What do we see to the left of "Fedora Man on the Island" in the Wiegman clip?

[Charles Collins]

  You're welcome, Charles.  Glad I could add some help.

 So, the car in the photo (which I have added a red arrow pointing to) is the car in question, and Royell is stating that it is parked against the northernmost curb directly in front of the TSBD-not against the curb that forms the peninsula where the traffic light, lamp post, and highway signs are situated?

No Steve, I believe that Royell claims that the car you drew a red arrow pointing at is not yet there in the Weigman footage but is traveling towards that spot and doesn’t show up until about 20-seconds later in the Darnell footage.

 My opinion is that it actually is there in the Wiegman footage but is mostly hidden by the crowd on the island and Elm Street. There is either an optical illusion that has fooled me and some others or I am simply wrong. I will try to show it to you in the following images. Royell apparently doesn’t see anything on the island side of Elm Street in the Wiegman footage. While I think I am seeing two different cars, James Hackerott apparently thinks there is only one car and believes it is 5.5 feet further west than I think it is.

In the following image I have drawn a yellow outline of where the right rear taillight bumper appear to be to me. If you look back at the unmarked up photo, please notice that the odd shape of the reflection of the sun on the car on the TSBD side of Elm Street Extension is similar to the taillight/bumper of the car on the island side.




The following image is from the Wiegman film and is the one we are discussing. I added a yellow outline of what appears to me and some others to be the right rear taillight & bumper (similar to what I outlined on the photo you provided). I think the car on the other side of Elm Street Extension is a different one due to the different angles. However, I believe the concept is still the same.




I know it is difficult to “unsee” something like this once you believe in what it appears to be to you. We apparently have three different interpretations that each one firmly believes in.

[Royell Storing]

No Steve, I believe that Royell claims that the car you drew a red arrow pointing at is not yet there in the Weigman footage but is traveling towards that spot and doesn’t show up until about 20-seconds later in the Darnell footage.

 My opinion is that it actually is there in the Wiegman footage but is mostly hidden by the crowd on the island and Elm Street. There is either an optical illusion that has fooled me and some others or I am simply wrong. I will try to show it to you in the following images. Royell apparently doesn’t see anything on the island side of Elm Street in the Wiegman footage. While I think I am seeing two different cars, James Hackerott apparently thinks there is only one car and believes it is 5.5 feet further west than I think it is.

In the following image I have drawn a yellow outline of where the right rear taillight bumper appear to be to me. If you look back at the unmarked up photo, please notice that the odd shape of the reflection of the sun on the car on the TSBD side of Elm Street Extension is similar to the taillight/bumper of the car on the island side.




The following image is from the Wiegman film and is the one we are discussing. I added a yellow outline of what appears to me and some others to be the right rear taillight & bumper (similar to what I outlined on the photo you provided). I think the car on the other side of Elm Street Extension is a different one due to the different angles. However, I believe the concept is still the same.




I know it is difficult to “unsee” something like this once you believe in what it appears to be to you. We apparently have three different interpretations that each one firmly believes in.

   Regarding "interpretation" of what we are seeing on the Wiegman still frame above, we can clearly see between the legs of the people standing on the (L) of the traffic signal pole. We can easily see the street behind them. If this 17.5 Foot long "getaway" car was already parked there, we would see traces of this long car between their legs/behind them.  And that 17.5 Feet of car would be stretching from the Traffic Signal Pole back toward the railroad yard. That is a long, long, car. People have a tendency to always be looking at eye level/head level. LOOK DOWN. LOOK toward the ground behind these people on the Wiegman Film. There is Nothing behind them. No "getaway" car. Not Yet!

[Charles Collins]

   Regarding "interpretation" of what we are seeing on the Wiegman still frame above, we can clearly see between the legs of the people standing on the (L) of the traffic signal pole. We can easily see the street behind them. If this 17.5 Foot long "getaway" car was already parked there, we would see traces of this long car between their legs/behind them.  And that 17.5 Feet of car would be stretching from the Traffic Signal Pole back toward the railroad yard. That is a long, long, car. People have a tendency to always be looking at eye level/head level. LOOK DOWN. LOOK toward the ground behind these people on the Wiegman Film. There is Nothing behind them. No "getaway" car. Not Yet!

No Royell, what we are able to see between the legs of the spectators is the surface of the island. Here is one of James Hackerott’s images that shows how the surface of the island extends to the hips area of fedora man. I roughly outlined the shape of the island in yellow. The surface of Elm Street Extension is beyond the island. James’ 3D model is highly accurate. The line of sight is as close to Weigman's line of sight as is feasible. The main difference between James’ and my interpretations is I believe the car is about 5.5 feet further east. I have previously shown what appears to me to be a portion of the front right wheel of the car to the right of the traffic light post in the Wiegman film frame.

