JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Shelley intercepted Calvery at the "island" about 10 seconds after final shot
Dan O'meara:
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on September 14, 2025, 10:46:55 AM ---During the motorcade, large-and-tall, dark-blue-blouse-wearing / dark-blue-headscarf-wearing / plaid-skirt-wearing Gloria Calvery was standing shoulder-to-shoulder with her three headscarf-wearing South-West Publishing Company colleagues (from left to right in Zapruder: Karen Westbrook, Karan Hicks, Carol Reed, Gloria Calvery) only about 40 yards from the "island" that's across the street from the TSBD's front steps.
If you need "proof" of this, go to the so-called JFK Assassination Debate - Education Forum website and read the articles that I and/or Sandy Larsen posted on Calvery and on self-described American Indian Stella Mae Jacob (whom certain JFKA heavyweights confused with Calvery in the Zapruder film eons ago.)
We can see Calvery and her dressed-all-in-white (including white headscarf) colleague, Hicks, on the steps in the Couch-Darnell clip 25-30 seconds after the final shot. We can even see a part of Calvery's plaid shirt in one or two of the frames.
In his 11/22/63 affidavit to the Dallas County Sheriff’s Department (24H226), William Shelley said, “The President’s car was about halfway from Houston Street to the Triple Underpass when I heard what sounded like three shots. I couldn’t tell where they came from. I ran across the street to the corner of the park [i.e., the "island"] and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. The girl’s name is Gloria Calvery,” and in his 4/7/64 Warren Commission testimony (6H327), Shelley said, "Gloria Calvery from South-Western Publishing Company ran back up there crying and said, "The President has been shot," and Billy Lovelady and myself took off."
In his 4/7/64 Warren Commission testimony (6H336), Billy Lovelady said, "It didn't occur to me at first what had happened until this Gloria came running up to us and told us the President had been shot."
Interestingly, in the same Couch-Darnell clip we can see DPD motorcycle officer Marion Baker running towards the TSBD steps, Shelley and Lovelady walking/running down Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard / parking lot, and Calvery's other colleague, black-skirt-and-white-blouse-wearing Carol Reed, running past Shelley and Lovelady while bookin' it to the TSBD.
(Pat Speer speculates that Lovelady and Shelley sped up right after Reed passed them because she confirmed to them that JFK had been shot.)
Question:
Were Calvery and Hicks able to run to the "island" quickly enough to not only inform Shelley (and Lovelady?) there that JFK had been shot, but to give them 15-20 seconds to get as far down Elm Street Extension as we see them in Couch-Darnell?
My answer:
Having run the 40-yard dash in 4.8 seconds in high school (not bad for a big clodhopper like me), I say "Yes, they were."
Bottom line:
If Vicki Adams and /or Sandra Styles saw Shelley and /or Lovelady on the TSBD's first floor when they arrived there from the fourth floor, it must have been after Shelley and Lovelady had returned to the TSBD from the railway yard / parking lot (where they said they'd stayed for a minute-and-a-half, IIRC).
--- End quote ---
Just to inject a bit of honesty into this thread.
Shelley's affidavit and his WC testimony completely contradict each other.
The sequence of events described in his affidavit is as follows:
1] On front steps when he hears shots
2] Heads to the concrete spur (on his own) where he meets Gloria.
3] Returns to the TSBD
4] Re-enters the building
The sequence of events described in his WC testimony is as follows:
1] On front steps when he hears shots
2] Waits on steps for about 3 minutes before Gloria arrives at steps
3] Both he and Lovelady then head over to the concrete spur.
4] He turns and sees Baker and Truly still outside the building.
5] Heads down Elm Street extension to the railroad yard, hangs around there for a while, re-enters building through west door (none of which is mentioned in his affidavit).
The main problem for young Thomas is Lovelady.
In his WC testimony Lovelady heads across to the spur AFTER interacting with Gloria on the steps (in his affidavit he never even leaves the steps before re-entering the building).
It is impossible for the two figures on Elm Street to be Shelley and Lovelady if this is the case.
