Author Topic: How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?  (Read 160318 times)

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Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?
« Reply #315 on: July 13, 2026, 11:33:35 PM »

I'm wondering what part of the man having Shelley's white shirt collar, black jacket, hair doo, and body shape you don't understand?...Or the other man having Lovelady's plaid pattern and bald spot...Or the pair being exactly where Lovelady & Shelley would be according to the other testimonies...Or Shelley pulling up and talking to Hicks as she ran by...The pair fast-walking up the extension just so happens to be where Lovelady & Shelley would be if they were going up the extension according to the witnessing...I consider doubting this to be research-damaging silly-ness...



When I first analyzed this with Thomas Graves 8 years ago the image I saw looked different and you could clearly see Molina's signature bald pate...Obviously the 6th Floor Museum's 1st generation copy should provide the best imagery once enhanced...Do you realize that copy has not been digitally enhanced?...It should yield impressive results...The JFK research community is uncredibly against obtaining that copy without any legitimate excuse...

Frazier was there, witnessed it, and said Lovelady & Shelley spoke to Calvery at the base of the steps...The Couch/Darnell clip backs this by showing that Calvery and Lovelady & Shelley are all at the correct distances for that meeting to have happened...There are strange characters in the research community who just like to cause trouble and muddy the waters...




If you time going up the extension and around the west side of the Depository, Lovelady & Shelley had too much distance to travel to get back in to the 1st Floor in time to meet Adams & Styles...Adams and Styles had a shorter route and most-likely got out the rear exit before Lovelady & Shelley got back in...

But, if you think about it, by conceding this you are admitting the men going up the extension are indeed Lovelady & Shelley (touche)...

You've been asked a very simple question - other than "it looks like that to me", what evidence do you have that the two men on the extension are Shelley and Lovelady?
It's a simple question.
What evidence do you have?

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?
« Reply #316 on: July 14, 2026, 12:15:44 AM »
Bumped for newcomers like Brian

This is the 'Lovelady' image Bart Kamp produced from a large print obtained for him from the collection of Richard Sprague.



This image seems to include an incredible amount of detail, particularly on the shirt of 'Lovelady'.
However, the print from which Kamp got this 'Lovelady' image is of such poor quality that is very hard to understand how this amount of detail could be present when far superior pictures show no such detail.
Kamp alludes to this contradiction in his description of how he came across the Sprague print:

"This...Scan of a Couch film still at first looks very harsh and doesn’t overall have much information, but it does happen to show a lot regarding our illustrious duo. This print comes from the Richard E. Sprague Collection from the National Archives."

How can it be that the Sprague print "doesn't overall have much information", yet the part of it showing Lovelady's shirt does?

This is a copy of the Sprague print that Kamp used to get his image of Lovelady from:



Look at the poor quality of this image in general. How washed out it is and how there is a lack of fine detail. As Kamp points out, there is not much overall information in this print, as it is of such poor quality.
In contrast, here is an image from the Couch footage taken from "Four Days In November":



Look at how superior this image is in quality, look at how much more detail is present in this image, how much more information is present overall.
One would have thought that the more detailed picture of 'Lovelady' would come from this superior image.
BUT THIS IS NOT THE CASE.
The picture of 'Lovelady' that has the very fine detail (of the distinctive check pattern of his shirt) comes from the inferior image.
How can that be?

This is a crop of 'Lovelady' from the Sprague print and 4 Days.



How was Kamp able to obtain such fine detail from the inferior Sprague print when no such detail is present in the far superior copy from 4 Days?

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?
« Reply #317 on: July 14, 2026, 12:38:47 AM »
Which is the superior image?
Which contains the more detail?

[u
« Last Edit: July 14, 2026, 12:40:00 AM by Dan O'meara »

Online Royell Storing

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Re: How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?
« Reply #318 on: July 14, 2026, 04:31:03 AM »
Which is the superior image?
Which contains the more detail?



 Also, Shelley and Lovelady are standing on the TSBD front steps at this same point in time. They can Not be in 2 places at the same time. The above is not Shelley and Lovelady

Online Brian Doyle

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How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?
« Reply #319 on: July 14, 2026, 02:42:16 PM »

I don't think Dan is dealing in correct terms here...Dan is calling the "Four Days In November" copy the superior copy when it clearly is not...The 'Four Days In November' copy was probably transferred to video at some point and obviously suffered serious degrading in quality, yet somehow Dan gets that this obviously highly-degraded copy is "superior"...I would guess that the Sprague Collection copy is washed out by high end brightness and contrast because the photo enhancement technology of the time showed detail the best at that setting...Dan has it backwards and, although the Sprague copy is washed out badly at one level, it is actually the better copy for identifying detail, which is why it shows the finer features on Shelley and Lovelady better...

And since we now have a valid technical explanation for what we are seeing in these two examples of Couch therefore Dan has come up short in explaining exactly what problem he is having understanding that Shelley's white shirt collar and black jacket...His Duck's Bahookie hair doo and body shape...His pulling up to talk to Hicks as she ran by...As well as Lovelady's clearly-seen plaid pattern and bald spot are all freely visible in the Sprague copy and therefore confirm the pair are Lovelady & Shelley exactly where they were supposed to be fast-walking up the extension...Dan is ignoring that those two are exactly where they are supposed to be according to testimony after leaving the steps...

