JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
The best evidence Ferrie and Clay Shaw were close acquaintences
Gerry Down:
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on June 11, 2026, 10:28:13 AM ---Dear Gerry,
Do you think Clay Shaw and David Ferrie participated in the homosexual "thrill kill" assassination of JFK (which is what overly ambitious, scandal-plagued, and revengeful Jim Garrison believed until around April 1967), or do you think Shaw organized it for the evil, evil, evil, evil, evil CIA (which is what Garrison believed after he'd read a KGB article in a Communist-owned Italian newspaper)?
-- Tom
--- End quote ---
No, I don't believe either of those two things. I just suspect there is truth to the claim by Pena that Shaw and Ferrie were associates.
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Gerry Down on June 11, 2026, 11:02:48 AM ---No, I don't believe either of those two things. I just suspect there is truth to the claim by Pena that Shaw and Ferrie were associates.
--- End quote ---
If you don't believe in either of those scenarios, what does it matter if Ferrie and Shaw went dancing every evening?
Lance Payette:
Man of a Million Fragments: The True Story of Clay Shaw by Donald H. Carpenter is so fantastically detailed that it becomes tedious. As with Oswald, there simply wasn't sufficient "missing time" in his life for him to have done all the things he supposedly did. New Orleans being what it was, and Shaw and Ferrie having gay proclivities, it's conceivable they were once in the same room together (e.g., some party or gathering) but the idea of close acquaintances is belied by all the evidence. Carpenter follows through on the main Ferrie claims, and they just don't pan out. Why can't people just let go of these dead ends?
Michael T. Griffith:
--- Quote from: Gerry Down on January 26, 2026, 04:46:11 PM ---On a recent episode of The Lone Gunman podcast, Rob Clark reads out a Jan 1978 HSCA interview of Orest Pena. Its not his testimony, but an interview. Clark spends about 20 minutes reading the document here:
A particularly interesting part of the document, which Clark reads out at 1 hour 31 minutes, has Orest Pena stating:
“…Ferrie and Clay Shaw both came to my bar many times. They definitely knew each other because they came together a few times. Throughout the interview, Mr. Pena alluded to or inferred many pieces of information that he is in possession of. In effect he wanted some good faith on the part of the committee before he would talk about things. For instance, on the subject of Ferrie and Shaw he states that he knows the identity of a woman who came to the bar with Ferrie and she will be willing to talk to us. However he refused to identify her at this time.”
Orest Pena is generally viewed as a credible witness and so for Pena to say this would appear to be the best evidence that Ferrie and Shaw knew each other very well. Does anyone have a link to the Jan 1978 interview which Rob Clark reads out in the podcast and a link to the 90 page long testimony he references?
The only HSCA testimony of Pena I can find is his June 23rd 1978 testimony (RIF: 180-10075-10169) and that is only 36 pages long (not 90 pages) and can be viewed here:
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32246611.pdf
There is also a July 31st 1978 summary of that June 23rd testimony (RIF: 180-10075-10166). The July 31st 1978 summary can be viewed here:
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32246608.pdf
--- End quote ---
Gerry, there is additional evidence that supports Pena's claims. I say the following on this matter in my book A Comforting Lie: The Myth That a Lone Gunman Killed President Kennedy:
According to an HSCA document released by the ARRB, Orest Pena, an anti-Castro Cuban who was involved in training anti-Castro fighters, told the HSCA that Oswald was a government agent or informant. Pena was an FBI informant and operated a bar in New Orleans when Oswald spent time there, and Oswald was known to have visited Pena’s bar. Pena also told the HSCA that he gave this information to the WC but that the Commission ignored it (23:5-35).
Pena reported that on several occasions he saw Oswald speaking with FBI Cuban specialist Warren de Brueys, with David Smith at the Customs office, and with Wendell Roache at the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) office in New Orleans.
Pena was not always consistent in his accounts, but Roache confirmed Pena’s account about seeing Oswald in the New Orleans INS office when Roache was interviewed by the Church Committee. Roache said that he had “frequently” seen Oswald in the INS office and that Oswald even had an office there (24:2).
Roache stated in another Church Committee interview that during INS surveillance, Oswald was seen going into the offices of David Ferrie’s anti-Castro group in New Orleans, and that “Oswald was known to be one of the men in the group” (25:1). (pp. 62-63)
If you'll message me your mailing address, I'd be glad to send you a free copy of my book.
In reading your replies in this thread, I am again impressed by your calm, respectful demeanor. You are always a gentleman. (You and Fred are my two "favorite" lone-gunman theorists!)
Gerry Down:
--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on June 11, 2026, 06:54:55 PM ---Gerry, there is additional evidence that supports Pena's claims. I say the following on this matter in my book A Comforting Lie: The Myth That a Lone Gunman Killed President Kennedy:
According to an HSCA document released by the ARRB, Orest Pena, an anti-Castro Cuban who was involved in training anti-Castro fighters, told the HSCA that Oswald was a government agent or informant. Pena was an FBI informant and operated a bar in New Orleans when Oswald spent time there, and Oswald was known to have visited Pena’s bar. Pena also told the HSCA that he gave this information to the WC but that the Commission ignored it (23:5-35).
Pena reported that on several occasions he saw Oswald speaking with FBI Cuban specialist Warren de Brueys, with David Smith at the Customs office, and with Wendell Roache at the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) office in New Orleans.
Pena was not always consistent in his accounts, but Roache confirmed Pena’s account about seeing Oswald in the New Orleans INS office when Roache was interviewed by the Church Committee. Roache said that he had “frequently” seen Oswald in the INS office and that Oswald even had an office there (24:2).
Roache stated in another Church Committee interview that during INS surveillance, Oswald was seen going into the offices of David Ferrie’s anti-Castro group in New Orleans, and that “Oswald was known to be one of the men in the group” (25:1). (pp. 62-63)
If you'll message me your mailing address, I'd be glad to send you a free copy of my book.
In reading your replies in this thread, I am again impressed by your calm, respectful demeanor. You are always a gentleman. (You and Fred are my two "favorite" lone-gunman theorists!)
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the offer. I've already bought and read your book.
Thanks for the kind words by the way Thumb1:
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