There is simply no time as Gloria had just arrived at the steps in Darnell.
There is no way around this for young Thomas.
However, if we accept the affidavits of Shelley and Lovelady, and that Lovelady was still on the steps when Gloria came up and told him about the shooting, it is clear that Darnell is showing the moment Gloria arrives at the steps. The man she is talking to on the steps is Lovelady (who is stood in exactly the same position on the steps he was as the motorcade passed by).
There is nothing contradicting this identification.
Dan O'meara:
Mr. BALL. After you heard these noises you said sounded like firecrackers this
girl came up and said the President was shot?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. You were still standing there?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. There was still some time lapse from the time you heard the noise
like a firecracker and she came up?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Then you went out across Elm?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, to the divider.
Mr. BALL. Between the two Elm Streets?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. The one street dead ends and the other street that goes on down
under the viaduct?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you run out to the point or walk out?
Mr. SHELLEY. I believe we trotted out there.
Mr. BALL. Did you stay very long?
Mr. SHELLEY. Oh, it wasn’t very long.
Mr. BALL. How long?
Mr. SHELLEY. Maybe a minute or two.
Shelley was still stood on the steps when Gloria came up (about 3 minutes after the shooting).
After Gloria came to the steps he went to the spur.
He stayed there maybe a minute or two.
The men on Elm cannot be Shelley and Lovelady. They are already making their way down Elm only 25 seconds after the shooting.
There is no time for the 3 minute wait.
No time for Gloria to finish telling them about the shooting.
No time to wait on the island for a minute or two.
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on September 14, 2025, 11:01:46 PM ---Just to inject a bit of honesty into this thread.
Shelley's affidavit and his WC testimony completely contradict each other.
The sequence of events described in his affidavit is as follows:
1] On front steps when he hears shots
2] Heads to the concrete spur (on his own) where he meets Gloria.
3] Returns to the TSBD
4] Re-enters the building
The sequence of events described in his WC testimony is as follows:
1] On front steps when he hears shots
2] Waits on steps for about 3 minutes before Gloria arrives at steps
3] Both he and Lovelady then head over to the concrete spur.
4] He turns and sees Baker and Truly still outside the building.
5] Heads down Elm Street extension to the railroad yard, hangs around there for a while, re-enters building through west door (none of which is mentioned in his affidavit).
The main problem for young Thomas is Lovelady.
In his WC testimony Lovelady heads across to the spur AFTER interacting with Gloria on the steps (in his affidavit he never even leaves the steps before re-entering the building).
It is impossible for the two figures on Elm Street to be Shelley and Lovelady if this is the case.
There is simply no time as Gloria had just arrived at the steps in Darnell.
There is no way around this for young Thomas.
However, if we accept the affidavits of Shelley and Lovelady, and that Lovelady was still on the steps when Gloria came up and told him about the shooting, it is clear that Darnell is showing the moment Gloria arrives at the steps. The man she is talking to on the steps is Lovelady (who is stood in exactly the same position on the steps he was as the motorcade passed by).
There is nothing contradicting this identification.
--- End quote ---
Big/tall, 20-year-old, dark-blue-skirt-wearing / dark-blue-headscarf-wearing / lighter-colored-plaid-skirt-wearing Gloria Calvery and her three headscarf-wearing work colleagues were standing shoulder-to-shoulder about 40 yards from the "island" during the motorcade.
Calvery can be seen standing on or going up the TSBD steps next to her dressed-in-all-white colleague, Karan Hicks, 25-30 seconds after the final shot in the Couch-Darnell clip.
A guy who looks like William Shelley and a guy who looks like Billy Lovelady can be seen walking/running down Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard / parking lot 25-30 seconds after the final shot in the Couch-Darnell clip.
The Shelley figure is slender, wearing a suit, and has a "pompadour" hair style. The Lovelady figure has a "male pattern" bald spot and is wearing a dark-colored long-sleeve shirt that has bold black and white horizontal and vertical lines.
