Shelley intercepted Calvery at the "island" about 10 seconds after final shot

[Tom Graves]

During the motorcade, large-and-tall, dark-blue-blouse-wearing / dark-blue-headscarf-wearing / plaid-skirt-wearing Gloria Calvery was standing shoulder-to-shoulder with her three headscarf-wearing South-West Publishing Company colleagues (from left to right in Zapruder: Karen Westbrook, Karan Hicks, Carol Reed, Gloria Calvery) only about 40 yards from the "island" that's across the street from the TSBD's front steps.

If you need "proof" of this, go to the so-called JFK Assassination Debate - Education Forum website and read the articles that I and/or Sandy Larsen posted on Calvery and on self-described American Indian Stella Mae Jacob (whom certain JFKA heavyweights confused with Calvery in the Zapruder film eons ago.) 

We can see Calvery and her dressed-all-in-white (including white headscarf) colleague, Hicks, on the steps in the Couch-Darnell clip 25-30 seconds after the final shot. We can even see a part of Calvery's plaid shirt in one or two of the frames.

In his 11/22/63 affidavit to the Dallas County Sheriff’s Department (24H226), William Shelley said, “The President’s car was about halfway from Houston Street to the Triple Underpass when I heard what sounded like three shots. I couldn’t tell where they came from. I ran across the street to the corner of the park [i.e., the "island"] and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. The girl’s name is Gloria Calvery,” and in his 4/7/64 Warren Commission testimony (6H327), Shelley said, "Gloria Calvery from South-Western Publishing Company ran back up there crying and said, "The President has been shot," and Billy Lovelady and myself took off."

In his 4/7/64 Warren Commission testimony (6H336), Billy Lovelady said, "It didn't occur to me at first what had happened until this Gloria came running up to us and told us the President had been shot."

Interestingly, in the same Couch-Darnell clip we can see DPD motorcycle officer Marion Baker running towards the TSBD steps, Shelley and Lovelady walking/running down Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard / parking lot, and Calvery's other colleague, black-skirt-and-white-blouse-wearing Carol Reed, running past Shelley and Lovelady while bookin' it to the TSBD.

(Pat Speer speculates that Lovelady and Shelley sped up right after Reed passed them because she confirmed to them that JFK had been shot.)

Question:

Were Calvery and Hicks able to run to the "island" quickly enough to not only inform Shelley (and Lovelady?) there that JFK had been shot, but to give them 15-20 seconds to get as far down Elm Street Extension as we see them in Couch-Darnell?

My answer:

Having run the 40-yard dash in 4.8 seconds in high school (not bad for a big clodhopper like me), I say "Yes, they were."

Bottom line:

If Vicki Adams and /or Sandra Styles saw Shelley and /or Lovelady on the TSBD's first floor when they arrived there from the fourth floor, it must have been after Shelley and Lovelady had returned to the TSBD from the railway yard / parking lot (where they said they'd stayed for a minute-and-a-half, IIRC).

[Royell Storing]

During the motorcade, large-and-tall, dark-blue-blouse-wearing / dark-blue-headscarf-wearing / plaid-skirt-wearing Gloria Calvery was standing shoulder-to-shoulder with her three headscarf-wearing South-West Publishing Company colleagues (from left to right in Zapruder: Karen Westbrook, Karan Hicks, Carol Reed, Gloria Calvery) only about 40 yards from the "island" that's across the street from the TSBD's front steps.

We can see Calvery and her dressed-all-in-white (including white headscarf) colleague, Hicks, on the steps in the Couch-Darnell clip 25-30 seconds after the final shot. We can even see a part of Calvery's plaid shirt in one or two of the frames.

In his 11/22/63 affidavit to the Dallas County Sheriff’s Department (24H226), William Shelley said, “The President’s car was about halfway from Houston Street to the Triple Underpass when I heard what sounded like three shots. I couldn’t tell where they came from. I ran across the street to the corner of the park [i.e., the "island"] and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. The girl’s name is Gloria Calvery,” and in his 4/7/64 Warren Commission testimony (6H327), Shelley said, "Gloria Calvery from South-Western Publishing Company ran back up there crying and said, "The President has been shot," and Billy Lovelady and myself took off."

In his 4/7/64 Warren Commission testimony (6H336), Billy Lovelady said, "It didn't occur to me at first what had happened until this Gloria came running up to us and told us the President had been shot."

Interestingly, in the same Couch-Darnell clip we can see DPD motorcycle officer Marion Baker running towards the TSBD steps, Shelley and Lovelady walking/running down Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard / parking lot, and Calvery's other colleague, black-skirt-and-white-blouse-wearing Carol Reed, running past Shelley and Lovelady while bookin' it to the TSBD.

