always seen it play out...
Markham is not actually at the corner when Tippit cruises slowly through the intersection. I can imagine it like this... she's approaching the corner, perhaps forty or fifty feet still from the corner when she sees Tippit cruise along Tenth and crossing Patton. By the time she actually gets to the corner, Tippit is pulling over or has just pulled over. She sees the guy who was walking then walk over to the passenger side of the car and watched as the conversation between the two takes place. Because of this, instead of continuing to walk on her merry way, she stands there at the corner wondering why a police officer in his squad car has pulled alongside a guy who was walking on the sidewalk.
In short, she has not arrived at the corner yet when Tippit drove through the intersection.
--- Quote ---Now, let's just get back to the FBI timing of the walking distance. If we assume that Markham would have tried to be at least two minutes earlier at the bus stop to catch her bus at 1.15, and she did leave 9th street at 1.06 or 1.07, that would have gotten her to 10th and Patton at 1.10, perhaps 1.11. But according to Myers, and you argree with him, Tippit was shot at around 1.14.30. So what am I missing here? Did Markham get to 10th and Patton at 1.11 and stayed there for several minutes, or did she leave 9th street several minutes later at the risk of not getting to the bus stop on time. Can you make sense of this?
--- End quote ---
We can't assume that Markham was trying to catch a bus at 1:15. There's no reason to assume that, especially since we know there was no 1:15 bus.
By the way, my opinion is that the shooting occurred around 1:15:30(ish).
Domingo Benavides told Eddie Barker (The Warren Report, part 3, CBS-TV, 1967) that he watched the killer go around the corner and then sat there in his truck "for a second or two" before getting out and going over to Tippit and, realizing there was nothing he could do for Tippit, grabs the police radio. My opinion is that Benavides begins keying the mic shortly after 1:16 and was on the mic 30 to 45 seconds after the shots (based on getting out of his truck "a second or two" after the killer went around the corner).
Martin Weidmann:
--- Quote from: John Mytton on April 15, 2026, 01:36:43 AM ---Get a grip.
I'm not the one inventing fantasyland delusions.
I'm not the one saying Oswald's only accessible jacket at the time was a perfect match for what the killer was wearing.
I'm not creating scenarios where jackets are secretly stolen.
I'm not the one who's saying stolen jackets are being clandestinely swapped into evidence.
I'm not the one saying that your Oswald doppelganger entered a carpark and dropped a perfectly matched jacket under a car.
I'm not the one cruelly saying Roberts was yet another mistaken eyewitness.
I'm not the one making up fairy tales that I have two identical Jackets in my clothing collection.
I'm not the one that's twisting my comments and lying about what I wrote.
The problem for you is that the Warren Commission did such a thorough job in finding Oswald guilty that you now have to keep inventing a string of impossible, illogical narratives to cover each piece of incriminating evidence.
Instead of just accepting a single individual assassinated Kennedy and Tippit, you dementedly have teams of unrelated conspirators in every branch of law enforcement and men in positions of power, organizing teams of assassins and doing all sorts of undetected tampering.
And you call me desperate?? -sigh-
JohnM
--- End quote ---
You're only the one who makes up all that bogus "I'm not the one..." BS!
Instead of just accepting a single individual assassinated Kennedy and Tippit,
I wouldn't hesitate one second to accept Oswald's guilt if the LN clan provides persuasive evidence for that guilt.
The problem is that you can't and never will be able to do so.
Martin Weidmann:
--- Quote from: Bill Brown on April 15, 2026, 05:03:39 AM ---
No.
To get to her bus stop "some three minutes earlier" than the time the bus was due by would mean she would get to the bus stop at around 1:09 (for the 1:12 bus) or 1:19 (for the 1:22 bus).
The mistake you're making above is that you're assuming that she said the bus arrived at 1:15. When she gave the time of 1:15 (which is the ONLY time she ever gave, re: her bus), we really can't know if she's saying she caught the bus at 1:15 (she'd be wrong if this is what she was saying) or that she usually got to the bus stop at 1:15.
The police radio report by Bowley at 1:17 (combined with what Bowley tells us he did upon arriving at the scene before taking the mic from Benavides) tells me that Markham was approaching the corner of Tenth & Patton around 1:15.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "a fairly safe time". I mean, was she saying that she tries to get to the bus stop at 1:15? If that's what she was saying and she was on what she'd consider her perfect schedule, then yes, she'd be at Tenth & Patton around 1:12 or a half minute after.
I don't rely on Markham's time estimate for one simple reason. The police tapes, combined with the actions of T.F. Bowley (reporting the shooting on the squad car radio at 1:17), Mary Wright, Barbara Davis and L.J. Lewis (calling the police on the phone almost immediately after the shots rang out and the dispatcher Murray Jackson being unaware of any of their phone calls by the time he received the radio call from Bowley) tells me that Markham was at the corner at roughly 1:15/1:16. In other words, the police tapes (combined with the self-described actions of the four I just mentioned) tell me that Markham's time estimate of when it was that she was at the corner was flat-out wrong.
It happens.
Here's how I've always seen it play out...
