Jim Chaney and the first shot timing

[Royell Storing]

  You guys are unable to figure the Chaney issue out due to 1 Thing. You continue to swear by the Current Zapruder Film. The Current Z Film has and always will conflict with Eyewitness Accounts. It also conflicts with the worldwide Dan Rather broadcasts describing what he saw on the Zapruder Film he viewed the weekend following the assassination. The Z film has a "Gap" in it that would make Richard Nixon/Rose Mary Woods proud. The Current Zapruder Film has also been spliced and diced. Reliance on the Current Zapruder Film will always result in conflict and confusion. It is tainted.

[Duncan MacRae]

The Current Z Film has and always will conflict with Eyewitness Accounts. It also conflicts with the worldwide Dan Rather broadcasts describing what he saw on the Zapruder Film he viewed the weekend following the assassination.

[Tom Graves]

The poor guy was shown the film only once and then had to run several blocks to the studio and try to recall, without notes, what he'd seen.

[Jack Nessan]

Here is what Chaney reportedly told the FBI in 1975:

DPD Chaney's first four statements were that there were only two shots. It takes 12 more years for him to add the additional shot. He was wrong four different times in 1963 but right in 1975?

James Chaney . (11-22-63 interview with KLIF radio, reportedly around 12:45 PM--but not broadcast at that time--"On the first shot we thought it was a motorcycle backfire. I looked to my left and so did President Kennedy, looking back over his left shoulder, and when the second shot struck him in the face then we knew that someone was shooting at the President." (When asked what happened after the President was hit) "He slumped forward in the car. He fell forward into the seat there." (When asked Mrs. Kennedy's reaction) "I don't know. When I seen that he was hit well I went on up ahead to tell Chief Curry's group there that he had been hit there, and we took him on to the hospital from there." (When then asked if he saw where the bullet had come from) "No, all I knew is it come over my right shoulder."

An example of Medias Influence

(Note: some sources have it that Chaney mentioned “a third shot that was fired that (he) did not see hit the President” and that he did see “Governor Connally’s shirt erupt in blood..” in one of his first interviews, but I can not find a primary source for these quotes.)

 (Article in the 12-2-63 issue of Newsweek, presumed to be based on an 11-22-63 interview of Chaney at Parkland Hospital by motorcade witness Charles Roberts) (On the first shot) "'I thought it was a backfire,' said Dallas Patrolman James M. Chaney, who was riding a motorcycle 6 feet from the right rear fender of the President's car." The President jerked his head around...Then (came) the second shot and his head exploded in blood..." 

(11-22-63 interview with Bill Lord on WFAA television, apparently in the early evening) “I was riding on the right rear fender... We had proceeded west on Elm Street at approximately 15-20 miles an hour. We heard the first shot. I thought it was a motorcycle backfiring and uh I looked back over to my left and also President Kennedy looked back over his left shoulder. Then, the, uh, second shot came, well, then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet. He slumped forward into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap, and uh, it was apparent to me that we were being fired upon. I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital and he had Parkland Hospital stand by. I went on up ahead of the, to notify the officers that were leading the escort that he had been hit and we're gonna have to move out." (When asked if he saw the person who fired on the President) "No sir, it was back over my right shoulder.” (At the end of the interview, Bill Lord, now back in the studio, adds "This patrolman was so close to the president that following the three shots his uniform was spattered with blood." 

(11-23-63 article in the Houston Post) "Dallas Police Motorcycle Officer J. M. Chaney told a Houston Post reporter that he was riding about six feet from the right rear fender of the President's car. He heard two shots that seemed to come over his right shoulder, he said. He said the President turned his face around over his left shoulder to look back after the first shot and was hit by the second shot in the left side of the head. Chaney said he did not know if the first shot hit anybody or not."

Another great example of “Medias Influence”. DPD Chaney never said this at all; Chris Davidson stated it for DPD Chaney.

 (11-24-63 article in the Houston Chronicle, posted online by Chris Davidson) "A motorcycle policeman just six feet from President Kennedy when he was hit said the assassin's first shot missed entirely. The second of the three shots felled Kennedy, said patrolman James M. Chaney. He was six feet to the right and front of the President's car, moving about 15 miles an hour while rounding a curve. The shot, said Chaney, came from the sixth floor of a warehouse building about 50 feet or less behind the President's car. From the sixth floor to the President, the bullet traveled about 110 feet, Chaney estimated. Chaney was an infantryman in Europe during World War II, with experience in sharpshooting. 'When the first shot was fired, I thought it was a backfire,' Chaney said. Everyone looked around. The President was looking back over his left shoulder. A second or two after the first shot, the second shot hit him. 'It was like you hit him in the face with a tomato. Blood went all over the car.   