(Pat Speer speculates that Lovelady and Shelley sped up right after Reed passed them because she confirmed to them that JFK had been shot.)

Question:

Were Calvery and Hicks able to reach the "island" quickly enough to tell Shelley (and Lovelady?) there that JFK had been shot and enable them to get as far as they did down Elm Street Extension in Couch-Darnell as they apparently did just 25-30 seconds after the final shot?

My answer:

Having run the 40-yard dash in 4.8 seconds in high school (not bad for a big clodhopper like me), I say "Yes, they were."

Bottom line:

If Vicki Adams and /or Sandra Styles saw Shelley and /or Lovelady on the TSBD's first floor when they got there from the fourth floor, it must have been after Shelley and Lovelady had returned to the TSBD from the railway yard / parking lot (where they said they'd stayed for a minute-and-a-half, IIRC).

     Who has positively ID'd those 2 individuals going down the Elm St Ext as being Shelley & Lovelady? Other than Yourself? Please use caution with cavalierly slapping ID's on figures in JFK Assassination Films/Photos. Or repeating said same. Currently, the ID of DPD Motorcycle Officer Haygood being the motorcycle cop we see walking across the train yard on the Darnell Film is precariously hanging by a thread. The release of the last half of the NBC "Original" Darnell Film should put that erroneous Haygood ID to rest. Maybe this is what is holding up the release of that last 1/2 ?     

[Tom Graves]

Who has positively ID'd those 2 individuals going down the Elm St Ext as being Shelley & Lovelady? Other than Yourself?

Dear Comrade Storing,

Do you think it's just a "photographic processing anomaly" that the bold horizontal and vertical stripes in the shirt "Lovelady" is wearing Couch-Darnell perfectly correlate with the stripes in the shirt we know he was wearing that day?

-- Tom

[Royell Storing]

Dear Comrade Storing,

Do you think that the fact that the bold horizontal and vertical stripes in the shirt that the "Lovelady" figure in Couch-Darnell is wearing perfectly match up with the bold horizontal and vertical stripes in the shirt we know he was wearing that day is just a "photographic processing anomaly" coincidence?

-- Tom

    Think about your description, "....bold horizontal and vertical stripes.......". What you are describing is a checker'd shirt. Do you believe that Lovelady was wearing a checker'd shirt? And you have yet to tell me specifically who has definitively ID'd those 2 individuals going down the Elm St Ext as being Shelley and Lovelady.     

[Tom Graves]

What you are describing is a checkered shirt. Do you believe that Lovelady was wearing a checkered shirt? 

Dear Comrade Storing,

When I hear the word "checkered," I think of the board that the game of checkers (and chess) is played on.

It has sixty-eight equal-sized, alternating (typically) red-and-black squares on it, meaning that each square is relatively small compared to the overall size of the board.

Do you think Lovelady was wearing a shirt with a pattern of smallish, equal-sized squares on 11/22/63?

Or maybe you think he was wearing the shirt with the broad red-and-white vertical stripes that he was wearing at home when an FBI agent visited him and took some photos of him?

Regardless, do you agree that a brutish-looking Lovelady was "captured" on film by Martin and Hughes as he was standing on the TSBD's steps several minutes after the assassination, jutting his jaw outward while exhaling cigarette smoke and waiting to get back into the building, and/or do you agree that Lovelady was "captured" on film as he was sitting in-or-near the police station's Homicide and Robbery Bureau when they walked Oswald past him on their way to an interrogation room?

If so, that's the "checkered" or "plaid" shirt I'm talking about.

You've seen the frames from Couch-Darnell that have been photographically processed (contrast-adjusted?) in such a way as to show the pattern of bold horizontal and vertical stripes in said shirt, haven't you?

-- Tom

[Dan O'meara]

During the motorcade, large-and-tall, dark-blue-blouse-wearing / dark-blue-headscarf-wearing / plaid-skirt-wearing Gloria Calvery was standing shoulder-to-shoulder with her three headscarf-wearing South-West Publishing Company colleagues (from left to right in Zapruder: Karen Westbrook, Karan Hicks, Carol Reed, Gloria Calvery) only about 40 yards from the "island" that's across the street from the TSBD's front steps.

If you need "proof" of this, go to the so-called JFK Assassination Debate - Education Forum website and read the articles that I and/or Sandy Larsen posted on Calvery and on self-described American Indian Stella Mae Jacob (whom certain JFKA heavyweights confused with Calvery in the Zapruder film eons ago.) 

