"The power went out in the TSBD" factoid

[Lance Payette]

This is the sort of stuff that drives me nuts. The CT factoid that the power in the TSBD mysteriously went out just before the shots were fired has been repeated at the Other Forum as recently as today (by your CT hero and mine, David Josephs).

The source, of course, is Geneva Hine. Josephs interprets her WC testimony as referring to a "power outage" in the TSBD. Let’s look at what she actually said. It’s pretty clear, yet these factoids persist like cockroaches.

Hine told the other women in her office that she would stay behind and answer the telephone so they could go outside and watch the motorcade:

“You see, I had seen him [JFK] on two different occasions and I had been very close to him and so they were lamenting that they couldn’t go out so I spoke up and said ’I will be glad to answer the telephone so you girls may go out and see the motorcade’ and I had previously answered the telephone when we were in the other building before we moved in this building, so they were delighted and I thought nothing about it.”

She then explained that there was no switchboard but rather a telephone with a bank of lights for multiple lines. When Otis Williams went out to watch the motorcade, she was left alone and had to shift to another desk to answer the phone. The lights on the phone all went out “because no one was calling,” and she then felt it was safe to go over to the window and watch:

Mr. BALL. Did you have to change your desk over to another desk?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; to the middle desk on the front row.
Mr. BALL. Was there a switchboard?
Miss HINE. No, sir; we have a telephone with three incoming lines, then we have the warehouse line and we have an intercom system.
Mr. BALL. You don’t have a switchboard?
Miss HINE. Not now; we did in the other building.
Mr. BALL. Were you alone then at this time?
Miss HINE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you stay at your desk?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir. I was alone until the lights all went out and the phones became dead because the motorcade was coming near us and no one was calling so I got up and thought I could see it from the east window in our office.
Mr. BALL. Did you go to the window?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.

Business phones with multiple lines had been in use since the 1950s. They did not go “dead” when the power went out because the central office of the phone company had its own backup power. Hine simply meant there were no incoming calls and she didn’t think there would be any during the motorcade, so she walked over to the window.

If that isn’t sufficient for you, immediately following the shooting Hine frantically banged on the door of Southwestern Publishing but the woman in that office wouldn’t answer because she was talking on the telephone:

Miss HINE. And there was a girl in there talking on the telephone and I could hear her but she didn’t answer the door.

Moreover, the lights on the phone in her own office then immediately started blinking due to a high volume of incoming calls:

Miss HINE. Yes; and I went straight up to the desk because the telephones were beginning to wink; outside calls were beginning to come in.
Mr. BALL. Did they come in rapidly?
Miss HINE. They did come in rapidly.

Have I killed this cockroach once and for all? Noooooo ...

[Charles Collins]

This is the sort of stuff that drives me nuts. The CT factoid that the power in the TSBD mysteriously went out just before the shots were fired has been repeated at the Other Forum as recently as today (by your CT hero and mine, David Josephs).

The source, of course, is Geneva Hine. Josephs interprets her WC testimony as referring to a "power outage" in the TSBD. Let’s look at what she actually said. It’s pretty clear, yet these factoids persist like cockroaches.

Hine told the other women in her office that she would stay behind and answer the telephone so they could go outside and watch the motorcade:

“You see, I had seen him [JFK] on two different occasions and I had been very close to him and so they were lamenting that they couldn’t go out so I spoke up and said ’I will be glad to answer the telephone so you girls may go out and see the motorcade’ and I had previously answered the telephone when we were in the other building before we moved in this building, so they were delighted and I thought nothing about it.”

She then explained that there was no switchboard but rather a telephone with a bank of lights for multiple lines. When Otis Williams went out to watch the motorcade, she was left alone and had to shift to another desk to answer the phone. The lights on the phone all went out “because no one was calling,” and she then felt it was safe to go over to the window and watch:

Mr. BALL. Did you have to change your desk over to another desk?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir; to the middle desk on the front row.
Mr. BALL. Was there a switchboard?
Miss HINE. No, sir; we have a telephone with three incoming lines, then we have the warehouse line and we have an intercom system.
Mr. BALL. You don’t have a switchboard?
Miss HINE. Not now; we did in the other building.
Mr. BALL. Were you alone then at this time?
Miss HINE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you stay at your desk?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir. I was alone until the lights all went out and the phones became dead because the motorcade was coming near us and no one was calling so I got up and thought I could see it from the east window in our office.
Mr. BALL. Did you go to the window?
Miss HINE. Yes, sir.

Business phones with multiple lines had been in use since the 1950s. They did not go “dead” when the power went out because the central office of the phone company had its own backup power. Hine simply meant there were no incoming calls and she didn’t think there would be any during the motorcade, so she walked over to the window.

If that isn’t sufficient for you, immediately following the shooting Hine frantically banged on the door of Southwestern Publishing but the woman in that office wouldn’t answer because she was talking on the telephone:

Miss HINE. And there was a girl in there talking on the telephone and I could hear her but she didn’t answer the door.

Moreover, the lights on the phone in her own office then immediately started blinking due to a high volume of incoming calls:

Miss HINE. Yes; and I went straight up to the desk because the telephones were beginning to wink; outside calls were beginning to come in.
Mr. BALL. Did they come in rapidly?
Miss HINE. They did come in rapidly.

Have I killed this cockroach once and for all? Noooooo ...

Your interpretation is correct in my book Lance. I also have an opinion about what Geneva Hine said regarding the first shot she heard. This is paraphrasing her testimony, but she said the first shot happened immediately after the limo disappeared from her view from the east window and while she was starting to look at the next vehicle in the motorcade. I believe she was referring to the Vice President’s vehicle. Her description suggests an early shot (that missed).