Online Royell Storing

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Re: How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?
« Reply #320 on: July 14, 2026, 03:47:53 PM »
I don't think Dan is dealing in correct terms here...Dan is calling the "Four Days In November" copy the superior copy when it clearly is not...The 'Four Days In November' copy was probably transferred to video at some point and obviously suffered serious degrading in quality, yet somehow Dan gets that this obviously highly-degraded copy is "superior"...I would guess that the Sprague Collection copy is washed out by high end brightness and contrast because the photo enhancement technology of the time showed detail the best at that setting...Dan has it backwards and, although the Sprague copy is washed out badly at one level, it is actually the better copy for identifying detail, which is why it shows the finer features on Shelley and Lovelady better...

And since we now have a valid technical explanation for what we are seeing in these two examples of Couch therefore Dan has come up short in explaining exactly what problem he is having understanding that Shelley's white shirt collar and black jacket...His Duck's Bahookie hair doo and body shape...His pulling up to talk to Hicks as she ran by...As well as Lovelady's clearly-seen plaid pattern and bald spot are all freely visible in the Sprague copy and therefore confirm the pair are Lovelady & Shelley exactly where they were supposed to be fast-walking up the extension...Dan is ignoring that those two are exactly where they are supposed to be according to testimony after leaving the steps...

   The moment that you use "PROBABLY", gets you an immediate DQ. That don't cut it around here.

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?
« Reply #321 on: July 14, 2026, 10:48:32 PM »
I don't think Dan is dealing in correct terms here...Dan is calling the "Four Days In November" copy the superior copy when it clearly is not...The 'Four Days In November' copy was probably transferred to video at some point and obviously suffered serious degrading in quality, yet somehow Dan gets that this obviously highly-degraded copy is "superior"...I would guess that the Sprague Collection copy is washed out by high end brightness and contrast because the photo enhancement technology of the time showed detail the best at that setting...Dan has it backwards and, although the Sprague copy is washed out badly at one level, it is actually the better copy for identifying detail, which is why it shows the finer features on Shelley and Lovelady better...

And since we now have a valid technical explanation for what we are seeing in these two examples of Couch therefore Dan has come up short in explaining exactly what problem he is having understanding that Shelley's white shirt collar and black jacket...His Duck's Bahookie hair doo and body shape...His pulling up to talk to Hicks as she ran by...As well as Lovelady's clearly-seen plaid pattern and bald spot are all freely visible in the Sprague copy and therefore confirm the pair are Lovelady & Shelley exactly where they were supposed to be fast-walking up the extension...Dan is ignoring that those two are exactly where they are supposed to be according to testimony after leaving the steps...

Dan is ignoring that those two are exactly where they are supposed to be according to testimony after leaving the steps...

There's no point getting bogged down with everything that is wrong with this post but this last observation needs addressing.
Apparently it's me, ands not Brian, who is ignoring the WC testimony of Shelley and Lovelady.
Let's start with the fact that BOTH MEN testify that they didn't leave the steps for at least three minutes!!
How can they be on the extension seconds after the shooting??
I would really like to hear what Brian is going to make up off the top of his head to account for this.

BOTH MEN testify that, after three minutes, Gloria comes up to the steps, tells them about the shooting after which both of them make their way across the Elm Street extension to the "little, old island" (both men use exactly the same phrase to describe the concrete spur separating the Elm Streets), where they stopped "for a minute".

So, the image of the two men walking down the extension is taken 20 - 25 seconds after the shooting.
In this short span of time, according to Brian, Gloria has made her way back to the TSBD steps, told everyone about the shooting, both men have made their way across to the little old island, hung around there for a while, then made it half way down the extension before being caught on film.
Let's do him a favour and ignore the three minutes it takes Gloria to reach the steps and the time spent on the little, old island.
Even if we ignore all the testimony that Brian seems so willing to do, is it still physically possible for the two men to be so far down the extension, after the sequence of events described, in such a short span of time?
Let's be ultra kind to Brian and make it like some mad kind of tag race  being run at top speed:
1] Gloria sprints full tilt and makes it back to the steps within 15 seconds
2] She spits out a rapid-fire account of the shooting in 5 seconds
3] Shelley and Lovelady sprint across to the little old island - 3 seconds.
4] They stay there for 5 seconds
5] They then sprint to their positions on the Elm Street extension - another 3 seconds.

They still don't make it in time.
Even if we follow Brian's lead and ignore nearly every statement they made in their WC testimonies, Shelley and Lovelady still don't make it.

The reason for this is obvious - it's not Shelley and Lovelady on the Elm Street extension.
In reality, what happens is this
Shelley and Lovelady are on the steps at the time of the shooting.
Immediately after the shots Shelley runs out to the concrete spur where he encounters a distraught Gloria Calvery running the other way.
Both return to the front steps where Gloria tells everyone there about the shooting after which both Shelley and Lovelady make their way into the building through the front door.

Gloria reaches the steps in a matter seconds - not 3 minutes.
Both men do not then go across to the little, old island.
Both men do not wander along the extension.
Both men do not hang around the railroad yards.
Both men do not enter the building through the west door.
These are all lies told to hide their actual movements after the shooting.

Both men immediately enter the building and make their way towards the back of the first floor where they are seen by Vickie Adams about 60 seconds after the shooting.
Seconds later Baker and Truly arrive at the elevators where Baker notices two white men just hanging around. Clearly this is Shelley and Lovelady.



The image above shows the moment Gloria has reached the steps and is telling everyone about the shooting.
The man in front of her is Billy Lovelady.
Shelley, wearing his baggy black suit, is near the bottom of the steps after returning from the concrete spur.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2026, 10:50:32 PM by Dan O'meara »