JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
There seems to be a problem with Officer Baker's testimony.
Steve M. Galbraith:
--- Quote from: Bill Binnie on September 10, 2025, 01:18:20 AM ---if someone was sprinting accross 2x6 floor boards that were decades old, right over the three mens heads, it is certain they would have heard somthing -
--- End quote ---
Norman, Jarman and Williams ran down the stairs and no one saw or heard them. Adams and Styles ran down the stairs and no one saw them or heard them. Truly and Baker ran up the stairs and only Oswald saw them. It seems that the people in the building didn't hear things you think they should have.
And Norman, Jarman and Williams said they ran to the west side of the building right after the shots to get a better look as to what happened. They were at the opposite side of the floor when the shooter - that Norman heard right above him - would have gone down the stairs. The shooter at that window disappeared. How did he do this? And who do you think it was?
It also seems the boards weren't as creaky as you believe. Roy Lewis, one of the order fillers who worked in the building:
Tim Nickerson:
--- Quote from: Dan O'meara on September 10, 2025, 12:37:56 AM ---My mind is made up based on the evidence.
No, it's not.
You have interpreted this evidence based on your preconceived notions.
It's the worst possible approach to evidence.
--- End quote ---
Provide some specifics where I've interpreted evidence based on my preconceived notions.
--- Quote ---The Dillard picture confirms Adams' assertion that she decided to race downstairs to find out what was going on before the limo had even reached the underpass. By the time Dillard took the picture Adams and Styles were already on their way with Garner following them into the back storage room.
That is the importance of the Dillard pic.
--- End quote ---
Nope. The Dillard pic confirms that none of the four women were at the open window at the time that the photo was taken. Nothing more than that.
--- Quote ---All of this is further confirmed by Dorothy Garner's recollection that Adams and Styles went down the stairs before Truly and Baker came up them, as recorded in the Stroud document. Another piece of evidence you treat with utter contempt. The only way it is possible for Adams and Styles to go down the stairs before Truly and Baker come up them, without either party being aware of the other, is for Adams and Styles to race away from the windows within seconds of the shooting.
Adams' recollection, the Dillard picture and the Stroud document support each other.
--- End quote ---
We don't have Dorothy Garner's recollection that Adams and Styles went down the stairs before Truly and Baker came up. All we have is a document written by Martha Stroud saying that Garner said that Adams went down the stairs before Truly and a policeman came up. We are not told who Garner said that to.
--- Quote ---It has been demonstrated, beyond any reasonable doubt, that Shelley and Lovelady lied about their movements after the assassination. Adams saw them on the first floor, near the elevators, approximately one minute after the shooting. What were they doing there and why did they lie about their movements?
--- End quote ---
You are pathetic. You need to believe that Shelley and Lovelady lied. In the Darnell film, we can see Lovelady walking westward after the shooting. It appears that Shelley is walking close to him traveling in the same direction. That confirms their testimonies that they went to the railway tracks after the shooting. And yes, that is Lovelady.
--- Quote ---This is from Sandra Styles' email to Murphy:
"At the time, I first thought we went downstairs
quickly; but in thinking about it further, I came to the conclusion
that it was not immediately. I told an interviewer (FBI? not sure)
that when we got downstairs, the police were there so I assumed we
went down quickly; however, the interviewer told me that it took the
police 15-20 minutes to get to the Depository, so I accepted that we
must have taken longer to get downstairs than I first thought."
Hmmmm....she thought they went down quickly at first because she saw the police on the first floor but was told the police didn't arrive in the building for around 15 minutes so she figured it must have taken longer than she first thought ???
Unless, of course, the police she saw was Baker.
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Tim.
--- End quote ---
Sandra Styles: "We did linger at the window a bit trying to sort it out, and I'm sure it was Vicki's idea to go find out what was going on; therefore we wouldn't have waited a long time to make the decision to go downstairs. I am certain that we went to the public elevator first, but may not have waited long there either."
.....
Sean Murphy: Could she recall what her initial time estimate for their going to the stairs was - i.e. before she was told that the police didn't get to the Depository for 15-20 minutes?
Her answer: 'Not less than a minute, I thought more like a couple
Tim Nickerson:
--- Quote from: Bill Binnie on September 10, 2025, 01:18:20 AM ---if someone was sprinting accross 2x6 floor boards that were decades old, right over the three mens heads, it is certain they would have heard somthing -
--- End quote ---
Is not.
Royell Storing:
--- Quote from: Steve M. Galbraith on September 10, 2025, 01:30:41 AM ---Norman, Jarman and Williams ran down the stairs and no one saw or heard them. Adams and Styles ran down the stairs and no one saw them or heard them. Truly and Baker ran up the stairs and only Oswald saw them. It seems that the people in the building didn't hear things you think they should have.
It also seems the boards weren't as creaky as you believe. Roy Lewis, one of the order fillers who worked in the building:
--- End quote ---
You're forgetting about Norman hearing the carcano hulls hit the ceiling/floor above him. If that can be heard, a grown man moving across that same floor can be heard below too.
Those "sneaking up" hijinks must have happened on different floor(s)and/or outside of the sniper's nest corner. Besides, the stairwell is Kitty-Corner from the sniper's nest. Nobody is gonna go to all the trouble to climb that stairwell and then tip toe across the entire 6th Floor just to "Boo" somebody.
Royell Storing:
--- Quote from: Tim Nickerson on September 10, 2025, 01:31:48 AM ---Provide some specifics where I've interpreted evidence based on my preconceived notions.
Nope. The Dillard pic confirms that none of the four women were at the open window at the time that the photo was taken. Nothing more than that.
We don't have Dorothy Garner's recollection that Adams and Styles went down the stairs before Truly and Baker came up. All we have is a document written by Martha Stroud saying that Garner said that Adams went down the stairs before Truly and a policeman came up. We are not told who Garner said that to.
You are pathetic. You need to believe that Shelley and Lovelady lied. In the Darnell film, we can see Lovelady walking westward after the shooting. It appears that Shelley is walking close to him traveling in the same direction. That confirms their testimonies that they went to the railway tracks after the shooting. And yes, that is Lovelady.
Sandra Styles: "We did linger at the window a bit trying to sort it out, and I'm sure it was Vicki's idea to go find out what was going on; therefore we wouldn't have waited a long time to make the decision to go downstairs. I am certain that we went to the public elevator first, but may not have waited long there either."
.....
Sean Murphy: Could she recall what her initial time estimate for their going to the stairs was - i.e. before she was told that the police didn't get to the Depository for 15-20 minutes?
Her answer: 'Not less than a minute, I thought more like a couple
--- End quote ---
Unless the currently accepted timeline on the Darnell Film is incorrect, Shelley and Lovelady had their own timeline Wrong. They both gave corroborating WC Testimony that it took them roughly 2-3 minutes to begin heading down the Elm St Ext. If they got that wrong, what else might they have been incorrect about? The other option would be we are Not seeing Shelley and Lovelady heading down the Elm St Ext on the Darnell Film.
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