DPD Chaney is still referencing the second shot was the headshot. Newsman Chris Davidson completely misses the point.
 

[Royell Storing]

The poor guy was shown the film only once and then had to run several blocks to the studio and try to recall, without notes, what he'd seen.

  You do realize that Rather would eventually hold the same CBS News Anchor position as Walter Cronkite? Yet, here you are describing Rather as being a halfwit.

[Tom Graves]

You do realize that Rather would eventually hold the same CBS News Anchor position as Walter Cronkite? Yet, here you are describing Rather as being a halfwit.

Comrade Storing,

Not at all.

Dan Rather did a commendable job under the circumstances, i.e., not being allowed to see the clip more than once, having to run several blocks to the studio immediately afterwards, and telling the nation, without notes, what he thought he remembered seeing in it.

Give him a break.

He was spot-on on the most important thing -- JFK was shot.

-- Tom

[Charles Collins]

DPD Chaney's first four statements were that there were only two shots. It takes 12 more years for him to add the additional shot. He was wrong four different times in 1963 but right in 1975?

James Chaney . (11-22-63 interview with KLIF radio, reportedly around 12:45 PM--but not broadcast at that time--"On the first shot we thought it was a motorcycle backfire. I looked to my left and so did President Kennedy, looking back over his left shoulder, and when the second shot struck him in the face then we knew that someone was shooting at the President." (When asked what happened after the President was hit) "He slumped forward in the car. He fell forward into the seat there." (When asked Mrs. Kennedy's reaction) "I don't know. When I seen that he was hit well I went on up ahead to tell Chief Curry's group there that he had been hit there, and we took him on to the hospital from there." (When then asked if he saw where the bullet had come from) "No, all I knew is it come over my right shoulder."

An example of Medias Influence

(Note: some sources have it that Chaney mentioned “a third shot that was fired that (he) did not see hit the President” and that he did see “Governor Connally’s shirt erupt in blood..” in one of his first interviews, but I can not find a primary source for these quotes.)

 (Article in the 12-2-63 issue of Newsweek, presumed to be based on an 11-22-63 interview of Chaney at Parkland Hospital by motorcade witness Charles Roberts) (On the first shot) "'I thought it was a backfire,' said Dallas Patrolman James M. Chaney, who was riding a motorcycle 6 feet from the right rear fender of the President's car." The President jerked his head around...Then (came) the second shot and his head exploded in blood..." 

(11-22-63 interview with Bill Lord on WFAA television, apparently in the early evening) “I was riding on the right rear fender... We had proceeded west on Elm Street at approximately 15-20 miles an hour. We heard the first shot. I thought it was a motorcycle backfiring and uh I looked back over to my left and also President Kennedy looked back over his left shoulder. Then, the, uh, second shot came, well, then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet. He slumped forward into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap, and uh, it was apparent to me that we were being fired upon. I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital and he had Parkland Hospital stand by. I went on up ahead of the, to notify the officers that were leading the escort that he had been hit and we're gonna have to move out." (When asked if he saw the person who fired on the President) "No sir, it was back over my right shoulder.” (At the end of the interview, Bill Lord, now back in the studio, adds "This patrolman was so close to the president that following the three shots his uniform was spattered with blood." 

(11-23-63 article in the Houston Post) "Dallas Police Motorcycle Officer J. M. Chaney told a Houston Post reporter that he was riding about six feet from the right rear fender of the President's car. He heard two shots that seemed to come over his right shoulder, he said. He said the President turned his face around over his left shoulder to look back after the first shot and was hit by the second shot in the left side of the head. Chaney said he did not know if the first shot hit anybody or not."

Another great example of “Medias Influence”. DPD Chaney never said this at all; Chris Davidson stated it for DPD Chaney.