[Royell Storing]

No Royell, what we are able to see between the legs of the spectators is the surface of the island. Here is one of James Hackerott’s images that shows how the surface of the island extends to the hips area of fedora man. I roughly outlined the shape of the island in yellow. The surface of Elm Street Extension is beyond the island. James’ 3D model is highly accurate. The line of sight is as close to Weigman's line of sight as is feasible.

   I mentioned earlier that the Elm St Curb/Sidewalk does NOT extend that far toward the TSBD in a straight line. It CURVES around to the Elm St Extension. That straight line curb/sidewalk depiction is just wrong. And with the hooking curb comes the hooking sidewalk too. Look again at the Wiegman still frame. Fedora Man and Purse Woman are standing where the curb hooks around onto the Elm St Ext. You can easily see the curvature of the curb at Fedora Man's feet on this same Wiegman still frame. This is why some of those women are standing in the street vs standing on the elevated Island to watch the motorcade. There is simply no room for them to stand atop the Island near the Traffic Signal Pole. Officer Baker also showed us the narrowness of this area when he ran across that skinny portion of the Island with the "getaway" car on his (L). The narrowness of this area is exactly why some people refer to it as a "Peninsula" instead of an "Island". James's Lego Man/Fedora Man replication of that area is way off.

[Royell Storing]

No Steve, I believe that Royell claims that the car you drew a red arrow pointing at is not yet there in the Weigman footage but is traveling towards that spot and doesn’t show up until about 20-seconds later in the Darnell footage.

 My opinion is that it actually is there in the Wiegman footage but is mostly hidden by the crowd on the island and Elm Street. There is either an optical illusion that has fooled me and some others or I am simply wrong. I will try to show it to you in the following images. Royell apparently doesn’t see anything on the island side of Elm Street in the Wiegman footage. While I think I am seeing two different cars, James Hackerott apparently thinks there is only one car and believes it is 5.5 feet further west than I think it is.

In the following image I have drawn a yellow outline of where the right rear taillight bumper appear to be to me. If you look back at the unmarked up photo, please notice that the odd shape of the reflection of the sun on the car on the TSBD side of Elm Street Extension is similar to the taillight/bumper of the car on the island side.




The following image is from the Wiegman film and is the one we are discussing. I added a yellow outline of what appears to me and some others to be the right rear taillight & bumper (similar to what I outlined on the photo you provided). I think the car on the other side of Elm Street Extension is a different one due to the different angles. However, I believe the concept is still the same.




I know it is difficult to “unsee” something like this once you believe in what it appears to be to you. We apparently have three different interpretations that each one firmly believes in.

   Above is the Wiegman still frame. You can clearly see Fedora Man and Purse Woman are standing where the curb/sidewalk curve/wrap around the corner. The Lego Man depiction of this area is not accurate. Not even close.

[Tom Graves]

Here's the uncropped photo I posted:

Is it fair to say that Wiegman was approximately where the two "foreground" policemen are (with their backs to the camera on the right side of this photo) when he filmed the frames around the 1:46 mark of the frame-by-frame Wiegman film I linked, above, or was he somewhere between where those policemen are standing and where this cameraman took this photo from?

[Charles Collins]

   I mentioned earlier that the Elm St Curb/Sidewalk does NOT extend that far toward the TSBD in a straight line. It CURVES around to the Elm St Extension. That straight line curb/sidewalk depiction is just wrong. And with the hooking curb comes the hooking sidewalk too. Look again at the Wiegman still frame. Fedora Man and Purse Woman are standing where the curb hooks around onto the Elm St Ext. You can easily see the curvature of the curb at Fedora Man's feet on this same Wiegman still frame. This is why some of those women are standing in the street vs standing on the elevated Island to watch the motorcade. There is simply no room for them to stand atop the Island near the Traffic Signal Pole. Officer Baker also showed us the narrowness of this area when he ran across that skinny portion of the Island with the "getaway" car on his (L). The narrowness of this area is exactly why some people refer to it as a "Peninsula" instead of an "Island". James's Lego Man/Fedora Man replication of that area is way off.

Frankly, I got in an hurry adding the sketched yellow line to James Hackerott’s image and inadvertently shortchanged the eastern most part of the “hook” of the island by 2 or 3 feet. It actually extends a little further east than my sketch shows which was already described as “rough outline”. Here’s the shortchanged sketch again and two images from Wiegman’s film one with and one without the added yellow outline.












As we can see in the above two Weigman film images, the actual easternmost point of the island “hook” lines up with the second brick column east of the gated opening. I was not far enough east with my initial rough sketch.