Markham is not actually at the corner when Tippit cruises slowly through the intersection. I can imagine it like this... she's approaching the corner, perhaps forty or fifty feet still from the corner when she sees Tippit cruise along Tenth and crossing Patton. By the time she actually gets to the corner, Tippit is pulling over or has just pulled over. She sees the guy who was walking then walk over to the passenger side of the car and watched as the conversation between the two takes place. Because of this, instead of continuing to walk on her merry way, she stands there at the corner wondering why a police officer in his squad car has pulled alongside a guy who was walking on the sidewalk.
In short, she has not arrived at the corner yet when Tippit drove through the intersection.
We can't assume that Markham was trying to catch a bus at 1:15. There's no reason to assume that, especially since we know there was no 1:15 bus.
By the way, my opinion is that the shooting occurred around 1:15:30(ish).
Domingo Benavides told Eddie Barker (The Warren Report, part 3, CBS-TV, 1967) that he watched the killer go around the corner and then sat there in his truck "for a second or two" before getting out and going over to Tippit and, realizing there was nothing he could do for Tippit, grabs the police radio. My opinion is that Benavides begins keying the mic shortly after 1:16 and was on the mic 30 to 45 seconds after the shots (based on getting out of his truck "a second or two" after the killer went around the corner).
--- End quote ---
No.
To get to her bus stop "some three minutes earlier" than the time the bus was due by would mean she would get to the bus stop at around 1:09 (for the 1:12 bus) or 1:19 (for the 1:22 bus).
That assumes that Markham knew the official timetable and that the busses would always run on time. The reality is that Markham, in her mind, needed to be at the bus stop at 1:15 to get her bus!
Mr. BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?
Mrs. MARKHAM. 1:15.
Busses seldom run exactly on time, so trying to argue that they did in this instance is disingenuous. Markham, in her mind, clearly needed to be at the bus stop every day at 1:15 and she would get on the first bus on her route that came along. That's how it works in the real world.
--- Quote ---Markham is not actually at the corner when Tippit cruises slowly through the intersection. I can imagine it like this... she's approaching the corner, perhaps forty or fifty feet still from the corner when she sees Tippit cruise along Tenth and crossing Patton. By the time she actually gets to the corner, Tippit is pulling over or has just pulled over. She sees the guy who was walking then walk over to the passenger side of the car and watched as the conversation between the two takes place. Because of this, instead of continuing to walk on her merry way, she stands there at the corner wondering why a police officer in his squad car has pulled alongside a guy who was walking on the sidewalk.[/b]
Markham is not actually at the corner when Tippit cruises slowly through the intersection. I can imagine it like this... she's approaching the corner, perhaps forty or fifty feet still from the corner when she sees Tippit cruise along Tenth and crossing Patton.
--- End quote ---
Nice try, but that's not what is shown in a video you recently took part in, which showed a map with Markham being stationary for some time at 10th and Patton.
I just can't remember which video that was, but perhaps you know. Beyond that, you can imagine it all you want, it's still self-serving speculation.
Markham tells a different story;
In her statement to FBI Agent Robert Barrett on 3/16/64 she said "she had hoped to catch a bus at about 1:15 PM" According to Barrett "She stopped at this intersection in order to allow a police squad car and some other cars pass by.
Mr. BALL. You know what time you usually get your bus, don't you?
Mrs. MARKHAM. 1:15.
Mr. BALL. So it was before 1:15?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it was.
Mr. BALL. When you came to the corner of Patton and 10th Street--first of all, what side of the street were you walking on?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Now you have got me mixed up on all my streets. I was on the opposite of where this man was.
Mr. BALL. Well, you were walking along the street--
Mrs. MARKHAM. On the street.
Mr. BALL. On Patton, you were going toward Jefferson?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And you were on the right- or left-hand side of the street as you were walking south?
Mrs. MARKHAM. That would be on the left.
Mr. BALL. Your right.
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, it would be right.
Mr. BALL. Right-hand side, wouldn't it? When you came to the corner did you have to stop before you crossed 10th Street?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, I did.
Mr. BALL. Why?
Mrs. MARKHAM. On account the traffic was coming.
Mr. BALL. And you stopped there on the corner?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.
If Markham wasn't stopped at the intersection by Tippit's cruiser passing by, she would have had no plausible reason for stopping. She was on her way to catch her usual bus and only had minutes to spare. That's not a moment for sightseeing!
By the time she actually gets to the corner, Tippit is pulling over or has just pulled over. She sees the guy who was walking then walk over to the passenger side of the car and watched as the conversation between the two takes place. Because of this, instead of continuing to walk on her merry way, she stands there at the corner wondering why a police officer in his squad car has pulled alongside a guy who was walking on the sidewalk.
And risk missing her usual bus? For a police officer calling a civilian and having a conversation with him? Really?
We can't assume that Markham was trying to catch a bus at 1:15. There's no reason to assume that, especially since we know there was no 1:15 bus.
We don't have to assume it. Markham herself told us!
By the way, my opinion is that the shooting occurred around 1:15:30(ish).
So now you disagree with Dale Myers?
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