 (11-24-63 article in the Houston Chronicle, posted online by Chris Davidson) "A motorcycle policeman just six feet from President Kennedy when he was hit said the assassin's first shot missed entirely. The second of the three shots felled Kennedy, said patrolman James M. Chaney. He was six feet to the right and front of the President's car, moving about 15 miles an hour while rounding a curve. The shot, said Chaney, came from the sixth floor of a warehouse building about 50 feet or less behind the President's car. From the sixth floor to the President, the bullet traveled about 110 feet, Chaney estimated. Chaney was an infantryman in Europe during World War II, with experience in sharpshooting. 'When the first shot was fired, I thought it was a backfire,' Chaney said. Everyone looked around. The President was looking back over his left shoulder. A second or two after the first shot, the second shot hit him. 'It was like you hit him in the face with a tomato. Blood went all over the car.   

DPD Chaney is still referencing the second shot was the headshot. Newsman Chris Davidson completely misses the point.

In every case that you cited above, Chaney says JFK looked over his left shoulder after the first noise. In none of those cases does he indicate that JFK was hit by the first noise. We can clearly see JFK turn his head to look over his left shoulder around the mid Z140s to the mid Z150s in the Zapruder film. No where else in the Zapruder film does JFK turn to look over his left shoulder.

In the television interview Chaney’s words are (per your post):

Then, the, uh, second shot came, well, then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet.

As Chaney later clarified per the FBI report, he looked back and saw JFK struck in the head after “the, uh, second shot came.” And that is precisely how his words in the television interview of 11/22/63 should be interpreted (according to proper grammar).

[Zeon Mason]

DPD motorcycle cop Jim Chaney was riding escort to the right side of the limo. He was the closest cop to JFK. Jim said that he thought the first shot was a motorcycle backfire. Jim Chaney said in a TV interview on 11/22/63 that he looked over at JFK right after he heard the shot and that JFK was looking towards his left shoulder. Here is a clip showing Chaney starting at Z136 through Z153. It appears to me that Chaney is turning his head to his left to look at JFK:





Meanwhile, JFK is shown in this clip during frames Z133 through Z154. JFK finishes fixing his hair and turns his head quickly towards his left shoulder. I would guess that he is checking on Jackie after hearing the first shot (which many folks thought to be a motorcycle backfire).

What’s interesting in this range of Z140-Z150, is how SS agent Hickey  leaned to his left ( and was looking down at the road and or left side of the JFK limo?). It seems to be in sync with JFKs head turn to left.

But if it’s a loud shot from TSBD from Z140-Z150, why are none of the other SS agents reacting similarly?

Is there some particular aspect of human reactions to loud noises  that explains this inconsistency?

Like maybe there were already some motorcycle backfires that had occurred during the limo trek  up Houston st, and during the turn on Elm st.that desensitized the SS agents such that they did not recognize the 1st loud Z140 rifle shot from TSBD.

A gouge was found on the manhole cover on the east side of Elm street and some uprooted grass beside it. And there is a photo of a guy sticking his hand down to check that piece of grass. ( Not sure if he found anything or not).

Where the JFK  limo is at At Z140, the manhole cover is farther down elm st some distance ahead of the JFK limo.

So coincidentally, Virgie Rachley is a witness who described seeming a ricochet ahead of the JFK limo which she thought was possibly the 1st shot.

Combine this with the  idea that the 1st shot from TSBD  was an accidental firing of the rifle by the shooter AS he leaned over from his seated position and had just rested  his rifle on the stacked boxes. This would  explain missing the limo.

So this possible scenario would make sense as a 1st shot  accidental discharge occurring at Z140 because it’s plausible that the shooter would have tried  to make a closer shot before the tree foliage became  a temporary LOS obstacle.

It’s more plausible an explanation for the shooter missing the entire limo than that his scope was badly misaligned. In fact, since the scope on this MC rifle was mounted to the left side of the barrel, then even if the scope reticle had lost its zero or was drifting, its unlikely that the barrel would have been pointed so far left that the bullet would have missed the entire limo. Especially since JFK was seated on the right side of the limo.

So the next question is,why  if Rosemary Willis heard a Z140 did it take her until Z190 to start reacting by slowing her running and finally stopping about Z200? That would be approx 60 frames/18.5 frames/sec) = approx 3 secs after hearing a loud shot at Z 140.

This again returns to the ? Of how  people  react to loud noises and if some had  become desensitized to the motorcycle backfires while others had not. I’m sure there are research papers on the subject.

The other problem of Betzner not hearing a shot until after he took his camera shot at Z186? Possibly there is another human brain thing about some people so fixated on a particular task as to exclude or minimize their hearing/ seeing while they are engaged in accomplishing their task.