JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion & Debate > JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate
Team Headed by Former CIA Officer Concludes JFK Was Killed by a Conspiracy
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on August 28, 2025, 03:35:47 PM ---
The Soviets didn't do it, but a KGB mole may have caused Oswald to shoot JFK?
--- End quote ---
I said the Soviets probably didn't do it, but they may have. There's a possibility that the moles (plural) in the CIA, in conjunction with a Kremlin-loyal triple agent in the FBI and the local KGB / DGI, manipulated Oswald and/or "Oswald" in Mexico City.
One does wonder why KGB security officer Ivan Obyedkov (whom the CIA mistakenly believed it had successfully recruited) volunteered the made-radioactive-by-FEDORA* name "Kostikov" to a "forgetful" Oswald or "Oswald" over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA phoneline on 10/1/63.
*FEDORA was a Kremlin-loyal triple agent by the name of KGB Major Aleksei Kulak at the FBI's NYC field office. He duped the FBI from early 1962 to 1977. FBI manager/agent James Nolan "saw the light" about the time that Edward J. Epstein published his book, "Legend," but after three years a counterintelligence-hating manager/agent by the name of James Geer, with help from "researchers" provided to him by probable KGB mole Leonard V. McCoy in the CIA, reversed Nolan's determination that Kulak was fake, and the "official" Gumshoe Bureau position today is that Kulak/FEDORA really was spying for the FBI. LOL!
--- Quote ---Anyone who posits a conspiracy is a "useful idiot" for the KGB/FSB/SVR.
--- End quote ---
Especially a JFK assassination conspiracy theory.
A "useful idiot" is, by definition, unwitting. People who have been zombified by sixty-six years of KGB disinformation, "active measures," and mole-based strategic deception counterintelligence operations waged against us and our NATO allies are unwitting "useful idiots." Take you, for example.
Or . . . gasp . . . are you witting?
If so, does "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin pay you, or do you do it for free?
Regardless, the "KGB" no longer exists in name. To make us feel more comfortable and to get us to drop our guard, the Kremlin in 1992 renamed the KGB's two component parts (the First Chief Directorate -- foreign intelligence -- became the SVR; the Second Chief Directorate -- domestic intelligence and overall counterintelligence -- became the FSB) and did away with the overall name "KGB." Your writing it like that shows your ignorance. You should have written "SVR/FSB and GRU (military intelligence)," instead.
--- Quote ---Khrushchev heartily welcomed JFK's peace overtures and by June 1963 came to view JFK as an ally and friend.
--- End quote ---
Analogous to how "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin views Trump as an ally and friend as he continues bombing civilians in Ukraine?
--- Quote ---He deeply mourned JFK's death. Khrushchev's family later confirmed this.
--- End quote ---
That's what they said, so it must be true.
(LOL)
--- Quote ---FYI, one of the first things Bobby and Jackie Kennedy did after the assassination was to send a private message to the Soviets to assure them that they knew the Soviets were not involved in JFK's death and that JFK was killed by a domestic conspiracy.
--- End quote ---
I'm sure that warmed the cockles of the Politburo's collective (pardon the pun) heart.
Michael T. Griffith:
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on August 29, 2025, 12:13:44 AM ---I said the Soviets probably didn't do it, but they may have. There's a possibility that the moles (plural) in the CIA, in conjunction with a Kremlin-loyal triple agent in the FBI and the local KGB / DGI, manipulated Oswald and/or "Oswald" in Mexico City.
--- End quote ---
#waffling_all_over_the_place
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on August 29, 2025, 12:13:44 AM ---Especially a JFK assassination conspiracy theory. A "useful idiot" is, by definition, unwitting. People who have been zombified by sixty-six years of KGB disinformation, "active measures," and mole-based strategic deception counterintelligence operations waged against us and our NATO allies are unwitting "useful idiots."