Calvery's and Hicks' colleague, Carol Reed (who is wearing a black skirt, a white blouse, and a red headscarf in the Zapruder film, and who has told researcher Brian Doyle that she remembers running after the assassination), can be seen running past the Shelley and Lovelady figures, on her way to the TSBD 25-30 seconds after the final shot in the Couch-Darnell clip.
Police officer Marion Baker can be seen running towards the TSBD front steps, and Roy Truly, standing in front of the steps, can be seen watching Baker run past him 25-30 seconds after the final shot in the Couch-Darnell clip.
Shelley and Lovelady, due to poor memories and/or for sinister reasons, were "all over the place" (pardon the pun) in their affidavits and testimonies, but if we combine what we see in Couch-Darnell with certain statements in their affidavits and testimonies, we can create a plausible narrative which says:
Shelley (and Lovelady?) intercepted a crying Calvery and Hicks at the "island" about ten seconds after the final shot, Calvery (and Hicks?) told Shelley (and Lovelady?) there that JFK had been shot, Shelley and Lovelady started walking towards the railway yard / parking lot, Calvery and Hicks continued on their way to the TSBD steps (where Buell Wesley Frazier said he heard her bellow out that JFK had been shot), Shelley and Lovelady sped up when Carol Reed ran past them and verbally confirmed that JFK had been shot, and Shelley and Lovelady, after staying at the railway yard / parking lot for a minute or so, came back to the TSBD and entered it through a rear door, near which rear door just-arrived-from-the-fourth-floor Vicki Adams and/or Sandra Styles may (or may not) have seen Shelley and/or Lovelady on the first floor in the rear part of the building.
. . . . . . .
Caveat:
I don't subscribe to the "Prayer Man" theory, but Greg Parker's website has some good images of Lovelady and Shelley showing how they closely resemble the Shelley and Lovelady figures who are walking/running towards the railway yard / parking lot 25-30 seconds after the final shot in Couch-Darnell.
http://www.prayer-man.com/tsbd/billy-nolan-lovelady/
Dan O'meara:
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on Today at 12:28:55 AM ---Big/tall, 19-year-old, dark-blue-skirt-wearing / dark-blue-headscarf-wearing / lighter-colored-plaid-skirt-wearing Gloria Calvery and her three headscarf-wearing work colleagues were standing shoulder-to-shoulder only about 40 yards from the "island" during the motorcade.
She's standing on or going up the TSBD steps next to her dressed-in-all-white colleague, Karan Hicks, 25-30 seconds after the final shot in the Couch-Darnell clip.
A guy who looks like William Shelley and a guy who looks like Billy Lovelady can be seen walking/running down Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard / parking lot 25-30 seconds after the final shot in the Couch-Darnell clip.
The Shelley figure is slender, wearing a suit, and has a "pompadour" hair style. The Lovelady figure has a "male pattern" bald spot and is wearing a dark-colored long-sleeve shirt that has bold black and white horizontal and vertical lines.
Calvery's and Hicks' colleague, Carol Reed (who is wearing a black skirt, a white blouse, and a red headscarf in the Zapruder film, and who has told researcher Brian Doyle that she remembers running after the assassination), can be seen running past the Shelley and Lovelady figures, on her way to the TSBD 25-30 seconds after the final shot in the Couch-Darnell clip.
Police officer Marion Baker can be seen running towards the TSBD front steps, and Roy Truly, standing in front of the steps, can be seen watching Baker run past him 25-30 seconds after the final shot in the Couch-Darnell clip.
Shelley and Lovelady, due to poor memories and/or for sinister reasons, were "all over the place" (pardon the pun) in their affidavits and testimonies, but if we combine what we see in Couch-Darnell with certain statements in their affidavits and testimonies, we can create a plausible narrative which says:
Shelley (and Lovelady?) intercepted a crying Calvery and Hicks at the "island" about ten seconds after the final shot, Calvery (and Hicks?) told Shelley (and Lovelady?) there that JFK had been shot, Shelley and Lovelady started walking towards the railway yard / parking lot, Calvery and Hicks continued on their way to the TSBD steps, Shelley and Lovelady sped up when Carol Reed ran past them and verbally confirmed that JFK had been shot, and Shelley and Lovelady, after staying at the railway yard / parking lot for a minute or so, came back to the TSBD and entered it through a rear door, near which just-arrived-from-the-fourth-floor Vicki Adams and/or Sandra Styles may (or may not) have seen Shelley and/or Lovelady on the first floor in the rear part of the building.