[Benjamin Cole]

Business phones with multiple lines had been in use since the 1950s. They did not go “dead” when the power went out because the central office of the phone company had its own backup power. --LP

I think this is correct. The phone companies did have their own power systems. Not sure if in-office multiple lines needed house current or not. By the 1980s, I worked in an office in which the phone system had it own power, but the in-office multiple-line set-up had its own power as well.

I suspect the old rotary-dial phones with the lights, as you have pictured, just used phone company power.

I think there has been some talk about elevators and the TSBD power also.

Obviously, former CIA Director Dulles, and the Council of Foreign Relations, Brown Brothers Harriman and the military-industrial complex sabotaged the TSBD power system.

[Michael T. Griffith]

We know that the power to the east and west passenger elevators in the building was cut soon after the shooting.

Victoria Adams, who tried to use the west passenger elevator but found that its power had been cut off:

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?

Miss ADAMS - Following that, I pushed the button for the
passenger elevator, but the power had been cut off on the
elevator, so I took the stairs to the second floor. (6 H 391)

Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney, who tried to use the east passenger elevator but had to get off on the second floor because the elevator's power was suddenly cut off:

It was a push button affair the best I can remember, got hold
of the controls and it worked. We started up and got to the second.
I was going to let them off and go on up. And when we got there,
the power undoubtedly cut off, because we had no more power on
the elevator. (3 H 284)

This is why Mooney was heading up the stairs from the second floor when he encountered two well-dressed men coming down the stairs. The men were dressed nicely enough that he assumed they were plainclothes law officers, even though he didn't recognize either of them.

Humm, now who could these two well-dressed men have been? Why were they on an upper floor until at least 12:45?

 

[Tim Nickerson]

We know that the power to the east and west passenger elevators in the building was cut soon after the shooting.

Victoria Adams, who tried to use the west passenger elevator but found that its power had been cut off:

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?

Miss ADAMS - Following that, I pushed the button for the
passenger elevator, but the power had been cut off on the
elevator, so I took the stairs to the second floor. (6 H 391)

Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney, who tried to use the east passenger elevator but had to get off on the second floor because the elevator's power was suddenly cut off:

It was a push button affair the best I can remember, got hold
of the controls and it worked. We started up and got to the second.
I was going to let them off and go on up. And when we got there,
the power undoubtedly cut off, because we had no more power on
the elevator. (3 H 284)

This is why Mooney was heading up the stairs from the second floor when he encountered two well-dressed men coming down the stairs. The men were dressed nicely enough that he assumed they were plainclothes law officers, even though he didn't recognize either of them.

Humm, now who could these two well-dressed men have been? Why were they on an upper floor until at least 12:45?

Mr. TRULY. Well, I started around towards the stairway, and then I noted that this east elevator was there. So I told the officer, "Come on, here is an elevator," and then we ran down to the east side, and got on the east elevator.
Mr. BELIN. Could you put the letter "T" at the end of that line, please?
All right.
Now, where did you go with the east elevator, to what floor?
Mr. TRULY. We rode the east elevator to the seventh floor.

[Benjamin Cole]

MTG:

OK, so how long do you wait for an elevator before determining the power had been cut off?

---30---

Victoria Adams, who tried to use the west passenger elevator but found that its power had been cut off:

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?

Miss ADAMS - Following that, I pushed the button for the
passenger elevator, but the power had been cut off on the
elevator, so I took the stairs to the second floor. (6 H 391)

---30---

So Ms. Adams lingered at the Elm St window for how long, and then tried the elevator for how long....

Seems like LHO could have just left before her...

[Tim Nickerson]

MTG:

OK, so how long do you wait for an elevator before determining the power had been cut off?

---30---

Victoria Adams, who tried to use the west passenger elevator but found that its power had been cut off:

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?

Miss ADAMS - Following that, I pushed the button for the
passenger elevator, but the power had been cut off on the
elevator, so I took the stairs to the second floor. (6 H 391)

---30---

So Ms. Adams lingered at the Elm St window for how long, and then tried the elevator for how long....

Seems like LHO could have just left before her...

Vicki Adams was attempting to use the elevator after she re-entered the building.

I suspect that it was a two door elevator, just like the freight elevators, and she had failed to fully close one of the doors. If the power was out, it would have been very dark in that elevator.

[Lance Payette]

I don't want anyone to think I'm under the illusion that my original post here is saying anything clever or breaking new ground. CTer Ron Ecker said basically the same thing at the Ed Forum 20 years ago, and I'm sure the same observations were made long before that and many times after. What Geneva Hine was talking about is entirely obvious.

The real point is that a Big League CTer like David Josephs, who seemingly lives and breathes the JFKA and postures himself as a deeply serious researcher, is STILL spouting this nonsense. He actually called it - just yesterday - a "crucial" point. (One of his sycophants urged him to write THE definitive book on the JFKA because "You da man, David!!!")

Virtually ALL of these CT gurus are hucksters. They are wedded to their theories like televangelists and peddling their wares with little regard for accuracy or truth. It's as impossible to engage in rational debate with them as it is with a cult leader and his flock. You can point out the occasional screaming, flaming, blatant factoid that is still being peddled and hope a light bulb will perhaps finally go off in some peoples' heads - but it seemingly never does.

Anyway, that was the point - not that Geneva was talking about her telephone but that obvious nonsense is still being spewed by people like David Josephs. There is simply and undeniably something wrong with the thought processes of these people.