--- End quote ---
Humm, well, that means 2/3 to 3/4 of the Western world are "useful idiots."
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on August 29, 2025, 12:13:44 AM ---Take you, for example. Or . . . gasp . . . are you witting? If so, does "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin pay you, or do you do it for free?
--- End quote ---
Do your parents know you're using one of their computers to post such craziness?
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on August 29, 2025, 12:13:44 AM ---Analogous to how "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin views Trump as an ally and friend as he continues bombing civilians in Ukraine?
--- End quote ---
More of your juvenile silliness.
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on August 29, 2025, 12:13:44 AM ---That's what they said, so it must be true. (LOL)
--- End quote ---
Uh, yeah, because his family was quite anti-Stalin and anti-hardline. They admired Kennedy, especially after his American University speech. But, I guess in your mind there were no such things as good Russians, or Russians who wanted to see the Soviet Union reform and allow more basic rights. I'm guessing you don't know that Khrushchev repeatedly tried to cut Soviet military spending and came under fierce attack from hardliners for doing so.
--- Quote from: Tom Graves on August 29, 2025, 12:13:44 AM ---I'm sure that warmed the cockles of the Politburo's collective (pardon the pun) heart.
--- End quote ---
Another narrow-minded juvenile comment.
Again, you are not to be taken seriously. You come across as a troll who is obsessed with blaming everything on the Russians.
Tom Graves:
--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on August 29, 2025, 03:48:03 PM ---That means 2/3 to 3/4 of the Western world are "useful idiots."
--- End quote ---
Dear Comrade Griffith,
Those who, like you, have been brainwashed by sixty-two years of KGB* disinformation via Mark Lane, Jim Garrison, and Oliver Stone, et al. ad nauseam, into believing that self-described Marxist and former sharpshooting Marine Lee Harvey Oswald didn't kill JFK, but that the evil, evil CIA, or the evil, evil Military Industrial Intelligence-Community Complex, or the evil, evil [fill in the blank] did sure are.
Or, OMG, are you actually working for "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin? After all, you do spend a lot of time posting here and/or at the so-called Ed Forum every day, and you do go about it with a religious zeal!
Why is it so important to you to wittingly or unwittingly spread KGB* disinfo, Comrade Griffith?
You've said that you're "right-of-center." Does that mean you're a supporter of The Traitorous Orange Bird (rhymes with "Xxxx")? If so, seeing as how conspiracy theories helped "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin install him as our "president," it could explain why you're so dedicated to ensuring that tinfoil-hat JFKA CTs continue to thrive.
Please fess up Comrade Griffith!
*Today's SVR and FSB
-- Tom
Jon Banks:
--- Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on August 27, 2025, 03:09:48 PM ---In 2017, the History Channel aired a seven-part documentary titled JFK Declassified: Tracking Oswald produced by former CIA case officer Robert Baer. Baer and his team conducted an extensive investigation into the JFK assassination. Baer's team included a former LAPD detective (Adam Bercovici), a former FBI profiler (Steve Gomez), and a former Special Forces Army Ranger (Marty Skovlund). Baer and his team got many things wrong, but they also got many things right. WC apologists don't like Baer's documentary because it acknowledges too many facts that they reject and reaches too many conclusions that they reject, such as the following:
-- Oswald received intelligence training and had some kind of connection with the U.S. Government after he left the Marines.
-- Oswald associated with anti-Castro Cubans and even trained with them in New Orleans. Oswald also associated with Cuban intelligence operatives.
-- The owner of Henry's Market, aka Henry's Bar, in New Orleans said Oswald came to the bar many times, and that the day after the assassination two Cubans came to the bar and told him Oswald was innocent and that Oswald had been framed.
-- Oswald's job at the Reilly Coffee Company in New Orleans was a "cover for action," that his job was a "front," a "cover." Oswald could have found a job much closer to his residence in New Orleans. Reilly's was across the street from the Crescent City Garage, which was used by federal agents as a kind of motor pool for their vehicles.