--- End quote ---
Wow.
So now you have Lovelady racing out to the "island" where he meets Calvery who tells him about the shooting at the island.
Don't you have any qualms about making this stuff up when you know Lovelady stated he was still on the steps when Gloria came running up.
How do you explain Shelley saying he met Gloria at the "island" in his affidavit but that he stayed on the steps after the shooting until Gloria arrived there in his WC testimony.
How do you explain the 3 minute lie both men told about how long it took Gloria to get there.
How do you explain that Shelley stated they spent a minute or two on the "island" but is seen walking up Elm Street seconds after the shooting?
How do you explain that Shelley was on the "island"when he saw Baker at the bottom of the steps but in Darnell "Shelley" is walking down Elm with his back to Baker arriving at the steps.
To be honest, now you've reached the stage where you're knowingly fabricating events, I suppose rational debate has left the building.
Do you remember when you used to be a decent researcher?
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on Today at 12:54:17 AM ---So, now you have Lovelady racing out to the "island" where he meets Calvery, who tells him about the shooting at the island.
--- End quote ---
Why the hyperbole, Gaslighter Supreme?
I put a question mark after Lovelady's name.
Perhaps you didn't notice.
For all I know, best-man Shelley "raced out to the 'island'" all by him widdle self to intercept Calvery and Hicks and find out why they were running and crying. If that was the case, then Shelley probably signaled (by waving his arm, pointing, whistling loudly, etc.) to Lovelady (scoping things out from your beloved steps) to join him on his walk to the railway yard / parking lot to check things out.
--- Quote ---Don't you have any qualms about making this stuff up when you know Lovelady stated he was still on the steps when Gloria came running up.
--- End quote ---
I didn't make anything up, Danny Boy.
I extrapolated from what Shelley and Lovelady said in their various affidavits and testimonies to create a plausible narrative that jibes with Couch-Darnell and the timing elements of Mark Tyler's mostly-correct (e.g., Calvery's location during the motorcade and the fact that Baker started running towards the steps about 25 seconds after the final shot) synchronized animation of the motorcade.
https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html?fbclid=IwY2xjawK4zONleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFFODdsRHVIa2RSUGZJNllFAR6Zx-0JB5zBmwy-qakJKtfLfY5vcW9V2IqOrNXjP-oezkHhb-av38NlRUa-uA_aem_2d95NRPz2dpt6k_03l7iYg
Do you have a problem with that?
--- Quote ---How do you explain Shelley saying he met Gloria at the "island" in his affidavit but that he stayed on the steps after the shooting until Gloria arrived there in his WC testimony.
--- End quote ---
Beats the heck out of me.
The dude either had a really poor memory regarding chaotic and stressful situations he'd been in, or he was part of the evil, evil Deep State, I reckon.
What do you make of it?
--- Quote ---How do you explain the three-minute lie both men told about how long it took Gloria to get there?
--- End quote ---
See above.
--- Quote ---How do you explain that Shelley stated they spent a minute or two on the "island" but is seen walking up Elm Street seconds after the shooting?
--- End quote ---
Ditto.
--- Quote ---How do you explain that Shelley was on the "island" when he saw Baker at the bottom of the steps but in Darnell "Shelley" is walking down Elm with his back to Baker arriving at the steps?
--- End quote ---
Beats the heck out of me.
It really does.
--- Quote ---To be honest, now you've reached the stage where you're knowingly fabricating events, I suppose rational debate has left the building.
--- End quote ---
That's tantamount to calling me a liar.
Do you really want to call me a liar, Danny Boy?
--- Quote ---Do you remember when you used to be a decent researcher?
--- End quote ---
Do you mean when I used to be a tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theorist like you?
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