We can see Calvery and her dressed-all-in-white (including white headscarf) colleague, Hicks, on the steps in the Couch-Darnell clip 25-30 seconds after the final shot. We can even see a part of Calvery's plaid shirt in one or two of the frames.

In his 11/22/63 affidavit to the Dallas County Sheriff’s Department (24H226), William Shelley said, “The President’s car was about halfway from Houston Street to the Triple Underpass when I heard what sounded like three shots. I couldn’t tell where they came from. I ran across the street to the corner of the park [i.e., the "island"] and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. The girl’s name is Gloria Calvery,” and in his 4/7/64 Warren Commission testimony (6H327), Shelley said, "Gloria Calvery from South-Western Publishing Company ran back up there crying and said, "The President has been shot," and Billy Lovelady and myself took off."

In his 4/7/64 Warren Commission testimony (6H336), Billy Lovelady said, "It didn't occur to me at first what had happened until this Gloria came running up to us and told us the President had been shot."

Interestingly, in the same Couch-Darnell clip we can see DPD motorcycle officer Marion Baker running towards the TSBD steps, Shelley and Lovelady walking/running down Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard / parking lot, and Calvery's other colleague, black-skirt-and-white-blouse-wearing Carol Reed, running past Shelley and Lovelady while bookin' it to the TSBD.

(Pat Speer speculates that Lovelady and Shelley sped up right after Reed passed them because she confirmed to them that JFK had been shot.)

Question:

Were Calvery and Hicks able to run to the "island" quickly enough to not only inform Shelley (and Lovelady?) there that JFK had been shot, but to give them 15-20 seconds to get as far down Elm Street Extension as we see them in Couch-Darnell?

My answer:

Having run the 40-yard dash in 4.8 seconds in high school (not bad for a big clodhopper like me), I say "Yes, they were."

Bottom line:

If Vicki Adams and /or Sandra Styles saw Shelley and /or Lovelady on the TSBD's first floor when they arrived there from the fourth floor, it must have been after Shelley and Lovelady had returned to the TSBD from the railway yard / parking lot (where they said they'd stayed for a minute-and-a-half, IIRC).

Just to inject a bit of honesty into this thread.
Shelley's affidavit and his WC testimony completely contradict each other.

The sequence of events described in his affidavit is as follows:
1] On front steps when he hears shots
2] Heads to the concrete spur (on his own) where he meets Gloria.
3] Returns to the TSBD
4] Re-enters the building

The sequence of events described in his WC testimony is as follows:
1] On front steps when he hears shots
2] Waits on steps for about 3 minutes before Gloria arrives at steps
3] Both he and Lovelady then head over to the concrete spur.
4] He turns and sees Baker and Truly still outside the building.
5] Heads down Elm Street extension to the railroad yard, hangs around there for a while, re-enters building through west door (none of which is mentioned in his affidavit).

The main problem for young Thomas is Lovelady.
In his WC testimony Lovelady heads across to the spur AFTER interacting with Gloria on the steps (in his affidavit he never even leaves the steps before re-entering the building).
It is impossible for the two figures on Elm Street to be Shelley and Lovelady if this is the case.
There is simply no time as Gloria had just arrived at the steps in Darnell.
There is no way around this for young Thomas.

However, if we accept the affidavits of Shelley and Lovelady, and that Lovelady was still on the steps when Gloria came up and told him about the shooting, it is clear that Darnell is showing the moment Gloria arrives at the steps. The man she is talking to on the steps is Lovelady (who is stood in exactly the same position on the steps he was as the motorcade passed by).
There is nothing contradicting this identification.

[Dan O'meara]

Mr. BALL. After you heard these noises you said sounded like firecrackers this
girl came up and said the President was shot?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. You were still standing there?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. There was still some time lapse from the time you heard the noise
like a firecracker and she came up?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Then you went out across Elm?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, to the divider.
Mr. BALL. Between the two Elm Streets?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. The one street dead ends and the other street that goes on down
under the viaduct?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you run out to the point or walk out?
Mr. SHELLEY. I believe we trotted out there.
Mr. BALL. Did you stay very long?
Mr. SHELLEY. Oh, it wasn’t very long.
Mr. BALL. How long?
Mr. SHELLEY. Maybe a minute or two.

Shelley was still stood on the steps when Gloria came up (about 3 minutes after the shooting).
After Gloria came to the steps he went to the spur.
He stayed there maybe a minute or two.
The men on Elm cannot be Shelley and Lovelady. They are already making their way down Elm only 25 seconds after the shooting.
There is no time for the 3 minute wait.
No time for Gloria to finish telling them about the shooting.
No time to wait on the island for a minute or two.

