Who Were the Two Men Heading *Down* the Stairs at NLT 12:50?

[Mitch Todd]

     You are another that is short on detailed foundational knowledge. You need to bone up on Euins WC Testimony and the structures which stretch down the Elm St. Extension. In Euins WC Testimony, he indicated on a map where he 1st came into contact with Officer Harkness. This point of contact was where the buildings running down the Elm St Extension end and a FENCE then begins. Inside this FENCE is ANOTHER LOADING DOCK. This additional dock also connects to the TSBD. If you continued walking directly out into the railroad yard from the end of this chain link fence, you would come to the Check Point that Harkness set up out there in order to secure the back of the TSBD. This would be where we see Harkness and the "No Glove Cop" within feet of each other on the Darnell Film.  Belin asked Harkness - "BEHIND the builiding?" And Harkness replied, "NO sir, this area right here".
     I don't mind helping you out, but please do your necessary JFK Assassination research beforehand. Thanks

I'm assuming that by "FENCE" you're talking about the v-shaped chain link fence between the first RR yard spur and the TSBD parking are west of the annex covered parking. He could also be referring to the GK picket fence; he doesn't specify. I'm going to bend cardinal directions a bit so they match the main downtown Dallas street grid. The chain link fence meets the Elm St extension west of the TSBD and well clear of any part of the Depository.

In the Darnell film, it is easily apparent that Darnell's position is in line with the south curb of the Elm St extension, and that Harkness is about 25-30' north of Darnell's position. Which would put Harkness more or less in line with the north side of the Elm St extension. In turn, this puts him directly west any position he would have taken next to the fence. And not by that far. So, if Harkness is not behind the TSBD when he's on the ESX near the fence, he's also not behind the TSBD when he's at his position in the Darnell film.

That being said, it's worth repeating that "behind" is the opposite of 'in front of." In front of the TSBD is to the south of it. That would put "behind" to the north of the building. The Darnell film shows Harkness to the west of the SW corner of the building. Anyone with the sense of a mule can figure this out. 

 

[Royell Storing]

I'm assuming that by "FENCE" you're talking about the v-shaped chain link fence between the first RR yard spur and the TSBD parking are west of the annex covered parking. He could also be referring to the GK picket fence; he doesn't specify. I'm going to bend cardinal directions a bit so they match the main downtown Dallas street grid. The chain link fence meets the Elm St extension west of the TSBD and well clear of any part of the Depository.

In the Darnell film, it is easily apparent that Darnell's position is in line with the south curb of the Elm St extension, and that Harkness is about 25-30' north of Darnell's position. Which would put Harkness more or less in line with the north side of the Elm St extension. In turn, this puts him directly west any position he would have taken next to the fence. And not by that far. So, if Harkness is not behind the TSBD when he's on the ESX near the fence, he's also not behind the TSBD when he's at his position in the Darnell film.

That being said, it's worth repeating that "behind" is the opposite of 'in front of." In front of the TSBD is to the south of it. That would put "behind" to the north of the building. The Darnell film shows Harkness to the west of the SW corner of the building. Anyone with the sense of a mule can figure this out.

    Would you consider the 2 Story railroad tower to be "behind" the TSBD? Harkness is standing close to that railroad tower.

    I disagree with your physical placement of Darnell.  Darnell, Harkness, and "No Glove Cop" are almost directly in line with each other when Harkness and "No Glove Cop" are filmed together early on.

    The "fence" I am referring to encloses the loading dock at the end of the Elm St Ext. You have the TSBD, the Huge Gates, and then the Brick Warehouse. Where the Brick Warehouse ends, the FENCE then begins and runs toward the railroad yard. 

[Mitch Todd]

    Would you consider the 2 Story railroad tower to be "behind" the TSBD? Harkness is standing close to that railroad tower.

    I disagree with your physical placement of Darnell.  Darnell, Harkness, and "No Glove Cop" are almost directly in line with each other when Harkness and "No Glove Cop" are filmed together early on.

    The "fence" I am referring to encloses the loading dock at the end of the Elm St Ext. You have the TSBD, the Huge Gates, and then the Brick Warehouse. Where the Brick Warehouse ends, the FENCE then begins and runs toward the railroad yard.