-- Adrian Alba, the owner of the Crescent City Garage, was telling the truth when he reported that he saw an FBI agent hand Oswald an envelope in front of the Reilly Coffee Company.
-- Silvia Odio told the truth when she reported that Oswald and two anti-Castro Cubans visited her residence in Dallas weeks before the assassination, and that one of the Cubans phoned her a few days later and told her that Oswald was an expert marksman and that Oswald had said that anti-Castro Cubans should have already killed JFK over the Bay of Bigs.
-- A Dallas police report noted that Oswald was seen visiting a house used by Alpha 66 members in Dallas. Alpha 66 was a violent anti-Castro and anti-JFK group. The house, located on Harlandale Avenue, was rented by Manuel Rodriguez Orcaberro, an Alpha 66 member who was known to be virulently anti-JFK.
-- Oswald was trying to reach the Harlandale house after the assassination. The bus transfer allegedly found on Oswald hours after he was arrested could have taken him to a point very close to the Harlandale house.
-- Oswald conspired with anti-Castro Cubans to kill JFK. Oswald was the only shooter, but he was supported by Alpha 66 members and other anti-Castro Cubans. If Oswald had made it to the Harlandale house, Alpha 66 members would have helped him escape.
-- The Russians played no role in the assassination, and Oswald was not working for the Russians.
-- Castro was aware of the Alpha 66 plot to assassinate JFK but did nothing to stop it. He monitored it but did not intervene to prevent it.
For these and other reasons, WC apologists have been critical of Baer's documentary, even though Baer and his team argue that Oswald was the only shooter and that Oswald shot Tippit.
The documentary is available on Amazon Prime Video and on other platforms. Here are some sources on the documentary, some favorable and some unfavorable:
https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/jfk-declassified-tracking-oswald
https://sofrep.com/news/sofrep-exclusive-interview-with-army-ranger-marty-skovlund-jr-from-historys-new-show-jfk-declassified-tracking-oswald/
https://time.com/4753349/oswald-kennedy-declassified-documentary/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK_Declassified:_Tracking_Oswald
https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/jfk-declassified-tracking-oswald-part-6
--- End quote ---
Interesting series.
They made a convincing argument based on the bus routes in 1963 that Oswald was attempting to go to the alleged Alpha 66 house in Dallas before the Tippit incident.
The New Orleans and Mexico City episodes were very interesting too but they kind of danced around the issue of Oswald being impersonated in Mexico City.
I'm less convinced by the implication in the show that Castro was involved or had foreknowledge.
Michael T. Griffith:
--- Quote from: Jon Banks on September 04, 2025, 03:23:25 PM ---Interesting series.
They made a convincing argument based on the bus routes in 1963 that Oswald was attempting to go to the alleged Alpha 66 house in Dallas before the Tippit incident.
The New Orleans and Mexico City episodes were very interesting too but they kind of danced around the issue of Oswald being impersonated in Mexico City.
I'm less convinced by the implication in the show that Castro was involved or had foreknowledge.
--- End quote ---
The Harlandale Ave. house in Dallas was definitely used by Alpha 66.
Yes, they failed to address the evidence that Oswald was being impersonated in Mexico City. I'm not sure they were even aware of it, although they should have been if they read the HSCA's Lopez-Hardway report.
Regarding Castro's involvement/foreknowledge, if the Cuban intel defector whom they interviewed was telling the truth, his account indicates that Cuban intelligence had some knowledge of the plot, and it's hard to imagine that they would have kept this from Castro.
I know the series has a lot of deficiencies, but it shows that even intelligent people who began their research assuming that Oswald was the only shooter, and who continue to think Oswald was the only shooter, don't buy the arguments that WC apologists make against Oswald's intelligence ties, Silvia Odio's account, Oswald's ties with anti-Castro Cubans, and Adrian Alba's account.
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