[Tom Graves]

Just to inject a bit of honesty into this thread.
Shelley's affidavit and his WC testimony completely contradict each other.

The sequence of events described in his affidavit is as follows:
1] On front steps when he hears shots
2] Heads to the concrete spur (on his own) where he meets Gloria.
3] Returns to the TSBD
4] Re-enters the building

The sequence of events described in his WC testimony is as follows:
1] On front steps when he hears shots
2] Waits on steps for about 3 minutes before Gloria arrives at steps
3] Both he and Lovelady then head over to the concrete spur.
4] He turns and sees Baker and Truly still outside the building.
5] Heads down Elm Street extension to the railroad yard, hangs around there for a while, re-enters building through west door (none of which is mentioned in his affidavit).

The main problem for young Thomas is Lovelady.
In his WC testimony Lovelady heads across to the spur AFTER interacting with Gloria on the steps (in his affidavit he never even leaves the steps before re-entering the building).
It is impossible for the two figures on Elm Street to be Shelley and Lovelady if this is the case.
There is simply no time as Gloria had just arrived at the steps in Darnell.
There is no way around this for young Thomas.

However, if we accept the affidavits of Shelley and Lovelady, and that Lovelady was still on the steps when Gloria came up and told him about the shooting, it is clear that Darnell is showing the moment Gloria arrives at the steps. The man she is talking to on the steps is Lovelady (who is stood in exactly the same position on the steps he was as the motorcade passed by).
There is nothing contradicting this identification.

Big/tall, 20-year-old, dark-blue-skirt-wearing / dark-blue-headscarf-wearing / lighter-colored-plaid-skirt-wearing Gloria Calvery and her three headscarf-wearing work colleagues were standing shoulder-to-shoulder about 40 yards from the "island" during the motorcade.

Calvery can be seen standing on or going up the TSBD steps next to her dressed-in-all-white colleague, Karan Hicks, 25-30 seconds after the final shot in the Couch-Darnell clip.

A guy who looks like William Shelley and a guy who looks like Billy Lovelady can be seen walking/running down Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard / parking lot 25-30 seconds after the final shot in the Couch-Darnell clip.

The Shelley figure is slender, wearing a suit, and has a "pompadour" hair style. The Lovelady figure has a "male pattern" bald spot and is wearing a dark-colored long-sleeve shirt that has bold black and white horizontal and vertical lines.

Calvery's and Hicks' colleague, Carol Reed (who is wearing a black skirt, a white blouse, and a red headscarf in the Zapruder film, and who has told researcher Brian Doyle that she remembers running after the assassination), can be seen running past the Shelley and Lovelady figures, on her way to the TSBD 25-30 seconds after the final shot in the Couch-Darnell clip.

Police officer Marion Baker can be seen running towards the TSBD front steps, and Roy Truly, standing in front of the steps, can be seen watching Baker run past him 25-30 seconds after the final shot in the Couch-Darnell clip.

Shelley and Lovelady, due to poor memories and/or for sinister reasons, were "all over the place" (pardon the pun) in their affidavits and testimonies, but if we combine what we see in Couch-Darnell with certain statements in their affidavits and testimonies, we can create a plausible narrative which says:

Shelley (and Lovelady?) intercepted a crying Calvery and Hicks at the "island" about ten seconds after the final shot, Calvery (and Hicks?) told Shelley (and Lovelady?) there that JFK had been shot, Shelley and Lovelady started walking towards the railway yard / parking lot, Calvery and Hicks continued on their way to the TSBD steps (where Buell Wesley Frazier said he heard her bellow out that JFK had been shot), Shelley and Lovelady sped up when Carol Reed ran past them and verbally confirmed that JFK had been shot, and Shelley and Lovelady, after staying at the railway yard / parking lot for a minute or so, came back to the TSBD and entered it through a rear door, near which rear door just-arrived-from-the-fourth-floor Vicki Adams and/or Sandra Styles may (or may not) have seen Shelley and/or Lovelady on the first floor in the rear part of the building.

. . . . . . .

Caveat:

I don't subscribe to the "Prayer Man" theory, but Greg Parker's website has some good images of Lovelady and Shelley showing how they closely resemble the Shelley and Lovelady figures who are walking/running towards the railway yard / parking lot 25-30 seconds after the final shot in Couch-Darnell.

http://www.prayer-man.com/tsbd/billy-nolan-lovelady/