In the Harkness/Haygood/Walthers segment of the D film shows that Darnell, Harkness, and he cop identified as Haygood are aligned along a string of wooden bollards that line the east side of the western RR yard spur. There is a bollard just to the north of the helmeted motorcycle cop. This puts him just south of the gap in the bollards that allow cars to drive on the dirt extension of the ESX where it turns to the Northwest. Of course, Harkness is south of the motorcycle cop. This places Harkness roughly in-line with the front face of the TSBD. That's not what anyone would call "behind the TSBD"

In the below image, the black line runs along the south curb of the ESX and extends to the west of it. D, H, and C are the positions of Darnell, Harkness, and the motorcycle cop. The yellow line is the chain link fence.

[Royell Storing]

In the Harkness/Haygood/Walthers segment of the D film shows that Darnell, Harkness, and he cop identified as Haygood are aligned along a string of wooden bollards that line the east side of the western RR yard spur. There is a bollard just to the north of the helmeted motorcycle cop. This puts him just south of the gap in the bollards that allow cars to drive on the dirt extension of the ESX where it turns to the Northwest. Of course, Harkness is south of the motorcycle cop. This places Harkness roughly in-line with the front face of the TSBD. That's not what anyone would call "behind the TSBD"

In the below image, the black line runs along the south curb of the ESX and extends to the west of it. D, H, and C are the positions of Darnell, Harkness, and the motorcycle cop. The yellow line is the chain link fence.

   Have you examined the recently uncovered Darnell Film snippet? Steve Barber posted 1 very sharp still frame from that snippet. You have incorrectly positioned all 3 people. (1) The "No Glove Cop" should be on the other side of the dirt road. (2) Officer Harkness  was across from him on that same dirt road. (3) Darnell needs to be moved closer to "No Glove Cop" and Officer Harkness. On that new Darnell Film snippet, Darnell films down the Elm St Ext. Darnell would not be able to do that from the position you have him in. 

[Mitch Todd]

   Have you examined the recently uncovered Darnell Film snippet? Steve Barber posted 1 very sharp still frame from that snippet. You have incorrectly positioned all 3 people. (1) The "No Glove Cop" should be on the other side of the dirt road. (2) Officer Harkness  was across from him on that same dirt road. (3) Darnell needs to be moved closer to "No Glove Cop" and Officer Harkness. On that new Darnell Film snippet, Darnell films down the Elm St Ext. Darnell would not be able to do that from the position you have him in.

RS:  Have you examined the recently uncovered Darnell Film snippet?

Yes. In it, you see that Darnell is standing south and west of the depository when he's filming the crowd on the Elm Street extension. When he does so, you can see a street sign on the S side of the ESX right in front of one of the oak trees that line Elm. That's why the black line locates his position.


RS: The "No Glove Cop" should be on the other side of the dirt road.

No. There is a string of bollards running between the motorcycle cop and Harkness. You see the bollards when the cop walks past them. There wouldn't be a line of bollards placed across a dirt road. You'd also have us believe that there's a car parked in the middle of the dirt road.


RS: Officer Harkness  was across from him on that same dirt road

Also no, and for the same reasons.

 

[Royell Storing]

RS:  Have you examined the recently uncovered Darnell Film snippet?

Yes. In it, you see that Darnell is standing south and west of the depository when he's filming the crowd on the Elm Street extension. When he does so, you can see a street sign on the S side of the ESX right in front of one of the oak trees that line Elm. That's why the black line locates his position.


RS: The "No Glove Cop" should be on the other side of the dirt road.

No. There is a string of bollards running between the motorcycle cop and Harkness. You see the bollards when the cop walks past them. There wouldn't be a line of bollards placed across a dirt road. You'd also have us believe that there's a car parked in the middle of the dirt road.


RS: Officer Harkness  was across from him on that same dirt road

Also no, and for the same reasons.

   You are Not describing the new Darnell Film snippet. Darnell is not standing near the TSBD when he films this snippet. He is standing well inside the railroad yard, close to Harkness, the No Glove Cop, and Buddy Walthers.  Please get yourself up-to-speed and then get back to me. 

[Mitch Todd]

   You are Not describing the new Darnell Film snippet. Darnell is not standing near the TSBD when he films this snippet. He is standing well inside the railroad yard, close to Harkness, the No Glove Cop, and Buddy Walthers.  Please get yourself up-to-speed and then get back to me.

I didn't say Darnell was near the TSBD. I said he was positioned both west and south of the TSBD, as can easily be determined from his film. It's position "D" on the image I shared earlier. You will note that I've put Darnell "well inside the railroad yard, close to Harkness, the No Glove Cop, and Buddy Walthers," as you have said yourself.