The Entrance Wound in the Throat, the Front Shirt Slits, and Tie Knot Nick

[Michael T. Griffith]

Here's another GIF comparison from a completely different angle that absolutely destroys your latest lame "certain fact".
JohnM

More of your bogus graphics. I notice you didn't use any of the photos that we have of JFK in the limo in Dallas shortly before the shooting. Why was that? We both know why.

Even in your silly "GIF comparison," we can plainly see that any bullet exiting the shirt slits would have had to tear through the tie, but the released tie photos prove there was no hole in the tie.

I also notice you said nothing about the fact that three Parkland doctors said the throat wound was visible before JFK's clothes were removed. This would not have been the case if the throat wound had been behind/beneath the shirt slits. Surely even you can see this.

I further notice that you said nothing about the fact that the FBI found no metallic traces around the shirt slits but did find metallic traces around the rear clothing holes, and that the slits had no fabric missing from them. If a bullet had exited the slits, (1) it would have left metallic traces around the edges of the slits, and (2) it would have removed fabric, just as fabric was removed from the rear clothing holes.

Honestly, dealing with SBT believers is like dealing with cultists or with those who claim the Moon landings were faked and/or that 9/11 was an inside job. Even when confronted with undeniable and conclusive evidence that disproves your theory, you refuse to abandon it.

[John Mytton]

Kennedy at Love Field wearing the exact same shirt and tie as when he was shot and as can be clearly seen in every example I have presented, the exiting bullet by definition has to pass at the same height as JFK's tie knot.



To suggest that Kennedy's professionally fitted shirt and tie were somehow excessively lowered at the time of impact is sheer lunacy. In the following GIF, which vividly demonstrates Kennedy and Connally's violent simultaneous reaction we can easily see JFK's expertly fitted shirt and tie is seated at precisely the same height as every other photo/film taken of Kennedy.



JohnM

[Tim Nickerson]

I further notice that you said nothing about the fact that the FBI found no metallic traces around the shirt slits but did find metallic traces around the rear clothing holes, and that the slits had no fabric missing from them. If a bullet had exited the slits, (1) it would have left metallic traces around the edges of the slits,

"The nine representative rounds of 9mm Luger ammunition were fired into 100% white cotton t-shirts,
fitted over a device to approximate body torso thickness, at a muzzle to target distance of six feet (72 inches) in
a manner that created an entrance hole in the front and an exit hole in the back of the t-shirt for each shot. All
nine bullet entrance holes and exit holes were subjected to XRF analysis. Entrance hole residues ranged in
lead concentration levels from 190 parts per million (ppm) to over 1,000 ppm while exit hole residue lead
levels ranged from zero to 74 ppm. In all cases, entrance hole lead concentrations were at least six times
higher than exit hole lead levels"

https://www.aafs.org/sites/default/files/media/documents/AAFS-2009-A181.pdf

[Mitch Todd]

  Hey John - How do you explain the claim that 3 Dr's reported seeing the throat wound BEFORE the JFK shirt/tie was removed? Also, based on your diagram of the bullet path, where would the bullet impact Gov Connally or the jump seat? This is why the SBT does Not work. You line up the shot to match the JFK throat wound and it then does Not line up with striking just above the jump seat and the back/armpit of Gov Connally. You have presented only a portion of this equation.

Which 3 Doctors are you talking about?

If you look through all of Carrico's WC testimony, you'll find this:
 
Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe as to the President's condition upon his arrival?
Dr. CARRICO - He was lying on a carriage, his respirations were slow, spasmodic, described as agonal.
Mr. SPECTER - What do you mean by "agonal" if I may interrupt you for just a moment there, Doctor?
Dr. CARRICO - These are respirations seen in one who has lost the normal coordinated central control of respiration. These are spasmodic and usually reflect a terminal patient.
Mr. SPECTER - Would you continue to describe your observations of the President?
Dr. CARRICO - His-- the President's color--I don't believe I said--he was an ashen, bluish, grey, cyanotic, he was making no spontaneous movements, I mean, no voluntary movements at all. We opened his shirt and coat and tie and observed a small wound in the anterior lower third of the neck, listened very briefly, heard a few cardiac beats, felt the President's back, and detected no large or sucking chest wounds, and then proceeded to the examination of his head. The large skull and scalp wound had been previously observed and was inspected a little more closely. There seemed to be a 4-5 cm. area of avulsion of the scalp and the skull was fragmented and bleeding cerebral and cerebellar tissue. The pupils were inspected and seemed to be bilaterally dilated and fixed. No pulse was present, and at that time, because of the inadequate respirations and the apparent airway injury, a cuffed endotracheal tube was introduced, employing a larynzoscope. Through the larynzo scope there seemed to be some hematoma around the larynx and immediately below the larynx was seen the ragged tracheal injury. The endotracheal tube was inserted past this injury, the cuff inflated, and the tube was connected to a [Bennet] respirator to assist the inadequate respiration.

In this account, Carrico said that they didn't see the throat wound until after the shirt, coat, and tie had been "opened." This implies that it wasn't visible until they were removing the clothing.

