JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate

How soon?

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Michael T. Griffith:

--- Quote from: Tom Graves on January 08, 2026, 12:37:12 PM ---How soon will Trump-supporting tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theorists start saying the videos of the woman being killed in Minneapolis by the ICE agent were altered?
--- End quote ---

How soon will you find some nutty way to link Putin and Russian intelligence to the ICE shooting in Minneapolis?

Just a friendly reminder that Trump-supporting JFKA conspiracy theorists belong to the 2/3 to 3/4 majority of Westerners who reject the lone-gunman theory. You might want to keep in mind that your view of the JFK case is shared by only 1/4 to 1/3 of the Western world.

What will you say when no one claims that the videos of the Minneapolis shooting have been altered?

Tom Graves:

--- Quote from: Lance Payette on January 08, 2026, 07:39:06 PM ---They aren't eating my pets, dearie. Even my Pet Rock is armed with a small but functional handgun made of petrified wood.

No, as an Arizonan I never wish I was in Minnesota for any purpose. Having now read about the incident, it sounds as though the unfortunate Poet Mom went into some sort of panic mode that cost her life - or, alternatively, that she actually did attempt to run down the ICE agents like some sort of crazed QAnon Shaman. I do not make light of the incident - a genuine tragedy, but I learned long ago that sane people Just Do What Armed Officers Tell Them to Do.

--- End quote ---

Dear FPR,

ICE agent Jonathan "Jon" Ross was standing on the side of the vehicle when he fired his first shot (through the windshield). Trying to avoid hitting him, she had already started turning to the right around the stupidly-left-open door of his vehicle at that point.

IMHO, he should be arrested and charged with murder.

-- Tom

Tom Graves:

--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on January 08, 2026, 07:17:40 PM ---Trump-supporting JFKA conspiracy theorists belong to the 2/3 to 3/4 majority of Westerners who reject the lone-gunman theory.

Your view of the JFK case is shared by only 1/4 to 1/3 of the Western world.

--- End quote ---

Dear Comrade Griffith,

Thanks for proving my point, i.e., that since late 1961, when the two-year-old top-secret Department 14 of General Oleg Gribanov Second Chief Directorate (today's FSB) sent GRU Lt. Col. Dmitry Polyakov to the FBI's NYC field office to "volunteer" to spy for it at the UN (followed a month later by its sending KGB Major Aleksei Kulak to do the same thing), the KGB, by waging disinformation, "active measures," and mole-based (can you say Bruce Leonard Solie, Leonard V. McCoy and George Kisevalter?) strategic deception counterintelligence operations against us and our NATO allies, has, ever since then, been very successful in getting us to defeat ourselves.

The fact that so many Trump supporters are, like you, tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theorists is living proof of how truly effective it has been.

-- Tom

Tom Graves:

--- Quote from: Lance Payette on January 09, 2026, 12:54:19 PM ---Jump to conclusions much? One might almost begin to suspect little people in FSB/SVR* uniforms are living inside your noggin. (*Formerly KGB. See what I did there?  :D)

Her "wife" (but of course) is heard saying that she (the "husband") was there for anti-ICE purposes. This was not Suzy Creamcheese. I'm not saying this was not a tragedy or that ICE could not have handled it better, but your inevitable knee-jerk responses say far more about YOU than about Trump or his supporters.

--- End quote ---

Dear FPR (Fancy Pants Rants),

Do you think "a little-bit sensitive" Agent Ross was standing in front of the car when he fired his first shot (through the lower-right corner of the windshield)?

Even if "a little bit sensitive" Agent Ross was standing in front of the vehicle when he fired his first shot (which he wasn't), do you think Ms. Good tried to hit him?

If not, do you think it's legal for law enforcement to shoot someone who's trying to get away from them?

-- Tom


--- Quote ---I think you have the most advanced case of TDS I've ever seen.

--- End quote ---

Dear FPR (Fancy Pants Rants),

Truth-be-told, I don't like Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, or Jeffrey Dahmer very much, either.

-- Tom

Steve M. Galbraith:

--- Quote from: Lance Payette on January 09, 2026, 08:19:28 PM ---This whole thread belongs on the U. S. Politics thread, but having now watched the ICE Agent's cellphone video on CNN, I must say, in my official capacity as a Retired Former Lawyer, that ICE Agent Ross is, or at least should be, in a world of trouble.

Here is the USDOJ policy on the use of deadly force: https://www.justice.gov/jm/1-16000-department-justice-policy-use-force.

Specifically concerning vehicles, it says:

Firearms may not be discharged solely to disable moving vehicles. Specifically, firearms may not be discharged at a moving vehicle unless: (1) a person in the vehicle is threatening the officer or another person with deadly force by means other than the vehicle; or (2) the vehicle is operated in a manner that threatens to cause death or serious physical injury to the officer or others, and no other objectively reasonable means of defense appear to exist, which includes moving out of the path of the vehicle. Firearms may not be discharged from a moving vehicle except in exigent circumstances. In these situations, an officer must have an articulable reason for this use of deadly force.

The interactions between Renee and Rebecca Good and the ICE Agents immediately preceding the incident strike me as about as non-threatening as they could be. I literally cannot believe that this escalated into Renee being shot point-blank seconds later.

The over-the-top knee-jerk efforts of Administration officials to justify this, and the over-the-top comments at the FOX website, just show how fragmented and rage-filled this country has become. When the best you can do right off the bat is J. D. Vance screeching about "Absolute immunity!" (no way, Jose), you know rationality has left the building. The TDS Cult and the Trump Cult are literally at war, with the rest of us inceasingly caught in the middle.

Agent Ross had better find a whiz-bang lawyer and sympathetic jury if he hopes to tap dance his way out of those videos and that DOJ policy.

--- End quote ---

How can he be prosecuted for violating DOJ policy? A policy is not a law. If he's violating DOJ policy then he can be disciplined by DOJ. But what *law* did he violate? Isn't that the question? You're citing the policy but not the law.

The policy is, as I read it, based largely on a Supreme Court decision, Graham vs. Connor, that used a "reasonable" standard to determine whether the action was lawful or not. That's the law we need to look at. So the question (for me) then is whether or not, in that moment, the officer reasonably feared for his life. And if he did reasonably fear for his life, then unfortunately, he was justified in opening fire and firing all three shots.

To put it otherwise: Was his fear of harm reasonable or not? He probably violated DOJ policy. But did he violate the law? It's not clear to me he did.

Question: Did Ross interact with the driver? It appears he didn't. As you point out, the interactions between the parties before the shooting. Whether the agents escalated matters (seems to me they handled it poorly) or the driver? Lots of things we don't yet know. And really, how many times have we had where what we thought we knew on Day #1 turned upside down on Day #2? It seems to always happen.

Graham is here: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/490/386/

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