Perry, who came in at the same time as Jones said that Carrico was already "attaching the Bennett apparatus to an endotracheal tube in place to assist his respiration," so Jones could not have seen the wound before the shirt coat and tie had already been moved out of the way. IIRC Goldstritch said he came in with Clark. But Clark, in his own testimony, said that at the time he entered TR1, Perry was already working on the tracheotomy after taking over from Carrico.


 

[Royell Storing]

Kennedy at Love Field wearing the exact same shirt and tie as when he was shot and as can be clearly seen in every example I have presented, the exiting bullet by definition has to pass at the same height as JFK's tie knot.



To suggest that Kennedy's professionally fitted shirt and tie were somehow excessively lowered at the time of impact is sheer lunacy. In the following GIF, which vividly demonstrates Kennedy and Connally's violent simultaneous reaction we can easily see JFK's expertly fitted shirt and tie is seated at precisely the same height as every other photo/film taken of Kennedy.



JohnM

   You seem to have forgotten the "bunching" issue with respect to the Shirt and coat. It could apply here too.

[John Mytton]

   You seem to have forgotten the "bunching" issue with respect to the Shirt and coat. It could apply here too.

The rear of JFK's jacket bunching in the following way is independent of the collar and tie, which are fixed securely around the neck.



We can't see the underlying shirt but there is evidence that Kennedy's shirt demonstrated a near identical bunching.



Explain how you believe a similar bunching can occur to the front of the collar and tie?



JohnM

[Michael T. Griffith]

The rear of JFK's jacket bunching in the following way is independent of the collar and tie, which are fixed securely around the neck.

How many times are you going to post this bogus "evidence" and ignore the objections to it? Again:

1. Willis slide 5, taken almost at the moment of impact of the first hit, shows JFK's coat lying virtually flat on his back.

2. The modest bunching seen in your GIF could not possibly have produced the 5-inch difference between the rear clothing holes and the WC's location for the back wound. This is not to mention that the modest bunching does not even reach the shirt collar.

We can't see the underlying shirt but there is evidence that Kennedy's shirt demonstrated a near identical bunching.

And I'll again point out:

1. The photo you're using shows Kennedy in a very different position than the position he was in when he was shot. In your photo, he's leaning far forward with his elbows and forearms on his legs. In the motorcade, he was reclining back against the seat, and his back never came off the seat until after he began to react to the first hit. Most of JFK's shirt was pinned against the back seat by his torso until he began to react to the first wound.

2. The photo you're using shows JFK wearing only a shirt and no coat, so there was nothing to keep the shirt from bunching. This was not the case during the motorcade.

3. The close alignment of the rear clothing holes means that the shirt and coat would have had to bunch in nearly perfect correspondence, virtually millimeter-for-millimeter correspondence, an absurd proposition.

Explain how you believe a similar bunching can occur to the front of the collar and tie? JohnM

Huh? Explain how a bullet exiting the shirt slits could have missed tearing through the tie. Even your third photo shows that the top part of the tie was neatly centered between the edges of the collar band. We know the slits were below the interior collar band and parallel with the bottom half of the exterior collar band. There is no way a bullet exiting those slits could have avoided tearing through the tie, but we know there was no hole through the tie, only a small nick on the left edge of the knot.

Explain how a bullet exiting the shirt slits could have magically weaved around the bulk of the tie knot and nicked the left edge. It's just nonsense.

I see that Mitch Todd has misleadingly cherry-picked part of Dr. Carrico's testimony, ignoring the part where Carrico specified to WC member Dulles that the throat wound was above the shirt and tie, and ignoring Carrico's detailed interview with Harold Weisberg in which Carrico confirmed that the throat wound was above the shirt and tie, that he saw the throat wound before the clothes were removed, and that he saw no slits in the shirt until after the nurses began cutting away JFK's clothing.

In the segment quoted by Mitch Todd, Carrico was not saying he did not see the throat wound until after the clothing had been removed. The "we" referred to those in the room, including those who had entered the room after the clothing had been cut away. Dr. Ronald Jones specified that he saw the throat wound above the shirt and tie before the clothing was removed. So did Dr. Goldstrich. I quote from the OP:

Dr. Ronald Jones saw JFK's body before the clothes were removed. Interviewed for the 2023 Paramount documentary JFK: What the Doctors Saw, Dr. Jones said the throat wound was "visible" and that it was "just above where the shirt and tie was":

The first thing I noticed was a very small wound in his neck in the front. . . .
We could tell that the wound was in the front of the neck just above
where the shirt and tie was. So it was visible to you.
(18:12-18:19, 18:32-18:39)

In the same documentary, Dr. Joe D. Goldstrich, a fourth-year medical student at Parkland Hospital at the time, said he could see the neck wound when JFK's clothes were still on:

I do remember that very early on, even when his clothes were
still on, I saw the wound in his neck. (18:20-18:28)

There is no way Jones and Goldstrich could have seen the throat wound if it had been beneath/behind the shirt slits. This raises another problem: the shirt slits were simply too low to explain the throat wound.